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Lucania posted:Josh explained it that way: I think Toby and Josh are outside each other's CoC but there are times where Leo loans Josh to Toby for some task. I was just watching one the other day where Josh is tasked to determine if s Puerto Rican dude should be given a stamp. It does also show in that episode how little Sorkin understands the protectorate Vs. statehood debate.
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Aug 11, 2011 01:32
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kissyboots13 posted:I pretty much stopped watching after season 4--is the rest of the series worth it? I'm just over halfway through watching season 5 for the first time, I don't really see why it has such a bad reputation around here, I've been mostly enjoying it. I kind of tuned out during Disaster Relief and Abu El Banat, but I've liked the rest of what I've seen.
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Aug 11, 2011 01:36
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Mu Zeta posted:I wonder if they purposefully hired sitcom actors to put them in serious roles. The mom from Home Improvement, Jimmy James from Newsradio, and the dad from Boy Meets World. They all got into the roles really well and I completely forgot about their older shows. John Goodman and Ed O'Neil as someone else mentioned too. I think it's more that the show had a lot of cachet back then and roles like that are viewed as vehicles to get past typecasting.
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Aug 11, 2011 01:41
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kissyboots13 posted:I love Bartlet, and I kind of want him to be my grandpa, and this is pretty much the reason why. He is such an INSANE nerd--the Butterball hotline scene mentioned higher up on the page is one of my favorite scenes of any TV show ever.
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Aug 11, 2011 01:49
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I think a lot of the criticism of Season 5 and 6 is that they end and start, respectively, with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict story and there's just no way you can make that interesting on network TV without pissing off a huge amount of people. They have to completely ditch the quirkiness and jokes and since it's I/P you know it's going to drag on and on and it won't go anywhere. Watching it now, it's like the cast is biting their tongues for seven straight hours.
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Aug 11, 2011 02:10
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Popo posted:@t3ch3; I guess what I meant was "How did Toby get to be on Leo's radar?" He'd won no races at that point and had caused one of his candidates to faint. It doesn't matter and is likely "They just met and some point and Toby impressed Leo" but it's just one of those things I like to wonder about from time to time. Bartlet was running a no hope favorite son campaign in New Hampshire just to make some policy speeches; the only person who thought he could win was Leo. All of the top tier Democratic talent was either with Hoynes or sitting it out. The people that would be staffing a campaign like that would be friends of the candidate or ideological true believers, Toby being the latter.
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Aug 11, 2011 04:23
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Is there any explanation of why the look of the show changes? Is it just due to all the shakeup with Sorkin leaving and the other EP leaving (Schlamme?) or new directors or what? I first noticed it in S3's "game on" (the debate episode), it turns into some weird shaky-cam close-up fest. Actually I can't remember if it happens for the rest of the series or not but I know it happens in the whole kidnapping and then the shutdown episodes. Maybe I'm the only who notices/cares?
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Aug 11, 2011 05:02
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It just changes as the style on TV has changed. I don't think there's anything specific about it.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:08
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myron_cope posted:Is there any explanation of why the look of the show changes? Is it just due to all the shakeup with Sorkin leaving and the other EP leaving (Schlamme?) or new directors or what? I first noticed it in S3's "game on" (the debate episode), it turns into some weird shaky-cam close-up fest. Actually I can't remember if it happens for the rest of the series or not but I know it happens in the whole kidnapping and then the shutdown episodes. Maybe I'm the only who notices/cares? Keep in mind that for "Game On", Sorkin and Schlamme were both still there. They left after season 4.
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Aug 11, 2011 14:19
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Mu Zeta posted:I wonder if they purposefully hired sitcom actors to put them in serious roles. The mom from Home Improvement, Jimmy James from Newsradio, and the dad from Boy Meets World. They all got into the roles really well and I completely forgot about their older shows. Not to mention Stephen Root (aka Gordon from Dodgeball, Milton from Office Space, and Bill from King of the Hill)
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Aug 11, 2011 14:34
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Alter Ego posted:Not to mention Stephen Root (aka Gordon from Dodgeball, Milton from Office Space, and Bill from King of the Hill) That's Jimmy James from Newsradio in the post you quoted.
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Aug 11, 2011 14:36
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bobkatt013 posted:you forgot Al Bundy Oh my God I never connected that. Mind is blown.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:34
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I unabashedly love this show. If I was American (Slightly retarded) I would have voted for Jed in a heartbeat. I say would, rather than will, because of his willingness to execute a person who has never been tried or convicted soured me. Ignoring that disgusting moment, he seems to be a leader I could vote for, it is a shame that someone like him will never be in the Whitehouse.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:40
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thrawn527 posted:Keep in mind that for "Game On", Sorkin and Schlamme were both still there. They left after season 4. Yeah, and I'm watching the kidnapping episode now, which is at the end of season 4, and I see it. (I also think Game On was season 4). It just disorients me I guess. I spend more time thinking "why the gently caress is there shaky cam god this is annoying" than focusing on what is actually going on.
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Aug 11, 2011 22:49
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Skyworks posted:Ignoring that disgusting moment, he seems to be a leader I could vote for, it is a shame that someone like him will never be in the Whitehouse. I can't help thinking that as well, particularly with how hosed up this country is right now. Not even just Jed as a president, but the way all the branches of government work on West Wing seems so much...cleaner, maybe, then things are in reality, particularly lately. Our political system just seems so broken compared to how it is portrayed on the show. Sure, the legislative branch is always trying to hold the White House hostage and there's a lot of back-door politics, but compared to the cluster-gently caress going on right now?
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Aug 13, 2011 22:48
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t3ch3 posted:Also, they should have made Edandlarry the Press Secretar(ies) after CJ's promotion. Have them both up at the podium doing fact-heavy briefings. "Where did you get this?" "I swear to God? Encyclopedia Britannica"
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Aug 13, 2011 23:30
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The most powerful line of the series, you say? "Your father used to hit you, didn't he Mr. President?" Toby actually has the balls to say that 
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Aug 14, 2011 15:20
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"I'm thinking about getting a dog. Golden Retriever"
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Aug 14, 2011 17:39
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brylcreem posted:The most powerful line of the series, you say? That scene always makes me so loving uncomfortable.
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Aug 14, 2011 22:46
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This is one of those shows/albums/movies/books where if I found out someone doesn't like it, my opinion of them changes. So amazingly good - I don't have a lot to add beyond that, I just want to dogpile on the lovefest.
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Aug 15, 2011 01:08
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The ending of "Gone Quiet" is one of the best in the entire series. Nothing beats taking one of the most consistently dramatic shows on television and ending the episode with the dramatic equivalent of a wet fart. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF4SERl3uE0 (I had to make this clip myself  )
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Aug 15, 2011 16:49
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OSheaman posted:The ending of "Gone Quiet" is one of the best in the entire series. Nothing beats taking one of the most consistently dramatic shows on television and ending the episode with the dramatic equivalent of a wet fart. I have to say, though--all the exchanges between Albie Duncan and Bartlet are great. The best one is where Leo and Duncan are talking about Vietnam and all of a sudden we hear a banging noise. The camera pans up to show the President banging his head against the desk. He looks up and goes "Oh, my gracious...am I still here?"
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Aug 15, 2011 19:45
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Was Rob Lowe's exit planned from the end of S3/beginning of S4? Because it both seems planned and unplanned--like they make Will the deputy communications director and say they'll bump up Sam, then we don't really hear from him again...I guess the actual election episode is after they make Will the deputy? But still he just vanishes without another mention. And I guess I'm wondering if there is an article anywhere about Sorkin's departure? (or if somebody wants to explain it I guess) I only watched the series a few years ago after seeing the box set on amazon and thinking "hey I've heard good things about this, I bet I'd like it"
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Aug 16, 2011 19:26
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In his autobiography Lowe doesn't go into a great amount of detail. He does say he was very badly lied to at the start of the series about how the show was going to pan out, i.e. more focus on him and guest appearances by Sheen etc. As everyone knows the feedback on Sheen's end of episode appearance came in and the rest is history. He also said some of the stories that were going to him ended up with Josh and others and by the end of the 3rd season he had had enough. Originally he was the highest paid but not at the amount that was publicised and allegedly believed by his co-stars who he seems to hint were actually getting paid more than him by the time he quit. That's only his side though and he isn't very detailed at all so *shrug*. I'd love to read a decent book on The West Wing with the proper behind the scenes stuff in it, I've got a great DS9 book that goes through every season and episode in decent detail and a WW version that wasn't the usual fluff and nonsense would be an instant buy for me.
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Aug 16, 2011 19:36
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myron_cope posted:And I guess I'm wondering if there is an article anywhere about Sorkin's departure? (or if somebody wants to explain it I guess) I only watched the series a few years ago after seeing the box set on amazon and thinking "hey I've heard good things about this, I bet I'd like it"
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Aug 16, 2011 19:39
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He was in and out of rehab and then wrote his last season before he left from what I remember. He also couldn't deliver scripts on time and couldnt let go of the controls. He was also best friends with the other executive producers and still is.
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Aug 16, 2011 20:19
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Ah, I thought the cocaine stuff was pre-WW. edit: And I'd heard the stuff about Lowe being the "star" of the show as initially planned and then it becoming more of an ensemble, but I wasn't sure if his actual departure was planned from the start of season 4 or if one day he just said gently caress it and left or something. myron cope fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 16, 2011 |
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Aug 16, 2011 20:28
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myron_cope posted:Ah, I thought the cocaine stuff was pre-WW. He wanted out as the cast negotiated higher salaries but the studio wouldn't budge on his salary. (Allegedly he still made more per episode than anyone else). At the end of the third season, everyone publicly confirmed his leaving during the 4th, and that he would do 16 episodes of that season arc. So they knew through hiatus and during the 4th season exactly how long Sam was gonna stick around. To his credit, Rob is the kind of actor who LOVES his characters. He loves Sam Seaborn and talks about him affectionately all the time.
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Aug 16, 2011 21:01
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Remember The Lyon's Den? Hahahaha, me neither, thanks Rob.
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Aug 17, 2011 02:45
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OSheaman posted:Remember The Lyon's Den? Hahahaha, me neither, thanks Rob. He turned down McDreamy on Greys Anatomy.
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Aug 17, 2011 02:54
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myron_cope posted:Ah, I thought the cocaine stuff was pre-WW. Also, I'm clearly a better character than Sam. 
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Aug 17, 2011 03:08
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I like the episode where Josh acts exhausted while the rest of the staff looks well rested.
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Aug 17, 2011 03:18
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Josh Lyman posted:My understanding is that Sam was supposed to be the star of the show, but Bartlett had a better reception, and so the showrunners did something you rarely see - they reacted and started focusing things around Bartlett. Go back to the Television without pity like forum.
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Aug 17, 2011 03:19
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ufarn posted:He got caught doing cocaine, got a divorce, (not necessarily in that order), couldn't deliver the scripts on time, as I recall. He also believes his firing had to do with his defending Bill Maher's comments about the 9/11 hijackers not being cowards. Seriously it's not the best but Studio 60 is worth at least one watch for WW fans. It's basically Sorkin's personal ego trip through his television career.
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Aug 17, 2011 04:07
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Studio 60 shows that Sorkin can hold a grudge for a long time.
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Aug 17, 2011 04:18
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Mu Zeta posted:Studio 60 shows that Sorkin can hold a grudge for a long time. Clearly it should have gone on for half a decade or more, but those drat dirty viewers wouldn't tune in.
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Aug 17, 2011 09:24
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Mu Zeta posted:Studio 60 shows that Sorkin can hold a grudge for a long time.
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Aug 17, 2011 09:28
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Matthew Perry is Sorkin, the female lead is Kristen Chenoweth. edit: also below. Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Aug 17, 2011 |
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Aug 17, 2011 09:34
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The grudge refers to the "Ricky Tahoe" character in Studio 60 being a not too subtle reference to West Wing writer Rick Cleveland. Full back story here: http://bitchkittie.blogspot.com/2006/02/long-back-story-of-aaron-sorkin-west.html
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Aug 17, 2011 09:42
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Josh Lyman posted:My understanding is that Sam was supposed to be the star of the show, but Bartlett had a better reception, and so the showrunners did something you rarely see - they reacted and started focusing things around Bartlett. Josh, you sleep in a dumpster last night?
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Aug 17, 2011 13:25
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