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Geez. I don't really have any advice yet, but I'm pretty curious to see a picture of this dog. I promise I'm not trying to be off-topic, I just wanna see what we're working with here.
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Aug 10, 2011 03:44
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Customer Service posted:Okay I need some advice. Get a copy of Susan Garrett's book Shaping Success. It details the training she did with her out-of-control hyper BC Buzz. Another thing you might want to check out is Karen Overall's Protocol for Relaxation. It's a lot of work but quite a few people swear by it and it's highly recommended by Leslie McDevitt (author of Control Unleashed which you might also want to check out). When Pigs Fly! is yet another training book that might be helpful. Protocol for Relaxation here: http://www.dogscouts.org/Protocol_for_relaxation.html
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Aug 10, 2011 10:28
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Someone (Instant Jellyfish) tell me more about DAP. We have a new neighbor dog that is going to move in permanently by the end of the month and I'm anticipating it's going to be really bad to have a big german shephard puppy suddenly move into my dog's territory. I want to try and make the introduction go as smoothly as possible (which is pretty much impossible unless we can set up an intro BEFORE they bump into each other randomly during pee time) and I'm wondering if a DAP collar would do anything. Would it be completely useless outside in the open air? Is it a really subtle effect or do people use it for close to threshold situations? It says on the website that it can be used to help with introductions to new visitors or pets to the house, but that could just mean that it eases slightly anxious dogs. We're also not entirely sure how much we'll be able to hear the neighbors through the walls (signs point to not much so far, but we'll see), so the diffuser might be helpful at home too. Sorry if people have talked about this before, I can't remember what's been said. Also, thanks to everyone for input on the muzzles. I emailed the website that sells whippet muzzles and she said she thinks it'll fit...she was going to compare it to our current muzzle and get back to me, but she hasn't yet so I think I'll just order one and find out. I'm actually excited that I can order a blue one... 
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Aug 10, 2011 14:26
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Kiri koli posted:Someone (Instant Jellyfish) tell me more about DAP. We have a new neighbor dog that is going to move in permanently by the end of the month and I'm anticipating it's going to be really bad to have a big german shephard puppy suddenly move into my dog's territory. I want to try and make the introduction go as smoothly as possible (which is pretty much impossible unless we can set up an intro BEFORE they bump into each other randomly during pee time) and I'm wondering if a DAP collar would do anything. Would it be completely useless outside in the open air? Is it a really subtle effect or do people use it for close to threshold situations? It says on the website that it can be used to help with introductions to new visitors or pets to the house, but that could just mean that it eases slightly anxious dogs. I can offer my experience with DAP. We started using it for car rides because they were causing Sadie some anxiety. We originally tried one of the collars (it was coated on, not a diffuser style) and it did essentially nothing. It was fairly expensive and didn't work at all. Later, our trainer recommended a specific spray style to us (I think this one: http://www.amazon.com/P-Appeasing-Pheromone-Spray-60ml/dp/B001GQI8RE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1312984699&sr=8-2) and that met with almost immediate and quantifiable success. She is much, much calmer in the car and tends to just lie down quietly and occasionally snooze. The recommendation is that you spray it at least 15 minutes before you bring the dog around because there's a lot of alcohol in the spray and it can irritate them before it evaporates. As far as your situation, you could try spraying it on a kerchief and tying it around her neck so that she's breathing it. I don't think you're going to get much help in an outside environment even from the diffusers. I think the effect varies from dog to dog as well, so you'll just have to try it and see.
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Aug 10, 2011 15:03
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MrFurious posted:I can offer my experience with DAP. We started using it for car rides because they were causing Sadie some anxiety. We originally tried one of the collars (it was coated on, not a diffuser style) and it did essentially nothing. It was fairly expensive and didn't work at all. Thanks. I really like the idea of spraying it on a kerchief instead of buying a collar that will just be losing potency all the time. Can you give a rough estimate of how long it seems to work? Like have you gone on hour long car rides? I'm thinking we could spray a kerchief when she's inside and the neighbors are making noise or for our indoor classes. She's a little anxious in the car too (because car sometimes means going to stressful class, even though we do take her other places) so maybe using it on the ride to class will help her frame of mind a bit, even if class is then outside and it's windy or whatever.
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Aug 10, 2011 15:37
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So I have two trick-related questions for you guys! First, I broke Lola's 'take a bow' cue  She is really weird about being handled while working, it just shuts her down (bearing in mind I've never physically corrected her, and she's only been with me or at her breeder's) and a couple of times I made the mistake of gently supporting her belly when cuing a bow when she was learning. Now she cringes and crawls away if I ask for a bow. The tactic I used before to teach it was a very gradual movement toward her with a lure, clicking for any slight bending of her legs, but it was pretty difficult because she goes very quickly from bending her legs to lying down.And secondly, I'm teaching her to limp right now. We've got a good independent paw lift (though she will still try to scratch me/something else if she can, I'm withholding the click for contact with me now) but I can't for the life of me think how to get her to hold it up and move forward. Could I teach a move forward cue seperately, and then combine the two? All I can find on google is either holding your dog's paw and luring them forward, or otherwise hooking the dog's paw up with a leash so that they can't put it down, but that would just shut her down immediately and poison the behaviour, as has happened with her bowing.
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Aug 10, 2011 15:42
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Kiri koli posted:Thanks. I really like the idea of spraying it on a kerchief instead of buying a collar that will just be losing potency all the time. Can you give a rough estimate of how long it seems to work? Like have you gone on hour long car rides? I'm thinking we could spray a kerchief when she's inside and the neighbors are making noise or for our indoor classes. She's a little anxious in the car too (because car sometimes means going to stressful class, even though we do take her other places) so maybe using it on the ride to class will help her frame of mind a bit, even if class is then outside and it's windy or whatever. I would suggest the spray too. Its a "more is better" type of product so if it seems to help at all don't be afraid to really drench the bandana in it. You can also spray your car seats themselves (check for colorfastness first). It should last a couple of hours and you can always quickly reapply if you need to. I would put it on first in peaceful situations a couple times just to make sure she doesn't associate it with doing something stressful. Its certainly a hit or miss product but your chances are better if you get the official DAP stuff and don't try to use it on over threshold situations right off the bat. On a different note, has anyone here had a thyroid test done? Major is starting to have some dermatological issues and if all goes according to plan (ha!) we should be able to drive to the vet by the end of next week and I want to have him tested. As much as I would hate for him to have something physically wrong with him it would be sort of amazing to have all his issues be thyroid based and he could just take a pill and get better. He doesn't have the classic symptoms of being a fat, flabby, flakey mess but I think it would be worth it just in case. Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Aug 10, 2011 |
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Aug 10, 2011 15:56
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Fraction posted:So I have two trick-related questions for you guys! Yay tricks! I love tricks! For bow, at our school we use a lure brought from nose height downwards then out in an L shape away from the dog. We move the lure out from the dog relatively quickly. For whatever reason it seems to work. I taught Cohen to bow before I was hired there by capturing it, since she would bow when I went to kick a ball. Side note: I was working on a hotdog retrieve with Cohen, and I really wanted to make a bit of progress but I could tell I was rushing things and stressing Cohen out. Sometimes all it takes is a little bit of pressure for the fun game to become not so fun. Also "boooow" and "doooown" sound pretty similar to dogs, and the action is pretty similar too. It's resulted in some confusion from time to time, even though my hand signals are fairly distinct. For limp, I happen to have a video that may help. (Unless you've seen it already...) The movement can be really tricky. I would cue a touch when I had Cohen's paw supported lightly, so she would shift a bit to reach my palm. I found luring to be ineffective too, but for whatever reason the cue helped (and I didn't have to go back to teach it). Remember that when you introduce a new criteria you should relax older ones, so if she's free-holding her paw up, reduce the difficulty by supporting her a bit again.
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Aug 10, 2011 15:58
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Instant Jellyfish posted:I would suggest the spray too. Its a "more is better" type of product so if it seems to help at all don't be afraid to really drench the bandana in it. You can also spray your car seats themselves (check for colorfastness first). It should last a couple of hours and you can always quickly reapply if you need to. I would put it on first in peaceful situations a couple times just to make sure she doesn't associate it with doing something stressful. Agreeing with everything about DAP above. I also think that some folks don't have results right away and it takes some getting used to. Be patient if you don't see results immediately in your test scenarios and just keep at it. Re: DAP Duration - We used it driving back home for the holidays a few times, which is about a 6-8 hour drive depending on traffic. I could have this wrong, but I think we only reapplied when we stopped for lunch, which was about 3 hours in, and maybe once more in the afternoon. Seemed to work fine, but there may be an element of steady-state in the car as it wore off. Re: Thyroid - Both of my parents' shelties had thyroid issues. Pill or two a day and they were mostly right as rain until their later years. Is there something specific you wanted to know about? Neither of them were prone to being overweight either, so it's a very real possibility.
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Aug 10, 2011 16:50
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a life less posted:Yay tricks! I love tricks! Thanks for all the stuff! I think I'll start from the beginning again with her bow cue, and change the cue to something different. It was originally 'take a bow' to avoid confusion with 'down', but the 'ow' sound is still there, so I'll think of something completely different. I'll try with the target stick too, she enjoyed chasing that the other day. I just had an impromptu training session for limp, broke out the hotdogs to get her past any annoyance at being held. She did really well! A couple of times, she pulled her paw away from my hand, and I just moved my other hand away so she couldn't touch it. She quickly put her paw right back on my supporting hand, apparently making the connection for now that she can only touch my hand and earn some hotdog if her paw is suspended, as annoying as it is. I'll do another short session of fairly fully holding her paw, and then slowly reduce the amount of support she has. I expect the transition from light support to no support will still be fun, working with her tiny terrier brain.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:10
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MrFurious posted:Re: Thyroid - Both of my parents' shelties had thyroid issues. Pill or two a day and they were mostly right as rain until their later years. Is there something specific you wanted to know about? Neither of them were prone to being overweight either, so it's a very real possibility. What sort of symptoms did they have? Was it physical or behavioral? Did it involve a lot of testing or was it just a simple blood panel? Major has some weird idiosyncrasies that I worry are symptoms of something larger but they're so vague that its possible (and probably likely) they're nothing. I haven't been to the general practice vet since November and now I'm going to be showing up with a whole list of things to discuss and tests that need to be run and I'm worried they're going to think I'm a crazy person. At least I can say that the vet behaviorist said she wanted them run so its less like me being a hypochondriac by proxy.
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Aug 10, 2011 20:38
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Instant Jellyfish posted:What sort of symptoms did they have? Was it physical or behavioral? Did it involve a lot of testing or was it just a simple blood panel? Major has some weird idiosyncrasies that I worry are symptoms of something larger but they're so vague that its possible (and probably likely) they're nothing. I haven't been to the general practice vet since November and now I'm going to be showing up with a whole list of things to discuss and tests that need to be run and I'm worried they're going to think I'm a crazy person. At least I can say that the vet behaviorist said she wanted them run so its less like me being a hypochondriac by proxy. Take this with some salt, as these diagnoses came after I had left home for college. My understanding is the the older one, a female, just started to become more lethargic. Not much more to go on than that, but it was a little early as she was only about 6 or 7 years old at the time. Seemed a little premature. The other one likely had the condition since birth because he had always been fairly territorial and definitely became significantly irritable at night. Looking back on that situation with what we know now, we handled a lot of that very poorly, but that's just how life works sometimes. That's all I really remember, but I can try and call home this weekend and ask if you bother me on IM. As far as the diagnosis, it can't have been that difficult because it was done fairly quickly. In humans, they typically inject a radioactive isotope and then do a scan on the thyroid itself (it's in your neck) and look for half-life decay I think. I don't know if they do the same thing in dogs or not. Maybe we can get Khelmar to stop by with some information? I'd also say that you're the individual most in tune with Major's personality and behavior. Trust your gut -- you're his best and only true advocate.
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Aug 10, 2011 21:23
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MrFurious posted:Take this with some salt, as these diagnoses came after I had left home for college. My understanding is the the older one, a female, just started to become more lethargic. Not much more to go on than that, but it was a little early as she was only about 6 or 7 years old at the time. Seemed a little premature. The other one likely had the condition since birth because he had always been fairly territorial and definitely became significantly irritable at night. Looking back on that situation with what we know now, we handled a lot of that very poorly, but that's just how life works sometimes. That's all I really remember, but I can try and call home this weekend and ask if you bother me on IM. Don't worry about bothering your parents about it, its not that big of a deal. Thanks for the info! I spend all day, every day with the beast so I notice when anything is even slightly off. It can be helpful (I noticed a hot spot starting and was able to head it off before it got serious) but it can also be sort of neurotic on my part.
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Aug 10, 2011 21:37
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For further silly/kinda pointless questions - how do I increase Lola's tug drive outside? Indoors, we've got it covered. I go crazy with the tug, tearing around the house with it, and Lola chases me screeching and lunging for it. We're sorted. Right now, she's staring at the 'special tug' bag and whining at me. But outdoors, she just waits for her tennis ball. She doesn't seem nearly as interested in either tug (rabbit fur and sheepskin), though admittedly most of the increasing value of these tugs thing is from today. I'm planning on taking her to a quiet field tomorrow to really rev her up about the tug away from any other dogs/people/etc, but just wondering if the usual acting like I'm daft with the toy (and not taking any balls to play with) will work? Anyone got any other tips or hints?
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Aug 10, 2011 23:05
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Customer Service posted:We honestly don't have time to be more active with her than this, so is this a case of 'she should be with people who have more time to exercise' or 'she can be trained to be calm with some time'? In the end it's up to my brother though... But I'm just not used to a dog with this much energy! As far as just exercise goes getting your dog to carry something on your walks can help. An hour walk with a dog backpack filled with water bottles will wear out mine when an hour run followed immediately by an hour walk wouldn't phase her in the slightest.
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Aug 10, 2011 23:11
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I have a English Mastiff named Thor who is overly protective. He's fine with strangers once he gets out of the house (He usually puts himself between us and them though) and is even good with cats, our chickens, and other dogs, but having male strangers in our house makes him flip out. He will just bark and bark at them forever. Whenever someone is planning on coming over we put him in the sun room but he just looks in the windows and barks. He's a very intimidating dog, and some family members won't come over to our house because of him. (Secretly I don't really want them to visit anyway) He did have "trauma" when younger (Parvo) and has poor eyesight as well, which may be contributing factors. Any idea what I should do to get him to calm down? hypoallergenic cat breed fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 06:10
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Fraction posted:But outdoors, she just waits for her tennis ball. She doesn't seem nearly as interested in either tug (rabbit fur and sheepskin), though admittedly most of the increasing value of these tugs thing is from today. That said, I think you should be good if you just put away the tennis balls and keep doing what you did indoors with the tug toys. She'll get it. Take advantage of any and all moments outside when you know she'll be revved up to begin with (if you were working on this inside I'd tell you to try tugging when you first come in the front door, for example).
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Aug 11, 2011 07:23
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Rixatrix posted:Do you have any tennis balls with strings attached? Or stick a tennis ball into a sock and try that? Try a Hol-ee Roller Ball? I do actually have a ball on a rope that Lola loves, but... I have no idea where it is. It's in the house somewhere. It's been hideous weather today and we've been pretty busy so I'll have to try tomorrow, but I might try running straight from my door, down the street to the tiny field there and letting her off and tugging/playing keep away immediately. That would get her so revved up. She was such a good girl today though A couple of times now she's met a friend of mine, K, and she's gradually gotten more relaxed around her. It used to be that she'd startle and bark or growl if K moved at all, now she rarely startles and barely ever vocalises when she does. She growled twice times - once when friend first arrived, and once when friend was leaving (we were going with her though so I have no idea why; she didn't growl when we all went to the park earlier, but last time K was here she growled when she was going too).But the main Thing was that we were trying something new: shaping. We had two twenty or so minute sessions of sitting down and me marking and rewarding Lola for her progress. We started out just with Lola looking at K, then moving toward her, then sniffing her, then touching her, and ended the first session when she was giving (hesitant) touches to her hand. Second session, I lowered the criteria and rewarded for moving up to her, and by the end of that session she was giving firm, confident touches. Afterwards, she approached her twice and licked her hand And when we were walking back to the train station and I had to stop, she immediately pulled the lead in K's direction, and only stopped trying to pull forward when we were walking next to K, with Lola walking in between us.EDIT Disco Nixon posted:Thor What's his body language like when strange men enter? And when he sees strangers, particularly men, on the street? Sounds like it could be a case of territorial aggression, possessive aggression, or fear aggression. How old exactly is he, and how much exercise is he getting? Fraction fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 18:59
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We take him on a 15 min walk everyday but he really hates exercising. He's just a big , lazy drool machine. He's one year old and he's definitely anxious when strangers are in the house but he only ever barks at men. When we take him out for a walk and we pass by someone on the street he always tries to get as far away from them as possible if they're men. I don't think he was ever abused by a man since we got him as a small puppy (for free in a Wal-Mart parking lot with Parvo; it's a long story) so I don't understand why he is so afraid of men.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:11
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Disco Nixon posted:We take him on a 15 min walk everyday but he really hates exercising. He's just a big , lazy drool machine. He's one year old and he's definitely anxious when strangers are in the house but he only ever barks at men. When we take him out for a walk and we pass by someone on the street he always tries to get as far away from them as possible if they're men. I don't think he was ever abused by a man since we got him as a small puppy (for free in a Wal-Mart parking lot with Parvo; it's a long story) so I don't understand why he is so afraid of men. A one year old getting fifteen minutes of exercise a day? I can't even say double that. He needs to be getting at least forty five minutes to an hour a day, if not more, to tire him out. How much mental stimulation does he get, and how much off-lead exercise? His fears could well be genetic (I'm dealing with inherited fearfulness/reactivity in my own pup), but it will be impossible to even make a dent in them while he's only getting fifteen minutes of exercise a day. Even if he's lazy, he still needs way more exercise than he's getting. His anxiety won't magically go away with more exercise, but it'll be a good start. You need to start at the beginning: counter-conditioning him by making the presence of people a good thing. Have a look at the OP, to learn some of the basics.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:18
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We play fetch and soccer with him in the yard in the evenings and he's got Kongs and other toys, but what other mental stimulation does he need? I guess I'll start walking him twice a day, but once he gets tired he just lies down and puts his breaks on. We try to prevent that from happening since it's really hard to carry a 170 lb dog. Is that another issue that can be resolved through training?
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Aug 11, 2011 19:23
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Disco Nixon posted:We play fetch and soccer with him in the yard in the evenings and he's got Kongs and other toys, but what other mental stimulation does he need? I guess I'll start walking him twice a day, but once he gets tired he just lies down and puts his breaks on. We try to prevent that from happening since it's really hard to carry a 170 lb dog. Is that another issue that can be resolved through training? How long do you play fetch and soccer with him for? Could you give him all of his meals out of kongs, or else put him on NILIF and make him work for his food? Putting the breaks on is definitely something that can be resolved through training. It's behaviour - and all behaviour can be modified. Honestly, in your situation (with a fearful individual from a breed developed for human aggression), I'd be greatly considering getting professional help right now in dealing with his issues.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:27
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Thank you for all your help. We play fetch and soccer for 15-30 min depending on how late we get home from work. The NILIF program is really interesting and I'll try that along with the increased walks but he's not all that interested in the kongs. I'm glad I know what to do now, and I hope it works. My dad really doesn't like him and wanted me to put him in a shelter, but that's not happening no matter what. My house, my dog. Thank you again!
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Aug 11, 2011 19:37
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Urgh. I know seperation anxiety is a thing that many people quickly jump to, but my god. Lola's been doing really well in her crate lately (she's in it a minimum of fifteen minutes a day while I shower and then another fifteen minutes when I eat dinner at night), and she's even been quiet and happy when I run to the shop for five minutes or so. Yesterday I popped her in there when I went on a forty minute or so errand run, after an hour or so long walk, and she was quiet when we left and I deliberately left a window open. Her barks and screams carry, but on the way back from the block or so away that I would have heard her, I didn't hear anything. SHe'd also eaten the pig's ear and bull pizzle I left her with, each usually taking her about twenty minutes to eat, so I assumed she'd been quiet. Today I had a driving lesson, so put her in there for an hour and put the camera on to see what she was like. And, well. 12:00-13:00pm on 12th August 2011 00:00-16:00 – quiet, eating Kong. 16:01-17:15 – growling and barking at someone delivering something to door. 17:16-23:34 – quiet, eating Kong. 23:35-24:04 – paws at crate door, circles in crate, jumps onto toys. No vocalisations. 24:05-24:29 – quiet, eating Kong. 24:30-24:53 – paws at crate door and whines (24:36), yelps /yaps (24:42), soft yap (24:46). 24:54-25:39 – quiet, eating Kong. 25:40-25:45 – stares out of crate door. No vocalisations. 25:46-25:48 – quiet, eating Kong. 25:49-26:29 – stares out of crate door (25:50), jumps onto toys twice (25:56 and 26:01), yaps (26:02-26:04), whining (26:06), screaming/yelping and yapping (26:08-26:16), screaming/yelping and yapping (26:19-26:22), whining (26:28). 26:30-27:13 – climbs onto toys (26:33), lies down quietly in toy box (26:35-26:59), soft whine (27:00), quiet, alternating between standing and lying on toy box (27:01-27:06), yaps (27:07-27:11), gets off of toy box (27:13). 27:21-27:49 – climbs back onto toy box (27:21), high pitched whining (27:23-27:25), sits in toy box (27:31), whining and screaming/yelping and barking (27:38-27:48), gets off of toy box (27:49). 27:51-28:00 – barking, turning higher in pitch. 28:01-28:02 – whining. 28:03-28:03 and 28:08-28:08 – two single quiets ‘hruff’. 28:08-28:13 – quietly staring out of crate, sat down. 28:14-28:43 –barking. 28:44-28:49 – quiet, until hear the door opening – Jess moving around?? 28:50-29:15 – barking. 29:16-29:31 – gets on toy box, continues barking and yelping. 29:32-29:32 – whining. 29:33-30:01 – quietly stands in toy box, then lies down at 29:46. 30:02-30:06 – jumps out of toy box (30:02), paws door and whines (30:04-30:06). 30:07-30:10 – bites and yanks at bars of crate, whines. 30:12-30:14 – quiet whining. 30:15-30:40 – quietly stands in crate, staring out. 30:41-30:46 – high pitched whining and clucking. 30:56-31:13 – whining, yapping, clucking, barking (mixed). 31:14-31:25 – bites bars of crate, paws at crate, high pitched whining. 31:25-31:30 – barking. 31:31-31:45 – biting and yanking at blanket covering crate, barking (31:33-31:38), biting and yanking at blanket, barking (31:40-31:45). 31:45-35:56 – standing in crate and staring out, no vocalisations. Can hear a dog barking constantly in background (not J or L). 35:57-36:03 – quiet whining; then climbs into toy box, lies down quietly. 36:07-36:09 – quiet growls (???). 36:22-36:38 – gets out of toy box, whining and pawing at crate, then barking. 36:40-36:56 – barking. 36:57-37:04 –standing in crate, staring out, no vocalisations. 37:05-37:22 – barking. 37:26-37:34 – yapping. 37:34-37:39 – barking. 37:50-37:56 – quiet whining. 38:02-38:39 – paws at blankets, then barking and biting bars and screaming, then barking and clucking. 38:43-38:53 – barking, howling, barking. 38:55-39:00 – climbs into toy box, sits quietly. 39:01-39:05 – whining, then barking. Gets out of toy box. 39:06-39:35 – barking, yelping, biting bars of crate, howling, screaming, biting blanket, whining, biting crate bars. 39:39-39:51 – whining, yelping, biting bars of crate, biting blanket, barking, 39:52-40:19 – gets into toy box, lies down quietly; stares intently out of crate door until 40:09, then puts head on edge of toy box. 40:19-40:29 – lifts head and grumbles quietly, then stares. 40:30-41:03 – low, loud grumble and settles head back on edge of toy box. 41:04-42:36 – lifts head, stares quietly out of crate door. 42:37-43:12 – whining/yelping, then barking. Some pauses, some high pitched barks. Gets out of toy box. 43:13-47:19 – lies down on other side of crate, stares quietly out of crate door. 47:20-47:22 – whines, gets up. 47:23-47:29 – barking. 47:30-47:40 – sniffs Kong (one of the two frozen Kongs was still half full when I returned), gets into toy box. Quiet. 47:41-48:34 – barking, yelping, whining, biting blanket, barking, whining, gets half into toy box and yapping, gets out of toy box and bites bars of crate, barking, high pitched yelps and whines and yaps, mixed quiet whines and loud barks. 48:35-48:40 – soft whining, pacing. 48:41-51:04 – grumbles then lies down and quietly stares out of crate door. 51:04-51:28 – gets up; barking. 51:29-51:50 – lies back down, quiet until 51:34, then barks whilst lying down. 51:51-52:03 – stands up, huffs, barks, screams, whines. 52:04-52:28 – lies down at back of crate and rests head on edge of toy box, one grumble at 52:09. 52:29-52:59 – gets up, whines, then starts barking, pawing at door, biting the blanket, then barking again. 53:00-53:03 – quietly standing and staring out of crate door. 53:03-53:13 – soft whine, then starts barking and biting blanket. 53:14-53:20 – lies down and stares out of crate door quietly. 53:21-53:47 – whines once then starts barking/whining. 53:48-53:53 – clucks and whines. 53:53-54:29 – barking, then gets up and barks and whines. 54:29-56:24 – lies back down and quietly stares out of crate door until my return at 56:24. I don't want to say 'oh she has SA', because, well... there are periods where she's quiet (usually immediately after barking - she looks out expectantly, I think when she was younger I accidentally set up a behaviour chain of her barking in the crate, me waiting a few seconds and then letting her out to go to the toilet). She doesn't drool, and she hasn't gone to the toilet in the crate the entire time we've been retraining it, even including yesterday and today. I don't know if she's distressed and trying to get me to come back, if she's out of practice (she isn't left alone a lot, and before yesterday and today hasn't really been in the crate more than twenty or so minutes when I'm out of the house). Do I need to go back to where I know she's good, and work from there? I took her out for about an hour and a half of solid running back and forth playing fetch before I had to go driving. I didn't give her a break while we were out - it had been raining and the grass kept her cool enough that she didn't need one. She was absolutely exhausted, but she still found the energy to bark and scream and my god I'm going to kill this dog. I'll be going back to university in September, and I'm currently trying to persuade my mum to have her days off on the days where I'm in. If she doesn't, Lola will be on her own (in the crate or in the spare room, where she goes to the toilet) for about six hours, three days a week. I just don't know what to do - whether there's any point trying to continue making the crate a good, happy place and have her in there (obviously she'd get a break on the days I'm away if mum won't take the days off), or whether to get her re-used to the spare room, where she whines and paces and goes to the toilet but doesn't bark or scream.
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Aug 12, 2011 16:26
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Fraction posted:Possible SA? I think that you're possibly worrying too much about this at this point. Sometimes dogs are just restless or bothered by something. When I'm home and my dog is crated, I will occasionally hear her whine or make little pathetic noises. At first it freaked me out, but I didn't want to make a habit of checking on her, so I would just keep listening and then see how she was when I let her out (after being quiet). Turns out it was just her being a little whiny-face. She wasn't hurt or afraid, just bored/annoyed because she knew we were home and not letting her out. I imagine she does this while we're gone as well, a few barks at something outside, maybe a whine if she hears something annoying/confusing. I figure I can't expect her to just sleep/be quiet the whole time and I'm sure she's bored because we don't leave her stuff to eat/toys (she won't play with toys by herself besides just ripping them apart and anything she wouldn't have a chance of choking on is gone in five seconds). I think Lola just needs more practice and to learn that barking for attention gets her no where. I wouldn't necessarily back up the crate training to the point where you never go out (maybe practice sticking her in there for short times more often and making sure she's being quiet when you let her out?). More exercise can only help like usual and if you're worried, keep up the webcam action and watch for improvements. If it goes waaay downhill, then it may be SA, but if it stays the same, I would try things like playing music, covering the crate, taking away toys/food that make her excitable, etc. before I give up on it. ---- So I may have made an interesting breakthrough in Psyche's training...or I'm just going crazy. Psyche has always worn a front-clip harness outside of the house (and we frequently leave it on inside). She had it when we adopted her and had learned not to pull with it. At the beginning I tried a couple times to walk her on her flat collar, but she pulled like crazy. Then after I realized she was going to be regularly lunging at people/dogs, I decided to always use the harness until a day came when the bigger issues were resolved (and she wasn't in danger of choking herself). A couple months ago, she decided she didn't like the harness anymore and would shy away from having it put on. We checked to make sure it wasn't rubbing her raw or anything and decided just to desensitize her to putting it on with yummy treats. Once it was on, there seemed to be no problem. I had not given any of this a second thought until last week when I came home and noticed my husband had her leash attached to her flat. I asked if he had taken her out like that and if she had pulled. He said no more than normal (for a short walk around the yard). So I decided it wouldn't hurt to start using the harness only for long walks away from our yard, now that we don't encounter dogs every time we walk out the door. Okay, so here's the weird part. I've been walking her without the harness for a week and I swear to god she's calmer now. We gone on a couple long walks with just the flat and she hasn't barked at anyone. Now that isn't completely unusual because we haven't had a close encounter with a dog yet and she wouldn't bark at anyone on her head collar either since we moved. The head collar is definitely a source of stress though and you can tell she's subdued on it. On the flat, she's excited and yet calm. So it's possible, maybe, that her harness has become a source of stress, even though until just this week, she was wearing it like basically all the time. Tonight for class, I'm going to leave off the harness, but we'll still have to use the dreaded head collar. But maybe at the end of class when all the dogs are settled for cool down time, I'll take it off and see what happens. For the record, my husband thinks I'm crazy. Also, she does pull on the flat (and occasionally makes wheezing sounds, ugh, dumb dog!), but a bit of work at the beginning of a walk reminding her that pulling gets her nowhere and walking nicely gets her treats is working great. It's nice to have something going well, she really is a smart dog when she's capable of learning.
Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Aug 12, 2011 |
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Aug 12, 2011 17:48
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Kiri koli posted:I think that you're possibly worrying too much about this at this point. How do you know that that is all I do I think I might start imposing more crate-time when I'm in the house, but Lola is not with me. I could go read for an hour, or clean up more, or something. At the moment we spend basically all day and night together, so when I do go all my attention goes. Even if someone else is looking after her, she whines after I go for a while. Kiri koli posted:I think Lola just needs more practice and to learn that barking for attention gets her no where. I wouldn't necessarily back up the crate training to the point where you never go out (maybe practice sticking her in there for short times more often and making sure she's being quiet when you let her out?). More exercise can only help like usual and if you're worried, keep up the webcam action and watch for improvements. If it goes waaay downhill, then it may be SA, but if it stays the same, I would try things like playing music, covering the crate, taking away toys/food that make her excitable, etc. before I give up on it. I'm adding in another walk, immediately after I get up, to give her some more exercise. And I think I did push it - before yesterday and today, the max she's been alone while I've been out of the house is about fifteen minutes. So we'll start at me being gone for about ten minutes and go from there, starting tomorrow if it's nice! I did have music on and the blanket half over the crate... not sure if either of those helped or not. The blanket I forgot to take off, hence her biting it, and the music is something I usually have on if I'm indoors so I dunno. I'll definitely try a few things! Kiri koli posted:Okay, so here's the weird part. I've been walking her without the harness for a week and I swear to god she's calmer now. We gone on a couple long walks with just the flat and she hasn't barked at anyone. Now that isn't completely unusual because we haven't had a close encounter with a dog yet and she wouldn't bark at anyone on her head collar either since we moved. The head collar is definitely a source of stress though and you can tell she's subdued on it. On the flat, she's excited and yet calm. So it's possible, maybe, that her harness has become a source of stress, even though until just this week, she was wearing it like basically all the time. This could definitely be a Thing. Jess absolutely hates her halti, but it's much easier to manage her with. Maybe the harness pinches a little, or she doesn't like the sensation of it anymore? If it's annoying her, that could definitely be adding to her stress when she sees a trigger, and making her react more than she usually would. --- Apparently good news abounds today, after the crate fiasco  Saw a loose dog at the park (a labrador cross; Lola hates labradors), and after a firm 'leave it' after I put her ball away she only grumbled at him once, a quick air-snap when I was sat down looking at his tag and he tried to shove his head into my bag where her ball was. She also politely greeted a jack russell we've seen a couple of times--but I've never let her greet--and although she did growl at a man with his staffie and border collie, the staffie was leaning into its lead and staring intently at her, and/so I wouldn't let her go greet.She avoided the girl who stopped to help me, but didn't growl at her when the girl tried to stroke her before I could say (she just moved away and watched her), and then she happily walked off-lead down a couple of streets to the dog's house, walking right next to this strange dog and strange girl. And then afterwards, she let the dog's owner hug me (as thanks for bringing back her loose dawg) without freaking out, even though she was only a couple feet away (she was on her 5' leash and it was slack), then went and played nicely with her brother and the JRTs he lives with that we happened to see after. The female JRT tried to start something and she was more than happy to have a go back, but she was easily called off and she played chasing games with them all after. I think I ought to go back to putting her ball away when we see other dogs at the park, if there's going to be a danger/requirement for interaction (at least while we work on her being good on-lead). Because she was good with dogs, then got resource guard'y with her ball, then just turned into a general dick with dogs unless there was a familiar dog present, and now she's just... I don't even know 
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Aug 12, 2011 19:59
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Fraction posted:This could definitely be a Thing. Jess absolutely hates her halti, but it's much easier to manage her with. Maybe the harness pinches a little, or she doesn't like the sensation of it anymore? If it's annoying her, that could definitely be adding to her stress when she sees a trigger, and making her react more than she usually would. Well, I feel a little vindicated. We just had the best class we ever had. Psyche only had two outburst the entire hour and more importantly we spent 95% of the time in open view of other dogs. One woman kept walking her dog within four feet of us (she should have known better, she knows us) and by the end of the class Psyche was completely ignoring the other dog to focus on other things going on. And there was a LOT going on. It was the most chaotic class we've had because all the dogs were doing so good, they had us walking them around the room, practicing leave-it by throwing food in front of them as we walked AND had the assistants walking around the room using power drills, squeaking toys, and throwing things on the floor. It was crazy. There were so many things, I think Psyche just got confused and gave up trying to figure out what to be upset at. It was good though. A general proofing exercise that all dogs could benefit from. Lessons of the day: I shouldn't have ignored my dog when she let me know she didn't like the harness anymore. Taking off work to give my dog a fun, long walk before puppy class = totally worth having to work sometime this weekend and my dog has no problem with power drills, but there is a toy out there she wants so bad she will ignore a dog almost walking up to her face (it was someone else's, and I didn't get a chance to ask about it).
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Aug 13, 2011 02:00
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Hi dog wizards! I have a little problem with my dog growling at people. Background: About a week ago my boyfriend and I adopted a 1.5-year-old, 45-pound lab/pit bull mix named Trudy. No idea what her history is before she was found on the street. She's extremely sweet with us (maybe a little clingy), very quiet, loves to play, and has already learned a few tricks. However, she's fearful of sudden noises and movements, such as doors opening and closing (unless we're the ones doing the opening and closing). She will also bark or growl at sounds in our apartment building. But the main thing I'm concerned about is that she sometimes growls at people. For the first several days we had her there was no problem, then: Wednesday: We bring her to our office (we're grad students) to get her accustomed to going to new places. On the way there, we pass the door to a building and while we're right next to it, someone opens the door and comes out. Trudy jumps three feet in the air and barks. About five minutes later we arrive at the office. After sniffing around for a minute, Trudy suddenly starts growling at our coworker for no apparent reason (the coworker wasn't touching her, just standing there). This person had been to our apartment for several hours on a previous day without incident. Thursday: I bring her to the office again and she meets two new people without any growling. Friday: I bring her to the office once again and she is fine at first. The coworker from Wednesday gives her a treat, Trudy doesn't growl at her. Then she hears the outer door open and close and immediately starts growling. One of my advisors (oh crap!!) walks into the room and Trudy growls at her for quite a long time. We leave and go back to my apartment building, and Trudy growls at a person blocking our way in the stairwell. When she's growling her teeth aren't bared, and to me it doesn't look like she's about to lunge at anyone. But I don't want to become known as the girl with the aggressive dog, especially since she's part pit bull. My immediate instinct has been to say "no" or "shhhh" when she growls, which is probably the wrong thing to do. In between growls I've also been petting her to try to calm her down--is that a no-no? Yesterday evening we brought her to the office after hours and I had my boyfriend walk in and out of the door while I gave Trudy treats, but I think she was more concerned with where he was going than with the door. Is there anything else we can do, other than keep bringing her to new places to get acclimated?
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Aug 13, 2011 14:45
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Silent Linguist posted:Hi dog wizards! I have a little problem with my dog growling at people. You are definitely correct in that you don't want to suppress your dog's growling. Growling is her way of telling you that she is uncomfortable and if you suppress it, then you will force your dog to resort to more drastic measures when the time comes when she is confronted with something really scary. So at this point, since you've only had the dog a week, you don't know if her anxiety comes from her background or if she is just anxious about her new environment (very likely, even if she has a background too) and will slowly work herself out of it with some time. Either way, I wouldn't push the dog at this point. Don't bring her to the office for long periods of time where you can't be paying attention to her the whole time. You've identified so far that her triggers are doors opening and people coming out of nowhere. So when these things happen, even if she growls, give her a treat! This is called counter-conditioning and the goal is to change your dog's attitude toward things that are upsetting by associating it with something yummy. Watch closely and see if you can identify more triggers. Does she growl more at men? People with hats or big feet? Then you can also counter-condition these things, or ask your coworkers who are scary to just ignore her and drop treats every once in a while while she adjusts. Keep in mind that your attitude will affect your dog. So don't let yourself start tensing up when you see a person you're worried your dog might growl at. Keep your attitude positive and work on training fun commands with your dog to build a bond and increase your dog's confidence. Another good thing for anxious dogs is providing them an avenue of retreat. This can mean distance or a safe place. So for barking/growling at home, you can work on teaching her to go to a mat where good things happen and over time it will become a safe place. If you work on this at home and after some counter-conditioning at the office, I imagine you could give her a mat under your desk too (or whatever her favorite spot is) where she can retreat when people are coming in and out of your office. Lastly, don't worry too much about what people might think. Let them know that your dog is a bit fearful and that you're working on it. Also, I would ask them if they want to help out a bit and if they are amiable to it, then I would tell them that, if she growls, they should wait until she has stopped (even the tiniest stop while she munches on a treat you gave her) before they walk away (or just go about their business). Fearful dogs learn quickly that acting fearful is good when their actions cause people to leave.
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Aug 13, 2011 15:33
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Ugh, why does Major need have so many problems? He was playing ball yesterday, made a sharp turn and started yelping and limping but walked it off and seemed fine within minutes. Later that night he was digging on the couch cushion and his leg slipped and he started yelping again. He was pretty upset but didn't limp and just avoided the couch for the rest of the night. This morning he seemed fine while walking but when he tried to run around off leash he wouldn't put his weight on that leg and skipped around instead. He also won't use it to get up stairs or onto to the horrible couch of betrayal. I was getting all prepped to be able to take him to the vet this month after almost 8 months of working on his travel anxiety and I feel like we're about 2 weeks away from being able to travel there comfortably. We are regularly traveling 15-20 minutes away and back but the vet's office is 30 minutes. If his leg isn't better after a weekend of rest I'm going to have to take him in and just deal with the fallout later. His shrink sent in an emergency script for clonidine which should knock him out enough that we won't have to go back to pulling in and out of the driveway for two more months. In better news I think his zoloft is fully kicked in now and its making him so much better. A big male black lab was running around our property and instead of charging the fence and screaming hysterically, Major sat excitedly, waggled his nub, and started barking (a happy/excited bark) at me to open the gate so he could go visit. I didn't, but he got a bunch of treats instead and the dog ran off. He also shared popcorn nicely with my parent's corgi and didn't growl or even flick an ear at her stealing pieces right out from under his nose, he just looked to me for his reward. What a good boy I can't believe how far he's come in the year since I adopted him.
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Aug 13, 2011 19:35
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Kiri koli posted:Lessons of the day: I shouldn't have ignored my dog when she let me know she didn't like the harness anymore. Way to go Psyche and Kiri  Is there some sort of... thing... about how dogs react to boxers? Lola has been really really good with strange dogs today (greeted two pretty much perfectly, even after aiding drat Jess in going after one), but when we saw a boxer this evening she went crazy - and at a much, much bigger distance than she'd usually react. Like about 20x the distance, and she had her ball with her and even barked through that. The last and only other time she saw a boxer, she started alarm-barking furiously at a huge distance also. Her usual barks at dogs are only once or twice, but both times upon seeing boxers she gives alarm barks more similar to when someone comes to the door, but louder and slightly deeper in pitch. What gives? I'm totally confused as to why she reacts to weirdly to 'em.
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Aug 13, 2011 21:15
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Fraction posted:Way to go Psyche and Kiri Maybe Lola remembers a time a boxer looked at her funny, maybe she just has some unknown thing against them. It happens and it's usually more noticeable when a dog hates all big dogs or all people wearing hats, but sometimes they just take exception to things and you can't figure out why. Psyche has always seemed to hate all dogs equally until a big shaggy black dog entered our class. He's a real cutie and they never had a direct interaction, but she decided she hated him and wouldn't tolerate him as close as she would tolerate the other dogs. We decided it was because she didn't like competition for Fluffiest Dog in Class. Instant Jellyfish, poor Major. I hope he's okay and that you get him to the vet without incident. It's great that he's come so far. We're at a year with Psyche at the end of the month too and it's fun thinking back to see how far she's gotten.
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Aug 13, 2011 21:37
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Fraction posted:Way to go Psyche and Kiri Asa hates boxers as well, but this is as a result of the community I live in having several really lovely BYB'ers of Boxers, and tons of people with high-energy no-training rear end in a top hat dogs who are absolute little shitheads at the dog park. I also now hate boxers because of this. gently caress boxers, is basically what I'm saying.
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Aug 13, 2011 23:19
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Instant Jellyfish posted:Ugh, why does Major need have so many problems? He was playing ball yesterday, made a sharp turn and started yelping and limping but walked it off and seemed fine within minutes. It didn't turn out as bad as Major's incident, but it reminds me of my dog racing around the other day, chasing another dog and having a great time, until she tried to corner too sharp and slipped, couldn't recover, and fell, started cartwheeling across the grass  She was fine, just stood up and was like "hmm ok I'm just gonna sit here and pretend nothing happened". As for Boxers, I think they can be kinda big and doofy and that intimates some dogs.
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Aug 14, 2011 00:17
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Levitate posted:It didn't turn out as bad as Major's incident, but it reminds me of my dog racing around the other day, chasing another dog and having a great time, until she tried to corner too sharp and slipped, couldn't recover, and fell, started cartwheeling across the grass Haha, Major is super stoned on clonidine right now and keeps running in to things and trying to look like he totally meant to do it. I think his dosage is a bit too high but it did help him not be stressed at all on our practice drive today and he doesn't even care that there's a big dinner party going on outside. Oh stoner dog  Boxers tend to be very lively, bouncy dogs which could be really overwhelming to shy or reactive dogs. Some breeds are just funny like that. For some reason golden retrievers must have a "hump me" sign on them because they were always the favorites when I worked at dog day care.
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Aug 14, 2011 00:23
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Some dogs just have breed preferences. The dogs who seem most commonly on the Hate List seem to be Boxers, Huskies and great big happy Goldens or Labs. They can be a lot for some dogs to handle. Cohen loves Huskies and really dislikes Old English Sheepdogs, Airedale Terriers and Giant Schnauzers. Each dislike I can track back to a bad experience she had as a pup that she's generalized. She's also an rear end in a top hat to Goldens but I think that's just because she's a douche.
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Aug 14, 2011 01:35
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Yeah, Greta is actually pretty cool with boxers, I think because she had a friend in puppy class that she liked to play with who was a boxer. I think she mainly just likes dogs that will play chase without really trying to "catch" her (not bumping or snapping at her if they catch her). Otherwise she's happy. Not a huge fan of big dogs, I think because some were assholes to her at the park when she was young, but still kinda depends on the dog. There's an irish setter that's a lot bigger than her that she loves to chase aggressively because it doesn't care For the most part though she doesn't care a lot about other dogs unless they want to play chase
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Aug 14, 2011 01:57
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My Wife and I just got a 6 month old Cockapoo, and boy is it adorable. Is there anything specific to these breeds as far as house training and crate training? We know the crate training basics, but are a little lost with the house training. He only had one small accident so far in the 6 hours we've had him. Once we were out back and he calmed down, he peed and pooped no problem. Do we still take him out like every 20 minutes until he gets the idea? He doesn't seem to like the crate very much. We've been putting him in it for 25-30 min intervals, and he absolutely loses his mind when he's in there. Should I put the crate in our bedroom at night? epic Kingdom Hearts LP fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Aug 14, 2011 |
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Aug 14, 2011 03:15
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Hi y'all. A month ago I adopted a mix from a shelter. He's probably part beagle, and he's now around four months old. I'm trying to train him basic commands, but I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong because he's only motivated if he sees me pick up the clicker. Here's how he's doing: - Sit: can do 90% of the time, unless there's a new person in the room. - Go to Bed: 90% of the time. - Lay Down: 50% of the time, only with a treat in my hand. - Box: (the word we're using for kennel) he can work up to this one, if it's clear that he's not actually going to be shut in his box. He really dislikes his kennel, and he's not even in it for all that long each day. He's kenneled at night and if we have to be out of the house, like for the four hours I work each day. How can you motivate a dog to listen to you if there are no treats involved? He also gets frustrated and quits listening if I don't treat him after every trick.
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Aug 14, 2011 03:34
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Betazoid posted:Hi y'all. A month ago I adopted a mix from a shelter. He's probably part beagle, and he's now around four months old. I'm trying to train him basic commands, but I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong because he's only motivated if he sees me pick up the clicker. "get out", you should should read the puppy megathread. Sounds like you haven't introduced the crate properly. If he already has a negative association with it your work is going to be harder, but if you start right away he will adjust. As for letting him out every 20 minutes, yes and no. Keep him on a short leash (literally) at all times and watch him like a hawk. If he's sniffing around, circling, giving any sort of cues that he's about to go you need to grab his attention and lead him outside. When he goes, throw a praise party, get him excited and happy, he did a good thing yaaayyy! e: Correction, use the hand signal, but not the word yet if he's less than 90% reliable Damn Bananas fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Aug 15, 2011 |
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Aug 14, 2011 06:08
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