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Malaleb posted:Or if there's a flu bug going around. Or cell phones make everyone into homicidal lunatics.
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Aug 6, 2011 07:08
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I'd like King to have one more stab at a prison novel. Nothing uplifting like Shawshank or a period piece like Green Mile but a down and dirty haunted prison maybe built on the ground the Overlook once occupied. That scene in The Stand where Lloyd is singing to himself while trying to drag his cellmates leg close enough to eat was amazing. Something like that but on a larger scale would have worked a hell of a lot better than Under The Dome did when it comes to tales of unchecked authority.
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Aug 6, 2011 07:45
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Even though being around many thousands of people may not absolutely save you, it's still incredibly preferable to being in that house in the woods or any small town.
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Aug 6, 2011 17:43
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Also, don't take shortcuts, ever. Absolutely stick to the main highways. Unless of course all trucks have become sentient or a hideous gateway to another dimension has been opened.
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Aug 6, 2011 17:45
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Most importantly, stay the gently caress out of Maine.
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Aug 6, 2011 18:13
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spixxor posted:Most importantly, stay the gently caress out of Maine. Yeah, what is up with Maine?
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Aug 7, 2011 00:35
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Octy posted:Yeah, what is up with Maine? All the magical retards went south for the winter. ---------- I just saw the movie version of The Mist and it was surprisingly good!
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Aug 7, 2011 01:19
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cheerfullydrab posted:Also, don't take shortcuts, ever. Absolutely stick to the main highways. Unless of course all trucks have become sentient or a hideous gateway to another dimension has been opened. Worked out well for Mrs Todd.
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Aug 7, 2011 01:27
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Is this the main Stephen King discussion thread? Seems kind of unfair to him for the biggest thread about him to be dedicated to discussion about his worst output or at least to have the thread title encourage as much.
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Aug 7, 2011 01:27
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Opus125 posted:Is this the main Stephen King discussion thread? Seems kind of unfair to him for the biggest thread about him to be dedicated to discussion about his worst output or at least to have the thread title encourage as much. Yeah, it kinda has evolved into the general Stephen King thread. Maybe we ought to get a title change?
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Aug 7, 2011 01:39
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I realized today I've never been able to get through Road Work. It always loses me partway through, which is pretty dissapointing since I love the other Bachman Books I've read. Does it get better towards the end or am I not missing anything?
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Aug 7, 2011 22:04
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I like the thread title.
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Aug 8, 2011 00:30
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I realized today I've never been able to get through Road Work. It always loses me partway through, which is pretty dissapointing since I love the other Bachman Books I've read. Does it get better towards the end or am I not missing anything? Roadwork was pretty good in my opinion, but if you didn't like the start you probably won't like the end either.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:57
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Just finished The Dark Tower Series. gently caress the haters. It was AWESOME. I didn't mind the ending, he really backed himself into a corner and I think it was a cool concept.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:53
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I think you'd like the last Dark Tower better if you're reading it now rather than waiting for it since the 80s. After waiting all that time, the ending is a massive joke because it is no ending. You don't even know if Eddie, Susannah, Jake, and Oy will live or die or not in this new timeline of Roland carrying the horn The ending would be fine for a twilight zone or a short story, it's absolutely terrible for a 7 book series. It'd be like if 7 films got made which at the end turned out to be one day of Bill Murray's life in Groundhog Day. You'd walk out of the movie theater feeling like you got spit on and that you wasted your time. Besides the ending, the fact that All of the characters were getting killed off through the book, Flagg's disappointing death, the pointlessness of Mordred and the Crimson King after so much buildup and the horrible Deus Ex Machina poo poo, the last book from beginning to end seemed like one big "gently caress you" to DT fans. It's really hard to think to think of ways that it could have been any less appealing to DT fans.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:53
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Ridonkulous posted:Just finished The Dark Tower Series. Why is it that anyone who has ever said "gently caress the haters" never really understands the dissenting opinion? The reason you liked it as opposed to the people that followed the books at the time they were written is the wait - tie in - speculation aspect of the series that you're missing by reading them in short order after the fact. So, for instance, we read Dark Tower 1-3, then got tie in books, then 4, then got like 4 or 5 tie - in books, then waited a long time and speculated based on the tie ins, then got 5 - 7 which literally said "all those tie ins and speculation that you've been working off of for over ten years are worthless, I changed my mind because I had to rush the ending because I'm scared of dying because I got hit by a truck." In between DT2 and 5, he did a huge amount of world building, tying in all of his novels together, building up a hierarchy of good vs. evil, hinting of an ultimate good vs. evil showdown of something that was even more powerful than his Eldrich galaxy eating horrors (IT) vs. the power of pure good/creation. For instance, the previous holder of the nexus of all worlds was said to be absolutely nothing as compared to Roland and his group in Black House. The Crimson King was said to be ridiculously multiversal evil, far outweighing allusions to Greek Gods/abstract beings, etc. He created this huge epic showdown... ...and then undid it because of the aforementioned reason by writing himself in the series and saying "Stephen King didn't know what he was writing about - ignore that stuff." On top of that, he undid several plot threads, etc. that were built up a great deal. They aren't horrible, but they're disliked by fans because he transparently undid tons of buildup and writing for personal issues/mood changes, which is universally considered to be lame. You're fortunate, because just reading them straight without all of the universe building he was doing around them, you're just reviewing them on their merits in a self contained series, which makes them better than if you're looking at the entire history and context around the series.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:07
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Darko posted:Why is it that anyone who has ever said "gently caress the haters" never really understands the dissenting opinion? How is this any different than people complaining about the Star Wars EU canon or that the latest Alien vs. Predator movie isn't nearly as good as the Dark Horse comics? I don't think it's fair to chastise people for taking a book series at face value whether than weighing it based on how it fits into the Stephen King Extended Universe.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:20
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Darko posted:So, for instance, we read Dark Tower 1-3, then got tie in books, then 4, then got like 4 or 5 tie - in books, then waited a long time and speculated based on the tie ins, then got 5 - 7 which literally said "all those tie ins and speculation that you've been working off of for over ten years are worthless, I changed my mind because I had to rush the ending because I'm scared of dying because I got hit by a truck." This right here was the biggest thing that upset me about the conclusion of the series... but it was so much worse. The explanation for discarding all of the world-building and interconnected bits of the other books was one line about how sometimes the song of Gan got muddled. Like you said, it was all rushed and he felt the need to very quickly get all this stuff out of the way so he could finish the book.. but that just didn't sit right with me. The ironic thing is, he's still alive nearly seven years after the last book came out. He really did have the time to take his time at it and weave everything together.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:22
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I disagree. For those that say I didn't wait (since the 80s, no) I did a little back reading to get the tie ins for these books. I read 1 Major connections 'Salem's Lot, The Stand, The Talisman, "The Mist", It, The Eyes of the Dragon, Insomnia, Desperation, Bag of Bones, Hearts in Atlantis, Black House, and Everything's Eventual. Just to name the ones listed by Wikipedia. It is easy for you to arm chair quarterback, but I do not see any way to have ended it in a way that would make you people happy. I understand your complaints, but they are pretty much bullshit.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:40
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FreezingInferno posted:This right here was the biggest thing that upset me about the conclusion of the series... but it was so much worse. The explanation for discarding all of the world-building and interconnected bits of the other books was one line about how sometimes the song of Gan got muddled. To my knowledge the only "song of Gan got muddled" was the tie-in with insomnia. Is there any other time?
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Aug 9, 2011 19:42
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Ridonkulous posted:I disagree. No, they're not bullshit, the book has huge obvious flaws. Whether you want to admit to them or not, it doesn't matter. It was not a good ending for a 7 book series, period, because it wasn't an ending and because it made much of the story that we just read pointless. There's not really a good argument you can make for the deus ex machina, it was just bad. Stephen King inserting himself into the story is objectively terrible. The book did poo poo on the expectations fans had. Thinking that you "don't see any way to have ended it in a way that would make us happy" is indescribably retarded since as I pointed out, almost nothing in it could not have been written to be any less appealing to the fans. I mean seriously try to think of a dumber possible conclusion to Flagg and the Crimson King. I can't think of any. Anything would be better than what we got.
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Aug 9, 2011 20:39
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Ridonkulous posted:It is easy for you to arm chair quarterback, but I do not see any way to have ended it in a way that would make you people happy. I understand your complaints, but they are pretty much bullshit. I thought the actual ending, the part after King's idiotic warning, was fine. That really was the only way the series could "end" in my opinion. Everything that came before that, though, at least through all of The Dark Tower and Song of Susannah, and probably most of Wolves of the Calla, was a load of horseshit.
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Aug 9, 2011 20:45
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Super Ninja Fish posted:No, they're not bullshit, the book has huge obvious flaws. Whether you want to admit to them or not, it doesn't matter. It was not a good ending for a 7 book series, period, because it wasn't an ending and because it made much of the story that we just read pointless. There's not really a good argument you can make for the deus ex machina, it was just bad. Stephen King inserting himself into the story is objectively terrible. I'm not saying it was a perfect work. There were things I did not like about it. -Crimson King being an old man -Flagg's death -The very small role of Pat Danville -I hated the part where Susanna meets Eddie and Jake in an alternative New York. That was some bullshit. -I liked the ending, oh well. -Deus Ex Machina is recurring in King's work, don't get your panties in a bunch because they guy who uses it used it in a way you don't like. -Subjectively is what you mean, it would not have mattered if the guys name was Stephen King or Thad Beaumont, Bill Denbrough, or Mike Noonan. He made himself a representative for a beam, OH GOD. He is not the first author to put himself in a work and wont be the last, it is not that bad.
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Aug 9, 2011 21:09
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Farbtoner posted:How is this any different than people complaining about the Star Wars EU canon or that the latest Alien vs. Predator movie isn't nearly as good as the Dark Horse comics? I don't think it's fair to chastise people for taking a book series at face value whether than weighing it based on how it fits into the Stephen King Extended Universe. Because Stephen King wrote his extended universe. Black House and Insomnia and others were, and were billed as Dark Tower books that filled in part of the other stuff happening while Roland was on his quest while you waited for the next numbered book. Then he said, "whoops, didn't happen, Stephen King was wrong!" because he changed his mind because he got into an accident. EUs are generally not written by the original authors and can be overwritten at any time, which is why they're viewed as secondary canon. This isn't the case of that - he wrote books that were sold specifically as being side stories parallel to his Dark Tower story that built on the main story. Even still, if something comes out after a secondary canon story and is written worse, it's still a legitimate criticism to say it's not as good as that secondary story.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:00
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Weren't Black House and Hearts in Atlantis the only books published specifically as DT-tie-ins? I think everything else was kind of retroactive. Which really doesn't change your argument, Darko, it's just an aside.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:04
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Ridonkulous posted:It is easy for you to arm chair quarterback, but I do not see any way to have ended it in a way that would make you people happy. I understand your complaints, but they are pretty much bullshit. Actually most fans don't have a problem with the ending; it's all aspects of the journey there. The biggest issue seems to be the self insertion, not just because he put himself in the book, but because of a combination of using himself as a deus ex machina AND undoing his prior world building in one swoop. The secondary thing is the lack of respect he showed the building he did to other characters like Flagg/Crimson King and rushing a bunch of deaths together at once. The ending itself, people mostly seem to like from my experience. But this combo of other stuff, combined with the buildup to, created the huge disappointment. The funny thing is that the comics and actual EU have kind of "fixed" a few things about those complaints and retroactively made them a bit better, by creating excuses for Mordred + Flagg and building the CK back up and such.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:12
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Ornamented Death posted:Weren't Black House and Hearts in Atlantis the only books published specifically as DT-tie-ins? I think everything else was kind of retroactive. Insomnia, definitely, since the bad guy was the CK, and the whole thing was about Patrick Danville. And of course, after DT3, all the stuff he wrote in stories to specifically reference or tie into the series.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:14
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I could get over the idea of the Crimson King being gimpy because it goes well with the theme of everything breaking down, but the execution is loving terrible. King should have stuck with the concept of the Beast and not retconned it away.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:15
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I very much see the Dark Tower as a story about the journey, not the destination. The ending did not bother me at all.
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Aug 10, 2011 01:57
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ConfusedUs posted:I very much see the Dark Tower as a story about the journey, not the destination. I also agree that it was about the journey, not the destination. But I also agree with most people that the assorted pieces of ending were absolute poo poo. Specifically the nonsensical New York scene, and the essay where he excused his bad storytelling by insulting his readers.
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Aug 10, 2011 02:17
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ConfusedUs posted:I just saw the movie version of The Mist and it was surprisingly good! Until the last five minutes, yes. It was easily the best film adaptation of a King story I have ever seen, but then they took a massive departure from the novella, ruined a really good ambiguous ending, and set it to the best piece of music Dead Can Dance ever did. I was ever so pissed at that ending. The military saving the day with fire extinguishers? Christ.
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Aug 10, 2011 03:04
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The military didn't save the day. They had no effect at all outside of clean up.
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Aug 10, 2011 03:21
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I thought the movie's alternate ending was really good, although extremely depressing. Even if the military saved the day for the rest of the world (and I agree with Darko, they didn't really), they definitely didn't save the day for the characters you just spent the movie with.
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Aug 10, 2011 05:14
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Darko posted:Because Stephen King wrote his extended universe. Black House and Insomnia and others were, and were billed as Dark Tower books that filled in part of the other stuff happening while Roland was on his quest while you waited for the next numbered book. Then he said, "whoops, didn't happen, Stephen King was wrong!" because he changed his mind because he got into an accident. The fill in the bits poo poo is the reason I own most of his books.
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Aug 10, 2011 13:16
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The problem with the Dark Tower is that King's objective shifted dramatically in the last three books. I think it was in the Drawing of the Three he wrote in the afterward that his goal at the outset was to create an epic in the vein of Lord of the Rings, but using modern settings and American tropes, and the first four books really work for that. Following his accident, though, that shifted into him deconstructing the very notion of an epic, which is why the last book is loaded with anticlimaxes. It went from being the final book of an epic kind of a pessimistic analysis of the expectations that everyone had for the end of his series. It's interesting and I think taken as a whole it works as an ending, but it fails as an epic.
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Aug 10, 2011 22:09
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He should do a massive rewrite on everything after book 4. I mean come on, Golden Snitches, lightsabers and Doctor Doom robots anyone?
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Aug 10, 2011 22:31
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Strange Matter posted:The problem with the Dark Tower is that King's objective shifted dramatically in the last three books. I think it was in the Drawing of the Three he wrote in the afterward that his goal at the outset was to create an epic in the vein of Lord of the Rings, but using modern settings and American tropes, and the first four books really work for that. Following his accident, though, that shifted into him deconstructing the very notion of an epic, which is why the last book is loaded with anticlimaxes. It went from being the final book of an epic kind of a pessimistic analysis of the expectations that everyone had for the end of his series. It's interesting and I think taken as a whole it works as an ending, but it fails as an epic. I thought The Stand was meant to be the American Lord of the Rings. Stephen King just can't get it right.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:55
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juliuspringle posted:He should do a massive rewrite on everything after book 4. I mean come on, Golden Snitches, lightsabers and Doctor Doom robots anyone? He was using pop culture references and or poo poo from other fiction before Calla. Book 4's Wizard of Oz poo poo for example. Waste Land's "Velcro Fly". "Hey Jude" in Tull. . .
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Aug 12, 2011 22:10
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ZoDiAC_ posted:He was using pop culture references and or poo poo from other fiction before Calla. Book 4's Wizard of Oz poo poo for example. Waste Land's "Velcro Fly". "Hey Jude" in Tull. . . That's kind of like the difference between the use of theology in early seasons of Battlestar Galactica (ambiguous and kind of neat) compared with the last season (the worst poo poo ever).
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Aug 12, 2011 22:18
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Locus posted:That's kind of like the difference between the use of theology in early seasons of Battlestar Galactica (ambiguous and kind of neat) compared with the last season (the worst poo poo ever). Oh I'm not suggesting the two eras of doing this are equal in value - I cringed like many others at the later attempts at it. I'm just saying it at least was a theme he continued (albeit horribly) as opposed to some new element he shoehorned in.
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Aug 12, 2011 23:12
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