The Prison Thread

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HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

The Hidden History of ALEC and Prison Labor

quote:

This article is part of a Nation series exposing the American Legislative Exchange Council, in collaboration with the Center For Media and Democracy.

The breaded chicken patty your child bites into at school may have been made by a worker earning twenty cents an hour, not in a faraway country, but by a member of an invisible American workforce: prisoners. At the Union Correctional Facility, a maximum security prison in Florida, inmates from a nearby lower-security prison manufacture tons of processed beef, chicken and pork for Prison Rehabilitative Industries and Diversified Enterprises [2] (PRIDE), a privately held non-profit corporation that operates the state�s forty-one work programs. In addition to processed food, PRIDE�s website reveals an array of products for sale through contracts with private companies, from eyeglasses to office furniture, to be shipped from a distribution center in Florida to businesses across the US. PRIDE boasts that its work programs are �designed to provide vocational training, to improve prison security, to reduce the cost of state government, and to promote the rehabilitation of the state inmates.�

Although a wide variety of goods have long been produced by state and federal prisoners for the US government�license plates are the classic example, with more recent contracts including everything from guided missile parts to the solar panels powering government buildings�prison labor for the private sector was legally barred for years, to avoid unfair competition with private companies. But this has changed thanks to the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), its Prison Industries Act, and a little-known federal program known as PIE (the Prison Industries Enhancement Certification Program [3]). While much has been written about prison labor in the past several years, these forces, which have driven its expansion, remain largely unknown.

Somewhat more familiar is ALEC�s instrumental role in the explosion of the US prison population in the past few decades. ALEC helped pioneer some of the toughest sentencing laws on the books today, like mandatory minimums for non-violent drug offenders, �three strikes� laws, and �truth in sentencing� laws. In 1995 alone, ALEC�s Truth in Sentencing Act [4] was signed into law in twenty-five states. (Then State Rep. Scott Walker was an ALEC member when he sponsored Wisconsin's truth-in-sentencing laws and, according to PR Watch, used its statistics to make the case for the law.) More recently, ALEC has proposed innovative �solutions� to the overcrowding it helped create, such as privatizing the parole process through �the proven success of the private bail bond industry,� as it recommended in 2007. (The American Bail Coalition is an executive member of ALEC�s Public Safety and Elections Task Force.) ALEC has also worked to pass state laws to create private for-profit prisons, a boon to two of its major corporate sponsors: Corrections Corporation of America and Geo Group (formerly Wackenhut Corrections), the largest private prison firms in the country. An In These Times investigation [5] last summer revealed that ALEC arranged secret meetings between Arizona�s state legislators and CCA to draft what became SB 1070, Arizona�s notorious immigration law, to keep CCA prisons flush with immigrant detainees. ALEC has proven expertly capable of devising endless ways to help private corporations benefit from the country�s massive prison population.

That mass incarceration would create a huge captive workforce was anticipated long before the US prison population reached its peak�and at a time when the concept of �rehabilitation� was still considered part of the mission of prisons. First created by Congress in 1979, the PIE program was designed �to encourage states and units of local government to establish employment opportunities for prisoners that approximate private sector work opportunities,� according to PRIDE�s website. The benefits to big corporations were clear�a �readily available workforce� for the private sector and �a cost-effective way to occupy a portion of the ever-growing offender/inmate population� for prison officials�yet from its founding until the mid-1990s, few states participated in the program.

This started to change in 1993, when The Great poo poo Wastes State Representative and ALEC member Ray Allen crafted the The Great poo poo Wastes Prison Industries Act, which aimed to expand the PIE program. After it passed in The Great poo poo Wastes, Allen advocated that it be duplicated across the country. In 1995, ALEC�s Prison Industries Act was born.

This Prison Industries Act as printed in ALEC�s 1995 state legislation sourcebook, �provides for the employment of inmate labor in state correctional institutions and in the private manufacturing of certain products under specific conditions.� These conditions, defined by the PIE program, are supposed to include requirements that �inmates must be paid at the prevailing wage rate� and that the �any room and board deductions�are reasonable and are used to defray the costs of inmate incarceration.� (Some states charge prisoners for room and board, ostensibly to offset the cost of prisons for taxpayers. In Florida, for example, prisoners are paid minimum wage for PIE-certified labor, but 40 percent is taken out of their accounts for this purpose.)

The Prison Industries Act sought to change this, inventing the �private sector prison industry expansion account,� to absorb such deductions, and stipulating that the money should be used to, among other things: �construct work facilities, recruit corporations to participate as private sector industries programs, and pay costs of the authority and department in implementing [these programs].� Thus, money that was taken from inmate wages to offset the costs of incarceration would increasingly go to expanding prison industries. In 2000, Florida passed a law that mirrored the Prison Industries Act and created the Prison Industries Trust Fund, its own version of the private sector prison industry expansion account, deliberately designed to help expand prison labor for private industries.

The Prison Industries Act was also written to exploit a critical PIE loophole that seemed to suggest that its rules did not apply to prisoner-made goods that were not shipped across state lines. It allowed a third-party company to set up a local address in a state that makes prison goods, buy goods from a prison factory, sell those products locally or surreptitiously ship them across state borders. It helped that by 1995 oversight of the PIE program had been effectively squashed, transferred from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of Justice Assistance [6] to the National Correctional Industries Association [7] (NCIA), a private trade organization that happened to be represented by Allen�s lobbying firm, Service House, Inc. In 2003, Allen became the The Great poo poo Wastes House Chairman of the Corrections Committee and began peddling the Prison Industries Act and other legislation beneficial to CCA and Geo Group, like the Private Correctional Facilities Act [8]. Soon thereafter he became Chairman of ALEC�s Criminal Justice (now Public Safety and Elections) Task Force. He resigned from the state legislature in 2006 while under investigation for his unethical lobbying practices. He was hired soon after as a lobbyist for Geo Group.

Today�s chair of ALEC�s Public Safety and Elections Task force is state Representative Jerry Madden of The Great poo poo Wastes, where the Prison Industries Act originated eighteen years ago. According to a 2010 report from NCIA, as of last summer there were "thirty jurisdictions with active [PIE] operations." These included such states as Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, and twelve more. Four more states are now looking to get involved as well; Kentucky, Michigan and Pennsylvania have introduced legislation and New Hampshire is in the process of applying for PIE certification. Today these state�s legislation are based upon an updated version of the Prison Industries Act [9], which ALEC amended in 2004.

Prison labor has already started to undercut the business of corporations that don�t use it. In Florida, PRIDE has become one of the largest printing corporations in the state, its cheap labor having a significant impact upon smaller local printers. This scenario is playing out in states across the country. In addition to Florida's forty-one prison industries, California alone has sixty. Another 100 or so are scattered throughout other states. What's more, several states are looking to replace public sector workers with prison labor. In Wisconsin Governor Walker�s recent assault on collective bargaining opened the door to the use of prisoners in public sector jobs in Racine, where inmates are now doing landscaping, painting, and other maintenance work. According to the Capitol Times, �inmates are not paid for their work, but receive time off their sentences.� The same is occurring in Virginia, Ohio, New Jersey, Florida and Georgia, all states with GOP Assembly majorities and Republican governors. Much of ALEC�s proposed labor legislation, implemented state by state is allowing replacement of public workers with prisoners.

�It�s bad enough that our companies have to compete with exploited and forced labor in China,� says Scott Paul Executive Director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, a coalition of business and unions. �They shouldn�t have to compete against prison labor here at home. The goal should be for other nations to aspire to the quality of life that Americans enjoy, not to discard our efforts through a downward competitive spiral.�

Alex Friedmann, associate editor of Prison Legal News, says prison labor is part of a �confluence of similar interests� among politicians and corporations, long referred to as the �prison industrial complex.� As decades of model legislation reveals, ALEC has been at the center of this confluence. �This has been ongoing for decades, with prison privatization contributing to the escalation of incarceration rates in the US,� Friedmann says. Just as mass incarceration has burdened American taxpayers in major prison states, so is the use of inmate labor contributing to lost jobs, unemployment and decreased wages among workers�while corporate profits soar.

# ? Aug 5, 2011 16:25

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# ? May 29, 2024 21:50

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

God's Own Warden: in the hellhole that is Angola, Warden Cain will make sure you find Jesus- whether you want to or not.

quote:

Indeed, former Angola inmates say that prisoners who respond to Cain's program of "moral rehabilitation" through Christian redemption are rewarded with privileges, humane treatment, and personal attention. Those who displease him, though, can face harsh punishments. Wilbert Rideau, the award-winning former Angolite editor who is probably Angola's most famous ex-con, says when he first arrived at the prison, Cain tried to enlist him as a snitch, then sought to convert him. When that didn't work, Rideau says, his magazine became the target of censorship; he says Cain can be "a bully�harsh, unfair, vindictive."

"Cain was like a king, a sole ruler," Rideau writes in his recent memoir, In the Place of Justice. "He enjoyed being a dictator, and regarded himself as a benevolent one."

quote:

An attorney representing another prisoner told me that the inmate had been disciplined because he had not bowed his head during prayer. The prisoner also alleged that inmates who don't participate in church services will have their privileges revoked, while those who attend will get "a day or two off from the field, a good meal, and other goodies" such as ice cream. (Some help themselves to further goodies: In a recent scandal, several inmate ministers were investigated for allegedly bribing guards to let them have sex with visitors who came for special banquets.)

The New Operation Wetback: Immigration and Mass Incarceration in the Obama Era

quote:

A second distinguishing feature of the current state of affairs is the presence of the private prison corporations. For the likes of the industry�s leading powers, Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and the GEO Group, detaining immigrants has been the life blood for reviving their financial fortunes.

Just over a decade ago their bottom lines were flagging. Freshly built prisons sat with empty beds while share values plummeted. For financial year 1999 CCA reported losses of $53.4 million and laid off 40% of its workforce. Then came the windfall - 9/11.

In 2001 Steven Logan, then CEO of Cornell Industries, a private prison firm which has since merged with GEO, spelled out exactly what this meant for his sector :

"I think it's clear that with the events of Sept. 11, there's a heightened focus on detention, both on the borders and within the U.S. [and] more people are gonna get caught�So that's a positive for our business. The federal business is the best business for us. It's the most consistent business for us, and the events of Sept. 11 are increasing that level of business."

# ? Aug 5, 2011 16:27

GROVER CURES HOUSE: Aug 26, 2007; Go on...

josh04 posted:

I saw on the news he was 'being prepared for eight days of solitary confinement'. Even you, Norway?

Solitary confinement isn't always borderline sensory deprivation a la The Forever.

# ? Aug 5, 2011 16:53

Emron: Aug 2, 2005

What came out of the CA hunger strike?

# ? Aug 5, 2011 18:29

mitztronic: Jun 17, 2005; mixcloud.com/mitztronic

Nothing will change*, the machine must feed

*at least not from a hunger strike

I found this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/us/22brfs-Hunger.html

quote:

Inmates at Pelican Bay State Prison have ended their hunger strike, which began July 1, the State Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation said Thursday. But a coalition of advocates supporting the hunger strikers said the department�s announcement was premature and accused it of withholding information and underestimating participation in an effort to break the strike.

edit: another one with more info: http://www.care2.com/causes/prisoners-near-death-in-california-hunger-strike.html

mitztronic fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Aug 5, 2011

# ? Aug 5, 2011 20:41

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Video: Private Prison Auction

The troubled facility in Littlefield, TX was clearly a perfect storm of almost everything that could go wrong with a privately managed prison: staff-assisted escapes; suicides; romantic entanglements between inmates and staff; misuse of solitary confinement; lack of transparency; withdrawal of out-of-state prisoners and finally a private prison corporation walking away and leaving the townspeople and taxpayers of Littlefield responsible for an $11 million bond.

The Bill Clayton Detention Center was sold last week for $6 million to an anonymous buyer in an auction conducted by Williams & Williams Worldwide Real Estate Auction. You can watch the auction, where prisoners are referred to as �product�

# ? Aug 5, 2011 23:28

Selavi: Jan 1, 2010

How is this not a modern-day slave auction?

# ? Aug 6, 2011 05:44

Amarkov: Jun 21, 2010

Selavi posted:

How is this not a modern-day slave auction?

People aren't exaggerating at *all* when they talk about American callousness towards prisoners. They're subhuman, why do we care if they're auctioned off as slaves?

# ? Aug 6, 2011 05:54

Selavi: Jan 1, 2010

How can we change the public's perception of prisoners as subhuman? This is a travesty that prisons get away with what they do, and so many people won't even listen because they think prisoners somehow deserve it.

# ? Aug 6, 2011 06:07

Der Luftwaffle: Dec 29, 2008

Selavi posted:

How can we change the public's perception of prisoners as subhuman? This is a travesty that prisons get away with what they do, and so many people won't even listen because they think prisoners somehow deserve it.

It's a problem with society in general, just another link in the spiderweb of issues that will ultimately destroy the United States (or turn it into some bizarre Reconstruction-age society), though I'd say the abysmal education system plays a large part in it. People are being raised on a force-fed diet of mass media and have eschewed their facility for critical thinking in favor of listening to whatever is said by media personalities whose opinions (really the opinions of massive corporations) most closely parallel their own.

It's not a dark conspiracy either, it's plain as day - the next time you talk to someone dead-set against prison reform, I'll bet you that most or all of their talking points will be sensationalist news stories about murderers and rapists with no actual relevant statistics to back anything up.

I remember reading a really interesting point in I think the financial crisis megathread, where someone noted how the Protestant ethic of goodness through diligent work has been perverted by those in power into "work yourself to death or you are nothing". Prisons are a lucrative industry paying dividends to those at the top, who also happen to exert more influence on national government than the voting public, so distoring views to maintain the status quo is very much in their best interests. If you have the ability to co-opt religion, the most effective method of mass influence, you can get people to do/think just about anything, so the irrational majority hatred of prisoners should be no surprise.

Der Luftwaffle fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Aug 6, 2011

# ? Aug 6, 2011 08:04

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Selavi posted:

How is this not a modern-day slave auction?

It is, slavery is perfectly legal in US prisons, read the 13th amendment.

# ? Aug 6, 2011 18:52

Selavi: Jan 1, 2010

Der Luftwaffle posted:

It's a problem with society in general, just another link in the spiderweb of issues that will ultimately destroy the United States (or turn it into some bizarre Reconstruction-age society), though I'd say the abysmal education system plays a large part in it. People are being raised on a force-fed diet of mass media and have eschewed their facility for critical thinking in favor of listening to whatever is said by media personalities whose opinions (really the opinions of massive corporations) most closely parallel their own.

It's not a dark conspiracy either, it's plain as day - the next time you talk to someone dead-set against prison reform, I'll bet you that most or all of their talking points will be sensationalist news stories about murderers and rapists with no actual relevant statistics to back anything up.

I remember reading a really interesting point in I think the financial crisis megathread, where someone noted how the Protestant ethic of goodness through diligent work has been perverted by those in power into "work yourself to death or you are nothing". Prisons are a lucrative industry paying dividends to those at the top, who also happen to exert more influence on national government than the voting public, so distoring views to maintain the status quo is very much in their best interests. If you have the ability to co-opt religion, the most effective method of mass influence, you can get people to do/think just about anything, so the irrational majority hatred of prisoners should be no surprise.

How do we change that though? I can see how something like a church (or other organization's) prison fellowship program could help, especially if there is a way to put people in contact with prisoners and forge a connection.

Also, yeah that part of the 13th amendment is scary in its leniency.

# ? Aug 7, 2011 00:09

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Amarkov posted:

People aren't exaggerating at *all* when they talk about American callousness towards prisoners. They're subhuman, why do we care if they're auctioned off as slaves?

Hell, they're better than slaves.
If they're killed, you get a new one.
And the state pays you to keep them!

# ? Aug 7, 2011 03:05

anonumos: Jul 14, 2005; Fuck it.

Der Luftwaffle posted:

It's a problem with society in general, just another link in the spiderweb of issues that will ultimately destroy the United States (or turn it into some bizarre Reconstruction-age society), though I'd say the abysmal education system plays a large part in it. People are being raised on a force-fed diet of mass media and have eschewed their facility for critical thinking in favor of listening to whatever is said by media personalities whose opinions (really the opinions of massive corporations) most closely parallel their own.

It's not a dark conspiracy either, it's plain as day - the next time you talk to someone dead-set against prison reform, I'll bet you that most or all of their talking points will be sensationalist news stories about murderers and rapists with no actual relevant statistics to back anything up.

I know a small businessman (compared to Goldman and GE) who loves the tea party, even as Bank of America screws him on his loans and he has to pay higher premiums on company insurance for his employees. One of his female employees HATES Planned Parenthood, the mandate for birth control coverage, and Acorn. They both believe criminals seek jail for four squares and a cot and are worse than sub-human. Neither will listen to reason about lowered costs of UHC and ending prohibition, or relaxing immigration, OR active voter discouragement. They also see no problem with our governor pushing through drug testing handouts to his wife's clinics (Solaris). It's mind boggling that they both buy the upper class framing of every issue, despite being little more than middle management.

anonumos fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Aug 7, 2011

# ? Aug 7, 2011 05:06

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Fundamentally they see themselves as members of the rich, just as every American is relentlessly encouraged to. That they aren't rich by American standards- that they are in fact among the exploited- is irrelevant. What matters is that they feel that they are part of the rich in-group, and therefore the concerns and priorities of that in-group must be their own.

# ? Aug 7, 2011 05:47

Lemma: Aug 18, 2010

Der Luftwaffle posted:

It's not a dark conspiracy either, it's plain as day - the next time you talk to someone dead-set against prison reform, I'll bet you that most or all of their talking points will be sensationalist news stories about murderers and rapists with no actual relevant statistics to back anything up.

See, this is what bothers me the most, and what makes me believe that things cannot improve: the blatancy of the corruption in our elected officials and public systems is simply a reflection of our national character, that being one of unenlightened self-interest and willful ignorance. Where governments in places like China and North Korea rely on Orwellian fear tactics to suppress dissent, ours simply relies on its subjects being too coddled and preoccupied with seeking entertainment to want to risk allowing any change.

# ? Aug 7, 2011 08:03

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Der Luftwaffle posted:

It's not a dark conspiracy either, it's plain as day - the next time you talk to someone dead-set against prison reform, I'll bet you that most or all of their talking points will be sensationalist news stories about murderers and rapists with no actual relevant statistics to back anything up.

The Conservative Party of Canada is building more prisons and is passing legislation to punish more things with jail time, to make sentences longer, and make more things illegal in spite of the crime rate being on a constant downward trend.

When called on it, here's what an official had to say:

quote:

"We don't use these statistics as an excuse not to get tough on criminals," said spokeswoman Pamela Stephens.

http://www.canada.com/news/Feds+divorced+from+reality+crime+Canada+Liberal/5137688/story.html

# ? Aug 7, 2011 18:05

Selavi: Jan 1, 2010

Der Luftwaffle posted:

It's a problem with society in general, just another link in the spiderweb of issues that will ultimately destroy the United States (or turn it into some bizarre Reconstruction-age society), though I'd say the abysmal education system plays a large part in it. People are being raised on a force-fed diet of mass media and have eschewed their facility for critical thinking in favor of listening to whatever is said by media personalities whose opinions (really the opinions of massive corporations) most closely parallel their own.

It's not a dark conspiracy either, it's plain as day - the next time you talk to someone dead-set against prison reform, I'll bet you that most or all of their talking points will be sensationalist news stories about murderers and rapists with no actual relevant statistics to back anything up.

I remember reading a really interesting point in I think the financial crisis megathread, where someone noted how the Protestant ethic of goodness through diligent work has been perverted by those in power into "work yourself to death or you are nothing". Prisons are a lucrative industry paying dividends to those at the top, who also happen to exert more influence on national government than the voting public, so distoring views to maintain the status quo is very much in their best interests. If you have the ability to co-opt religion, the most effective method of mass influence, you can get people to do/think just about anything, so the irrational majority hatred of prisoners should be no surprise.

Yeah, but how can we work to change this perception in the general population?

# ? Aug 9, 2011 06:52

Der Luftwaffle: Dec 29, 2008

Selavi posted:

Yeah, but how can we work to change this perception in the general population?

You posted that twice

But honestly, if I knew of a quick and easy answer, I would have included it and it likely would have already been done. It's pretty much a given that any kind of positive reform has next to no chance of coming from the top, it'll have to be a grassroots movement that picks up enough momentum for senators to notice and take advantage of. Revamping the education system is to me the most expedient solution which addresses a whole host of other problems as well, but after all the hot air of the bullshit No Child Left Behind strategy and the constant battles that seem to rage in southern states over secular curriculae, all under what was supposed to be the most progressive presidencies in decades, that'll probably never happen.

The prison fellowship idea for churches is actually a decent idea, organized religion being the only thing I can think of that can match might with mass media outlets, but that would require progressive-mindedness from an organization that is based upon resistance to innovation (I'm not a Catholic or Christian so call me out if I'm off base on that). Their core ideals aren't mutually exclusive with the desired outcome, but you'll still need concerted effort by an enlightened priesthood to engage the stagnant population they have to work with.

Apart from that, if there were some way to organize and unite all the organizations for prisoner's rights into a single advocacy group, it might increase their lobbying power enough to affect real change, but since a group like that wouldn't exactly have millionaires in their ranks, they'd be restricted by donations and probably require tons of shady backroom dealings with congresspeople to sway votes in order to have any real clout.

So yeah, it's easy for me to complain when I have no idea what the solution is.

Der Luftwaffle fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Aug 9, 2011

# ? Aug 9, 2011 21:16

Selavi: Jan 1, 2010

Der Luftwaffle posted:

The prison fellowship idea for churches is actually a decent idea, organized religion being the only thing I can think of that can match might with mass media outlets, but that would require progressive-mindedness from an organization that is based upon resistance to innovation (I'm not a Catholic or Christian so call me out if I'm off base on that). Their core ideals aren't mutually exclusive with the desired outcome, but you'll still need concerted effort by an enlightened priesthood to engage the stagnant population they have to work with.

Yeah whoops, looks like I did. But I think it's a question that needs to be looked at.

Some denominations or churches are definitely more progressive than others. I am not religious myself, but the reason I brought that up is because churches are probably the most powerful community centers around, and they have been important in a lot of social change, for example the black civil rights movement.

I am curious, and this is a general question... What reform movements have there been recently? Or are there significant organizations out there that are trying to spread awareness of this? I would like to find out, and I'm not sure where to start.

# ? Aug 9, 2011 23:48

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Why we need to protect ex-cons from employment discrimination
AZ: $25 fee to visit loved ones in prison
CA: Brown's plan to keep tens of thousands of low-level offenders in county jails instead of state prisons won't reduce the inmate population enough to fully comply with a federal court order
OH: None of the companies seeking to take part in Ohio's prison-privatization plan have a very good track record
CA: Californians would rather ease penalties than pay more for prisons

# ? Aug 10, 2011 00:18

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Der Luftwaffle posted:

Apart from that, if there were some way to organize and unite all the organizations for prisoner's rights into a single advocacy group, it might increase their lobbying power enough to affect real change, but since a group like that wouldn't exactly have millionaires in their ranks, they'd be restricted by donations and probably require tons of shady backroom dealings with congresspeople to sway votes in order to have any real clout.

Getting legislation unanimously passed in record time isn't the problem. Getting (Republican and Democratic) administrations to follow the law is the problem.

# ? Aug 10, 2011 00:29

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Looks like one of the few optimistic predictions I had about American carceral policy is coming true:

Trend to lighten harsh sentences catches on- in conservative states.

quote:

�This is the first sustained opportunity we�ve had as a country to look at our incarceration policies, and it could end, so the work is urgent,� Ms. Gupta said.

# ? Aug 14, 2011 17:57

Gunshow Poophole: Sep 14, 2008; OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069; Clapping Larry

Saw this on a friend's facebook (she's cool, had maybe 5 hateful screeds appended to it) but

No Riker's Island evacuation during Irene

Granted, the hurricane was pretty mild compared to the doom n gloom nonsense being bandied about by the weather channel, but seriously. You can order a gajillion people in lower Manhattan to GTFO, but let's just leave the prisoners where they at! (yes it's a mother jones link but there are mirrors at other places)

# ? Aug 28, 2011 17:53

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Stew Man Chew posted:

Saw this on a friend's facebook (she's cool, had maybe 5 hateful screeds appended to it) but

No Riker's Island evacuation during Irene

Granted, the hurricane was pretty mild compared to the doom n gloom nonsense being bandied about by the weather channel, but seriously. You can order a gajillion people in lower Manhattan to GTFO, but let's just leave the prisoners where they at! (yes it's a mother jones link but there are mirrors at other places)

Didn't poo poo like this happen in Katrina, something that DID have pretty disasterous effects?

# ? Aug 29, 2011 07:39

anonumos: Jul 14, 2005; Fuck it.

duck monster posted:

Didn't poo poo like this happen in Katrina, something that DID have pretty disasterous effects?

Yeh, it was pretty nasty reading:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14290778/ns/us_news-katrina_the_long_road_back/t/report-outlines-prison-horror-katrinas-wake/#.TluW211EOi8

http://www.alternet.org/katrina/26073/

http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-report-details-horrors-suffered-orleans-parish-prisoners-wake-hurricane-katrin

# ? Aug 29, 2011 14:44

The Valuum: Apr 11, 2004

nm posted:

Could be that.
However, work release generally means that you basically pick up trash on the side of the highway and stuff like that instead of going to jail. From the quote

I know this is old but I thought I'd specify since a lot of people have this confused. What you are talking about is work-site. Work site is where you work the county and typically get "day for day" for each day you work (each day you work counts as 2 days). Work release is when you have a job and go back and forth to it.

I was on work release for 6 months.

Fun fact: It cost me nearly $200 a week to be on fuckin' work release. My best jail buddy "Big Bear" actually had to pay double this because he was sentenced in a different county (Didn't really understand that one).

edit: Also trustee is when you work for the jail inside the jail. Where I was this was the best thing to get on, as you got day for day every single day. Work site you had to work for each extra day, and it's almost impossible to work 4+ days a week unless you've been in there a while (there just isn't enough work to go around).

# ? Sep 6, 2011 05:10

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

The Valuum posted:

I know this is old but I thought I'd specify since a lot of people have this confused. What you are talking about is work-site. Work site is where you work the county and typically get "day for day" for each day you work (each day you work counts as 2 days). Work release is when you have a job and go back and forth to it.

I think it depends on the county.
In my county, we call what you described as work furlough.

Where is HFG?

# ? Sep 6, 2011 05:51

The Valuum: Apr 11, 2004

nm posted:

I think it depends on the county.
In my county, we call what you described as work furlough.

Where is HFG?

HFG? I did time in Tuscola county michigan. Now that I think about it the rules for day for day change by county too. Tuscola was actually one of the most generous with day for day.

Side story, most hosed up thing I saw in jail. The area where they did intake was right by the holding tank, and we could see if from our cell. They had a guy come in who was obviously mentally handicapped (He was later put in the mentally handicapped cell to confirm it). They were trying to get him to take off his ring, but he wouldn't. From what I understood his deceased mother had given it to him. Eventually the guard started struggling with him and soon multiple guards threw him on the ground and were slamming their knees on him. The guy started screaming this horrible scream, it was pure fear. He started crying for his mother and screaming help. The guards were swearing at him and doing the thing we've all seen on cops where 5 guys more or less beat the poo poo out of a guy without actually punching or kicking. The amount of hate you could feel coming from the guards was disgusting.

This was county jail, for the most part people just want to get their sentence done, nobody really talks back to the guards unless they're flipping poo poo, but everyone was yelling and swearing at the guards then, people I would not expect it from. It was just so totally wrong nobody could just be complacent with it.

The judge in Tuscola county has 2 DUI's, am I the only one who thinks it's weird he's allowed to prosecute DUIs? Granted he doesn't let them go off easy, it still seems a bit off.

The same judge made me sit in court during sentencing day for 2 weeks and write a report on what I saw. What I did see was one white guy get charged for a half gram of coke, 6 months (standard), two defendants later a black guy had the exact same charge and got 3 years in prison. I REALLY wanted to write something about this, or at least mention their races and that they were almost right after each other.

One thing that doesn't get mentioned much is the ongoing cycle of failure to pay fines. The day I got out another kid got out too, 17 year old kid who got a month for 3 MIPs...of tobacco, because he couldn't pay the fines. They actually charge you $20 a day to be in jail, so people can't pay the fines...go to jail (which gives them more fines) etc.

A very similar thing happens with child support. Some people end up racking up ridiculous amounts of debt. Some dude in court had like $70k in total.

One other part of this cycle is treatment. For any drug offense and domestic violence the court orders you to go to a specific treatment center (one they're hooked up with). This treatment centers suck rear end and pretty much only exist so they can drug test you and try to get you sent back to jail (and to collect the money of course). The treatment center and the jail basically feed each other.

Edit: What is felony murder? How is it different than regular murder?

# ? Sep 6, 2011 06:11

FartFuckHell: Aug 25, 2011; by I Ozma Myself

HidingFromGoro posted:

Looks like one of the few optimistic predictions I had about American carceral policy is coming true:

Trend to lighten harsh sentences catches on- in conservative states.

Goro you're my favorite poster. Possibly the most consistently accurate poster in the 'deep.

# ? Sep 6, 2011 06:13

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

The Valuum posted:

HFG?

Hiding from goro

The Valuum posted:

Edit: What is felony murder? How is it different than regular murder?

Felony murder, most simply is when a death occurs during a crime (except assault and the like) where death is a foreseeable result. It doesn't require intent to kill, only intent to commit the crime. Arguably, if a guy has a heart attack during an armed robbery, at common law, you can be charged with murder as if you'd shot him.

nm fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Sep 6, 2011

# ? Sep 6, 2011 06:29

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

nm posted:

I think it depends on the county.
In my county, we call what you described as work furlough.

Where is HFG?

Programs have different names in different jurisdictions (sometimes even in different facilities in the same jurisdiction), and availability varies by location. Some of it is just for show, like the chain gangs in AZ and AL. With modern technology, chaining them together isn't needed to prevent escape or rebellion; it's just for PR because certain voting blocs like seeing minorities chained together wielding shovels. When it comes to work that they actually want to get done, like cleaning up around the courthouse, picking up gators on the freeway, or picking cotton in Angola, there are no chains; because that would impede the work.

# ? Sep 10, 2011 21:04

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

He lives
Have you been following Californias realignment? We just did an mcle on it at the office. The da and judges are going to fill the jail here in 2 weeks.
I might do an effort post about it, basically after oct 1 very few crimes will result in state prison sentences, instead they'll go to county jail.

# ? Sep 10, 2011 22:19

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

nm posted:

He lives
Have you been following Californias realignment? We just did an mcle on it at the office. The da and judges are going to fill the jail here in 2 weeks.
I might do an effort post about it, basically after oct 1 very few crimes will result in state prison sentences, instead they'll go to county jail.

For whatever it's worth I called this a long time ago (in the before time) although I wasn't the only one to do so.

# ? Sep 10, 2011 22:26

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

The Valuum posted:

One other part of this cycle is treatment. For any drug offense and domestic violence the court orders you to go to a specific treatment center (one they're hooked up with). This treatment centers suck rear end and pretty much only exist so they can drug test you and try to get you sent back to jail (and to collect the money of course). The treatment center and the jail basically feed each other.

And don't forget this is all done at the offender's expense.

# ? Sep 10, 2011 22:29

The Valuum: Apr 11, 2004

HidingFromGoro posted:

And don't forget this is all done at the offender's expense.

No doubt it really keeps poor people locked in! When I got out of jail I got out with a fuckin' 17 year old kid, who they gave a month in jail for 3 MIP's...of tobacco, all because he couldn't pay the fines for it, so they through him in and racked him up with more debt.

Side note: I got a call from the police dept./my lawyer yesterday and a OWI charge I got a year ago (but have yet to ever go to court for) has been dropped. I think they messed up the case, why else would a year go by with NOTHING (still have a paper license) and then they suddenly drop it when they could get a shitload of money from me. They know I have the money, they know I have paid the fines right away in the past.

# ? Sep 10, 2011 23:11

Skyworks: Oct 2, 2010; by angerbutt

What kind of deranged brain even comes up with the idea of charging someone to visit their loved ones in prison, let alone implements it. That is disgusting. How the hell can anyone even attempt to defend that in a serious way.

# ? Sep 10, 2011 23:36

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Skyworks posted:

What kind of deranged brain even comes up with the idea of charging someone to visit their loved ones in prison, let alone implements it. That is disgusting. How the hell can anyone even attempt to defend that in a serious way.

The idea is that prisoners are not humans and don't deserve any kind of rights or dignity.

# ? Sep 11, 2011 05:57

Akuma: Sep 11, 2001

The Valuum posted:

Side note: I got a call from the police dept./my lawyer yesterday and a OWI charge I got a year ago (but have yet to ever go to court for) has been dropped. I think they messed up the case, why else would a year go by with NOTHING (still have a paper license) and then they suddenly drop it when they could get a shitload of money from me. They know I have the money, they know I have paid the fines right away in the past.

Why post this? Except to brag that you got away with it?

# ? Sep 11, 2011 08:06

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# ? May 29, 2024 21:50

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

A good rule of thumb is "never talk about an open case." The one that goes along with it is "until you're holding a paper in your hand signed by a judge, your case is open."

But that's just me, do what you like.

# ? Sep 12, 2011 02:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Prison Thread

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