Deus Ex: Human Revolution - So people will be left behind, it's Evolution.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Deus Ex: Human Revolution - So people will be left behind, it's Evolution.

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Jack Trades: Nov 30, 2010

Strudel Man posted:

Inventory system is more elegant than in Civ 4.

yeah but I thought that Industry Tycoon has better business management than Deus Ex :colbert:

# ? Aug 2, 2011 11:43

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 20:53

Communist Bear: Oct 7, 2008

Anyone know if there's gonna be preloading on Steam?

# ? Aug 2, 2011 11:44

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

Tecman posted:

Just a correction (and why I've been hesitant to post that piece of concept art myself)...

Whoops, didn't know. Been really lucky at keeping away from story points while still keeping up on news. I'll go edit the post.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 12:34

Tecman: Sep 11, 2003; Loading the Universe...
Please Wait.; Pillbug

Yay.

Also, this is now my favorite thread/post on the Eidos Forums: Some bizarre character descisions ( http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=118999 )

tmpwhore posted:

I've been perusing the gameplay footage of the leaked demo that came out a few weeks ago and after seeing it I'm definitely on board for buying this puppy as soon as it comes out. That being said I think there was a few character naming and dialog decisions that are a little bizarre.

In one movie I saw showing the conversation "wheel" or whatever it is there is a guy who's obviously a mexican guy, who is addressing adam jensen but his name is "zeke sanders"? What's that? Some Jewish British guy who grew up in the barrio?

What's worse is he occasionally calls Adam a "cholo"*. Maybe something got lost in the translation as the guys from Montreal are french Canadian but Adam Jensen(swedish name) is whiter that I am and we have a long winter in Canada and he doesn't look like he has a drop of native blood in him. Thats like having a black guy in a kilt and someone starts calling him "a crazy swede" or "drat vikings, never have any respect". What?????

I'm all for having straight rough talking in games. Like sorry people say "f#ck" and thats fine and even have racial epitaphs and what not it adds a gritty edge to the game but for gods sake get the insults right. If anything Adam should call "zeke" a cholo or whatever.

And why the hell is some esse from the barrio called "Zeke Sanders"? Couldn't they pick something that reflects his heritage better? It doesn't have to be silly like "Pepe Rodriguez", but at least something Spanish sounding. Like "Patricio Mendez" or something. What will be next? When we hit shanghai there's a chinese triad guy called Wolfgang Mohammed McKraken who starts calling everyone "chink" and asks Adam to stop talking in that "ching chong" language? Adam then retorts hes sick of speaking to him as he's a "drunk Injin" WTF?????

It seems like the names were picked at the beginning of the development process then someone in marketing said "Oh wait it would be cool to have a mexican gang type character" then the programmer guys were like "Well we have 5 weeks of voice recording on a character named "Zeke Sanders" it's too late to change the name, but the marketing people rammed it down their throats and said "Just do it!". I realize this footage was from a demo but I really hope they change the naming or whatever for the rest of the game because it just looks retarded.

I've been to Montreal a whole bunch of times and I realize its a pretty whitebread town but can't you rent some DVD's or something? Maybe actually speak to a guy from Mexico? Call the embassy? Something.

Is it some sort of reverse racism political correctness thing? I'm assuming this game will have a Mature rating so I think we are all mature enough to realize it's a game.

Also it's hard to see in the crummy videos but is that a p enis drawn in the hexegon on Adams head? I would try to make it an interface plug or something otherwise he should be called "d ick head" by that crazy Jewish British Mexican!

* cholo - which is a derogatory name for a mestizo peasant is a uniquely Mexican slur. I have a Peruvian and a Venezuelan friend and they had no idea what it meant. They have different slurs altogether.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 12:39

RichieWolk: Jun 4, 2004; FUCK UNIONS

UNIONS R4 DRUNKS

FUCK YOU

In the future, people stopped giving a gently caress about acceptable racism, so you have mexicans named zeke and asians named wolfgang. Makes sense to me! The future is awesome in the deus ex world.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 14:51

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

It's a major staple of dystopian sci-fi literature/comics/serials anyway that the world sucks so much rear end that people actually stopped giving a poo poo about race hence Deckard's wife Iran in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Miguel O'Hara in Spider-Man 2099, etc. Guess that post is what happens when your immersion doesn't let you see or hear anything else in the outside world for your entire life.

Cholo hasn't been used seriously since like the early seventies, it's just been a general "gangster sort of dude" term forever. Even when Assault on Precinct 13 came out (a movie ABOUT an interracial gang alliance IN the seventies) "cholo" is used as a word for a blood oath the gang leaders swear rather than a person. By the time Deus Ex happens I can't imagine it having any more historical context than "hanzer."

# ? Aug 2, 2011 15:08

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

I actually know a Chinese guy named Wolfgang sooo...

# ? Aug 2, 2011 15:57

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

Cream_Filling posted:

I actually know a Chinese guy named Wolfgang sooo...

That too, I mean I'm sorry to waste more time talking about that tmpwhore post, but I don't understand how you can have such an outdated view of how poo poo works in the world, like how do you even have internet access and not notice that people are named whatever their parents want or whatever they want once they can legally do that. I live in a large city, of which there are many on the planet, and even when I lived in the suburbs for a while I don't think I ever looked at someone and thought "man I figured his name would be more like ____ or ____" cause of how they look. I'm sure most sane people would have a similar indifference to name vs. physical looks.

Even if someone was this out of touch it's like, the first or second paragraph in every dystopian story ever written that like "after the collapse of the nations blah blah blah borders ceased to exist corporations run everything people only care about money etc." There's so much going on with this game gameplay-wise I just can't believe these "unusual design decisions" even registered on someone's senses.

Possibly the most baffling thing about that post though is that he considers Montreal "a pretty whitebread town," uh...

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Aug 2, 2011

# ? Aug 2, 2011 16:33

Svaha: Oct 4, 2005

poptart_fairy posted:

Red Dead doesn't happen to be insanely huge over in Germany, does it?

I wouldn't be surprised. Germans love that cowboy stuff.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:01

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

I mean I think he's saying that he wants a more conspicuous Hispanic identity. But that sort of distracts from the themes of the game. It's in a way a case of "reality is unrealistic" in that ethnicity in media is often expected by people to be clear and demonstrative and minorities are expected to serve as ambassadors instead of just being allowed to be regular characters, whereas in real life such issues are often complicated (particularly in fairly diverse countries such as America).

In real life, dude could easily be half-Mexican, an emigre to Mexico, or simply someone who has taken "Zeke Sanders" as a pseudonym or a nom de guerre. His parents might have anglicized his surname from Sanchez or something to try and avoid discrimination (see: Charlie Sheen vs. his real name Carlos Estevez). For all we know, it was chosen as some symbolic reference to a hero or villain of some future revolutionary movement, or it was simply the name on his last stolen passport (dude is an international terrorist, after all).

But people, particularly people with limited exposure to minority cultures outside of media, may come to expect a more simplified view of ethnic identity based on what they have seen on TV and other media - one that is clear enough to be seen on the rather murky depths of the small screen.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:09

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Svaha posted:

I wouldn't be surprised. Germans love that cowboy stuff.

Yup (at least historically)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_May
even the East Germans did
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostern

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:11

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

According to the DX wiki the dude's real name is supposed to be Ezekiel Sandoval anyway, so it's sort of a moot point. This game has no trouble being racist on its own without needing to blow up something like this fictional character's fictional name.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:20

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

What is a good video link for this line:

WELL IF IT AIN'T THE CAP'N HISSELF

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:40

Doctor Hospital: Jul 16, 2011; what

WELL SHEEEEEEEEIT. IF IT AIN' DA CAP'N HISSELF

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:51

Svaha: Oct 4, 2005

Is it really fair to call the entire game racist because of that one character? I mean, if every African American character was like that in the game, then it would definitely be a valid point, but that's absolutely not the case.

I recognize that The character is definitely a cliche and a stereotype, but it don't think it was done out of any sort of deliberate malice towards black people. It seems more like a honest effort to create a wide variety of distinct characters that ran a bit amok in that case.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:56

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Svaha posted:

Is it really fair to call the entire game racist because of that one character? I mean, if every African American character was like that in the game, then it would definitely be a valid point, but that's absolutely not the case.

I recognize that The character is definitely a cliche and a stereotype, but it don't think it was done out of any sort of deliberate malice towards black people. It seems more like a honest effort to create a wide variety of distinct characters that ran a bit amok in that case.

I felt the same thing when playing the leak after seeing people freaking out about her in this thread. The game's got plenty of black characters who are just regular, professional people. Or gangers, or passersby. Having one colorful bum in there doesn't make the thing racist - hell, I wouldn't even say it 'ran amok.'

# ? Aug 2, 2011 17:59

Sam.: Jan 1, 2009; "I thought we had something, Shepard. Something real."

Deus Ex had stuff like "Mistah JC Denton, in da fresh". They're just trying to make HR as much like DX1 as possible.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:01

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

I actually thought pretty much all the "ethnic" characters, Zeke included, were pretty badly stereotyped, especially the way they were voice acted. Maybe this is because when english isn't your first language, people who sound like they stepped right out of 40's Hollywood or a Jeff Dunham act get a pass because you don't pick up on stuff like that easily.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:01

Svaha: Oct 4, 2005

Al! posted:

I actually thought pretty much all the "ethnic" characters, Zeke included, were pretty badly stereotyped, especially the way they were voice acted. Maybe this is because when english isn't your first language, people who sound like they stepped right out of 40's Hollywood or a Jeff Dunham act get a pass because you don't pick up on stuff like that easily.

Maybe you just aren't noticing the ethnic characters that aren't huge stereotypes? They are definitely there.

I'm pretty sure they used American voice actors, so it's a bit odd that some huge racist thing would slip past them without comment.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:11

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Al! posted:

I actually thought pretty much all the "ethnic" characters, Zeke included, were pretty badly stereotyped, especially the way they were voice acted. Maybe this is because when english isn't your first language, people who sound like they stepped right out of 40's Hollywood or a Jeff Dunham act get a pass because you don't pick up on stuff like that easily.

Zeke definitely had fairly distinctive speech patterns...but I didn't really notice that from anyone but him and the bum lady. Did you mean anyone else?

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:14

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Svaha posted:

Is it really fair to call the entire game racist because of that one character?

No man or god will ever stop goons from calling anything and anybody racist, sexist, or foo_ist :toot:

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:23

Vanderdeath: Oct 1, 2005; I will confess,
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth.

I found the black lady to be extremely racist then I remembered Hong Kong and the Rooks in Deus Ex. That being said, the black lady is basically straight out of a minstrel act.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:33

poptart_fairy: Apr 8, 2009; by R. Guyovich

Please can we not turn this into a second Minority Issues thread. :saddowns:

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:36

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

I don't think there's any real malice or anything, but that particular voice is amusingly ridiculous and minstrel-like.

In part, I would say it's more a function of the often very spotty voice acting. My wild guess is that they have a limited number of voice actors and some really bad takes end up getting used.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:39

Inspector_666: Oct 7, 2003; _{benny with the good hair}

The worst part about that particular character is that she's so useful, so you need to stand there and listen to the absurdity for a while.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:46

Deep Space Hitler: Apr 21, 2011

e: nope

Deep Space Hitler fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Aug 2, 2011

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:47

Pharmaskittle: Dec 17, 2007; arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag

You literally give her malt liquor to unlock new information and dialogue from her.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:48

Morocco Mole: Jul 20, 2002

Pharmaskittle posted:

You literally give her malt liquor to unlock new information and dialogue from her.

Now I really want to play this game :hehe:

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:50

Inspector_666: Oct 7, 2003; _{benny with the good hair}

Pharmaskittle posted:

You literally give her malt liquor to unlock new information and dialogue from her.

Well I could see that working on a hobo of any stripe.

Hell, it would work on me.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:53

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

Strudel Man posted:

Zeke definitely had fairly distinctive speech patterns...but I didn't really notice that from anyone but him and the bum lady. Did you mean anyone else?

I don't do no tricks with no augs, yo.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:55

Pharmaskittle: Dec 17, 2007; arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag

Inspector_71 posted:

Well I could see that working on a hobo of any stripe.

Hell, it would work on me.

Alright while it would totally work on me too, pretend it was fried chicken and watermelon. While that would still work on me, it doesn't make it any less super-offensive.

That one homeless lady and Zeke "ese" Sanders definitely aren't as bad racism-wise as all of Deus Ex, but they're just in the first 1/3 or whatever of the game. Who knows, we might get a yellow peril villain in Heng Sha.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:57

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Al! posted:

I don't do no tricks with no augs, yo.

Really? Maybe it reflects poorly on me, but that sounded fairly natural to my ears, coming from a street prostitute.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:58

Deep Space Hitler: Apr 21, 2011

Pharmaskittle posted:

Alright while it would totally work on me too, pretend it was fried chicken and watermelon. While that would still work on me, it doesn't make it any less super-offensive.

That one homeless lady and Zeke "ese" Sanders definitely aren't as bad racism-wise as all of Deus Ex, but they're just in the first 1/3 or whatever of the game. Who knows, we might get a yellow peril villain in Heng Sha.

It's not all that unlikely considering about 50% of the game's color is yellow

# ? Aug 2, 2011 18:59

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Pharmaskittle posted:

Alright while it would totally work on me too, pretend it was fried chicken and watermelon. While that would still work on me, it doesn't make it any less super-offensive.

Yeah, but it's bribing a hobo with beer. If something is entirely plausible, how reasonable is it to take offense?

(Also, and while I don't think this is actually significant, I don't remember it being 'malt liquor' specifically, just some named brand of alcohol.)

# ? Aug 2, 2011 19:00

Tecman: Sep 11, 2003; Loading the Universe...
Please Wait.; Pillbug

Sorry to butt into the conversation, but... Jesus loving Christ, Eidos Montreal, you can stop with the trailers now. :stare:

Deus Ex Human Revolution Exclusive Adam's Quest Trailer :siren:

# ? Aug 2, 2011 19:02

Pharmaskittle: Dec 17, 2007; arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag

Strudel Man posted:

Yeah, but it's bribing a hobo with beer. If something is entirely plausible, how reasonable is it to take offense?

When the character already sounds like she's about to start shucking and jiving.

edit:

quote:

(Also, and while I don't think this is actually significant, I don't remember it being 'malt liquor' specifically, just some named brand of alcohol.)

if you think something called "Red Devil" is going to be anything but malt liquor

# ? Aug 2, 2011 19:02

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

Inspector_71 posted:

Well I could see that working on a hobo of any stripe.

Hell, it would work on me.

The hobos in general are a pretty weird bunch. There's one hobo dude that does a worryingly good falsetto impression of the fancy lady newscaster. I'm really struggling to see much behind these racism allegations beyond random nitpicking.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 19:02

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Al! posted:

I don't do no tricks with no augs, yo.

See, that one didn't sound all that bad to me.

It's not an allegation of racism. It's pointing out that one particular character has a seriously Amos n Andy level voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE4-xQMTST4

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Aug 2, 2011

# ? Aug 2, 2011 19:03

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

Strudel Man posted:

Really? Maybe it reflects poorly on me, but that sounded fairly natural to my ears, coming from a street prostitute.

Maybe a street prostitute in a 90's Cartoon special produced by Ted Turner warning children about the dangers of drugs. Besides the black homeless lady and Zeke who are really only the ones that are offensive, it feels like most of the dark skinned characters speak in a psuedo-"street" patios that seems like it is poorly written at best and ill-advised at worst.

# ? Aug 2, 2011 19:04

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 20:53

Neosuki: Jul 14, 2004

Tecman posted:

Sorry to butt into the conversation, but... Jesus loving Christ, Eidos Montreal, you can stop with the trailers now.

Deus Ex Human Revolution Exclusive Adam's Quest Trailer

WHAT THE HELL?
It's like the old, old console game trailers in the 80s.
It needed the Epic Trailers voice guy.
In a world...
One man...
Against all odds...

# ? Aug 2, 2011 19:10

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