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Dany can still get sick, it happened when she ate the shitberries she thought she saw someone maybe feed to a horse once. I laughed so hard at that part, it reminded me if those little red berries in the woods your parents always told you not to eat.
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Aug 10, 2011 06:56
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Thanks for reminding me that the book literally ends with Dany having the shits.
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Aug 10, 2011 07:03
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The Book Barn > A Dance With Dragons - in which Dany gets the shits
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Aug 10, 2011 07:05
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Very interesting take on ADWD: http://matthilliard.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/a-dance-with-dragons-by-george-r-r-martin/
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Aug 10, 2011 07:05
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bigmcgaffney posted:Dany can still get sick, it happened when she ate the shitberries she thought she saw someone maybe feed to a horse once. I laughed so hard at that part, it reminded me if those little red berries in the woods your parents always told you not to eat. They still look delicious to me.
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Aug 10, 2011 08:01
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Abalieno posted:Very interesting take on ADWD:
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Aug 10, 2011 09:43
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I don't think it made much sense for Jon to go after Arya either but I dunno I'll roll with it.
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Aug 10, 2011 09:49
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hellbastard posted:They still look delicious to me. Ah the literal forbidden fruit, a metaphor for ~Daario~ who will not coincidentally also give people the shits. Edit: that article was interesting but it was interesting to see someone who didn't like Theon's chapters.
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Aug 10, 2011 09:51
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Neurosis posted:When you kill two children for no reason you lose the right have sympathy. I'm not sure why I should care about someone who shoved spikes through children's skulls. Though it was a good display of Ramsay's psychopathy. It's okay they're smallfolk. It's not like he hurt any real people.
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Aug 10, 2011 12:53
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Ok so did I completely misinterpret this part or did Arya warg into a cat to watch the Kindly Man attack her with a stick? The whole chapter is about how they take away her sight and she needs to train her other senses (which they don't know include her green dreaming, which also seem to get more powerful at this point). Then when the Kindly Man asks her how she knew it was him she thinks "I saw you" but doesn't say it. Then in like the next paragraph it says something like "she left out the part about the cat following her home and hiding in the rafters", and it is totally out of nowhere because who cares if a cat followed her home?
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Aug 10, 2011 14:20
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Guy A. Person posted:Ok so did I completely misinterpret this part or did Arya warg into a cat to watch the Kindly Man attack her with a stick? Nope, you got it right. When they take her legs, she's going to warg into the Kindly Man and have him carry her around.
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Aug 10, 2011 14:48
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Why does that mercenary want pentos so much?
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Aug 10, 2011 15:13
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bigmcgaffney posted:Dany can still get sick, it happened when she ate the shitberries she thought she saw someone maybe feed to a horse once. I laughed so hard at that part, it reminded me if those little red berries in the woods your parents always told you not to eat. Disease and poison are kiiiind of different things.
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Aug 10, 2011 15:49
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YES bread posted:Disease and poison are kiiiind of different things.
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Aug 10, 2011 16:02
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builds character posted:Why does that mercenary want pentos so much? Wasn't he an exiled ruler from there?
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Aug 10, 2011 16:03
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geeves posted:Nope, you got it right. As mentioned before in the thread, the whole idea is that unbeknownst to the Faceless Men she didn't actually complete her training in the way they intended for her to. She 'cheated', and this will likely have implications for her 'brainwashing' to become a Faceless Man...woman...person.
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Aug 10, 2011 16:42
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Somebody put out the idea pages and pages ago that maybe the guy Arya getting sent to is Varys. There's no real evidence to believe that, but I think it would be loving awesome and a great way to get Arya back into the story already.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:12
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Davincie posted:Wasn't he an exiled ruler from there? They had some system where a prince is selected but basically has no power. Once the crops fail or a battle goes badly or an earthquake happens or whatever, the prince gets his throat cut as an offering to the gods and a new one is selected. Day 1 of that dudes "rule" he stole a horse and booked it out of town.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:13
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Chase Carver posted:...Targs are prone to twins and incest, and Jaime and Cersei are all over that. I keep seeing this rationalization and it's really silly... as if somehow sexual preferences are passed on genetically from generation to generation. If your parents are into incest and do that poo poo around you (or with you, *gulp*) sure you may pick it up as a learned behavior, but otherwise, no. Great-grandma may have liked to get down with jazz musicians back in her day, but it doesn't mean I'm going to start whacking off to photos of Fats Waller or Thelonius Monk.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:16
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batomys posted:I keep seeing this rationalization and it's really silly... as if somehow sexual preferences are passed on genetically from generation to generation. If your parents are into incest and do that poo poo around you (or with you, *gulp*) sure you may pick it up as a learned behavior, but otherwise, no. Great-grandma may have liked to get down with jazz musicians back in her day, but it doesn't mean I'm going to start whacking off to photos of Fats Waller or Thelonius Monk. A wizard did it.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:22
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batomys posted:I keep seeing this rationalization and it's really silly... as if somehow sexual preferences are passed on genetically from generation to generation. If your parents are into incest and do that poo poo around you (or with you, *gulp*) sure you may pick it up as a learned behavior, but otherwise, no. Great-grandma may have liked to get down with jazz musicians back in her day, but it doesn't mean I'm going to start whacking off to photos of Fats Waller or Thelonius Monk. It's not absurd to say that genetics can influence somewhat the extent to which one is predisposed to incest. It's almost certain that both upbringing and genetics come into play. Your jazz analogy isn't necessarily true; your grandmother may have passed on some genes to you that makes you find certain characteristics of popular jazz musicians of her era to be quite attractive, though it's not apparent (or even significant, due to all the other genes and experiences getting in the way). Long story short, it's a complex issue.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:30
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batomys posted:I keep seeing this rationalization and it's really silly... as if somehow sexual preferences are passed on genetically from generation to generation. If your parents are into incest and do that poo poo around you (or with you, *gulp*) sure you may pick it up as a learned behavior, but otherwise, no. Great-grandma may have liked to get down with jazz musicians back in her day, but it doesn't mean I'm going to start whacking off to photos of Fats Waller or Thelonius Monk. It's better than "Tyrion's hair is slightly darker therefore he's a Targ".
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Aug 10, 2011 17:30
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batomys posted:I keep seeing this rationalization and it's really silly... as if somehow sexual preferences are passed on genetically from generation to generation. If your parents are into incest and do that poo poo around you (or with you, *gulp*) sure you may pick it up as a learned behavior, but otherwise, no. Great-grandma may have liked to get down with jazz musicians back in her day, but it doesn't mean I'm going to start whacking off to photos of Fats Waller or Thelonius Monk. Plus the whole tragic narrative of the Cersei and Jaime thing is that they are not Targs, no matter how much they wish/try to be. If Jaime was a Targ, he wouldn't have needed to be on the Kinsguard because he would get to be a king and gently caress his sister which is basically all he wants. He also wouldn't have been marginalized by Aerys, so he would get to fight which is the only other thing he wants. And he already figuratively made the decision of "Lannister vs. Targ" when he killed Aerys and has been punished for it ever since. Cersei likewise dreamed of marrying Rhyaegar and ruling as queen. She got to be queen but everything she does is a pale comparison of the actual Targaryens. She has sex with her brother in secret and is ashamed of it, and she seems obsessed with fire during the burning of the tower of the hand but once again in a more of a passive "I want to be a Targ" way. She is also insane like half the Targs but basically she has all of their worst qualities without any of the good ones. Tyrion on the other hand has only ever wanted to be accepted as a true Lannister, so it would make narrative sense for him to secretly be what every other Lannister was striving to be for the entirety of the novels.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:36
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Welp, I just powered through all five books recently, AND read this entire thread. My ultimate conclusion is this: Victarion is the best character.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:46
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Blind Sally posted:Welp, I just powered through all five books recently, AND read this entire thread. My ultimate conclusion is this:
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Aug 10, 2011 17:50
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Quantify! posted:Yes enjoy his death scene in Winds of Winter when one of Dany's dragons sets his boat on fire as soon as he reaches Meereen. Too bad the red priest is with him and will make him invincible to fire.
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Aug 10, 2011 18:02
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thehoodie posted:Too bad the red priest is with him and will make him invincible to fire. "In the end it turns out that actually Victarion was not a kraken. Glub glub."
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Aug 10, 2011 18:03
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Quantify! posted:No he doesn't die from the fire, instead he drowns because he always wears heavy armor on his boat. He'd just rise again (that which is already dead can never die, etc.) with a water arm from the Drowned God to go along with his fire arm. Then he'd offer tributes to the other gods and get corresponding limbs from them as well. Like a weirwood leg from the Old Gods and... nothing from the Seven because they don't seem to have any real magic. Then he'd be like the Fantastic 4/Super Skrull. GRRM loves pop culture references like that, right?
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Aug 10, 2011 18:50
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:As mentioned before in the thread, the whole idea is that unbeknownst to the Faceless Men she didn't actually complete her training in the way they intended for her to. She 'cheated', and this will likely have implications for her 'brainwashing' to become a Faceless Man...woman...person. "When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." - Jon to Arya, early in AGoT, not foreshadowing anything at all, nope.
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Aug 10, 2011 18:51
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To me it seems clear that unless the brainwash portion lies in the future, it hasn't taken with her. At the very least, it's clear that she already has not been trained in quite the way the Faceless Men had hoped, so I don't think there would be any tension to a "Arya has to kill someone she cared about in her past life" type of development. But you mention something interesting that I am looking forward to seeing, which is Sansa's development in the coming books. It seems fairly clearly telegraphed that she is going to learn to play the Game from Littlefinger and that much of her experiences in the books to date are about her realizing the naivete of her current worldview. Every other character on the Stark side of things is some kind of action-oriented character, so I think it fits that Sansa would learn courtly intrigues.
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Aug 10, 2011 18:56
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FMguru posted:"When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." - Jon to Arya, early in AGoT, not foreshadowing anything at all, nope. But if you want to believe GRRM will just give away a main characters fate in the first book, go for it.
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Aug 10, 2011 18:56
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:But you mention something interesting that I am looking forward to seeing, which is Sansa's development in the coming books. It seems fairly clearly telegraphed that she is going to learn to play the Game from Littlefinger and that much of her experiences in the books to date are about her realizing the naivete of her current worldview. Every other character on the Stark side of things is some kind of action-oriented character, so I think it fits that Sansa would learn courtly intrigues. The thing is, Sansa isn't smart. Yeah LF has a hard-on for her, and yeah she's jaded because she's had it rough, but LF, Varys, Tywin, etc - all those characters are deeply intelligent and they play the Game well because of it. Sansa is a hollow, brainless, moping, pathetic shell of a person. None of this is her fault (she is a kid after all) but it will be such a disappointment if she becomes this Machiavellian mastermind after a year of watching LF screw people over. She's never shown insight or cleverness - she's always been the fall guy and this supposedly inevitable metamorphosis into Master Player would be the most groan-inducing development of the series. EDIT - so I just finished the book and a few things I wanted to ask about here: 1. Who do you guys think is the man who "dishonored" Ashara Dayne at Harrenhall? Is it Ned, her brother, who? This is nagging at me so bad I can't stand it. It's obvious the man in question was the father of Ashara's stillborn daughter. Barristan doesn't really hint at who it was, unless I missed it. 2. In one of Griff's chapters, he remembers Varys convincing Aerys that he meant to make a grab for the throne by having the Tourney at Harrenhall. If Varys is on the side of the Targs, why would he sow division between the King and his son? Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 10, 2011 |
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Aug 10, 2011 19:50
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She gets sent to Winterfell to stand in for Jeyne so she can get close enough to Ramsay Bolton to slit his throat. Fake Arya is Real Arya!
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Aug 10, 2011 19:51
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Unzip and Attack posted:2. In one of Griff's chapters, he remembers Varys convincing Aerys that he meant to make a grab for the throne by having the Tourney at Harrenhall. If Varys is on the side of the Targs, why would he sow division between the King and his son? Maybe Rhaegar really was going to make a grab for the throne, so Varys told Aerys the truth to try to prevent a war?
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Aug 10, 2011 20:25
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Unzip and Attack posted:The thing is, Sansa isn't smart. Yeah LF has a hard-on for her, and yeah she's jaded because she's had it rough, but LF, Varys, Tywin, etc - all those characters are deeply intelligent and they play the Game well because of it. Sansa is a hollow, brainless, moping, pathetic shell of a person. None of this is her fault (she is a kid after all) but it will be such a disappointment if she becomes this Machiavellian mastermind after a year of watching LF screw people over. She's never shown insight or cleverness - she's always been the fall guy and this supposedly inevitable metamorphosis into Master Player would be the most groan-inducing development of the series. I think both of these might be cases of "unreliable narrators". Or if not unreliable then at least narrators who have their own prejudices and interpretation of the facts. Barristan obviously was in love with Ashara Dayne, so he might have thought that Ned "dishonored" her by sleeping with her. This is most likely not the case of course but right now Ned is the only suspect since we know he danced with her and not much else about her role at the tourney. Barristan may have heard a rumor and drew his own conclusions out of jealousy. Same thing with the Varys thing, which was also a Barristan flashback. Pretty much everyone distrusts Varys, especially Barristan who mentions it several times throughout his story. He might just have blamed Varys because he doesn't trust him. Obviously we would need more information for either of those mysteries. So far we only know that Ashara was at the tournament and that she and Ned shared a dance and maybe more. This is also the first time we have heard about any distrust between Rhaegar and Aerys and it was a throw away sentence, so we would need more information.
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Aug 10, 2011 20:35
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Unzip and Attack posted:EDIT - so I just finished the book and a few things I wanted to ask about here:  theory.
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Aug 10, 2011 20:39
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I don't agree with that assessment of Sansa. She had a deeply flawed understanding of how the world worked but her actions made sense inside of that framework. Nothing she has done indicated that she was anything but naive. While her chapters may not have been popular with the BB crew here, that probably has as much to do with her having the least in common with your average BBer and certainly your average ASoIaF reader and therefore being the least relatable. (What I'm saying is we're a bunch of neckbeards.) 
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Aug 10, 2011 20:46
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Abalieno posted:Very interesting take on ADWD: One problem I have with this analysis is that it argues that the Others are the main issue of the novels, and that ADWD doesn't do much to advance that part of the story. Although I tentatively agree with the first part, I take issue with the second. I think that the main project of ASOIAF is concerned with finding how (and whether) to be moral & good in an amoral/inhuman world (this might sound like a quotidian sort of point but I think it becomes interesting as it stands in contrast to "traditional" Tolkein style fantasy). In ASOIAF, the magic is real but the gods aren't; human mores (Rhllor, The Old Gods) are imposed on an inherently amoral system. Dragons are real but they aren't the avatars of a supernatural power or wise godlike entities; they're literally wild animals that can only be controlled through force. Just contrast Dany's whip with something like, say, the central relationship in How to Train Your Dragon. With respect to ADWD, I see GRRM really stepping things up with respect to the overpowering, amoral forces of the world. We have two plagues introduced: Grey Scale and the Pale Mare. We have a massive blizzard pinning down and wrecking two armies. Storms at sea scatter Victarion's ships and destroy Stannis's fleet. What does this have to do with the Others? As far as I can tell they are sort the human shaped manifestation of these forces--doesn't Sam at one point say something like "they come when it's cold. Or it gets cold when they come"? I think ADWD is very much concerned with setting up the endgame, even if doesn't move the plot forward as much as some people would like.
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Aug 10, 2011 21:01
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I have a nagging feeling that Daario is going to turn out to be the missing Lannister uncle who went sword hunting that taught Tyrion a bunch of awesome poo poo when he was young. All that gold and that horrible gold tooth- it means more than it probably should...
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Aug 10, 2011 21:04
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We've never seen Sansa try to do anything other than play her role, whatever that role may be. During her captivity she's been taught how to lie well, how to persuade people who won't easily be swayed (Sweetrobin), has suffered a complete disillusionment with the social structure she is embedded in, and is being instructed by the first- or second-best plotter in the realm, who (for once) is genuinely interested in helping someone else. She's got all the tools to become a competent plotter if she's got the cunning and desire for it. To be frank, we haven't seen anything to indicate whether she does or not. The next book is crucial to making her education plausible, and we're unlikely to have the requisite number of chapters to effectively portray the nurturing of any such attributes. Thanks for not realizing the five year gap sucked before you got stuck having to write around it, GRRM. I wish he had devoted some of Dany's sucking to Sansa's actual apprenticeship instead. It could even be thematically appropriate as we contrast Dany's unrestrained caprice and Cersei's paranoiac rage with Sansa's careful introduction to the arts of politics and governance (remember that Littlefinger is extremely competent at running a bureaucracy relative to the rest of the nobility). Instead we get Daario and the brutal murder of Pretty the Pig.
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Aug 10, 2011 21:16
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