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Calling it: the next book will begin with the Seanchan landing at Casterly Rock.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:08
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I might have missed this somewhere, but do we know who Robert Strong, Tommen's new kingsguard, is? They said he took a vow of silence, then later state that no one has seen his face, or seen him eat/drink/piss. My only thought would be that maybe Gregor didn't die? Who else could it be? Maybe it's some type of walking corpse magic-dealy?
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Aug 3, 2011 01:09
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RCarr posted:I might have missed this somewhere, but do we know who Robert Strong, Tommen's new kingsguard, is? They said he took a vow of silence, then later state that no one has seen his face, or seen him eat/drink/piss. My only thought would be that maybe Gregor didn't die? Who else could it be? Maybe it's some type of walking corpse magic-dealy? Gregor's body(among others) was used to create a sort of flesh golem that presumably will obey Cersei, and Cersei alone. That's at least what's implied I think.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:12
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RCarr posted:I might have missed this somewhere, but do we know who Robert Strong, Tommen's new kingsguard, is? They said he took a vow of silence, then later state that no one has seen his face, or seen him eat/drink/piss. My only thought would be that maybe Gregor didn't die? Who else could it be? Maybe it's some type of walking corpse magic-dealy? They only drop about 500 hints in Feast that Qyburn's working some big experiment on Gregor's body.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:13
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Totally forgot about the experiments that were going on while Gregor was dying. Neato!
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Aug 3, 2011 01:17
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Was anyone else really happy that Q Martell died instead of taming a dragon in a generic fashion? Oh and sending a sand snake to the small council. lol. Also, the gently caress Cersi. As much as I hate you and think you deserved it, you were close as poo poo to the red keep. Why the gently caress did you break down? gently caress you! PS gently caress Bran.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:21
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Maarak posted:That much is already implied with Coldhands and Bloodraven. Which leads to an interesting theory: what if the coming long winter is a plot of Bloodraven to provide motivation for Westeros to reunite as a single political entity in the face of a common threat? I found Bran's chapters to be great, especially towards the end, and of all the theories behind the motivation of the Others I like this the best, with the amendment that Bloodraven is warging into THOUSANDS of Others. I think it would be really interesting for Bloodraven to install himself in the North, suddenly sense an entire race of the thought long extinct, ancient enemies of Weteros, and create a plot that would result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands in order to create a stable realm. Sort of similar to the ending of The Watchmen, but I still think it works well for this setting.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:27
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By the way, that 'pig' that Coldhands magically found and cooked to keep them alive, that was totally human flesh. They're starving, without even shrubbery to chew on, he goes off to investigate dead bodies and suddenly comes back with a SOW I CAME UPON AND SLAUGHTERED. Mmm Hmm.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:31
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Adama posted:I found Bran's chapters to be great, especially towards the end, and of all the theories behind the motivation of the Others I like this the best, with the amendment that Bloodraven is warging into THOUSANDS of Others. I kind of love this idea. After all, we don't really have the slightest clue at this point where the Others came from or what their motivation is. But that would be a rad explanation. I'm remembering Bran thinking something along the lines of- stupid Children, why don't they fight back and try to make their race thrive again? Well, maybe they don't have it in them... but Bloodraven is human, and maybe he does. This also sets up a great opportunity for Bran to either be corrupted or become the ultimate great hero of the whole story, or both. I kind of see his and Arya's stories as being parallel, and I'm betting both will eventually overcome their masters and go on amazing asskicking sprees.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:35
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The more we talk about this, the more I'm liking it AND think of it as being plausible in the GRRM world where there is no inherent morality to any action/side. The Others COULD potentially be more than an undead, brainless horde and it'd be really cool to see, though admittedly, would jack up the 'fantasy' a thousand fold.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:38
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Supreme Allah posted:By the way, that 'pig' that Coldhands magically found and cooked to keep them alive, that was totally human flesh. The pervasive theme of cannibalism was interesting for this book, especially since winter is only beginning. The portrayal of the North in general was much much darker than any of the other books, now that the Starks have lost almost all influence on the other houses, who are willing to do whatever it takes to survive. In the previous novels, the "Old Ways" of the North and their Old Gods have seemed more pragmatic than the vast bureaucracy of the Church of the Seven, and the politicking in Kings Landing, but seeing what the other houses are up to makes the Stark children seem even more sheltered than I previous thought. Which in turn colors Eddard Stark as a darker person as well. If was simply ignorant of what the Boltons were up to, he's incredibly negligent of protecting the people in the North, but if he knew about it, and let it go on then he's far from the honorable man he seems in GoT.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:51
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Adama posted:Sort of similar to the ending of The Watchmen, but I still think it works well for this setting. "Bran, I'm not a villain out of one of Old Nan's stories. Do you seriously think I'd reveal my masterstroke to you if you had even the slightest chance of affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five thousand years ago."
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Aug 3, 2011 02:55
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Who the Hell is Bloodraven? I've read all 5 books and don't remember this Bloodraven mentioned in every other post. Is this some Bad Thread in-joke I missed?
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Aug 3, 2011 03:12
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I'm fairly sure it was implied by Mance in SoS that while trying to dig up the Horn of Joramund, the Wildlings accidentally "awoke" the White Walkers.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:15
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Reset Smith posted:Who the Hell is Bloodraven? I've read all 5 books and don't remember this Bloodraven mentioned in every other post. Is this some Bad Thread in-joke I missed? http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brynden_Rivers Almost all his actual characterization is in the Dunk and Egg short stories, and some people thought he might be the Three Eyed Crow. Turns out he is.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:17
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TTBF posted:I'm fairly sure it was implied by Mance in SoS that while trying to dig up the Horn of Joramund, the Wildlings accidentally "awoke" the White Walkers. That doesn't make a lot of sense. Weren't they looking for the horn to knock down the wall to flee south from the Others in the first place?
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Aug 3, 2011 03:35
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Reset Smith posted:Who the Hell is Bloodraven? I've read all 5 books and don't remember this Bloodraven mentioned in every other post. Is this some Bad Thread in-joke I missed? Yes, we somehow managed to convince George to insert our fanfic character into the series.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:48
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Ambiguatron posted:That doesn't make a lot of sense. Weren't they looking for the horn to knock down the wall to flee south from the Others in the first place? From what I recall they were doing that just to go someplace it's warm, relatively speaking. The Others just transformed it from a goal to a necessity.
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Aug 3, 2011 04:12
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TTBF posted:I'm fairly sure it was implied by Mance in SoS that while trying to dig up the Horn of Joramund, the Wildlings accidentally "awoke" the White Walkers. Arn't you forgetting that there are others in the very first prologue of the book? I don't think that timeline works out.
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Aug 3, 2011 04:57
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Contra Calculus posted:Yes, we somehow managed to convince George to insert our fanfic character into the series. Hell, it worked with that Ser Patryk guy who got killed by the giant. This would be unironically awesome if true. I really hope that we get some more light on the origins of the Other threat. Maybe some monologueing from Mance before Stannis beheads him for leaving the Watch. I could see him harboring resentment for the kingdom as a whole for his situation and deciding to march south as a gently caress you to everyone he resents. He then rallys the Wildlings together and pokes his nose into something too old and awaking the Others in the process. Do we know why he (Mance) is in the Watch to begin with? Legendary Ptarmigan fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 05:01
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Lester B. Pearson posted:Arn't you forgetting that there are others in the very first prologue of the book? I don't think that timeline works out. It has never been said how long they were digging, but Mance does say while digging they unearthed "...things." They were either digging for a while (under no threat of attack until near the end) or they were digging in a hurry and worried of white walkers. Either way, they found more than the horn. I tried finding it in SoS but it's a thick book and I couldn't find the chapter where Mance talks about the search for the horn. If anyone could post the bit where Mance is telling Jon about the search for the horn, that'd probably settle this quickly. I'm going off of memories from two and a half books ago, so I'm willing to admit I may be misremembering (or misinterpreting) it.
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Aug 3, 2011 06:19
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Contra Calculus informs me that this thread isn't a huge pile of poo poo anymore, so hi everyone!Contra Calculus posted:Honestly, I thought it was a solid book, but it suffered because of two certain main POV characters (whose names I shall not mention here) that had stagnating plotlines. However, there is a certain main POV whose chapters have some of the best writing GRRM has done in ages. And that's all I'll say because I'd hate to spoil anything for anyone (outside of the bad thread of course). I agree completely. Are you talking about the Dany and Jon storylines? Because Dany's was basically dithering about whether to marry, at least until she rode Drogon out of Meereen (which was AWESOME), and Jon's was basically Jon pushing the boundaries of what is appropriate for the Watch to do for Stannis until Jon gets stabbed (speaking of which, I really doubt that Jon's dead). I can totally understand why it took Martin such a long time to write Meereen, though. He has Tyrion and Quentyn converging on the city to get to Dany, Aegon considering doing the same until he decided to go to Westeros instead. Plus he had all of the intracity politics to deal with, and since he had Dany commit to saving Meereen, he can't just have her ditch it to invade Westeros because that would be supremely unsatisfying, not to mention out of character.
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Aug 3, 2011 06:20
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:Contra Calculus informs me that this thread isn't a huge pile of poo poo anymore, so hi everyone! The two storylines I was referring to were Dany's and Tyrion's both of which I have spent too much time in this thread complaining about, but basically I got tired of Tyrion's attitude and I got tired of Dany and Daario subplot and some of the really stupid decisions she was making. And you can probably read the last 63 pages or so of this thread if you want to see why. Everyone basically said everything about them for me. Jon's chapters were somewhat boring at points, but what helped is that he wasn't making infuriatingly dumb decisions as a leader like Dany was doing. And yeah, the general consensus is that it's most likely that Jon isn't dead or at least it's more than likely Melissandre will revive him. He all but outright confirmed that Jon is in fact Azor Ahai reborn with that Melissandre POV. Anyways, the POV that I was referring to that I felt was the best writing GRRM has done in years was the Theon/Reek POV's. Honestly, that stuff boosted this book above AFFC for me in my rankings of the books. Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 06:28
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RCarr posted:I might have missed this somewhere, but do we know who Robert Strong, Tommen's new kingsguard, is? They said he took a vow of silence, then later state that no one has seen his face, or seen him eat/drink/piss. My only thought would be that maybe Gregor didn't die? Who else could it be? Maybe it's some type of walking corpse magic-dealy? It's a zombie -or near enough- and in the epilogue the council members seem pretty aware of it (how could they not be?) but don't mention it because that'd spoil whatever cool zombie gregor antics grrm has planned. Oh well, it'll be fun when that sand snake shows up to join the council and sees a giant guy as big as gregor -who is constantly described as being uniquely huge- who never shows his face.
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Aug 3, 2011 06:31
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Contra Calculus posted:The two storylines I was referring to were Dany's and Tyrion's both of which I have spent too much time in this thread complaining about, but basically I got tired of Tyrion's attitude and I got tired of Dany and Daario subplot and some of the really stupid decisions she was making. And you can probably read the last 63 pages or so of this thread if you want to see why. Everyone basically said everything about them for me. I was kind of disappointed with Tyrion's story. He's still entertaining as always when he's loving with people, but I wish he had gotten to do more than travel around and be super bitter. And yeah, Theon's chapters are fantastic. The series has done a lot with identity, and his terror of himself because of Ramsay's torture was really well done. I haven't gone through the thread yet, but have people discussed the possibility that R'hllor is actually the evil god in the war Melisandre is always talking about? In her POV chapter she thinks about how her powers are much stronger near the Wall, which could either imply what I just suggested or that whatever protective magic is in the Wall is helping her out.
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Aug 3, 2011 06:39
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I just finished it this evening and have yet to even begin to churn through this thread, so this might have been mentioned, but one thing crept up as really loving annoying to me; "You know nothing Jon Snow" has become GRRM's "Nynaeve tugged at her braid." For that reason alone, I'm kind of hoping Jon Snow really did die. But I'm sure he'll wander about the underworld for a chapter until he wargs into a cat and get's his life back.
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Aug 3, 2011 07:48
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:
Theon's character development/change really rivals Jamie's. Never thought I'd get to see a side of him completely traumatized and humbled like this after the jerk jock fratboy he played in the first three novels. quote:I haven't gone through the thread yet, but have people discussed the possibility that R'hllor is actually the evil god in the war Melisandre is always talking about? In her POV chapter she thinks about how her powers are much stronger near the Wall, which could either imply what I just suggested or that whatever protective magic is in the Wall is helping her out. Is it just me or are they hinting that "The Other" that Melisandre decries as the great evil actually the spiritual force behind Lord Brynden, the Greenseers and Children of the Forest, an aspect of the Old Gods?
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Aug 3, 2011 08:29
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Ragnarok the Red posted:Is it just me or are they hinting that "The Other" that Melisandre decries as the great evil actually the spiritual force behind Lord Brynden, the Greenseers and Children of the Forest, an aspect of the Old Gods? There are hints, but no more than that. Melisandre sees Bloodraven/Bran (a thousand eyes etc.) and interprets them as her enemies, Bloodraven says to Bran that darkness is his friend, but there are also strong hints (ie. wights attacking Bran et al. right outside the Children's cave) that the darkness/Old Gods of the Children are antagonistic to whatever drives the Others.
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Aug 3, 2011 08:46
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highme posted:I just finished it this evening and have yet to even begin to churn through this thread, so this might have been mentioned, but one thing crept up as really loving annoying to me; "You know nothing Jon Snow" has become GRRM's "Nynaeve tugged at her braid." "...She's been loving Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know..." "I'm looking for a maid, three and ten..." "Ser Gregor, Dunsen, Raff the Sweetling, Ser Illyn, Ser Meryn, queen Cersei." "My name is Reek, it rhymes with..." GRRM seems to do this alot. Using repetition to help establish the character I guess. It doesn't bother me to much and I actually find it quite effective sometimes. My number one question is who was the hooded man that Theon ran into as he was walking around Winterfell? Seemed pretty knowledgeable.
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Aug 3, 2011 09:20
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Rereading Feast, it's really refreshing how everyone has a sense of purpose. It is still arguably the weakest book, but it seems like the one where the characters are the most driven: even if they're completely deluded (Cersei) or embarking on a futile endeavour (Brienee) everyone still has goals and tries their best to accomplish them. I'm not sure if any major character actually succeeds in their efforts (except Littlefinger) - Cersei fucks up royally, Brienne gets nowhere near Sansa, Asha doesn't win the seastone chair, Jaime remains unredeemed etcetc. But it's still great after reading Dance's hundreds upon hundreds pages of once-great characters moping around in confusion and self-doubt. I don't care if they succeed, I just want some protaganists that actually drive the story forward with their actions rather than reacting to everything. I mean Tyrion just spends the entire book being dragged around with no real choice in the matter: first by Illyrio, then Griff, then Jorah, then the slavers, then his owner...it's only at the end that he regains some element of control and becomes the scheming little Imp we care about SharpyShuffle fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 11:06
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Glug_Glug posted:"...She's been loving Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know..." "I'm looking for a maid, three and ten..." WHERE DO WHORES GO?! Did Raff the Sweetling and Dunsen die? I want Arya to find out out some of these bros are dead. Gregor is technically dead, at least.
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Aug 3, 2011 11:27
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whowhatwhere posted:Again, why do we think Coldhands is an individual instead of, say, a wight Bloodraven warged into? He's (very probably)a wight that an individual has warged into, but I don't see why it should be Bloodraven. I think it'd be cool if the warg (could still be Benjen) had died, turned into a wight and warged back into his own body.
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Aug 3, 2011 12:07
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SharpyShuffle posted:I mean Tyrion just spends the entire book being dragged around with no real choice in the matter: first by Illyrio, then Griff, then Jorah, then the slavers, then his owner...it's only at the end that he regains some element of control and becomes the scheming little Imp we care about Ok I can't argue with that...but it's kinda the whole point. It's the entire reason for the arc being written. There's even the possibility that it instilled a little bit of humility in Tyrion, which was his biggest weakness. He might not have been treated like Jaime and he might have a healthy dose of self loathing, but for all that he was still arrogant and proud. I'd like to see what Tyrion is capable of doing now that he might not shoot himself in the foot all the time mouthing off.
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Aug 3, 2011 12:35
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SharpyShuffle posted:I don't care if they succeed, I just want some protaganists that actually drive the story forward with their actions rather than reacting to everything. Tyrion has never really had to deal with the consequences of his actions before. He is on the run for regicide and patricide and while only being guilty of one, embraces both and accepts that he is probably the most wanted man in the 7 kingdoms and free cities along the Narrow Sea. Yeah, he could have chilled in Pentos a bit longer with Illyrio, hosed a ton of whores and schemed his way from there to Dany. However, he never would have realized that he truly is powerless now and can no longer rely on his name to sway people. Now he actually has to prove that he is smart and politically savvy, etc. to rise through the ranks and that he needs to get people on his side and not just house Lannister. As someone above and others have said in this thread - this book is a lot about identity. Have lost and regained it, choosing to lose it, stripped of it, doubting it, etc.
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Aug 3, 2011 12:41
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Once Jon comes back that's going to be 4 characters coming back to life and with Arya, Mance and probably Mel, 4 who can shapeshift. poo poo's getting dumb.
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Aug 3, 2011 13:47
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Ratios and Tendency posted:poo poo's getting dumb. Perhaps you shouldn't be reading the fantasy genre.
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Aug 3, 2011 13:57
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Once Jon comes back that's going to be 4 characters coming back to life and with Arya, Mance and probably Mel, 4 who can shapeshift. poo poo's getting dumb. "It's so subversive! He kills his characters!!" *resurrects half the main cast*
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Aug 3, 2011 14:04
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Once Jon comes back that's going to be 4 characters coming back to life and with Arya, Mance and probably Mel, 4 who can shapeshift. poo poo's getting dumb. Arya and Mel. Mance can't shapeshift except via Melisandre.
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Aug 3, 2011 14:06
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Not really sure if putting on the cut-off faces from the dead counts as actual shapeshifting.
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Aug 3, 2011 14:08
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I thought that was just a temporary waypoint on the way to magical transformation.
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Aug 3, 2011 14:09
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