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Hibame posted:I don't know what to do with my girlfriends dog. It is some kind of mix between a jack russell, fox terrier, and most likely something else. He will not stop barking. How old is he? It sounds like he's not getting nearly enough exercise. My JRT, if she doesn't get the appropriate amount of exercise each day, will bark a lot more at odd sounds (people talking outside or next door, etc). How much exercise is he getting right now? Lola, today, saw a girl wearing one of those fluffy rabbit ear headband things, and freaked. She didn't bark (not at a person all day  ) but she had serious hackles and was cringing away from the girl. But when I came home, dug out some and put them on, she just gave me the 'something's not right here' look and tried to eat them.I'm now sat in my living room, three hours later, wearing fluffy bunny ears so she gets used to them. I'm planning to wear them until bed tonight and then again tomorrow, and shower her with food when I put them on tomorrow. EDIT: I've just heard today that, August 26-29, in the afternoons/evenings/nights (2pm to half 12am) my town's Rhythm and Blues Festival will be on. It's not a Massive Massive Thing, but there'll still be probably around two to three hundred people milling around the area, which is like five minutes from me. I'm not sure whether to take Lola there (obviously staying a good distance anyway) or not. It'd be a great time to work on LAT and BAT, as a lot of people would be stood around talking and listening to music, and there aren't usually many dogs that go there since the stage is mostly indoors, with people listening outdoors too. But it could be a great thing or a bad thing. Lola's been doing well with people lately, barely barking at all, but I don't want to take her there and have her have an absolute, giant meltdown and set us right back. Any ideas?  Obviously I have nearly another month to work on her reactivity more, but this is an annual event so!
Fraction fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Jul 31, 2011 22:42
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Another update on my stepsister's black lab. Absence does not in fact make the heart grow fonder in this case. I didn't see him for a few days because he didn't need to be watched. Now when he sees me he will lunge across the room to bite me. Been bitten three times, each worse than the last. I had to bandage up the last one because I was actually bleeding. Not allowing the dog to come over anymore. My stepsister seemed to get that this is not a good thing for the dog to be doing because he's hostile with other strangers and actually bit a teenager (not hard enough to break the skin thankfully) but then they never actually go to that trainer they were talking about. All my suggestions (from this thread, thanks) fell on deaf ears. This last incident they were acting pretty defensive like it was my fault for walking into my own kitchen and having him leap across the room and bite me.  This will be the last update since I won't be dealing with him anymore.
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Aug 2, 2011 12:55
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Fraction posted:I've just heard today that, August 26-29, in the afternoons/evenings/nights (2pm to half 12am) my town's Rhythm and Blues Festival will be on. It's not a Massive Massive Thing, but there'll still be probably around two to three hundred people milling around the area, which is like five minutes from me. I'm not sure I'd take a reactive dog to such an event. If I did, I'd make sure to stay around the outskirts, if anything. I completely understand the desire to really try and push Lola's threshold but I think that ultimately you're asking for trouble. There are too many uncontrollable factors and the work you're doing with Lola is still in its early stages. Maybe plan for next year. In reactivity cases I think it's better to be over prepared than under, you know? Death Himself posted:This will be the last update since I won't be dealing with him anymore. Christ, it sounds like they've got a real problem on their hands. Sorry you were bit.
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Aug 2, 2011 14:15
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It's your stepsister's problem and not yours, but she needs to understand that if she likes her dog even slightly, she needs to do something about the aggression now
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Aug 2, 2011 14:16
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Filboid Studge posted:It's your stepsister's problem and not yours, but she needs to understand that if she likes her dog even slightly, she needs to do something about the aggression now I think that she and her boyfriend don't really understand the extent of the problem. From their point of view the dog is happy to be around themselves, my father, my stepmother, my two stepbrothers and their aunt and cousins who live nearby. Around my dog any really any other dogs he's happy and playful. On walks they keep him away from people. When strangers come near he is kept on a short leash because he usually barks. All the times he attacked me was at my house and they were not around. So most of the time they are only seeing him being a happy dog. Maybe they don't think it's a big enough deal that they have to spend the time/energy doing something about it. It sucks. If it were my dog this would be easier since I could actually do something. I am stuck making suggestions and trying not to get bitten anymore instead.
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Aug 2, 2011 14:31
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Death Himself posted:This will be the last update since I won't be dealing with him anymore. That's really a shame, it sounds like you were more than reasonable - there are just some terrible owners out there, and sometimes they're family. I have a couple of relatives about that bad myself. quote:I think that she and her boyfriend don't really understand the extent of the problem. Unless you said it in some obscure dialect of Hindi it's kind of hard to misunderstand "Your dog bites."
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Aug 2, 2011 20:05
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So, today was Mouse's first puppy training class and... she barked a loooot at the other pups  . She was extremely friendly with people but nervous of all the other puppies and barked/growled whenever she got upset. This is something I'd kind of anticipated, since when she meets other dogs out walking or in the pet store she is often trepidacious, putting her ears down and wiggling and then backing away and barking. Since I foresaw her having issues along these lines, I've actually booked her into two separate puppy classes with two different firms, so she has 12 weeks of puppy classes scheduled. We're also going to a puppy party at the vets tomorrow.The trainer did not seem overly concerned, and I'm hoping that after the 12 weeks are through Mouse will be much more at ease around unfamiliar puppies/dogs. At the back of my mind, though, I'm wondering whether booking a one-on-one session with a behaviourist to focus on building her confidence around stooge dogs might be appropriate? Or would that be overkill given that she's only 12 weeks old? She did great on the regular training exercises, and I was able to hold her attention and have her sit quietly most of the time, but I am a little concerned about the fear she's obviously experiencing around other dogs.
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Aug 2, 2011 20:35
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I'd give her time before you get really worried! Has your dog played one-on-one with any other dogs? We took our pup to his first puppy party yesterday (another 2 weeks before class starts, so we just played for half an hour and then observed). He was really nervous around all the other dogs and stayed towards the walls and the trainer said that's totally normal for a first time. When all the other puppies went to class, Orbit and one other puppy stayed behind in the play area while we were observing the class, and they PLAYED AND PLAYED and really relaxed when it was just the two of them and not a whole herd of more play-experienced dogs.
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Aug 2, 2011 21:00
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a life less posted:I'm not sure I'd take a reactive dog to such an event. If I did, I'd make sure to stay around the outskirts, if anything. I completely understand the desire to really try and push Lola's threshold but I think that ultimately you're asking for trouble. There are too many uncontrollable factors and the work you're doing with Lola is still in its early stages. Maybe plan for next year. In reactivity cases I think it's better to be over prepared than under, you know? Yeah, I think I was just pushing at the whole when opportunity strikes thing. With a situation like that, there's just too many things that can go wrong, and at this stage that could really set Lola back. Especially as there'll probably be a whole load of drunk/drinking people around and she freaks out enough when I'm drunk so  She's doing really well lately, with people and to a lesser extent dogs. Yesterday we even walked past a cat, on a loop about 3m away from it, and she stared but didn't lunge or bark.  notsoape posted:So, today was Mouse's first puppy training class and... she barked a loooot at the other pups I thought bedlingtons and whippets are supposed to be pretty calm and even with people and dogs? Maybe she was just too anxious by all the new dogs and new situations. Lola barked a lot in her first puppy classes, but that was excitement. She only got reactive later.  Rather than booking with a behaviourist, I'd ask with the trainers if they have any small, couple-of-puppy classes (where the dogs can interact more under more control), or ask fellow pup handlers for phone numbers or email addresses so you can arrange puppy meetups. And bear in mind, if she's able to sit and be calm she can't be too anxious about the other dogs there.
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Aug 2, 2011 22:40
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Fraction posted:I thought bedlingtons and whippets are supposed to be pretty calm and even with people and dogs? Maybe she was just too anxious by all the new dogs and new situations. Lola barked a lot in her first puppy classes, but that was excitement. She only got reactive later.  Working strain bedlingtons are quite different in temperament to the show strain. The show strains are pretty diluted with poodle and bichons (that's not  , it's well documented) and the working strains were outbred to glen of imaals and fell terriers to improve genetic diversity and functionality. The workers have a bit of a rep for dog aggression. As for whippets, it's true that as mature dogs they're generally pretty chill but they can also be sensitive, clingy and shivery/nervy in new situations. (Many lurcher folks avoid whippets and crosses for that reason, others swear by them!)The course I'm on at the moment is just a little low-key 4 week class; the 2 month one with the local big name behaviourist starts on the 21st of August. I might see how she does over the next 3 classes, then ask the behaviourist for advice when their classes start if she's still getting upset around other dogs. This class has 8 puppies max, the 2 month course has 6 max, and neither of them do classes with fewer pups - you'd need to arrange a one on one consultation. aliceamadee: we have another dog and they get on beautifully - they play together, feed beside one another and sleep curled up in the same basket.
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Aug 2, 2011 23:10
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notsoape posted:So, today was Mouse's first puppy training class and... she barked a loooot at the other pups ... I think you're worrying a BIT prematurely right now. Give it another few weeks then reassess. I think it's great to be proactive about fear issues, so kudos to you. But you don't really know what it is you're dealing with quite yet. Odds are good that the newness of the situation freaked her out more than anything. First thing to remember is that you don't have to have an OMGEVERYBODYLOVEME dog. It's definitely too early to resign yourself to that, but a lot of dogs are perfectly happy not running up to every dog they meet to say hi. Remember what you NEED from your dog (not reacting, staying focused on you) vs what you WANT from her (being bosom buddies with other puppies ). You can do to help Mouse get more confident are keeping an ultra special puppy class treat (or better yet an assortment) that you break out for the classes. Start working on basic counter conditioning exercises with a really valuable reinforcer. I would also make sure Mouse is well rested. I know Cohen got really snippy and grouchy when she was overtired. Is there an area where you can pull back from the fray a bit? Maybe a divider? Having some enforced space between Mouse and the other pups may be helpful. Any good puppy class worth its salt will have lots of controlled down-time to help calm the room down a bit. You might find these resources useful: Scaredy Dog by Ali Brown FearfulDogs.com For the most part I think it's way too early to be concerned, but more knowledge can't hurt.
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Aug 2, 2011 23:35
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Yeah, overthinking is kind of my middle name when it comes to my dogs . I'll be really interested to see how she gets on at the puppy party tomorrow, our vets are awesome so I'm hoping they'll be doing structured introductions rather than just letting all the pups offlead and hoping for the best. The instructor showed me some TTouch techniques - I don't know if anyone has any opinions on them? IDK if there's any clinical data to suggest the massage techniques work better than regular stroking, or whether it's just snake-oil. The upshot of attending two separate sets of classes is that Mouse will (hopefully!) pass the Canine Good Citizen Puppy Foundation award two times over
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Aug 2, 2011 23:58
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notsoape posted:The instructor showed me some TTouch techniques - I don't know if anyone has any opinions on them? IDK if there's any clinical data to suggest the massage techniques work better than regular stroking, or whether it's just snake-oil. I don't have any personal experience with TTouch, but it's held in pretty high regard by dog training professionals. The site looks way too airy-fairy for my liking, but I think there's at least some substance behind it.
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Aug 3, 2011 00:11
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So, we went to the puppy party this evening and I have to say I was a little disappointed. The vet nurses were awesome, but the behaviourist they brought in was from a bark-buster type chain and was pretty old school. She had obviously never heard of counter-conditioning and scolded me for 'rewarding Mouse for barking' (I was actually rewarding her for sitting and paying attention to me rather than the other puppies at that point) and instead recommended I basically lift her chest up and shake her a little every time she barks at other dogs  . There was no structured offlead play and no emphasis on introducing the puppies to one another.That said, I think by the end of the hour Mouse was doing a little better. There were only two other puppies - a lab and a shih tzu, and by the end Mouse was almost friendly with the lab. She did bark and growl intermittently throughout the session though and I'm still a little concerned. She also snapped at the lab a couple of times when he bounced right up to her :/. We'll see how she does next Tuesday at the class.
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Aug 3, 2011 22:51
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notsoape posted:So, we went to the puppy party this evening and I have to say I was a little disappointed. The vet nurses were awesome, but the behaviourist they brought in was from a bark-buster type chain and was pretty old school. She had obviously never heard of counter-conditioning and scolded me for 'rewarding Mouse for barking' ... Was she definitely a behaviourist? With accreditation, degrees, etc? Any of the behaviourists I've met are firmly entrenched in more positive methods and in no way would suggest shaking/punishing a pup for nervous barking. The ones I've spoken to are heavily interested in learning theory and are well versed in modern training methodologies. Maybe I've just lucked out. Though what I think might be more likely is that this woman has given herself the title of behaviourist without any of the education that goes along with it.
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Aug 4, 2011 00:19
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My puppy (just turned six months old) has been cleared for urinary problems but she is still peeing when she gets excited. The vet said she will probably grow out of it, but I would have figured that she would have done so by now. She usually gets pretty riled up whenever my husband or I come home, but usually only has excited accidents whenever a stranger or friend approaches her. She gets super excited and begins to wag her whole body and she begins to dribble (it's never a stream or anything). I've tried to take her to relieve herself before I know she is to meet anyone new, but she pretty much always has a little left in her bladder. I don't know what else to do except demand people to ignore her, but most people see "PUPPY" and lean down to pet her before I could say anything, anyways. Any help would be much, much appreciated.
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Aug 4, 2011 01:22
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Bailey keeps jumping up on guests and strangers as well as me; I've been working on the "ignore with back turned with all four feet on ground, then pet" method but I haven't noticed any improvement, not even an increase in the behavior that indicates an extinction burst. He doesn't seem to give a poo poo if I turn around; he will stop, but it never seems to discourage the behavior. Its an annoying behavior and its intimidating to strangers as well; Bailey doesn't mean to hurt people when he does it, he just wants to get pets. This, and his inconsistent attention to me while on lead, are driving me up a wall. I guess this is what you get with a breed described as stubborn.
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Aug 4, 2011 02:18
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notsoape posted:The instructor showed me some TTouch techniques - I don't know if anyone has any opinions on them? IDK if there's any clinical data to suggest the massage techniques work better than regular stroking, or whether it's just snake-oil. Well, from the site's own description: quote:TTouch - the Tellington TTouch - is a method based on circular movements of the fingers and hands all over the body. The intent of the TTouch is to activate the function of the cells and awaken cellular intelligence - a little like "turning on the electric lights of the body." Gonna have to go with option B there (snake oil).
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Aug 4, 2011 04:44
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NarwhalParty posted:My puppy (just turned six months old) has been cleared for urinary problems but she is still peeing when she gets excited. The vet said she will probably grow out of it, but I would have figured that she would have done so by now. She usually gets pretty riled up whenever my husband or I come home, but usually only has excited accidents whenever a stranger or friend approaches her. She gets super excited and begins to wag her whole body and she begins to dribble (it's never a stream or anything). I've tried to take her to relieve herself before I know she is to meet anyone new, but she pretty much always has a little left in her bladder. I don't know what else to do except demand people to ignore her, but most people see "PUPPY" and lean down to pet her before I could say anything, anyways. Any help would be much, much appreciated. What's the breed? Based upon what you've posted, it sounds like a pretty clear case of over-excited bladder. The recommendation for this is to start making all of these greetings a less exciting affair. I'd start with you and your husband and work on graduating to new people. Working on greeting problems really sucks because it's very, very hard to get people to do what you need them to. Steel yourself, you will need to learn to be "rude" for the sake of your dog. I've worked on greeting problems, but not this one specifically. If it were me, this is what I would try first: When you or your husband come home, do not offer any attention until the dog is calm. Do not walk quickly, do not make eye contact, do not touch -- stare at the ceiling(this body language is important in my experience). Even if she jumps, just ignore it and try not to offer any reaction. It helps if you've taught a default greeting behavior like sit. When she calms down and isn't wigging out, you should treat and praise heavily, but pay special attention to the tone of your voice. You want to give her the belly rubs she craves and give her some treats (nothing too high value because it amps up the experience), and keep your tone smooth, strong and soft. Keep your pitch low. I'm sure this varies from dog to dog, but my wife and I have noticed that ours is extremely responsive to tone of voice. I suspect a lot of that is because we've worked on that for the past year, so now when we use our "calm voice" she calms down almost immediately. Once you can get calm greets with yourselves (be patient -- this can take a long time) you can try with strangers, but you need to pick someone very carefully who can help you structure the experience. And then when you detail exactly what you want them to do, and they crouch down and freakout like you expressly asked them not to, it is okay to be cross with them. For random encounters outside and at PetSmart, etc, you just need to be an rear end in a top hat. Lay down the rules, if people don't listen to them, just body block them and be a jerk. It's hard, but you'll learn. wtftastic: How long have you been working on this? This can take months or more, and age is certainly a factor. I'd also start looking for signs that Bailey is about to jump or break a sit on a greeting, and as soon as he does, you assume your snotty posture very quickly.
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Aug 4, 2011 14:14
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NarwhalParty posted:My puppy (just turned six months old) has been cleared for urinary problems but she is still peeing when she gets excited. The vet said she will probably grow out of it, but I would have figured that she would have done so by now. She usually gets pretty riled up whenever my husband or I come home, but usually only has excited accidents whenever a stranger or friend approaches her. She gets super excited and begins to wag her whole body and she begins to dribble (it's never a stream or anything). I've tried to take her to relieve herself before I know she is to meet anyone new, but she pretty much always has a little left in her bladder. I don't know what else to do except demand people to ignore her, but most people see "PUPPY" and lean down to pet her before I could say anything, anyways. Any help would be much, much appreciated. 6 months is still pretty young. My dog had a few special neighbours she would, uhm, pee for until she was well over a year. It's pretty common. As Mr Furious said, it's pretty much just a matter of management until she gets out of the habit of letting loose each time she's excited. Keep greetings really low key. Ignoring the pup is probably ideal at this point. If you do have people greeting her... Avoid eye contact. Don't lean over the pup. Crouch down. Exude calm. Don't pet over top of the head. No noises or sudden movements. wtftastic posted:Bailey keeps jumping up on guests and strangers as well as me; I've been working on the "ignore with back turned with all four feet on ground, then pet" method but I haven't noticed any improvement, not even an increase in the behavior that indicates an extinction burst. He doesn't seem to give a poo poo if I turn around; he will stop, but it never seems to discourage the behavior. It's tough to train a dog not to jump on other people since other people tend to greet incorrectly and subconsciously encourage the jumping behaviour. Cohen will still jump up on people who loom over her excitedly. However the problem is gradually going away after months of working on it. First you need to deal with the jumping up on you. This all boils down to reinforcement. Bailey jumps because it is being reinforced in some way. Try to identify where it's coming from. I've found that it's important not to let the dog get his paws on you. Take a quick step away so his paws hit air and he comes back down onto the ground, and that exact moment, click and treat. I've not had much luck turning my back on dogs since they're still up and putting their paws on me. Ninja-like reflexes come in handy here. Also try to get in the command to sit before he jumps up, then go crazy with praise and treats. It takes a lot of self control for a dog to sit still when excited, so it's a lot to ask for and you'll need to work up to it gradually. (Cohen will give me little half-jumps then sit hurriedly, little tail-nub/butt wagging like mad. )I'm not a fan of this, but for the worst jumpers you can keep a leash on them and either attach it to something solid or step on it if working with another person. If the dog jumps they self correct, you or the other person steps away to reset the exercise, then you try again. Work by degrees if the dog is really intent on jumping. As in, cue a sit from a few feet away then mark, praise, and toss a treat. Gradually close the distance as the dog catches on to the exercise. It takes a long history of reinforcement for what you want (the sit) before the jumping goes away. It takes longer if the jumping is being periodically reinforced. The general rule for reinforcement is that if something is periodically reinforced on a lengthy time line the behaviour will become very difficult to extinguish. So if Bailey finds that every once in a while jumping is rewarding, whelp, it'll be harder to train out. Consistency, as always, is key. Re: inconsistent attention, that's pretty normal. Normally that's a sign of introducing distractions too soon. Ask for attention in accordance to his current ability. Ie, don't ask him to pay attention to you when he's staring at a squirrel because that's not likely a battle you're going to win, and you'll become white noise. If you have specific examples of where you're having trouble we might be able to give you more specific advice.
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Aug 4, 2011 14:41
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Paging Fraction to the thread. I seem to recall a picture of Lola wearing a muzzle around some chickens? I can't find it now... I wanted to ask how your experience with muzzle training a small dog went and what kind of treats you use. I think it's harder with small dogs because the muzzle is so much smaller. I've been neglecting Psyche's muzzle training because 1) she hates things on her nose (our fault, I make her wear her headcollar for safety reasons even though she doesn't like it), 2) we tried it in class once with little success (my husband thinks it makes her a LOT more anxious) and 3) we were always keeping her away from people/dogs so it didn't matter much. She is doing so much better with people now though that when I bring a new person to her, they just see a nice little dog and ignore my cautions to take it slow. They go right up to her and she does fine for a while, but then they move in a way she doesn't like and she jumps on them. We need to work on this issue, but the only way I can see to work on it properly is in close quarters, which means a muzzle. Though I don't like the muzzle for people interactions because it makes it hard for them to feed her, I'm going to work on it anyway and leave off any close interactions for a while until she is pretty happy with the muzzle. Any tips on how you got Lola to tolerate and/or like the muzzle? I'm going to try the cheese in a can next, squirting a little through the hole we cut in the front. I hope she loves it, because otherwise I'm out of ideas.
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Aug 4, 2011 16:12
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a life less posted:It's tough to train a dog not to jump on other people since other people tend to greet incorrectly and subconsciously encourage the jumping behaviour. Cohen will still jump up on people who loom over her excitedly. However the problem is gradually going away after months of working on it. I think the reinforcement part is what's lacking; the few videos I've seen basically treat the pets and attention after jumping stops as the reinforcement as opposed to clicks and treats for stopping the behavior. Given that that's how I usually work with him, I guess it'd make sense to be consistent in that respect. I'll keep all this in mind and start pocketing my clicker and treats while at home. As far as attention goes, I already know that I am not going to get him to listen when he's really tense or after a squirrel, but sometimes when he's off lead in the doggy potty area he'll get sniffing (even after he's done) and ignore me entirely. It gets worse if there's another dog around, which I understand. He likes other dogs, but I am worried about him playing and getting too rough. I get that usually his time off lead is his own, but if I need him to come he'll twitch his ears (so I know he hears me) and then he'll keep going. I guess I'm also being impatient in expecting him to be a drone, but sometimes he's an angel and other times he tests the limits of my patience.
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Aug 4, 2011 19:31
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My mum bought an 8 week old rottweiler yesterday and I was just wondering how well puppies tend to learn from other dogs. There's an 11 year old german shepard in the household who's very gentle if not very well trained (she knows boundaries and where to go to the toilet, basic commands like sitting and waiting) and I was curious about what traits and attitudes (if any) the puppy might learn from her. I think the main concern my mum has is that he might grow up to be instinctively violent despite training, and that the older dog's presence might impact his training or something.
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Aug 4, 2011 20:16
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Satanos posted:My mum bought an 8 week old rottweiler yesterday and I was just wondering how well puppies tend to learn from other dogs. There's an 11 year old german shepard in the household who's very gentle if not very well trained (she knows boundaries and where to go to the toilet, basic commands like sitting and waiting) and I was curious about what traits and attitudes (if any) the puppy might learn from her. Having a relaxed older dog around definitely won't hurt anything. But the dog will probably teach the puppy "dog manners." Not people manners so much, but having another dog around will help with mouthiness. Rottweilers, unless from a line bred to guard, are pretty big goofs. Just make sure he's well socialized with strange dogs and people once he gets all of his shots.
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Aug 4, 2011 20:37
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Satanos posted:My mum bought an 8 week old rottweiler yesterday and I was just wondering how well puppies tend to learn from other dogs. There's an 11 year old german shepard in the household who's very gentle if not very well trained (she knows boundaries and where to go to the toilet, basic commands like sitting and waiting) and I was curious about what traits and attitudes (if any) the puppy might learn from her. I saw one study that referenced learning via observation in puppies. I think it was in Whole Dog Journal, but basically it's not a very effective method of teaching any actual behaviors. I think the question you're really asking is if the puppy will mold it's personality to the older dog, and the answer is no. It will be a factor, but just like people, personalities are a product of genetics and environment. You also seem to think that Rottweiler's are a violent breed by nature. That language in and of itself is concerning and I would strongly recommend that you and your mother do some research on basic canine behavior (see the books in the OP) and some research on the breeds you own. You should expect to do a lot of socialization with the puppy early -- both with other dogs and other people.
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Aug 4, 2011 20:51
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Kiri koli posted:Paging Fraction to the thread. I seem to recall a picture of Lola wearing a muzzle around some chickens? I can't find it now... To be honest, Lola isn't a huge fan of the muzzle still - she just tolerates it. I didn't have much trouble with her, but I have previously had to do conditioning work about me touching/holding her muzzle because she used to really hate it, so that could explain why it went pretty smoothly. Treat delivery is really annoying, and the muzzle being a basket one doesn't help, as the wires are so thin. Lola's kibble will just about fit through the bars, but generally I use tiny pieces of cheese/ham/etc to feed through the wires. To get her to deal with it, I spent about day or two with her just eating her meals out of the muzzle, three or four pieces at a time, so that she had to keep putting her nose in to get the pieces. After that: - One piece in the muzzle at a time. - One piece in muzzle; then click and another fed through wires whilst her nose was in the muzzle. - Just one piece fed through wires. - Click for putting nose in muzzle, then throwing piece into it after she removed her head. - Click for a second of nose in muzzle, piece put in muzzle after nose removal. - Click for a second and a half, etc. - Click for two seconds. - Click for three seconds. - Started holding the muzzle so that she had to brush her face against my hands to put her nose in it. - Increased duration of nose in muzzle. - Put peanut butter in the bottom, gently fiddled with straps and stroked her head as she licked at it. - Kibble in the bottom, fiddling with straps as she put her nose in. - Click for putting nose in whilst I fiddled with straps for 1-2 seconds. - Click for putting nose in whilst I folded straps around her head. - Click for above for longer duration (1 second, 2 seconds, etc). - Click for putting nose in and remaining calm whilst I clipped together the muzzle. Immediately unclipped it and gave her a jackpot reward. - Click for above, immediately fed through bars, released after. Used high value small food for jackpot and ease of delivery. - Click for above, longer duration between being clipped shut and being rewarded. - Carry on building duration and generalise! Because Lola's really clicker-savvy, I could go through the steps pretty quickly once we had a good foundation. It probably took a week to get to where we are now, and I should really do more on having her wear it outdoors more, etc. It's just such a bitch to feed treats through the wires. Sorry for the  y'all!
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Aug 4, 2011 22:00
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Thanks for the advice guys, I was a kid when we got the older dog so actually training one is all very new to me. I'll look into the books but are there any specific ones you could recommend for beginners? I think my family's attitude is fueled by a lot of misconceptions (like I didn't even know dominance theory was unreliable until this thread), so I'm feeling one that could help us all get to grips with the basics behind dog behavious would be best.
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Aug 4, 2011 22:43
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MrFurious posted:wtftastic this basically applies to you as well. She is a boxer/lab mix, so she is pretty big already. We've already been trying low-key greetings with me and my husband for about a month or so. I guess a key point of information is that she never started doing this until she met a friend's older dog, Bella and the urinary problem is probably the worst around Bella and her owners. She's had two play dates with Bella and nothing unusual goes on between them, but Bella certainly is head dog around there. My husband and I are actually leaving to go on vacation for over a week and Bella's owners are taking in my puppy for while we are gone, so I am not sure to expect the urinary problem to get better or worse since they will be together for an extended amount of time. Is it possible/would it help to get one of those vests like service dogs have in training that say "Do not pet" online?
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Aug 4, 2011 23:05
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NarwhalParty posted:Is it possible/would it help to get one of those vests like service dogs have in training that say "Do not pet" online? I've looked for something like this briefly, but only found things like patches you could sew onto a vest yourself (which were smallish and not visible enough, I thought). I'm still interested in finding something like this and will probably have to revisit making one myself soon if something doesn't readily exist. My dog is looking friendlier and getting more attention these days...
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Aug 5, 2011 03:58
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Kiri koli posted:I've looked for something like this briefly, but only found things like patches you could sew onto a vest yourself (which were smallish and not visible enough, I thought). I'm still interested in finding something like this and will probably have to revisit making one myself soon if something doesn't readily exist. My dog is looking friendlier and getting more attention these days... I saw this one on another community and liked that was nice and clear but didn't look like a service dog vest. I wish the "Give Me Space" line was larger though. NarwhalParty peeing like that often goes away as a dog ages so just keep up with the calm greetings and there's a good chance she'll get over it in time.
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Aug 5, 2011 04:46
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Satanos posted:Thanks for the advice guys, I was a kid when we got the older dog so actually training one is all very new to me. I'll look into the books but are there any specific ones you could recommend for beginners? I think my family's attitude is fueled by a lot of misconceptions (like I didn't even know dominance theory was unreliable until this thread), so I'm feeling one that could help us all get to grips with the basics behind dog behavious would be best. I really liked The Power of Positive Dog Training by Pat Miller.
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Aug 5, 2011 11:06
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Kiri koli posted:I wanted to ask how your experience with muzzle training a small dog went and what kind of treats you use. I think it's harder with small dogs because the muzzle is so much smaller. I've been neglecting Psyche's muzzle training because 1) she hates things on her nose (our fault, I make her wear her headcollar for safety reasons even though she doesn't like it), 2) we tried it in class once with little success (my husband thinks it makes her a LOT more anxious) and 3) we were always keeping her away from people/dogs so it didn't matter much.  I'm pretty lazy, so I just had her wear the muzzle while we were out for walks ie. in situations where she had other positive things to focus on. Naru got used to it surprisingly quickly and unlike with a headcollar has never tried to use her paws to get rid of the muzzle. She might rub her face a bit more on people and the rugs etc. while wearing it. But she can fall asleep with that thing on just like that and picked up drinking with it on pretty fast. I can't say enough good things about the desing of that thing, unfortunately these sighthound muzzles aren't available in every size. This has enough depth, so the dog can also pant quite freely, which I haven't seen in other models. We have a new dog, a young hovawart, in our search group. He's a bit timid lil' lad, who had visited some other groups with little to no success. He hadn't dared to eat treats of those people, but with us he would. And we were able to observe a lot of interest and some wagging tails around us. I think he'll come along nicely as it seems they finally stumbled on a group that can deal with a shy dog like him. For now he'll come to the woods with us, when we make false trails and pick out the hideouts for our practise. If he comes to one of us he'll get a big treat, but no other attention. I think he'll get a lot more interested in us in pretty short order. And if he doesn't want to play with us, when we get to a point where it might be better to reward him with a toy, we'll be happy to toss it to him and praise the toy instead of the dog. But we'll see what works, when we get there. Riiseli fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Aug 5, 2011 |
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Aug 5, 2011 11:42
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Riiseli posted:Naru isn't a small dog, not large either I think. Here she is with her whippet muzzle: That looks like a nice muzzle. Psyche has one of the plastic Italian basket muzzles and there's basically no room in between the slates so we had to cut a small hole in the front big enough for something kibble sized. I can't just stick it on her and have her get used to it because it's the snapping the clasps behind her head that she really bulks at. So I've been trying to get her used to that. She also is able to paw the muzzle off even though we bought the smallest size that would fit her and it's as tight as it goes. So maybe I should think about trying another one. It might just not be a good fit. I didn't know about the whippet muzzles, so thanks. Where did you get it from? Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Aug 5, 2011 |
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Aug 5, 2011 13:47
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Kiri koli posted:Psyche has one of the plastic Italian basket muzzles and there's basically no room in between the slates so we had to cut a small hole in the front big enough for something kibble sized. I can't just stick it on her and have her get used to it because it's the snapping the clasps behind her head that she really bulks at. So I've been trying to get her used to that. She also is able to paw the muzzle off even though we bought the smallest size that would fit her and it's as tight as it goes. So maybe I should think about trying another one. It might just not be a good fit. Riiseli fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Aug 5, 2011 |
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Aug 5, 2011 14:13
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Riiseli posted:I've tried that type of a muzzle and don't like it. Naru can get one of those off and I was able to use it only in conjuction with a flat collar. I think this model works, because the plastic portion comes so far back (has to be just below the ears to work, I think). The muzzle stays on with it's own buckles, too. So I can let her run around with it and only it on. Here you can see what the muzzle looks like a bit better. I bought mine from a person, who sells equipment to sighthound racing enthusiasts. Sorry to keep asking about this, but it looks like the only place I could get one is ebay and it only comes in one (unspecified) size. One of the ebay pictures shows the length of the basket part about the size of an average pen. I'm at work so I can't measure my dog's muzzle, but here's a picture showing that it's shorter than an about three inch finger.  IMG_0529 by Kiri koli, on Flickr Assuming the one you have is also the one-size-fits-all kind, do you think it would just fall off of her? I can measure when her when I get home, but I can't find any actual measurements of the muzzle online.
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Aug 5, 2011 15:18
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Kiri koli posted:Sorry to keep asking about this, but it looks like the only place I could get one is ebay and it only comes in one (unspecified) size. One of the ebay pictures shows the length of the basket part about the size of an average pen. I'm at work so I can't measure my dog's muzzle, but here's a picture showing that it's shorter than an about three inch finger. Sorry to butt in but it looks like you can order them here and I bet if you emailed them they could tell you the exact size and if they think it would fit Psyche.
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Aug 5, 2011 18:32
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Hello! I'm back with my Borzoi behavioral problems. I'm having a rough time finding a way to train him that works due to some limitations and him being dumb as a brick (but super loving). There are two main things I would love to get opinions on. A little about his history though; Hyperion is just shy of 2 years old. We've had him about 1 year now. He came from a show handlers home and only saw one other dog. He was also an only puppy so he really has poor bite inhibition. We have one other dog who is nice and corrective but generally ignores him. 1) His reactivity to other dogs while on the leash. When I got him he was fine, but then a week later we were attacked by a pit bull. Now he is super reactive when he sees other dogs while he's on the leash. I don't see him as aggressive even though he bites (the biting is from the only puppy thing). We have him on a muzzle and unfortunately a pronged collar. I have to use the pronged collar because he is SO STRONG and it's the only device I've found that won't let him pull me off my feet and drag me down the road (literally, this has happened). And sometimes he'll react even when he just thinks he sees another dog or hears keys dangling like a leash noise. Treats work a little bit but he still freaks out. I feed him treats until he reacts to the other dog then I stop. The problem is, I don't have a friend with a dog that he's not used to and I hate walking around for 3 hours hunting for dogs I may or may not find. Besides when he gets tired after a really long walk he doesn't give a poo poo about other dogs. As for introducing him to a new dog indoors, I've found all I have to do is distract him with treats when the other dog comes in the door. He doesn't even look at said strange dog. We did this just last week and I was very proud of him. Once I stopped with the treats and let him out of his crate he was a little invasive with the sniffing but he was corrected. He allowed the other dog to sniff him as well. 2) Seperation anxiety. OH MY GOD. This dog doesn't know what he's doing to himself. So the second I leave the driveway apparently he howls for ages. The second I close the bathroom door or go outside even, he'll pee or poop even though he's housetrained and just went out 30 minutes prior. When I'm present he'll hold it all day until I take him out. I don't know how to fix this because a) I'm not ever there when he does it and b) he's housetrained so it's got to be something I'm unfamiliar with, like seperation anxiety. For a while I could leave him out of the crate when I went to work and just had to worry about cleaning up some poop when I got home. Now I can't anymore, because the fucker learned he could jump the kitchen gate. He not only counter surfs, but opens the drat cabinets with HIS LONG NOSE and eats EVERYTHING. Not to mention it's dangerous for him because he eats tinfoil and also breaks glasses which he then continues to walk over for a very long time. I came home twice to his spaws being completely bloody and his nose covered in uncooked ramen sauce packets. I'd like to leave him out of the crate. And just like the potty training, he doesn't go near the kitchen when I'm home. He's been taught the command "out of the kitchen." Any advice is appreciated. He's come a long long way since we got him but now I feel kinda stuck. It's really important we get this fixed, or manageable in the next 2 months because we're moving to San Francisco. This means lots of other dog encounters and a landlord that is probably not as cool as ours now. Thanks in advance! edited for very appropriate image.
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Aug 5, 2011 21:08
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Lookit that (LONG) face. So there was some idle chit-chat about how nice it'd be for my shelter to have training classes. Then this "trainer" (I couldn't find any of her credentials) acts like she'd be happy to do it and chimes in with this: quote:you have to see the world from his position...if you were a child and had the best life ever and it got ripped away from you...then in a home agian wouldn't you have a fear of it being ripped away from you again...thats probably what he is doing...its probably not just him needing to be socialized we have seen that he is social...This is what many dogs do after being adopted...THEY PROTECT WHAT THEY LOVE and when in that mode and when they are allowed to be in that mode it just gets worse and then they feel stressed because they feel they have higher rank in the pack and protecting is what they are suppose to do.......However You need to show him you are pack leader and there are several ways of doing so....but first I want to mention a technique all should follow...when you touch a dog in a nice way it reinforces what behavior they are doing at that time I've never seen such a confusing mishmash of old and new school.  I asked if she follows dominance theory but she said "No its called pack theory and positive reinforcement because thats what they understand". 'k
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Aug 5, 2011 23:13
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your saying to that dog here I cought this for you master you eat first I won't touch it and you skidaddle hahaha...Here is the answer LOL...make them work for the food...have them sit...act like your eating it put it on the floor don't let them touch it make them stay..pick up the food set it back down...ask him over to eat..stand there while he looks confused and nibbles..before he claims it body block and pick it up make him sit tell him good boy and give it back to him....This says hey this is my food I will share with you but you have to be good to get it...this gives him no time to CLAIM is game..adventually he will realize you will let him eat...you have to let him know who is in charge.
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Kiri koli posted:Assuming the one you have is also the one-size-fits-all kind, do you think it would just fall off of her? I can measure when her when I get home, but I can't find any actual measurements of the muzzle online.
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Aug 5, 2011 23:25
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vstheworld posted:1) His reactivity to other dogs while on the leash. When I got him he was fine, but then a week later we were attacked by a pit bull. Now he is super reactive when he sees other dogs while he's on the leash. I don't see him as aggressive even though he bites (the biting is from the only puppy thing). We have him on a muzzle and unfortunately a pronged collar. I have to use the pronged collar because he is SO STRONG and it's the only device I've found that won't let him pull me off my feet and drag me down the road (literally, this has happened). And sometimes he'll react even when he just thinks he sees another dog or hears keys dangling like a leash noise. What sort or 'style' of reactivity does he have? Lunging, barking, snarling, snapping, biting? All of the above? You say his biting is related to a lack of bite inhibition, but even so he really wouldn't greet a dog by biting them simply because of that - that is aggression. You need to get him off of the pronged collar. Every time he sees another dog, if he lunges, he's going to get a correction from it - which is painful. If he hasn't already, he will associate the other dog with pain, and become even more reactive because he fears the pain he expects. Have you tried a front-clip harness, a head halter, or anything similar? How much exercise (mental as well as physical) does he get on a daily basis? vstheworld posted:Treats work a little bit but he still freaks out. I feed him treats until he reacts to the other dog then I stop. The problem is, I don't have a friend with a dog that he's not used to and I hate walking around for 3 hours hunting for dogs I may or may not find. Besides when he gets tired after a really long walk he doesn't give a poo poo about other dogs. That part I bolded for you is good. If when he's tired he's less reactive (or not at all), that is good. If you can get him exhausted and then bring him around other dogs and he doesn't react - feed the hell out of that. Build that association between the presence of dogs and Really Great Food (the most high value thing you can think of) while he's tired and not inclined to react. The whole point of counter-conditioning--which is what you're attempting to do by treating him when he sees another dogs--is to change the underlying emotional response that he has. If you get him to be perfect when he's tired, then you can start slowly decreasing how tired he is and he will remain good. If you're counter-conditioning, you need to keep him below threshold - so you need him to not be reacting. Maybe it means that the other dog is a hundred feet away and he's had a two hour walk beforehand; maybe he's had a half an hour run and the dog is three hundred feet away. Find out the moment when he turns from noticing the dog to reacting to it. Try your damnedest to keep him below the point of reacting, and feed him like crazy. If he knows your friends dogs, then why not arrange a meeting outside? You can work on approaching a dog that he probably won't recognise from a vast distance, and slowly decrease the space between them. When he realises that he knows this dog, he'll be thrilled. Your dog doesn't have to be reactive to another dog in order to practice the basics of counter-conditioning with it. vstheworld posted:Once I stopped with the treats and let him out of his crate he was a little invasive with the sniffing but he was corrected. He allowed the other dog to sniff him as well. What do you mean, invasive with sniffing? And how did you correct that? vstheworld posted:For a while I could leave him out of the crate when I went to work and just had to worry about cleaning up some poop when I got home. Now I can't anymore, because the fucker learned he could jump the kitchen gate. He not only counter surfs, but opens the drat cabinets with HIS LONG NOSE and eats EVERYTHING. Not to mention it's dangerous for him because he eats tinfoil and also breaks glasses which he then continues to walk over for a very long time. I came home twice to his spaws being completely bloody and his nose covered in uncooked ramen sauce packets. I'd like to leave him out of the crate. And just like the potty training, he doesn't go near the kitchen when I'm home. He's been taught the command "out of the kitchen." If he's non-destructive outside of the crate (other than counter surfing, etc) then could you shut him into a different room, so he doesn't have access at all to the kitchen? Maybe try shutting him in the bathroom, or your bedroom, etc. My pup used to have serious crate fear, going from silent to screaming in seconds, but would generally be quiet if just left in a room when I had to go. Skizzles posted:I've never seen such a confusing mishmash of old and new school. That... that sure was something, alright. Parts of it were understandable (i.e. distracting from triggers), but other parts were just uhhh yeah. Ask your dog to eat and then move in its path and forbid it to do so. Sure, okay. E: I hope that was at all coherent. It's too late for
Fraction fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Aug 6, 2011 |
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Aug 5, 2011 23:32
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