|
Artificer posted:Hahahahahah. Goondice from the other side of the table. Hahahahahah. I'm actually contemplating at least one three-sided fight as an option for the next 'round'.
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 13:50 |
|
|
I'll underbid anything as long as Natasha Kerensky is one of my command. Or my commander, I don't care much.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:08
|
|
|
PoptartsNinja posted:Just a quick update--I'm still waiting on orders from some of our players. You got my orders, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:09
|
|
|
PoptartsNinja posted:I'm actually contemplating at least one three-sided fight as an option for the next 'round'. Oh god yes let this happen. The wait from more goons being involved would be worth the hilarity and tears.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 01:54
|
|
|
Hob_Gadling posted:I'll underbid anything as long as Natasha Kerensky is one of my command. Or my commander, I don't care much. I bid all the FASCAM you can fit on a mapsheet. e: The gently caress is a "mapsheep?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 02:08
|
|
|
The tears being reserved to anyone outside Natashas PPCs, if only momentarily. But yes, that would be fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 02:08
|
|
|
PoptartsNinja posted:I'm actually contemplating at least one three-sided fight as an option for the next 'round'. I would be very interested in seeing this. Unfortunately, there is no way I'd be involved- I'm way too far down the list. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 02:10
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:I bid all the FASCAM you can fit on a mapsheet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 02:26
|
|
|
I bid a blakist level II 1 nuke 1 biological weapon 1 chemical weapon 1 fuel air explosive 1 electromagnetic pulse and 1 orbital strike. its fair right? RIGHT?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 03:09
|
|
|
AtomikKrab posted:1 nuke Totally fair (since all of those are worthless without a deployment device).
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 03:12
|
|
|
Well I bid a particularly coincidental series of lightning strikes before the battle was scheduled to start that ruins all enemy forces.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 03:49
|
|
|
Chronojam posted:Well I bid a particularly coincidental series of lightning strikes before the battle was scheduled to start that ruins all enemy forces. I don't think Thor, God of Thunder, is permitted to place a bid under Zellbriegen rules on account of being a supernatural divinity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 04:00
|
|
|
I thought everything's fair game, including games of chance such as a poker match.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 04:02
|
|
|
ShadowDragon8685 posted:I don't think Thor, God of Thunder, is permitted to place a bid under Zellbriegen rules on account of being a supernatural divinity. I disagree! The other day I bid an entire star of Thors and it was perfectly legal! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 07:10
|
|
|
Poker is a game of skill! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!Tempest_56 posted:I disagree! The other day I bid an entire star of Thors and it was perfectly legal!
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 10:50
|
|
|
ShadowDragon8685 posted:I don't think Thor, God of Thunder, is permitted to place a bid under Zellbriegen rules on account of being a supernatural divinity. It worked for us when we played North Korea in the women's world cup.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 11:36
|
|
|
Zaodai posted:It worked for us when we played North Korea in the women's world cup. It's more likely that North Korea, being ruled by an insane dictator and about as belligerently tiny-aggressive as you can get, are just lying because they lost.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 17:50
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:It's more likely that North Korea, being ruled by an insane dictator and about as belligerently tiny-aggressive as you can get, are just lying because they lost. That is it, that is the joke, yes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 17:57
|
|
|
The best part is that they stuck to the story. Later on 5 of their players tested positive for PEDs and they claimed it was from Musk Deer gland extract, which was a traditional Chinese remedy for lightning strikes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 00:03
|
|
|
Zaodai posted:The best part is that they stuck to the story. Later on 5 of their players tested positive for PEDs and they claimed it was from Musk Deer gland extract, which was a traditional Chinese remedy for lightning strikes.  I was born and raised in China and I had no idea we had a remedy for lightning strikes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 00:47
|
|
|
I put Musk Deer Gland Extract on every day, and I've never once been struck by lightning! All my friends use it too, and none of them have ever been struck by lightning either!
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 04:57
|
|
|
Hob_Gadling posted:I'll underbid anything as long as Natasha Kerensky is one of my command. Or my commander, I don't care much. Speaking of Natasha Kerensky, I did a slight modification of the official TRO of the Widowmaker in SSW, replacing the standard structure with an Endo-Composite one. This allows for an additional two tons of ammo for the Ultra AC/20. That makes for a total of 8 tons of ammo for it, along with the 2 ER PPCs, 2 LPLs, 3 ER MLs, and the ER SL. I also managed to fit in an ECM Suite. About the Ultra AC/20 ammunition, is that too much? I'm not sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 06:07
|
|
|
landcollector posted:About the Ultra AC/20 ammunition, is that too much? I'm not sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 06:19
|
|
|
Xmas Future posted:Kinda. In my experience, an average-sized game lasts around 15-20 rounds, and 8 tons of UAC/20 ammo is 40 rounds of single-fire, and 20 rounds of ultra-fire. landcollector fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jul 31, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 12:43
|
|
|
landcollector posted:About the Ultra AC/20 ammunition, is that too much? I'm not sure. 8 tons is too much. An extended company-sized match might last for as many as 30 turns, but under that circumstance you still won't have used 40 UAC20 rounds. The weapon is short-ranged enough that it frequently won't have a worthwhile shot to take, and the heat's too high to take low-probability pot shots. Plus you're talking about 8 crits worth of ammo feeding 8 crits worth of gun. In an extended engagement, the odds of one of those getting hit is REALLY high. Honestly, I'd even say 30 rounds of UAC20 is too much. 20 rounds, max.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 16:30
|
|
|
So after reading some good points here about CLPLs, I decided to make a mech with as many of them as possible. 70 tons Clan TW Movement: 4/6 Engine: 280 XL Heat Sinks: 20 [40] Internal: 107 (Endo Steel) Armor: 217/217 (Ferro-Fibrous) HD: 3 9 CT: 22 33 ( 11) RT: 15 23 ( 7) LT: 15 23 ( 7) RA: 11 22 LA: 11 22 RL: 15 30 LL: 15 30 Large Pulse Laser [LT] 10 Heat Large Pulse Laser [LT] 10 Heat Large Pulse Laser [RT] 10 Heat Large Pulse Laser [RT] 10 Heat Large Pulse Laser [CT] 10 Heat 2400 BV I couldn't put more on a heavier mech since this one has exactly 1 free critical slot, and this was the lightest I could make it as well and still fill up the armor completely. It can punch and push and kick and whatnot regardless of if it fired everything because all the heat sinks are in the arms and legs instead of weapons (you can do that, right?) I was thinking of also either finding an extra ton to drop somewhere to put on an ECM system for extra defense against missiles or getting rid of one of the arm actuators on the arm that has a free critical slot to add another double heat sink so that it can not build up heat while running and firing 4 pulse lasers. Any other significant defects to this mech? I'm going for maximum rear end in a top hat in a 1 on 1 situation here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 04:38
|
|
|
You can put all the heat sinks in limbs. Just keep in mind that the most likely part of a mech to get blown off is an arm; if that mech loses a bunch of heatsinks in its arm, then having the fifth LPL in its torso or wherever will be irrelevant, because it won't be able to afford the heat for firing it. Perhaps more importantly, though, it seems incongruous to me to design a clan mech to optimise hand-to-hand capability, what with clanners being averse to fisticuffs. Still; it's a vicious mech and I like it anyway. Good job.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 05:24
|
|
|
Needs a Tcomp.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 05:27
|
|
|
Swap out a CLPL and sinks for an extra -1 to hit? You can't call shots with Tcomps and Pulses anymore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 05:45
|
|
|
If you're gonna min-max with a Clan wonder-weapon just drive a Hellstar. Boring as gently caress to use though, but that's a lot of Clan machines.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 05:47
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:Boring as gently caress to use though, but that's a lot of Clan machines.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 06:01
|
|
|
Hellstars are a canon machine. And it's not all Clan machines, it's just ones built around the PPC, ERML, LRM20 or LPL.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 06:21
|
|
|
Holy crap, I just looked at the Hellstar's stats. That machine is crazy! Four ER-PPCs that can fire continuously? Why, yes, I'll take it, thank you! It's a munchkin's dream! I'm guessing that's just about the most powerful design technically possible, in game terms. Any of the resident Battletech wizards disagree? Its only drawback is that it doesn't have room for a targeting computer. It's also weird that I get excited and 'technical' over something like this. I don't even play Battletech; Never have. Thanks, PoptartsNinja!
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 12:44
|
|
|
Well, it does have a few drawbacks. For a Clan machine, it's hideous. It looks like something Stefan Amaris dug out of a hole. And, as mentioned before, it's boring. A lot of earlier designs were made with the express intent to not be optimized. Any random joe with a Techmanual can min-max a deathmachine especially when dipping into Clantech. But as it turns out the system was designed with taking things like heat, overlapping range envelopes, and maneuver into account. Without those extra considerations things get less interesting when you actually play the game. The guys who made the game actually figured that out pretty fast, so before Dark Age came around every 'Mech had some sort of quirk that made it suboptimal and forced the player to make informed decisions with what to do with the resources he had available. Alpha-striking for upwards to 60 damage every turn from across the map doesn't really tickle the tactical bone. Even just from playing Megamek, I could tell that the local BTech-heads aren't joking on the matter. Min-maxing isn't nearly as enjoyable as making do with a bad situation. From a munchkin's perspective it looks like the perfect ride but from a game design perspective it does the unthinkable: It brings attention to weaknesses in the game itself. Finally, it's doesn't have any anti-infantry or anti-aircraft weaponry. Ideally it'd be used in a combined arms situation where that wouldn't matter as much, but... We've seen what squads of battle armor can do to a 'Mech in close combat. It's horrible. Never discount something just because it's not a bipedal avatar of war. In the right hands and with the right terrain you'll find that armor, infantry, and aerospace can rip those robots to shreds. Considering the Hellstar's an all-energy sniper, I'm wagering a unit of hidden Inferno SRM infantry would really ruin that thing's day. EDIT: I guess you could say that instead of getting excited and technical over an element within a given game, I'm much more interested in the meat and machinery that goes into the design of game systems themselves. Which is probably why I started following along with the thread in the first place. Battletech's system isn't perfect but fully-optimized Clantech only serves to show off those imperfections. VVVVV EDIT Again: Well, you're right. It sure is a 'Mech killer. And on second thought I did get carried away again. I still maintain the Hellstar looks kinda dumpy! And not in a quirky way like the walking hotdog with laser arms. Runa fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Aug 1, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 13:13
|
|
|
Sorry if I came across as a min-maxxer; I was just marvelling over the technical specifications of this thing. I thought the Warhawk was optimized, but this is really the perfect mech-to-mech combat machine, and it doesn't even need ammunition. But when it comes down to it, I value flavour over efficiency in all of my games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 14:23
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:The guys who made the game actually figured that out pretty fast, so before Dark Age came around every 'Mech had some sort of quirk that made it suboptimal and forced the player to make informed decisions with what to do with the resources he had available. Well... the 3055 Clan second-line pulse-boats (Peregrine, Viper, Goshawk, Rifleman IIC) spring to mind as examples of 'Mechs without any weaknesses (or at least, with trivial weaknesses compared to other 'Mechs). There's something note quite right when your "crappy" 'Mechs are actually much better than many of your elite front-line ones. T.G. Xarbala posted:From a munchkin's perspective it looks like the perfect ride but from a game design perspective it does the unthinkable: It brings attention to weaknesses in the game itself. Balance is a big problem with Battletech. Balance-by-tonnage only works if designs are all at a certain level of optimization or sub-optimization, but that wasn't really even true in 3025 (would you prefer an Awesome or a Charger)? and certainly isn't true if you allow custom builds. Balance-by-Battle Value is a step in the right direction but it suffers from having zero in-universe plausibility. Maybe if the 'Mech construction rules had been overhauled very early on to make certain weapons and technology more balanced, the game would have benefited. But that would run afoul of the principle that rules changes should not "break" previous units.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 16:20
|
|
|
Seems like it would be easier to call Battle Value something like Logistical Value instead. Explain that mechs with weapons like PPC's and Gauss Rifles are rarer, more difficult to maintain, and cost more to replace than regular ones so they are deployed less, usually to counter an enemy advantage that couldn't be overcome by throwing cheaper mechs at it. You could do in-universe explanations of changes in Values too. Re-valuing a mech up could mean that one of the factories that produced the design was destroyed, or a cache of spare parts needed to maintain it has been exhausted. Re-valuing down could mean the designs to manufacture it were rediscovered, or someone invented a more efficient way of producing ammo/feul/etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 17:02
|
|
|
Gimmick Account posted:Holy crap, I just looked at the Hellstar's stats. That machine is crazy! Four ER-PPCs that can fire continuously? Why, yes, I'll take it, thank you! It's a munchkin's dream! IIRC, a friend of mine designed a 100-ton mech that could carry five gauss rifles. Sorry, we were very 13 at the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 17:20
|
|
|
Zeroisanumber posted:IIRC, a friend of mine designed a 100-ton mech that could carry five gauss rifles.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 18:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 13:50 |
|
|
Gay Abortions posted:Gausszilla lives That mech is a very slow glass cannon. Max speed around 32 kph and only ~8.5 tons of armor (if FF armor used, otherwise 7.5 tons of Standard armor). Here's a brief run down on a version I made some time ago: Chassis: Dire Wolf Speed: 3/5 Armor: 19.5 tons Standard Armor Weapons: 4 Gauss Rifles, 8 tons Gauss Rifle ammunition, 4 ER Medium Lasers
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2011 18:46
|
|