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Since we're spreging about plot predictions, I predict the series will end with Syrio Forel surfing a dragon to save the day. It turns out he's someone's younger brother, was a steward before he was first sword of Braavos, and he liked to dress up as a woman and was more beautiful than Cersei whilst doing so. Also the reason Dany can't control her dragons is because you don't ride a dragon, you surf it. This ancient lore has been lost. But seriously, the only thing about the plot I'm willing to predict for certain is that it's going to continue to build towards a crescendo of fantasy cliche and then someone will gently caress it up somehow over some stupid political bullshit and screw everyone over. Probably the Others will be sealed away again instead of being gotten rid of permanently and nothing will actually improve.
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Aug 9, 2011 16:33
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:I forget, where exactly is Howland Reed at this point? Just chillin' in the Neck? Someone has to meet him at some point for R+L=J, and nobody seems to be heading in that direction anytime soon. Not needed anymore, because Bran POVs are a magic window into the past now. All we need to see is Ned praying in front of a heart tree: "Dear old gods, please let nobody figure out that Jon is the kid of my sister and Rhaegar, also let me keep my head for many years to come, lots of love, Ned."
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Aug 9, 2011 16:41
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:I forget, where exactly is Howland Reed at this point? Just chillin' in the Neck? Someone has to meet him at some point for R+L=J, and nobody seems to be heading in that direction anytime soon. It's possible Sansa could go over that way since she's to be married with the Lord of the Vale, and she's already the daughter of the Lord of Harrenhall.
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Aug 9, 2011 16:43
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Hedrigall posted:Not needed anymore, because Bran POVs are a magic window into the past now. All we need to see is Ned praying in front of a heart tree: "Dear old gods, please let nobody figure out that Jon is the kid of my sister and Rhaegar, also let me keep my head for many years to come, lots of love, Ned." Yeah but this is lame and makes all the foreshadowing moot. Howland drat well better show up at some point.
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Aug 9, 2011 16:43
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Just for the record, GRRM is only like 63, and while people joke about his girth, to my knowledge there's been no news of him ever having been hospitalized for health complications related to it. With modern medicine you can treat your body like poo poo and still have pretty good odds of sticking around for a goodish amount of time. I'd be worried if he were ten years older but 63 is just not a one-foot-in-the-grave age.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:00
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Just for the record, GRRM is only like 63, and while people joke about his girth, to my knowledge there's been no news of him ever having been hospitalized for health complications related to it. With modern medicine you can treat your body like poo poo and still have pretty good odds of sticking around for a goodish amount of time. I'd be worried if he were ten years older but 63 is just not a one-foot-in-the-grave age. Well in the case, bring on the lemon cakes! Many and more!
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Aug 9, 2011 17:12
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Just for the record, GRRM is only like 63, and while people joke about his girth, to my knowledge there's been no news of him ever having been hospitalized for health complications related to it.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:15
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Haha! Shitdick? Care to explain? Google turned up nothing.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:32
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Maybe Howland told it all to Jojen and Meera (they seem to know something of it already) and at some point they tell it to Bran.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:46
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ImJasonH posted:The valonquar and Azor Ahai and the perfumed seneschal and all the other vague prophecies turn out to be multiple people each, because that's how prophecies work I've seen a few people talking about the "perfumed seneschal" thing like it's some kind of riddle or prophecy, but I don't really get it. I took it as a pretty straightforward warning for her not to trust Reznak mo Reznak, considering that he's a) her seneschal and b) always stinking of perfume and c) doesn't come off as trustworthy. Is there any ground to think it's referring to something else aside from THAT'S TOO OBVIOUS IT MUST BE A RED HERRING!
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Aug 9, 2011 17:52
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I haven't had time to go reading the whole thread... but from what I've gathered around the internet, everyone thinks the 'dark flame' in Quaithe's prophecy is Moroqquo or whatever his name is. The red priest who was with Victarion. That's the first thought I had too when I started trying to break that down a bit. But then I remembered Marwyn the Mage from the Citadel and his dragonglass candles. Is it possible it could be him instead of Moroqqo?
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Aug 9, 2011 17:53
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Hedrigall posted:Not needed anymore, because Bran POVs are a magic window into the past now. All we need to see is Ned praying in front of a heart tree: "Dear old gods, please let nobody figure out that Jon is the kid of my sister and Rhaegar, also let me keep my head for many years to come, lots of love, Ned." My theory is that now that Jon is "dead" he will meet up with Ned in the shadowlands/limbo and they'll finally have that chat about his mother that Ned promised they would "the next time we see each other". Ned will tell Jon where his bones ended up (they were being sent north, but never made it) ask him to take his remains to the crypts under Wintefell, and to do the same for Robb's bones. Afterwards he'll get pulled back to the land of the living in Ghost, as a wight, or resurrected by Melisandre.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:55
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Just for the record, GRRM is only like 63, and while people joke about his girth, to my knowledge there's been no news of him ever having been hospitalized for health complications related to it. With modern medicine you can treat your body like poo poo and still have pretty good odds of sticking around for a goodish amount of time. I'd be worried if he were ten years older but 63 is just not a one-foot-in-the-grave age. But if Stephen King is any indication, even surviving a serious medical challenge is enough to turn a good writer into poo poo.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:55
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batomys posted:My theory is that now that Jon is "dead" he will meet up with Ned in the shadowlands/limbo and they'll finally have that chat about his mother that Ned promised they would "the next time we see each other". Ned will tell Jon where his bones ended up (they were being sent north, but never made it) ask him to take his remains to the crypts under Wintefell, and to do the same for Robb's bones. Afterwards he'll get pulled back to the land of the living in Ghost, as a wight, or resurrected by Melisandre. God I hope you're wrong.
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Aug 9, 2011 17:56
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oogyboogs posted:Haha! Shitdick? Care to explain? Google turned up nothing. I find it hilarious that someone googled "george rr martin shitdick". Though I have no loving clue what any of this means.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:01
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DirtyRobot posted:...except that he's going to submit a manuscript which needs to be split because it is physically too large to be bound into a single volume, and lo and behold, the series has just expanded. oogyboogs posted:Haha! Shitdick? Care to explain? Google turned up nothing. Habibi fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Aug 9, 2011 |
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Aug 9, 2011 18:06
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Guy A. Person posted:Definitely, I am just saying if he does manage to resolve all of that in two books, it will be a major shift in pacing from the past 2. Especially the Dany chapters, which have been slow paced world building since book 2 and will have to shift into full gear starting with her first chapter in the next book. Also, when people get into their sixties, they start to lose their mental faculties. I've been dealing with this with my parents and my friends' parents. It's sad, and frustrating. Maybe Martin is the lucky sort who'll be sharp as a tack into his eighties, but the odds are against it, his diet/exercise/lifestyle regimen doesn't point towards it, and his late fifties/early sixties saw him take several extra years to get books 4 and 5 done, and those were full of wandering and asides and some very flabby writing. I just don't see him suddenly regaining his focus as he heads towards age 70 and delivering a tight, well-written pair of novels that wrap everything up in a satisfying way. I hope I'm wrong, but...
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Aug 9, 2011 18:07
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NihilCredo posted:But if Stephen King is any indication, even surviving a serious medical challenge is enough to turn a good writer into poo poo. What makes you think the medical condition is what turned him into poo poo?
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Aug 9, 2011 18:07
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The Mutato posted:I find it hilarious that someone googled "george rr martin shitdick". He got e-coli in his weiner.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:08
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^^^ HAHAHAHAHA.Ecco the Dolphin posted:I forget, where exactly is Howland Reed at this point? Just chillin' in the Neck? Someone has to meet him at some point for R+L=J, and nobody seems to be heading in that direction anytime soon. 
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Aug 9, 2011 18:14
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Finally finished this book and the only thing I really wanted from the ending was a hilarious description of Daario being thrown from a trebuchet. Except they more or less did. People seem to forget that plot threads were left entirely dangling in every ASOIAF novel, not just the last two. They may not have been glaringly obvious, but ASOS left just as much cliffhangers as the rest.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:33
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Azure_Horizon posted:Except they more or less did. People seem to forget that plot threads were left entirely dangling in every ASOIAF novel, not just the last two. They may not have been glaringly obvious, but ASOS left just as much cliffhangers as the rest. Absolutely right. If anything, Tyrion's escape was one of the biggest cliffhangers, and I was pissed at home GRRM handled it in ADWD by fast-forwarding the action.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:38
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pksage posted:I think you're spot on. Remember, Dany has to "head east to go west". While I'm not sure this will be a direct "let's sail across the Sunset Sea and show up on the west coast of Westeros, lol", I do think they're going to do something with The Shadow that will influence the Wall. Or something. If it's hands it can't be Jaime.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:43
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It clearly means zombie Viserys
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Aug 9, 2011 18:51
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Diddie posted:It clearly means zombie Viserys You mean Gold Golem Viserys, a C20 Magical Construct.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:52
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Azure_Horizon posted:Except they more or less did. People seem to forget that plot threads were left entirely dangling in every ASOIAF novel, not just the last two. They may not have been glaringly obvious, but ASOS left just as much cliffhangers as the rest. Except that those books at least resolved some threads before leaving you hanging on others. The ASOS equivalent of AFFC/DWD would have the book ending before the Moutain/Red Viper fight, before Tyrion's escape, etc... The book would have likely ended when 10 separate threads came together to foreshadow Joffrey's poisoning and the last line would have been, "He tipped the chalice back and opened his mouth."
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Aug 9, 2011 18:59
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Habibi posted:Except that those books at least resolved some threads before leaving you hanging on others. The ASOS equivalent of AFFC/DWD would have the book ending before the Moutain/Red Viper fight, before Tyrion's escape, etc... The book would have likely ended when 10 separate threads came together to foreshadow Joffrey's poisoning and the last line would have been, "He tipped the chalice back and opened his mouth." I would not have appreciated AFFC/DWD written in the same way that ASOS was. If he just continued chugging along, we would have lost a huge chunk of worldlore that I think would have hurt the series in the long run. I know people are just so disappointed that things weren't resolved, but I'm pretty sure you also know that the next book will do just what you want.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:05
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Technically, a Varys/Littlefinger POV would suffice to clear up 50% of the missing/not-yet-revealed plot threads, with everything else being handled through plot.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:13
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colonel_korn posted:I've seen a few people talking about the "perfumed seneschal" thing like it's some kind of riddle or prophecy, but I don't really get it. I took it as a pretty straightforward warning for her not to trust Reznak mo Reznak, considering that he's a) her seneschal and b) always stinking of perfume and c) doesn't come off as trustworthy. Is there any ground to think it's referring to something else aside from THAT'S TOO OBVIOUS IT MUST BE A RED HERRING! The boat Tyrion was taking to Mereen, the Selaesori Qhoran, or "Stinky Steward", translates roughly to "perfumed seneschal" so for a while it seemed like it might have been him (or Aegon). Probably yet another red herring though.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:14
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colonel_korn posted:I've seen a few people talking about the "perfumed seneschal" thing like it's some kind of riddle or prophecy, but I don't really get it. I took it as a pretty straightforward warning for her not to trust Reznak mo Reznak, considering that he's a) her seneschal and b) always stinking of perfume and c) doesn't come off as trustworthy. Is there any ground to think it's referring to something else aside from THAT'S TOO OBVIOUS IT MUST BE A RED HERRING! It can't be Reznak mo Reznak because Dany thought it was him and Dany is Wrong About Everything in ADWD.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:22
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Habibi posted:Except that those books at least resolved some threads before leaving you hanging on others. The ASOS equivalent of AFFC/DWD would have the book ending before the Moutain/Red Viper fight, before Tyrion's escape, etc... The book would have likely ended when 10 separate threads came together to foreshadow Joffrey's poisoning and the last line would have been, "He tipped the chalice back and opened his mouth." And the Red Wedding would have taken place offscreen and only been hinted at by rumors that Robb turned into a werewolf at the Twins and maybe a letter that arrives a couple of chapters before the end of the book. And the North storyline would end just as Stannis's troops appear and defeat the Wildlings at the wall. But the book would be just as long, and the missing length would be padded by a step-by-step account of Jamie and Brienne's trip from Harrenhall to King's Landing, plus 10 more Sansa chapters talking about how unhinged Lysa Tully is.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:22
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Azure_Horizon posted:I would not have appreciated AFFC/DWD written in the same way that ASOS was. If he just continued chugging along, we would have lost a huge chunk of worldlore that I think would have hurt the series in the long run. Unlike some people here, I'm actually happy to read the 'worldlore,' and thought the glimpse of post-war Westeros you got from Brienne's travels in AFFC was very interesting. But I still feel like the same could have been accomplished in fewer words/pages, and that more actual plot could have been covered - and this goes for both AFFC and DWD. I enjoyed Tyrion's travels down the river / along the coast of Essos, but his escapades with Penny felt like they belonged more in a feel-good mass-market Oprah's Book Club offering. Some of Dany's chapters read like fan-fic. Etc... I get the impression that a lot of people are looking at this as though it should be a case of one or the other, but I really feel like it should be and could have been a case of both. I feel like a few reductions in 'worldlore' (eg: get rid of the Penny arc) and a few even minor plot resolutions (eg: show Dany's encounter with the khalasar) would have pushed this book over the edge from 'pretty good' to 'great.'
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Aug 9, 2011 20:16
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Why is Doran a prince? Every other High-born is just a Lord so why does Doran call himself a Prince?
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Aug 9, 2011 20:19
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VaultAggie posted:Why is Doran a prince? Every other High-born is just a Lord so why does Doran call himself a Prince?
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Aug 9, 2011 20:25
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VaultAggie posted:Why is Doran a prince? Every other High-born is just a Lord so why does Doran call himself a Prince? I just assumed that was the ruler's traditional Dornish title. Trying to remember - was Dorne conquered by the Targaryens or did they end up just signing on to be part of their kingdom? If the latter, maybe that's why. Edit: There you go. So they probably see themselves less as conquered vassals and more as "well we agreed to be one step below the king/queen, so..." And also the different culture thing.
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Aug 9, 2011 20:26
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The perfumed seneschal is obviously Varys. He couldn't pop up in aGoT without his cloyingly sweet perfume being mentioned. There could be any number of reasons why at this point but it probably has to do with his support of Aegon on the basis that he's been groomed to be a sympathic ruler who would put the good of the smallfolk before the petty games of the nobility, and would perceive Danaerys as a threat to his plan. Dorne is kind of the Texas of the 7 kingdoms. They were a separate sovereign nation who joined willingly and maintain that they have the right to secede if they so choose, though practically speaking they can't ever do that.
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Aug 9, 2011 20:36
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God drat you GRRM. The foreshadowing is always so obvious in hindsight - gently caress Bowen Marsh. gently caress him right in the rear end, if only for ruining Jon's one bad rear end moment in the whole series.
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Aug 9, 2011 20:47
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Habibi posted:Unlike some people here, I'm actually happy to read the 'worldlore,' and thought the glimpse of post-war Westeros you got from Brienne's travels in AFFC was very interesting. But I still feel like the same could have been accomplished in fewer words/pages, and that more actual plot could have been covered - and this goes for both AFFC and DWD. I enjoyed Tyrion's travels down the river / along the coast of Essos, but his escapades with Penny felt like they belonged more in a feel-good mass-market Oprah's Book Club offering. Some of Dany's chapters read like fan-fic. Etc... I get the impression that a lot of people are looking at this as though it should be a case of one or the other, but I really feel like it should be and could have been a case of both. I feel like a few reductions in 'worldlore' (eg: get rid of the Penny arc) and a few even minor plot resolutions (eg: show Dany's encounter with the khalasar) would have pushed this book over the edge from 'pretty good' to 'great.' I agree on this. The world lore and plot developments, like Dany being a poor ruler for instance, aren't bad ideas. But too much time and  are spent on it.Well, except Brienne traveling to some stupid cave. That was just really, really bad in every way. I get bored just thinking about it.
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Aug 9, 2011 20:49
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I was just thinking there is no way these books can be finished in two more. There is way to much going on and too many characters that need POV chapters, which usually aren't very short. I mean just look at this breakdown. You have the North of the Wall stuff with Bran, which will be a few chapters. Then you have the Wall stuff with Jon and Mel, which is sure to be a bunch of chapters. Then you have all the poo poo at Winterfell with 2 POV characters and Stannis, which will probably be a couple chapters. Then you have Davos on Skagos looking for Rickon, surely another 2 or 3 chapter journey. Jamie and Brienne and Lady Stoneheart in the Riverlands, and you know they won't all stay there, so there are some more chapters. Sansa in the Vale dealing with Littlefinger. Going down you have King's Landing, with Cersei, and I doubt we'll just stay on her POV. I'm fully expecting to get the POV from the Sand Snake on her way, not to mention a Tyrell viewpoint, probably Garlan. Let's not forget Aegon and the Griffin campaigning in the Stormlands, that was a plot point left dangling. We're almost certainly going to hear about Dorne and Martell's reaction to his newphew being alive, plus his son's death. This is all on Westoros. Across the sea you have Dany with the Dothraki, Vicatarion and Barristan looking at the huge battle of Meereen. Oh and Tyrion with the Second sons are gonna retake Casterly Rock through the drains. Oh poo poo, I almost forgot Arya, she has to get back to Westoros while still finishing her training. That's like 13 different story lines most of which have multiple POV characters, its going to take forever just for one book month to pass, and I really don't get the impression that the story is almost over. Even if every book is bigger than Storm, I just don't see these books getting wrapped up in just two more.
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Aug 9, 2011 21:01
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There aren't going to be any new POV characters except for the introductions and conclusions.
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Aug 9, 2011 21:20
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