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Azure_Horizon posted:I don't think he writes these books to please everyone. In fact, that's the worst thing you could do as a writer. I'm not saying he aims to please everyone, or even anyone, nor should he do so. And skipping chapters is kind of weird anyway, might as well stop reading it altogether. But even then, if you literally cannot finish a book because of percieved quality, then why does that not count as an opinion? Why put in the extra time investment on something you find unenjoyable? And if a movie was bad enough to stop halfway, then you can absolutely still make a quality judgement. Despite whatever the second half is like, it fails as a movie (on an individual level, of course) if you can't make it that far. You should be able to discuss why you disliked something enough not to finish it, we have an entire thread about "books you couldn't finish".
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Aug 1, 2011 06:30
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Sir_Vondruke_IV posted:GRRM may have some problems, but no other author could make me cheer for a fat cannibal feeding other people their relatives. There was a contest to get a free signed copy of the book. George lost some kind of a bet on the giants? so he put the winner in the book as a guy who gets pulled apart by giants. But the contest was to guess how that blogger died and one of the multiple choice questions was cooked in a pie and I said alright well it can't be giants because they're on that side of the wall and the knights are on this side and now I feel dumb for guessing pie. but I was looking for people fed in pies before that guy was even introduced so I was flipping back looking for the names of the freys that went missing and pretty much saw that coming but not for any good reason like being smart enough to read through the lines
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Aug 1, 2011 07:16
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:There is also the possibility that he'll just regular-survive the stabbings. I don't think anyone's mentioned that, ironically. This. Unless I'm missing something, nothing suggested that Jon actually died. It just said he got stabbed like four times. And since Melissandre has predicted the poo poo out of this, maybe--just maybe--she'll get there in time to stop it. Or the giant. Or Ghost. Or Benjen. Or Tormun. He's surrounded by people, only a handful of which are disloyal. Personally I think Bran will warg into Wun-Wun and save Jon. Then Wun-Wun will wander off to find his giant twin sister and they will gently caress while eating delicious eel pies. Also, does anyone know whether GRRM has a sister? If so, she has likely experienced the emotion "CREEPED OUT" more than anyone else on this planet.
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Aug 1, 2011 07:28
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Doibhilin posted:Also, does anyone know whether GRRM has a sister? If so, she has likely experienced the emotion "CREEPED OUT" more than anyone else on this planet. 2 sisters...
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Aug 1, 2011 07:44
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Doibhilin posted:hen Wun-Wun will wander off to find his giant twin sister and they will gently caress while eating delicious eel pies. I thought there were no more female giants.
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Aug 1, 2011 09:02
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The Septon with Aegon is Ned's dead sister. 
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Aug 1, 2011 10:30
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OperaMouse posted:I thought there were no more female giants. You're thinking of Ents.
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Aug 1, 2011 13:53
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Haraksha posted:The Septon with Aegon is Ned's dead sister. Not unless Ned is in the habit of lying to himself in his thoughts.
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Aug 1, 2011 13:56
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I've been taking the book really slowly because I didn't want to finish it in like four days like I did with all the previous ones, and I finally finished it at 2.30 this morning and while I was getting more and more wary of what the big OH poo poo twist would be as I got closer and closer to the end I thought it would be that Jon gets greyscale or something  (I've been avoiding the internet for weeks so what actually happened was literally a throw-the-book-at-the-opposite-wall thing. And then go scrabbling after it because THERE'S MORE PAGES AAaghhagh) I guess I'm either a completely blithely naive reader or just too optimistic because I never see any of the major twists coming  Which I guess makes it all the more enjoyable/heartwrenching/OH HELL YES/OH gently caress NO because I'm not expecting what happens, and the things I think I've figured out all turn out to be completely retarded.Anyway, I shed a tear when I read Jon's chapter, but I'm pretty optimistic that he either wargs into Ghost (and hooks up with Bran somehow?) or Melisandre saves him or the wildlings kick rear end for a bit and stop him dying or something. I mean there is no way he dies, right? Poor Jon, he knew nothing. (Actually I bet GRRM will just kill him just to gently caress with us oh god)  Quentyn though  And Theon! I adored his chapters I think the most, it just seemed to get worse and worse for him and I felt so sorry for the poor sod.
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Aug 1, 2011 15:03
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I wonder if Stannis (presuming he's still alive) is going to separate Theon's head from his shoulders or not. He really should.
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Aug 1, 2011 15:11
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Neurosis posted:I wonder if Stannis (presuming he's still alive) is going to separate Theon's head from his shoulders or not. He really should. I kind of hope Theon gets some redemption. The bit at the end of the last Asha chapter (I think?) where he says his name is Theon is pretty good. Speaking of names, the chapter naming thing annoyed me. I can understand why he'd call an Arya/Theon chapter something like 'The Ugly Little Girl', as those chapters have a lot to do with the identities of Arya/Theon, but why bother with Asha/Victarion/Barristan? Just give me a drat name.
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Aug 1, 2011 15:45
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Jakabite posted:I kind of hope Theon gets some redemption. The bit at the end of the last Asha chapter (I think?) where he says his name is Theon is pretty good. Speaking of names, the chapter naming thing annoyed me. I can understand why he'd call an Arya/Theon chapter something like 'The Ugly Little Girl', as those chapters have a lot to do with the identities of Arya/Theon, but why bother with Asha/Victarion/Barristan? Just give me a drat name. Theon killed children because unrelated children would make him look a little silly. There is no redemption.
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Aug 1, 2011 16:02
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From the TV thread: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hbo-exec-game-thrones-will-216668 quote:"executives stressed their commitment to making Game of Thrones authentic to George R.R. Martin's books and to keeping the show going as long as Martin keeps writing -- which is a considerable commitment given Martin's prolific nature." Let the jokes commence. Also: I see Theon as GRRM's answer to Planescape: Torment. "What can change the nature of a man?" Months/Years of horrific torture and brainwashing!
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Aug 1, 2011 16:09
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This is the first time I've ever been in TBB regarding ASOIAF (I guess the reputation of the Bad Thread kept me away), so sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm curious about the Gods in the books. Is there a consensus regarding the religions in the books - do some Gods exist and others don't, or are they all false? And in case some/any/all of the worhipped deities exist, just what they are? Omniscient, omnipotent beings or just competing entities battling it out for worship and dominion? I haven't re-read any of the books since the first time I got through them so my memory is really hazy but isn't R'hllor the only supposed God whose existence (or influence on the physical world) has been displayed in the books? I can't recall any instance of the Seven or the Old Gods or any other deities answering any prayers or intervening in the world at all. Does this imply that R'hllor is the only God or will we see more holy miracles by Westerosi gods in time?
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Aug 1, 2011 16:20
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If Jon is Dead-dead, Dead with a capital D, as in, not coming back, the whole plot of the book would be hosed up and GRRM would then invent the "Northern Knot" as an excuse to keep procrastinating for another ten years.
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Aug 1, 2011 16:21
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Of all the things Dany was warned of this book (Pale mare, perfumed seneschal etc) is there any explanation for 'Mummers dragon' other than that Aemon Targaryen is an imposter? I believed he was at first, but it would make little sense for Jon Connington and especially Varys to be mistaken about something this important. Also I read about Lord Manderley putting the freys into the pies that he fed the guests at the wedding, what in the book is it that gave that away? Mr.Brinks posted:If Jon is Dead-dead, Dead with a capital D, as in, not coming back, the whole plot of the book would be hosed up and GRRM would then invent the "Northern Knot" as an excuse to keep procrastinating for another ten years. My guesses: One of the first chapters of TWOW will be titled 'Ghosts' or 'The man in the wolf' and will be about Jon perma-warging into ghost the moment he died. The preview chapter in this book was a big hint towards that. The chapter ends with him feeling like someone is pulling him away from Ghost. In Melissandres first chapter she realises that what it meant when she looked into the fire to see Azor Azhai and saw only Jon Snow and proceeds to resurrect him straight away. Possibly cliffhanger ending is that Ghost died in the resurrection process. Also technically Jon has now served the nights watch until death and is free to do and marry whoever he wants (=daenerys). kanonvandekempen fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 16:24
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Beeswax posted:This is the first time I've ever been in TBB regarding ASOIAF (I guess the reputation of the Bad Thread kept me away), so sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm curious about the Gods in the books. The way I see it is that the Old Gods and R'hllor aren't actually goods but the labels people put on certain types of magic. However the Seven seems to be created by people (or at least the gods are completely indifferent or have no sway whatsoever in the universe). For some reason I can't recall if there was any evidence for the Drowned God's power or not.
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Aug 1, 2011 16:29
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kanonvandekempen posted:Also I read about Lord Manderley putting the freys into the pies that he fed the guests at the wedding, what in the book is it that gave that away?
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Aug 1, 2011 16:33
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The Mutato posted:The way I see it is that the Old Gods and R'hllor aren't actually goods but the labels people put on certain types of magic. However the Seven seems to be created by people (or at least the gods are completely indifferent or have no sway whatsoever in the universe). I agree on the 'Gods are a substitute for magic' idea. I also think the seven is GRRM making a parody of christianity. The drowned god saved Aeron (supposedly he was under water for a loooong time) from drowning, also Aeron CPR is 100% effective as opposed to other priests with higher fail rates. And don't forget Patchface (please cast him, please cast him, please cast him)
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Aug 1, 2011 16:33
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Beeswax posted:This is the first time I've ever been in TBB regarding ASOIAF (I guess the reputation of the Bad Thread kept me away), so sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm curious about the Gods in the books. I don't think any of the gods are real and would cheapen the setting and story and the answer is simply magic is a natural part of this world and ebbs and flows into existence. Men have always attributed that which they don't understand to gods / supernatural beings. The Old Gods are just shown to be the Weirwood trees and the wargs / children of the forest. The Seven were probably invented by man (Catholicism) and spread like the virus it is to control and influence people. R'hllor and the Great Other might be your classic "good v. evil" personification.
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Aug 1, 2011 16:37
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kanonvandekempen posted:I agree on the 'Gods are a substitute for magic' idea. I also think the seven is GRRM making a parody of christianity. Gilbert Gottfried is your man. I know, oh, oh, oh.
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Aug 1, 2011 16:46
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Neurosis posted:I wonder if Stannis (presuming he's still alive) is going to separate Theon's head from his shoulders or not. He really should. Theon makes a pretty good candidate for providing king's blood to the fires so whether he lives or dies I don't think he'll be beheaded.
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Aug 1, 2011 16:57
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Neurosis posted:Theon killed children because unrelated children would make him look a little silly. There is no redemption. Have you been paying any attention to the series? The fact that he killed some random kids probably won't even merit a second thought from the other lords. Nobody gives any fucks about the common folk. What he'd get hit for is the same thing as Asha, participating in rebellion against the throne.
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Aug 1, 2011 16:58
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kanonvandekempen posted:Of all the things Dany was warned of this book (Pale mare, perfumed seneschal etc) is there any explanation for 'Mummers dragon' other than that Aemon Targaryen is an imposter? I believed he was at first, but it would make little sense for Jon Connington and especially Varys to be mistaken about something this important. Keep in mind that Varys is a former mummer, so Aegon, regardless of whether he's real or fake, is the mummer's dragon. I'm guessing that Jon will turn out to be the stone dragon via resurrection, unless the foreshadowing about Shireen and Dragonstone somehow isn't a red herring despite what Mel's POV chapter reveals. In fact, given that Mel lets Mance go, I wonder if she really believes in royal blood being powerful. But in that case, why deceive Stannis about it? It's never explicitly revealed, but the biggest clue is that he's laughing and dancing around when he's serving the pies, and then, later, calls for a song about the Rat Cook, who butchered his children and fed them to his guests.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:17
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Thoguh posted:Have you been paying any attention to the series? The fact that he killed some random kids probably won't even merit a second thought from the other lords. Nobody gives any fucks about the common folk. What he'd get hit for is the same thing as Asha, participating in rebellion against the throne. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to my post, because being 'beyond redemption' had the context of the readers' perceptions. Yes, my initial post was about Stannis, but I doubt that suffering a lot would carry any weight with him anyway. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 17:20
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what I don't get is when the iron bank showed up to asha they said "hey umber took winterfell while you guys were snowed in" didn't he? if stannis fought at winterfell and died why doesn't the bastard have his wife and reek back? mance's spearwives are dead and he's being flayed, I Guess. I can't see a way out of that, but I don't understand how Bolton could have killed stannis but not have his wife/reek. (they ran away on the iron bank's horses? to die in a blizzard?)
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Aug 1, 2011 17:35
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Krinkle posted:what I don't get is when the iron bank showed up to asha they said "hey umber took winterfell while you guys were snowed in" didn't he? He says he found Mors Umber "under the walls of Winterfell." I thought this meant that Mors was still besieging the castle and waiting for the king to start the storm, but I guess it could also mean that he took the castle.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:42
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Krinkle posted:what I don't get is when the iron bank showed up to asha they said "hey umber took winterfell while you guys were snowed in" didn't he? if stannis fought at winterfell and died why doesn't the bastard have his wife and reek back? The note is from Mance.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:49
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Caufman posted:He says he found Mors Umber "under the walls of Winterfell." I thought this meant that Mors was still besieging the castle and waiting for the king to start the storm, but I guess it could also mean that he took the castle. Mors Umber's men found Theon and Arya/Jeyne after they escaped from Winterfell. Presumably they were besieging the castle, since Bolton was very clearly still in control when Theon left.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:53
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my mother read the same chapter and took it to mean it was literally just mors umber alone beating a drum making them think that they're getting ready for a fight and afraid of where it's coming from, keeping them up all night, etc.
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Aug 1, 2011 18:07
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NinjaDebugger posted:The note is from Mance. What? E: Alright, I just reread the chapter and realized I had completely glossed over the Umber part. So the Umbers are assaulting Winterfell out of nowhere? Why/how would have Mance sent that letter? Caufman posted:He says he found Mors Umber "under the walls of Winterfell." I thought this meant that Mors was still besieging the castle and waiting for the king to start the storm, but I guess it could also mean that he took the castle. The actual passage is, "The Braavosi smiled. "We've brought a gift for you." He beckoned ot the men behind him. "We had expected to find the king at Winterfell. This same blizzard has engulfed the castle, alas. Beneath its walls we found Mors Umber with a troop of raw green boys, waiting for the king's coming. He gave us this [Jeyne and Theon]." Mr.Brinks fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 18:22
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No Pants posted:After he gets drunk, Lord Manderly wishes the bard would sing a song about the Rat Cook. The Rat Cook was a member of the Watch who served a king his son in a pie. NinjaDebugger posted:The note is from Mance.
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Aug 1, 2011 18:25
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I'm sorry if this has been proposed or asked all ready but would there be any chance of some R'hllor vs The Old Gods kind of conflict? I just finished ADWD and there's one passage involving Bran and the greenseer where the seer basically says Bran shouldn't fear the darkness as well as "it is your cloak/shield/strength." I mean, doesn't that kind of contradict the whole point of R'hllor which is to fight back the darkness? Whenever Melisandre or other followers of R'hllor refer to darkness and night they make it seem pretty evil. It's pure speculation but religions in this world aren't exactly friendly towards eachother (i.e. all the ironborn sailors freaking out about the R'hllor priest on their boat) But...its probably some random coincidence considering druids = earth, priests/sorcerers = the sun
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Aug 1, 2011 19:34
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I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point. However, I would say that The Old Gods aren't actually real, but rather are the wargs inhabiting the weirwood trees. Rather, I would say that it is a conflict between R'hllor and the Great Other, who we know nothing about. This would nicely bring into the light the idea of The Song of Ice and Fire, in the conflict between R'hllor, fire, and the Other, ice. It seems to me that the entire series is pointing towards that sort of confrontation with Dragons and Others and all that fun stuff. Also, you don't have to use spoiler tags in this thread.
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Aug 1, 2011 19:40
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I would sort of disappointed in the event there was a Great Other/Archdemon/Sauron type 'leading' the Others that is actually introduced. I'm sure we will get at least some answers to better understand the 'ultimate conflict', but whatever those answers turn out to be will not matter nearly as much as the personal conflicts between the human characters knowing GRRM.
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Aug 1, 2011 19:48
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thehoodie posted:I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point. However, I would say that The Old Gods aren't actually real, but rather are the wargs inhabiting the weirwood trees. Rather, I would say that it is a conflict between R'hllor and the Great Other, who we know nothing about. This would nicely bring into the light the idea of The Song of Ice and Fire, in the conflict between R'hllor, fire, and the Other, ice. It seems to me that the entire series is pointing towards that sort of confrontation with Dragons and Others and all that fun stuff.
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Aug 1, 2011 19:54
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thehoodie posted:I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point. However, I would say that The Old Gods aren't actually real, but rather are the wargs inhabiting the weirwood trees. Rather, I would say that it is a conflict between R'hllor and the Great Other, who we know nothing about. This would nicely bring into the light the idea of The Song of Ice and Fire, in the conflict between R'hllor, fire, and the Other, ice. It seems to me that the entire series is pointing towards that sort of confrontation with Dragons and Others and all that fun stuff. I still feel like there are no 'gods.' There's just magic, some of which has had the symbolic face of a god attached to it, and the two big 'god' players - Fire and Ice - aren't really waging some age-old battle but are just looking out for their own interests. ie: The reason Melisandre, et al. worship fire and it stands to reason they hate anything dark/cold, and so they assign 'evil' characteristics to it. Then you have whatever the hell that is up in the North, and it's clearly cold, so they assign bad characteristics to light and fire. Etc...
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Aug 1, 2011 20:03
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Sir_Vondruke_IV posted:GRRM may have some problems, but no other author could make me cheer for a fat cannibal feeding other people their relatives. Trey Parker and Matt Stone did it ten years ago. Shakespeare did it 400 years ago. Ovid did it 2000 years ago, and Hesiod did it 800 years before that. Feeding people their relatives is one of the oldest revenge tricks there is.
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Aug 1, 2011 20:33
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Alright everybody. Get ready for this. ASoIaF Planet has seasons of unpredictable length. It doesn't seem to have a cold south pole as far as I am aware, because things just seem to get hotter the further south the characters go. It has a north pole which is dominated by the northern part of the Westeros continent which is always frozen. My unsupported hypothesis is that Asshai-by-the-Shadow is the south pole of ASoIaF planet. My next unsupported hypothesis is that the Shadow is the hottest part of the world. My subsequent even crazier suggestion is that the Shadow is literally a shadow cast on the surface of the planet by a heavenly body. You say, none of this makes and sense physically. I say, if this were a typical solar system you'd be right. But what if the sun is in fact orbiting another much more massive body, and the orbit of ASoIaF Planet circumscribes the mass centroid of the sun plus this other body, which will be located somewhere between the sun and that body? That would cause whichever end of the planet was most sun-wards to be consistently hot and the other end of the planet to be consistently cold, and perturbations to the procession of its revolution caused by OR related to passing COMETS or other high-mass stellar bodies would cause the length of effective seasons to shift. If the other massive body in this case is a supermassive black hole which the planet's star is orbiting, then time and space itself are somewhat plastic. Before someone asks, it's perfectly possible to orbit a black hole. Furthermore, the only thing this theory actually has going for it is a star/black hole versus ice/fire synergy. Boring alternative, the planet orbits a normal star but is somewhat tidally locked and has a sharply tilted axis and a crowded planetary neighborhood which alters its axial tilt to cause the seasonal shifts. Or, the seasons are "magical" or some poo poo like that.
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Aug 1, 2011 20:49
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Calef posted:Alright everybody. Get ready for this. I like this idea, but I'm pretty sure GRRM has said in an interview "yeah its magic guys."
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Aug 1, 2011 20:51
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