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Akuma posted:We're working on number four, but he seems surprisingly reluctant. what who? Yeah obsidz has had a decent number of goons at various points.
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Jul 31, 2011 06:21
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How good is networking your way into a game job? I personally know the producer for Stuntman: Ignition and the PS2 Spyhunter game and a graphic artist from Ion Storm through my school, they're still active in the industry, and could get good references from them. As well my stepsister is marrying a project programmer from Gearbox. Is there a way I could use this, as well as my portfolio, to leverage my way into a studio?
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Jul 31, 2011 20:37
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Young Freud posted:How good is networking your way into a game job? Idealized "perfect world" answer: Knowing someone can probably get your portfolio a closer look than normal, and if it's a toss-up between two apparently equally-skilled candidates for a position, then someone with a connection will realistically get the nod. Networking alone will not do anything without a good portfolio. Realistic answer: People and organizations are sometimes broken and hosed. On some occasions, who you know will go surprisingly far to compensate for a weaker portfolio. Caveat: Be careful, sometimes the people you know may (unknowingly to you) be douchebags or otherwise difficult to work with in some fashion. "Oh God,he's a friend of that rear end in a top hat?!" will probably not help you.  Edit: The next post makes an excellent point as well. aas Bandit fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 31, 2011 |
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Jul 31, 2011 21:35
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Or they might not actually like you. I had a guy try to name drop me that we were friends even though I never met him and he was acquainted with my husbands from school. He was only civil to the guy cause they were classmates, but he was a pretty big douchebag. They asked me if I knew the guy and I told him the truth. I only give recommendations to people I know well and know that they do good work. I'm not going to put my name on the line. We tried to help a friend get a job, but he ended up being an enormous prick with an inferiority complex. He didn't listen to any advice and didn't even get considered. He said some pretty jackassy things to us and we stopped talking to him. Some people know that we know him and will be like "whats up with your friend?" and we have to tell them we're not really friends with him anymore. He burned that bridge himself and can't find any work around here anymore because everyone knows him. Alterian fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jul 31, 2011 |
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Jul 31, 2011 21:39
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Hey everybody! I went to GDC earlier in the year (and attended the goon meet-ups) to pass on my resume to Riot games for an Associate Flash Developer position (read: UI programmer) and I have been talking to a software engineer there for about 5 months now, most of the early part of that time was me and him sending my "ActionScript Coding Challenge" back and forth to improve it and such. Then there was a point where he told me that I "was close" and suggested that I learn up on ActionScript 2.0 (they use Scaleform GFX in-game, and unless they went back to upgrade the whole UI to GFX 4.0 for some reason they would still be using AS2) and Flex/Flash Builder (the LoL launcher, store, lobbies, and everything else outside of gameplay is clearly done in Flex) so I took a month or 2 to do that. I even whipped-up some little programs to demonstrate that I understood these things now. I have since gotten back in contact with the guy, but have yet to get the conversation back to "What has to happen for me to get this job" or any sort of feedback about the mini-programs I sent a little while ago. I felt to post this here seeking any sort of advice on what I should do next, I typically have been sending him an E-mail every Tuesday, and I am thinking about pressing the issue a bit harder by cutting out the small-talk, but he also mentioned that "things are really crazy around these days, hopefully you’ll find out why soon" so IDK if that is something I should look out for. Unrelated to the rest of my post, but related to the Obsidian-talk going on in the thread right now; I had this guy as a teacher at my school and by effect, sort-of know Obsidian's Chris Avellone. I also know one of Obsidian's recruiters through a friend, but they don't seem to be looking into getting any Flash/UI programmers at the moment, at least not any entry-level ones.
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Jul 31, 2011 21:59
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Alterian posted:Or they might not actually like you. I had a guy try to name drop me that we were friends even though I never met him and he was acquainted with my husbands from school. He was only civil to the guy cause they were classmates, but he was a pretty big douchebag. They asked me if I knew the guy and I told him the truth. Honestly I've always though name dropping to be kind of douchey in general. Even if you're best friends with someone in the industry, if they think you would be a good hire, THEY will mention YOU. At the very least, ask the person first if you can mention them as a reference. Don't just go "Oh yeah, X knows me, they can vouch for me."
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Jul 31, 2011 22:20
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The Cheshire Cat posted:At the very least, ask the person first if you can mention them as a reference. Don't just go "Oh yeah, X knows me, they can vouch for me." Exactly. This, to me, is pretty much a common sense social given. Always ask first. Like the cat said, if the person really does know you and respect your work, see if they'll talk to someone on their own initiative, rather than you even needing to name-drop. It just feels cleaner all the way around. People who would just drop a name without bothering to communicate with the droppee beforehand...wtf...I just... ಠ_ಠ
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Jul 31, 2011 22:29
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On "name dropping": If you're interviewed for, say, a book (as opposed to a job), please feel free to mention the names of the people who mentored you, who you mentored, who was inspiring and loved, who was deeply hated, who played critical roles, etc. Stories that are intended to explore you and your challenges are far more interesting when there is a human context. You don't exist and work in a vacuum, so make sure that you help the interviewer give your story color.
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Jul 31, 2011 22:42
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NextTime000 posted:I felt to post this here seeking any sort of advice on what I should do next, I typically have been sending him an E-mail every Tuesday, and I am thinking about pressing the issue a bit harder by cutting out the small-talk, but he also mentioned that "things are really crazy around these days, hopefully you’ll find out why soon" so IDK if that is something I should look out for. A polite once a week is fine, and I would recommend referencing the work they're doing / acknowledging that you realize they're busy and that that is ok.
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Jul 31, 2011 23:25
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If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it.
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Aug 1, 2011 02:57
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tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it. The videogames industry is quite insular and hard to get in, especially when you have ten other guys behind you ready to take the job if you're not cut out for it (at entry level at least). Getting recommendations by people in the industry is a better way to get your resume on the top of the pile than just staying in your parents basement and nerding it out. Not saying that you must know someone to get in, but it helps, like everywhere else. My advice would be to work on the folio as much as you can, go to events and network. I'm not the first one to say so. As always : Portfolio > Networking > Geeking it out.
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Aug 1, 2011 03:10
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tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it. While I kind of see where you're coming from, for every junior level post in the industry, there are tons of skilled graduates that didn't get the job. Especially right now, when the closure of so many studios has put a lot of more experienced people onto the job market. (So glad I graduated and got into the industry when I did!)
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Aug 1, 2011 03:28
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tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it. I mean if that's true, then the entire marketing/high finance industry is full of people who don't deserv- Oh, I see what you're saying 
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Aug 1, 2011 03:29
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tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it. This is wrong. Shalinor posted:That means s/he is heads-down working on something unannounced, probably trying to make a milestone related to the initial PR push. Do not push too hard unless you want to burn that contact, they're already stressed as it is. This is the right advice. Until he responds that crunch is over, I would even switch to once every two weeks. Odddzy posted:The videogames industry is quite insular and hard to get in, especially when you have ten other guys behind you ready to take the job if you're not cut out for it (at entry level at least). Getting recommendations by people in the industry is a better way to get your resume on the top of the pile than just staying in your parents basement and nerding it out. Agreed, but networking is critical regardless of the industry. I graduated from a top ten MBA program where I took entire classes on how to network properly, both for job hunting, and for situations where networking is your job. (e.g. my job, business development.) To make things clear, you do not get a job because you "know" someone- that is nepotism. You get a job because you are the right candidate, and you inform people that you are the right candidate by getting to know them, and by letting them get to know you, which is the purpose of networking- to develop trust. Name dropping is a way to inform them that they have a contact which can act as a reference and who is familiar with you in a professional or personal context. When done in this manner, it's proper; if you simply name drop someone you met once at a party, that is incorrect, and offensive both to the person you are mentioning, and to the person you are trying to impress. edit- Amrosorma posted:I mean if that's true, then the entire marketing/high finance industry is full of people who don't deserv- My classmates are good people. Well, most of them are.
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Aug 1, 2011 03:33
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Maybe I should stop dropping names... :l
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Aug 1, 2011 03:50
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tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it. this is dumb. EVERY business on earth works through contacts and networking, not just the game industry. Also, your skill as a networker has a lot to say about your interpersonal skills in just about every other area of your work.
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Aug 1, 2011 04:42
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Networking is one of those things that helps some strains of nerd be less nerdy, too. I've seen it happen over the years, people starting out at networking events just sort of hanging out in the corner and mumbling about their portfolio to gradually learning the art of just making friendly small-talk in an environment that is so nerd-saturated they lose their concerns about seeming out of place. If you can learn to network well, in the process you might just develop something approaching social skills.
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Aug 1, 2011 05:49
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tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it. This is ridiculously wrong on so many levels.
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Aug 1, 2011 06:29
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tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it.  This, this is some kind of troll right? Or you're still in school, and haven't gotten even an internship, right? I refuse to believe someone could be this blinkered 
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Aug 1, 2011 07:37
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Hey guys, there's this guy that my coworker knows that he vouches for and can speak on behalf of his personality and work style easily and effectively fitting in here at my company, and he does decent work, but gently caress that, we're taking a chance on some random nobody because he's got 18 things on his portfolio instead of just 10 so he deserves it more. 
https://instagram.com/mutatedjellyfish/
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Aug 1, 2011 15:03
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I had an incredible love/hate relationship with referrals for the longest time, until I saw an old-timer art director do this: "Great! A referral! I trust you're vouching for him?" "Of course, he's a friend!" "So if he didn't work out, and we had to fire him, you'd be ok with us firing you too? Do you vouch for him that much?" "Uh...."It's a pretty good "he's a friend" filter.
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Aug 1, 2011 15:10
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Shalinor posted:That means s/he is heads-down working on something unannounced, probably trying to make a milestone related to the initial PR push. Do not push too hard unless you want to burn that contact, they're already stressed as it is. Carfax Report posted:This is the right advice. Until he responds that crunch is over, I would even switch to once every two weeks.  )
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Aug 1, 2011 15:20
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Every time I see this bit in the OP--OP posted:Q: I want to be a writer. Becoming a writer in game development is equal parts skill, desperation, and luck. Though the OP's summary of the state of writing positions at studios isn't 100% true -- it certainly used to be, but that's rapidly changing -- it may as well be with how few positions exist compared to other disciplines. But take heart, would-be game writers: these positions do exist in a variety of forms. I was an English and Creative Writing major in college. Midway through my junior year, I discovered (to my great displeasure) that I had zero interest in writing books, which I had somehow convinced myself for the better part of a decade was the one thing I ever wanted to do. Being around like-minded individuals writing really lovely novels with which they planned to change the world made short work of these ambitions. But I had loved games all my life, and with the notion that there existed some opportunities to write for games -- the localization writer/editor spots at Nintendo in nearby Redmond, for example -- I resolved to focus my studies towards new media narrative design and development. Nobody in my program took me seriously. My professors and peers didn't see games as a viable storytelling medium, focusing instead on the "why do you want to rape women? I mean you can rape women in GTA, right? So why are you raping women?!" aspect. I got all depressed and stopped talking about it, doing lots of independent study. I got into game blogging by starting my own, and mailing various editors asking for work, pointing to the stuff I had written. This became my job after graduation, though I wasn't really making a living until I landed my second gig, which sprung out of a chance encounter and conversation with an editor at a press event. I loved writing features, but I was poo poo at the news side of games journalism, and was on a fast track to burning out and getting axed -- I adored my colleagues but I hated being bad at what was arguably my main responsibility on staff. Propelled by anxiety, I harassed some friends for work, and was sent word of a 12-month contract web content writing gig at a studio a buddy was working at. He passed my name to the hiring manager; I interviewed two days later, was offered the job that day, and moved a little under three weeks after. Again: Skill, desperation, luck. I survived the recession and the waves of layoffs that followed, and clawed my way from web content writer to producer by doing everything that was put in front of me, going above and beyond my job description, and basically begging to take work off of other people's plates. I made myself visible and was as active as I could be to develop my skills beyond where they were when I arrived. Most importantly, I spent every day working to develop my relationships with my colleagues -- those I was working with on projects, and those that I had never worked with before. I later moved away from production and focused on writing in earnest, getting my first triple-A writing credit just two years in -- but forget about that, let's focus on that relationship bit. This cannot be overstated: the industry is small. Most companies you'll work at are small. You need people to like working with you. And this-- tyrelhill posted:If you can't get the job by yourself, without someone else giving you a boost, you don't deserve it. There are only a handful of writing gigs in this industry. To get a shot at them, you need established members of the development community to want you to have them. This is true for any game job, but especially so for game writing, in which you'll face utterly insane competition in every application process. Everyone thinks they can write. And among the people who apply for game writing gigs -- well, most of 'em can. Well enough, anyway. But what you need to set yourself apart from the guys with lengthier resumes, and I mean this, are diplomatic skills. You're going to have hard conversations with important people. You must advocate for story and, occasionally, tell important people that their ideas are not the best ideas. Creative disputes are a bitch, because there's only so much data you can present as evidence -- in the end, many of these decisions are simple aesthetic choices. You'll get shut down, and hard, from time to time. And it's your job to say "Okay, if that's our direction, how can I make this sing?" The nuts and bolts of game writing is maybe 30% of my job. The remaining 70% is narrative design. And if you can nail that -- and if you're lucky and desperate enough -- when you do get a foot in the door, you'll be able to make the most of that opportunity. Go to GDC (GDC Online, especially). Bring business cards and keep samples at the ready (but not freely available on a site -- it's waaaay easier to steal from a writer's portfolio than a watermarked artist's gallery). Meet people and make them like you. Be enthusiastic, be knowledgeable, and if you can, be technical. Learn Excel (that's a big one) inside and out, and if you're feeling really fancy, learn to code or use Kismet or something. Do everything, and once you've finished everything, ask for more everything. Be ravenous and insatiable and work your rear end to crumbling dust. Make friends and be lucky. typhus fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 16:50
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Hey typhus, I really want to go to GDC Austin this year, but the ticket cost is astronomical. Do you know if volunteers get enough time off to walk the job booths? Just curious, as that seems the only way I'd be able to afford getting in.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:15
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Typhus, I know the writers section of the OP is a bit exaggerated but you know as well as I do that the number of full time writing or narrative design jobs are so few, they may as well be non-existant for most aspiring writers. Also your "how I became a writer" story is eerily similar to mine -- just different companies.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:25
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M4rk posted:Hey typhus, I really want to go to GDC Austin this year, but the ticket cost is astronomical. Do you know if volunteers get enough time off to walk the job booths? Just curious, as that seems the only way I'd be able to afford getting in. It's bonkers expensive, yeah. The expo floor is open all day most days of the conference -- volunteers are asked to work 20 hours minimum over the week, so you could more than likely find plenty of time to get to the booths and chat people up. The GDC Online volunteer page has more details. If you go, hit the Ginger Man after the conference closes -- that's where the writers congregate, and there are as many opportunities to network there (if not more) than during the show proper. Diplomaticus posted:Typhus, I know the writers section of the OP is a bit exaggerated but you know as well as I do that the number of full time writing or narrative design jobs are so few, they may as well be non-existant for most aspiring writers. Christ, tell me about it. I think the point I was driving at is that, for most aspiring writers, the best bet is a lateral shift into a writing gig rather than a polite knock on the door. This doesn't necessarily mean QA, but it does mean working yourself to death and making contacts and all the other poo poo I rambled on about for awhile. I do think that there are many more writing opportunities now than there were even just a few years ago, however, and I wager the market'll keep expanding as time goes on. typhus fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 17:25
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M4rk posted:Hey typhus, I really want to go to GDC Austin this year, but the ticket cost is astronomical. Do you know if volunteers get enough time off to walk the job booths? Just curious, as that seems the only way I'd be able to afford getting in. This isn't gospel as I've only been to GDCs in SF (and not recently), but they had volunteers mostly just working panels. This meant that 1) they would try to assign people to the panels they were interested in, and 2) the time before and after panels was available to see the floor. You might also look for a floor-only pass, which is generally a lot cheaper than the full shebang.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:28
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I haven't been to GDC in a couple of years and never as crew, but the gist of it was you'd work one day and have the rest comped for free as one of the classic passes or whatever the ones that was like $600 was. Pretty sure they have info about this on their site somewhere. Regular GDC also has an expo-only pass that is like $75 or so that just gets you access to the floor where you'll get to hit the job expo and see exciting tech demos from people who give no gently caress because you're obviously a student e: http://www.gdconline.com/attend/volunteer.html http://www.gdconline.com/attend/passes.html#expo http://www.gdconline.com/attend/passes.html#gcs (game career seminar - gets you this seminar and only 1 day of expo) no offense but this is stuff you can find on their site really easily. As a community guy you should be pretty good at this whole internet thing, especially since as a high level community manager (ie, not a glorified forum mod) you'll have to organize a lot of poo poo and help plan events, etc. Sigma-X fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 17:44
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Doesn't help you for GDC-online but for GDC SF you can do the IGDA scholarship -- I won the year I applied (though there wasn't really competition in business & legal). I don't know that there is a huge amount of competition if you apply as a writer. The real competition for the scholarships is in art + programming.
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Aug 1, 2011 18:13
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M4rk posted:Hey typhus, I really want to go to GDC Austin this year, but the ticket cost is astronomical. Do you know if volunteers get enough time off to walk the job booths? Just curious, as that seems the only way I'd be able to afford getting in. You can also off-the-record go in on a single pass with friends and split the costs. They never check names against badges and you can share the pass around during the day for people who want to see different talks.
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Aug 1, 2011 18:15
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Sigma-X posted:e:  Tangentially, I've helped plan and execute a whole internship/job fair at my university. About 50+ companies and a couple hundred students showed up, and it was only for folks with Communications majors (PR, Advertising, Marketing, etc.). It was pretty well done, took up UNF's entire top floor expo hall. Live music, free food, university president showed up and gave a prepared speech (helped write it), and I went around doing audio/video work (booth setup, collecting b-roll, etc.) the entire time. The best part was we did it all on a budget of $0. Everything we used, including the food and tables and drapes and chairs and everything else was donated or sponsored. That was my crash course in event planning, and it paid off. typhus posted:If you go, hit the Ginger Man after the conference closes -- that's where the writers congregate, and there are as many opportunities to network there (if not more) than during the show proper. 
M4rk fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 18:51
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M4rk posted:Assuming the Ginger Man is a bar...what's the best way to start a conversation with fellow videogame devs in such a setting? Comment on their nerdy-chic shirt? Buy me a drink.
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Aug 1, 2011 20:38
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Considering Montreal is a pretty big hub in the games industry, what industry events happen that might be worth it to network and meet recruiters? The SIJM?
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Aug 1, 2011 20:41
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Odddzy posted:Considering Montreal is a pretty big hub in the games industry, what industry events happen that might be worth it to network and meet recruiters? The SIJM? MIGS is the main one, yeah. And pretty much the only regular one, for that matter. That's where I met the recruiter that eventually led to my interview and job offer. (I might've gotten the interview and offer without MIGS anyway, but who knows?)
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Aug 1, 2011 20:47
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Wow, I wish I knew someone who knew me well enough to recommend me at the risk of their job. Clearly I'm behind on my networking skill. I realize that "no response" is the most common occurrence but at what point should I call and ask on the status of my resume?
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Aug 1, 2011 21:06
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I always send emails a week or two after submitting a resume just to make sure they received it ok and if they have any questions. Has anyone had any success using linkedin? I actually got my current job because the HR person did a search on linkedin. Is this a common occurrence?
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Aug 1, 2011 21:16
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M4rk posted:Assuming the Ginger Man is a bar...what's the best way to start a conversation with fellow videogame devs in such a setting? Comment on their nerdy-chic shirt? And maybe buy me a drink, but ask first, since I don't do beer. You kind of have an advantage in games, though. I'm probably wandering around the crowd just as bewildered as to how to start conversations as you are - I mostly look for an interesting conversation with a crowd, listen, and interject if I have something entertaining/whatever to add. Most of us suck at glad handing, so just bulling in with a pleasant demeanor and can-do attitude is often enough to set you well above everyone else.
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Aug 1, 2011 22:06
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Imajus posted:I always send emails a week or two after submitting a resume just to make sure they received it ok and if they have any questions. I get a steady trickle of recruiters contacting me on linked in. It's definitely worth maintaining a profile on there once you have some experience. As far as I can tell the actual connections don't matter that much, but it's a good place to effectively have your resume posted. Make sure you've got the buzz words in your profile that recruiters will be searching for, and that you've joined the right groups that recruiters will be trolling. The connections might be useful when you get laid off to just notify everybody you've ever worked with that you're looking for a job, but I haven't tried that. I'm not sure how valuable the recommendations are. It's pretty obvious that everybody recommends each other, so unless a rec is from the person's supervisor or incredibly well written I don't pay them much heed. And even then with a grain of salt. I'd actually like to update my profile with more detail but I don't want to freak out my co-workers, heh.
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Aug 1, 2011 22:23
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Should I think about going to GDC Online as someone that's not in the industry? I would figure the people you would want to network with would be no where near any of the "official" career building areas just to avoid the deluge of hopefuls surrounding them but just sitting through a bunch of technical talks sounds fun in itself and I'm awfully close to Austin anyways.
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Aug 1, 2011 22:25
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I find "So how's the show treatin' ya?" to be a great GDC/E3/etc. opener, because it's not something you'd know offhand (As opposed to the weather) and you know they've got an opinion on it (As opposed to asking about sports teams or other things they might have zero interest in) with the added bonus that people always like to talk about themselves. And no matter what their answer is, there's always an obvious next step- Sympathy if they say it's going poorly, specifics if it's going well, and camaraderie if it's a more neutral "Just surviving, you?" Furthermore, all avenues segue easily into the next one, "Who're you here with?" at which point you've broken the ice enough to actually start talking business. I've done it at bars, sandwich lines, booths, buses, everywhere, and it really works. And what Shalinor said is really true- we're all still pretty nerdy at these things, and I get the sense at some gatherings that everyone's only faking being sociable and they'd rather be having the conversations we're having while playing Bomberman or something.
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Aug 2, 2011 00:04
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