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get out posted:My Wife and I just got a 6 month old Fixed that for ya! Nothing specific to the breeds. Being a small breed dog the bladder is a bit smaller. I would probably take him out every hour (I don't want to spend my entire day waiting for the pup to pee) and then tethered/under direct supervision or in his crate at other times. Having potty breaks at regular intervals will likely help the process. Where you keep the crate is a personal preference. I had mine in my bedroom for the first few months then put it downstairs and my dog was fine. It sounds like you're rushing crate training and not being properly diligent in ensuring your dog loves his crate. Watch this video for some help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Gb-TF9c9U You don't want to force your dog in the crate any more than you absolutely have to before he's ready. The key to making your dog enjoy (or at least tolerate) his crate is to shape it -- that basically means that everything he does with/in the crate is his idea. He's not being forced out of his comfort zone, and all experiences with it are positive and full of rewards. Betazoid posted:Hi y'all. A month ago I adopted a mix from a shelter. He's probably part beagle, and he's now around four months old. I'm trying to train him basic commands, but I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong because he's only motivated if he sees me pick up the clicker. So you're having trouble fading the treats for your FOUR MONTH OLD pup? Too much too soon! It's loving awesome that he's motivated if he sees you with the clicker. That's brilliant. My behaviourist I work with advises people to wear kibble for the first two years of the dog's life. What this means is to always keep food on your person or within easy reach stashed throughout the house. This means that if your pup does something you agree with you can reach out and out of nowhere present your dog with a reward. Your dog will never be sure where a training session ends and real life begins. Plus it has the added bonus of desensitizing your pup to you having food in your pockets -- it just becomes standard, so you don't run into problems with your dog mobbing you for treats. There's a difference between a bribe and a reward. If your pup won't do things unless he's sure there's something in it for him you're probably not differentiating between the two. Rewards should be kept out of sight and presented only upon the completion of good behaviour. Bribes are waved in front of the pup's face to elicit a behaviour. Rewards can be decreased as the pup matures and understands what is expected of him. You can't do the same thing with bribes. With Lay Down, it seems to me that your pup hasn't figured it out yet. Keep luring him down. When he's following that all the time start pretending you have some food in your hand and use the same gesture. When the pup is down then bring out the reward from your pocket (quickly! timing is important) and reward while he's still laying down. When he's following an empty hand all the time start adding your verbal cue. Finally, your pup is super young. I wouldn't worry too much about fading reinforcement for behaviours quite yet. If you do opt to reduce food, step up the life rewards (super happy praise or play after a sit, for example). Don't worry about fading it for at least another few months. Just work on providing rewards and wearing kibble, as opposed to bribing. Oh, and with the crate issues, watch the link I mentioned to the poster above you.
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Aug 14, 2011 14:20
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another thing you can do with sit/down/etc is Nothing In Life is Free (NILF) - anything your puppy wants (like food, going outside, a toy, sitting on the couch, etc) make him sit/down first (we also do shake/ touch). It teaches him that he can't just get whatever he wants whenever he wants- he has to work for it- AND it reinforces the idea that tricks/ doing what you say = get good stuff, even when there isn't a clicker around.
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Aug 14, 2011 14:52
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Skizzles posted:Geez. I don't really have any advice yet, but I'm pretty curious to see a picture of this dog. I promise I'm not trying to be off-topic, I just wanna see what we're working with here. Sorry for the delay in responding here! But here is the little trouble maker. Her tail is normally much curlier.   I guess I panicked a bit with the earlier post, as she's actually doing much better now! I tried out some of that relaxation training Ricatrix posted and I dunno if it was that or the fact we added another walk each day, but she's finally calmed down a bit. Still gets rather mouthy and spazzy when she's right out of her crate, but not as bad. A bit of NILIF has helped too. (I also found she LOVES flirt pole. She'll just chase it in circles for hours if I let her.) Next hurdle is the chewing problem. She loves to chew things she shouldn't... I'm not sure if it'd be easier to train her not to, or train my idiot brothers to not leave poo poo on the floor where she can get it. Neither seems very feasible. (She's tethered to one of us if she's out, but she's sneaky and will start chewing the rug or a nearby extension cord even with several dog toys to choose from!) I have some ideas to fix this (removing temptation, bitter spray, rotating her chews to prevent boredom...) but it mainly just confuses me. Isn't a bully stick tastier than a piece of plastic? 
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Aug 14, 2011 19:57
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My dog is training my other dog.
Eifert Posting fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Aug 15, 2011 |
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Aug 15, 2011 03:46
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a life less posted:So you're having trouble fading the treats for your FOUR MONTH OLD pup? Too much too soon! It's loving awesome that he's motivated if he sees you with the clicker. That's brilliant. Thank you for the assistance, a life less and drat bananas. He is really smart (I promise I'm not just being a proud mom here).  I've lived with dogs before, and playing with this little guy is actually different. He also reads body language better than a lot of dogs I've known, which is nice and also creepy sometimes.About the wearing treats: Are you suggesting a fanny pack? Please don't make me wear a fanny pack. 
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Aug 15, 2011 05:25
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Betazoid posted:About the wearing treats: Are you suggesting a fanny pack? Please don't make me wear a fanny pack. I have a fanny pack!  they actually aren't that bad when you think of them as just a training tool.And thanks everyone for the boxer/breed bias stuff. I noticed yesterday that Lola was weirder out by and alarm barked at a really heavily breathing spaniel - similar to how the boxer breathed loudly and heavily. Maybe she hates obese dogs too 
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Aug 15, 2011 08:18
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Betazoid posted:About the wearing treats: Are you suggesting a fanny pack? Please don't make me wear a fanny pack. I have a treat pouch that I use for training sessions. It looks kind of like a rock climber's chalk bag that I wear off to the side -- it's not the greatest fashion statement in the world, but it's not that bad. The ease of access is important. For just hanging around the house I find pockets + ziploc bags are best.
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Aug 15, 2011 12:49
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a life less posted:I have a treat pouch that I use for training sessions. It looks kind of like a rock climber's chalk bag that I wear off to the side -- it's not the greatest fashion statement in the world, but it's not that bad. The ease of access is important. For just hanging around the house I find pockets + ziploc bags are best. I actually won one of these things in a raffle a few months ago. It's kinda cheap feeling, but it's held up so far, and all I have to do is squeeze it and a treat pops out into my hand. It's been really convenient for walks.
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Aug 15, 2011 13:22
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Major's leg is doing better so we didn't have to rush to the vet today, but we ended going anyway for a "happy visit" since he's doing so well on the clonidine. I want to take him in for a real visit by the end of the week but I figured going in for cookies a couple of times can only be a good thing. I was so proud of how well he did! The vet's office was more crowded than I expected and there was a kid there that Major gave the hairy eyeball to but it was a well trained kid and stayed away and I distracted Major with some hot dog and he soon forgot all about him. Later, an older woman was giving Maj some treats and suddenly bent down to kiss his snout and I nearly had a heart attack thinking we were going to relive the grandma biting incident but he just sniffed her and took the cookie then wandered off to sit on his favorite vet tech. Then as we were leaving someone was walking out carrying a super obese rat terrier and I was worried Major was going to jump at them because he's usually uncomfortable with people carrying dogs/small people but he barely glanced at them. Everyone told him how good and handsome he was and couldn't believe that he came from the pound. I feel a little bad that he needs to be stoned out of his doggy mind to do so well, but the meds are helping him feel better, keeping him and the public safer and the more positive experiences he has on the meds the less he will need them in the long run.
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Aug 15, 2011 22:45
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Betazoid posted:About the wearing treats: Are you suggesting a fanny pack? Please don't make me wear a fanny pack. What my friend did was get one of those half aprons from The Home Depot and used that for storing treats for easy access during CGC training since the pockets were right there and easy to get to.
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Aug 15, 2011 22:59
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I've been trying to teach Psyche to hold something in her mouth just as a fun exercise so we do some shaping everyday. She's definitely not a natural; I've never seen her parade around with something in her mouth. When she fetches, she usually drops it a couple times, though that might just be because she's soooo excited and short so she trips over whatever she's carrying. When she plays otherwise, she'll hold things in her paws and mouth them. So I started with getting her to nose a toy and then with an open mouth and finally to put her mouth around it. But she won't hold on. She's gotten the idea that when I hold it out to her, I want her to take it in her mouth and then throw it to the side. She does it with gusto and it's super cute, but not what I want. I've tried sneaking in the click before she drops it (she drops it when I click anyway so that's maybe not the best idea) and I've tried holding onto it on my end so that she can't just throw it away. She pretty much just puts her mouth on it and then lets it go if I don't click that split second. Just curious if anyone has any suggestions. I'm not worried about it and it's only been a couple sessions, so she just might need some more time. I wish she was a natural holder though. I've heard a lot of people say that reactive dogs who like holding things can use that to help get through situations.
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Aug 16, 2011 00:13
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Kiri koli posted:dog won't hold things Haha I was in the process of typing out a long post with this exact same issue right down to the adorable throw. Your explained it way better than I did. Garp why won't you hold things 
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Aug 16, 2011 02:35
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Kiri koli posted:I've been trying to teach Psyche to hold something in her mouth just as a fun exercise so we do some shaping everyday. A trainer with whom I've recently fallen in love had several videos posted to her facebook of her shaping a dog to retrieve. It was in response to a conversation that was happening in a facebook training community where a large number of comp OB trainers train the retrieve with the ear-pinch method. The dog she's using is definitely not a natural retriever -- I think you'd probably get something out of them. For instance, when she's presenting an object for nosing/touching/grabbing she'll take it away if she doesn't get the reaction she wanted. She'll praise for some degree of interaction, but will still reset if the dog isn't performing on the level of which the dog is capable. Here are the videos: I think each one is a day of training, and training happens in one minute stints five or six times a day. Nice and short! Day One Day Two Day Three I'm sure more videos will be posted as the days continue. I think seeing it in action is helpful. A lot of it really depends on your dog. Fenzi is all about ensuring that you go at your dog's pace.
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Aug 16, 2011 03:47
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This is pretty helpful to me too. Shadow is NOT a natural mouther, never has been, so teaching him to grab things would be a little tough. I know he can/will because he's moved limbs and things off of chipmunk burrows to get to them, though. I was watching some of Denise Fenzi's videos with Cisu earlier and just... 
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Aug 16, 2011 04:24
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a life less posted:I think seeing it in action is helpful. A lot of it really depends on your dog. Fenzi is all about ensuring that you go at your dog's pace. Those videos are great! I've been working on a proper retrieve for a while and Major will happily stick his mouth on the bumper and really enjoys it but he doesn't keep his mouth on it. I think moving it around while in his mouth will help solidify that for him. Our other problem is that he would very much like to just take the bumper and wander off to destroy it. This happens when he kills stuff too. He naturally retrieves it to me but then doesn't want me to have it and wanders off. I've been working on doing more interactive play with him and creating value for bringing toys to me to play with but its been slow. Currently if he tries to steal the bumper I just put it away and he's lost his opportunity to play the game but I'm not sure how much that's really helping. I think I might try keeping him on a leash while playing for a couple rounds so that stealing the bumper away isn't even an option.
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Aug 16, 2011 04:35
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If I were to shape a retrieve for obedience at this time, I'd start from the final position ie. would have the dog sit infront of me and would offer the object to him/her while she's there. First clicks for looking, then nose, teeth etc. Working all the way to a point where I can let go of the object and the dog holds it no problem. Then I'd start giving it to him/her closer and closer to the ground and then they'd have to pick it up. I'd keep the finish the same "always", ie. where it needs to be for a formal retrieve. Healy was somewhat used to carrying objects to me and dropping them into my feet before I trained a formal retrieve. Like so (this is January '08):  When we began practising obedience for real in 2009, I started working on retrieve after her mid-March BH test. Therefore she already knew where and how to sit infront of me from our formal recall. That's where I had her sit and I started with cueing "take it" when I held the object and rewarding with a clicker when she did. After a session moved into her having to pick up the dumbbell from the ground with a cue for "take it" and bringing it to me with a cue to "come". For the third day I moved outdoors and on the fourth day I was a bit nasty and shoved the metal object into her mouth and had her keep it there and praised and rewarded her like crazy when she did. Once was enough and she retrieved metal after that. We also did a session indoors where I took the dumbbell to the other end of the room and had her retrieve that. On the fifth day I worked only outdoors as I've pretty much done ever since. She did a formal retrieve in the second session that day. This is Healy on the eight day, which was the first day I got somebody to operate the camera:  I was able to advance this fast, because she's a smart gal and also because she had some foundation behaviours (if you will), when we began working on retrieve. Riiseli fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Aug 16, 2011 |
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Aug 16, 2011 09:10
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Riiseli posted:
That's a really nice front you have there. I slacked with teaching Cohen to front, so now it's pretty messy. Any pointers on how to tidy it up? She's normally maybe a foot in front of me, and can be angled ~45 degrees or more. I've been bad and have started giving an additional hand cue for her to straighten up (sort of an impromptu nose touch) on which I think she's started to rely too heavily. I've been working on making the dumbbell a toy for Cohen. She'll bark excitedly when she sees me take it out, which I'm very excited about. Seeing as how it's the only "toy" you can take into the ring I want to place a large amount of value on it. I play games where I hide it in another room then release Cohen to go find and retrieve it. So far it's working really well.
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Aug 16, 2011 11:34
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a life less posted:That's a really nice front you have there. I slacked with teaching Cohen to front, so now it's pretty messy. Any pointers on how to tidy it up? Healy enjoys the retrieve quite a bit. I used her meals as a big reward to get there. After she had learned the exercise we did it for a while only as a way for her to earn her bowl. She'd do a retrieve or two, if the first one wasn't fast enough, and I'd realease her to her bowl for a super job. Since she's been known to find dumbbells from people's bags, if I'm not paying attention, and bringing them to me during practises. She also gets a wee bit excited whenever I pick a dumbbell up. Her obvious excitement has lessened a bit as she needs to heel while I walk with the dumbbell, but most times she's still jumping of joy in her head, I think.
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Aug 16, 2011 12:58
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a life less posted:A trainer with whom I've recently fallen in love had several videos posted to her facebook of her shaping a dog to retrieve. It was in response to a conversation that was happening in a facebook training community where a large number of comp OB trainers train the retrieve with the ear-pinch method. The dog she's using is definitely not a natural retriever -- I think you'd probably get something out of them. Those videos are awesome. I'm going to try this method with Garp today and see if we get anywhere. I do have a question about the praising for interaction though. With Garp we just go "too bad" if he doesn't do the intended action and wait a few seconds before trying again. Watching Fenzi it looks like she's able to keep the dog's energy up and keep the dog thoroughly engaged with the verbal praise. Is that common? Most of the things I've read and what our trainer has told us is to keep the training light and positive but if you're not getting the intended action just to briefly ignore and try again.
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Aug 16, 2011 15:44
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Bacteriophage posted:Those videos are awesome. I'm going to try this method with Garp today and see if we get anywhere. It depends on the dog. Some dogs are naturally very excitable and with the right treats/toys/attitude, you can easily get them into an enthusiastic frame of mind. I've been reading about agility and it talks about how you want your dog to always respond to training/playtime with a certain level of excitability (not too much, not too little). You can cultivate this with dogs who don't do it naturally. I've been trying to do that with my dog, who only gets super excited when she's in the right mood instead of when I want her to. I think it's pretty common and so far, I find it hard to deal with. My book recommends things like always playing a bit to 'warm up' a training session, using the Premack principle to build value for toys/treats*, stopping a training session before your dog gets bored or wanders off, etc. The book also recommends against using a 'too bad', though other books recommend that you do use that. I've been using it, but I think it is maybe shutting down my dog's drive to offer behaviors rather than getting her to try again, so I might stop. I think this probably depends on the dog and how you went about training the 'too bad'. The ideal state, according to the book, is a dog that is excited and will continue to offer behaviors instead of getting frustrated and giving up. Then ignoring a wrong move works fine because your dog will be enthusiastic about trying again. It's an interesting point of view, I think. As for getting the dog excited with just verbal praise, I think this is highly dependent on the dog and not all dogs will work for praise, nor is it a bad thing if they want to work for treats or toys instead. Use what your dog likes and if you want to raise the value of something else, you need to train that. I'm not sure raising the value of verbal praise for a dog who doesn't care about it to begin with is a worthwhile goal though. *The Premack principle in this case refers to using treats to make toys more excitable for treat-loving dogs or vice-versa for toy-loving dogs.
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Aug 16, 2011 18:08
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Kiri koli posted:The ideal state, according to the book, is a dog that is excited and will continue to offer behaviors instead of getting frustrated and giving up. Then ignoring a wrong move works fine because your dog will be enthusiastic about trying again. It's an interesting point of view, I think.
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Aug 16, 2011 19:27
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Riiseli posted:This is pretty much why I've charged the clicker while playing 101 things to do with a box or something similar. Charging the clicker may take a slightly longer time, but my dogs have learned to offer behaviours and even to be rather enthusiastic about it and have also learned what the clicker means.  Nice. I think I have to put some thought into teaching Pi his formal retrieve. I've worked at Shirley's retrieve since god knows when and I can't get past the step where Pi grabs the dumbell and throws it into the air. I just cannot get him to understand he needs to hold it for a while to get the click. If I try to wait him out, he'll just restlessly start pacing and throwing behaviors at me in hopes of earning the click. When this happens, he stops learning. It's frustrating for both of us, so I'm probably going to try something different.
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Aug 16, 2011 20:09
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So, I think we made progress again at the training class this week. Mouse barked a little in the first half, but midway through the hour it seemed to dawn on her that "hey, these are puppies just like me and I can play with them!!". From that point on when she broke concentration from me she was straining to play with the big doofy lab and little terrier puppy to her left and right, rather than barking suspiciously. She also did great in the exercises again. Pleased with her progress .
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Aug 16, 2011 21:41
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Yay Mouse! I've just been shaping with Lola's dinner since my friend K is here, and Lola was offering firm and confident nose and paw touches to K's hands and legs immediately (K was sat on the chair and we were on the floor). She also offered eye contact with K, and I was perfectly happy until... She leapt onto K's lap. it was only for a split second before she leapt off - but I marked before she jumped off and she got the huge bonus of the rest of her meal given right to her, about half a big handful. So proud of my girl.
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Aug 16, 2011 21:46
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novamute posted:I think some folks with reactive dogs might be helped by what I'm working through now. Update on Lucy! We went in last Friday for our second training session and had all three trainers again which was great since I was expecting only the one. She didn't end up losing it at all this session (and no water squirting either). We stuck to dog dolls again but multiple at a time and trainers making them much more active. She tensed up a lot at first but I've been trying to cue a calm with the word chill and after telling her to chill and distracting with some treats she was able to approach normally and without too much tension. She spent the rest of the session playing nicely and investigating the dolls. Next session (about a week and a half from now) they want to change the environment and if she still does well introduce a calm dog at a distance. I expect both those transitions to be big so we'll see how we do. She's at a pet hotel for this week while I'm out of state and I'm anxious about how she's doing there. The employee I talked to there said they try to let the friendly dogs into small playgroups and I haven't seen how she does off-leash around other dogs yet. I told them about her reactivity and they said they ease dogs into the groups and revert to individual playtime with an employee if the dog doesn't like it so we'll see how she does.
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Aug 17, 2011 00:39
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a life less posted:Here are the videos: I think each one is a day of training, and training happens in one minute stints five or six times a day. Nice and short! Do you have direct links to the rest of the series yet? You need the direct link to view. Also, I'd be really interested to read the debate about forced retrieves on facebook if you didn't mind posting (or sending me) the link? Thanks!
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Aug 18, 2011 01:33
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notsoape posted:Do you have direct links to the rest of the series yet? You need the direct link to view. I don't think she's put up Day Four or beyond yet. She's using a client's dog, so I guess she's restricted by her teaching schedule. Here is the facebook link. Not sure if you have the join the group to see it. Let me know if you're having any trouble.
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Aug 18, 2011 01:49
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So somehow in the last month or two, Greta seems to have gotten more dog reactive and possessive about food, balls, etc. The dog reactivity is mainly her barking at other dogs while she's on the leash, and it's not every dog...she just seems to get wayyyyy overexcited (tail goes really high in the air) and thinks it's the best thing to bark at the other dog. What's the best way to handle this? Try to use treats to distract her and condition her to look to us when she sees other dogs? The food and toy thing...I don't really know, it seems like maybe it came about after she was at a park and some other big doofy dogs kept stealing her tennis balls. We didn't notice the food thing (cuz we don't have another dog) until my wife took her to my in-laws this past week and she reacted with their dogs (whom she knows and has been fine with in the past). It's mainly barking and kind of getting in their face but not super aggressive growling and teeth barring. While we don't have another dog now, is there something we can/should do to help address this? At the very least I don't want this to turn into her defending her food from us, etc. And since it seems to go hand in hand with the tennis ball/toy guarding to some degree, and kind of advice on resource guarding would be useful. In general I think we need to start working on ways to calm her down. Most of the day she's pretty chill, but when evening rolls around, she seems to have issues with getting wound up easily and having trouble calming down. She usually gets an extended playtime at the park (1.5-2 hours) that involves swimming, chasing sticks, retrieving tennis balls, chasing other dogs, and running through the forest, but still seem to have some problems calming down when she gets home. She can absolutely conk out in the car and look exhausted and then we get home and she starts getting wound up. I would say this is usually this is related to our other pets (cat and rabbit) and she just seems to get overstimulated and every little thing gets her too excited. Might also be related to things just being quieter during the day and me being gone, but then I get home and suddenly everyone's home and she's just too excited. So, man, any kind of work on calming her down would be really useful and advice on how to deal with her getting aggressively barkey with other dogs (during play sometimes as well). And it's not really so bad as I might make it sound, she's not completely bonkers and unmanageable or anything, it just seems like it'd be good to work on managing her excitement level. She's also about 1 year old now so I assume part of this is the young rebellious stage
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Aug 18, 2011 02:42
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a life less posted:I don't think she's put up Day Four or beyond yet. She's using a client's dog, so I guess she's restricted by her teaching schedule. That worked great, thanks! Amazing (and unfortunate) to see such outdated methods as the ear pinch in such widespread general use today - and in both hunting and obedience circles, too . At least people are beginning to question it vocally.
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Aug 18, 2011 03:02
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I don't think Shadow understands cues or hand signals so much as he thinks, "OOH if I do that last thing she taught me I should get a treat! No? Okay let me try one more time to make sure! Still no? Okay what about the thing you taught me before that?!" and just go through a couple things before getting it.  You know how sometimes it's hard to work on leash-reactivity because friends aren't really interested in bringing their dog to stand there and help you work on it? I've kinda... considered putting up an ad to be that person. But I just feel awkward putting up an ad basically saying, "Hey you want me and my dog to come stand there for a while for you? GIMME A CALL." I just wanna help people and their dogs, man.
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Aug 18, 2011 03:25
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Levitate posted:At the very least I don't want this to turn into her defending her food from us, etc. Has she actually shown any signs of guarding resources from humans? In my experience, resource guarding is kind of similar to aggression in that dogs can have big issues with guarding from other dogs but be just fine with humans. Of course, other dogs have issues with both species too. Can you call your dog away from resources, ask them to drop/leave them, remove them physically from her mouth, stroke her while she's eating, stick your hand in her food bowl and take it away from her without her reacting? (If you aren't sure, please don't try any of these if you think she's liable to lash out aggressively  )
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Aug 18, 2011 03:36
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Levitate posted:Reactivity, possessive, and calming for doggies For your dog's reactivity, I would first try to determine if it truly is just over-excitement (the way a dog gets when new visitors arrive and they just can't help jumping on them!) or reactivity caused by anxiety or fear. Remember that tail wagging or other tail signals can be a sign of anxiety. Does Greta give you any other signals? Is her barking excited or does it graduate to warning barks or even growls? The best way to tell this would be that the barking should increase or get more anxious/warning as distance decreases. Dogs that are leash-reactive feel threatened by their surroundings because they can't choose to flea and so decreasing distance to the thing she's barking at should tell you if she's just excited to greet or is fearful. If it's just over-excitement, then you can try teaching an alternate behavior that precludes barking, like looking back at you. If Greta is allowed to greet other dogs on leash, then you can Premack principle it, i.e. Greta sits nice and quiet for you and then she's allowed to go see the other dog. Those are just examples and I'm sure there are several great ways you can overcome over-excitement. If it's fear-based reactivity, then I would start with pure counter-conditioning, which means not requiring Greta to do anything, just start popping the treats when she sees another dog. Then you can graduate to asking her to do a simple things like Look At That or sit or whatever when you feel she's ready. I haven't dealt with food or toy possessiveness that much other than the occasionally super-valuable things and then I just lure my dog away with something better and lock her in the bathroom while I pick it up. Ha. It doesn't happen that often, so I've never gotten more complicated then that. For calming...there are a couple things you try doing that I know of. I think it depends a lot on the situation and the dog. For my dog's anxiety-induced barking inside the house at stuff going on outside, we use a time-out. She goes in a bathroom and hangs out there until she's calm again (happens very quickly now). In the beginning we had to put her in there, but now she either goes in herself or runs in when we direct her too and seems to really like it. She hangs out in there sometimes when she's sleepy and it's been a great success in cutting the amount of barking she does. It's more common, I think, to use a mat or doggie bed instead of a bathroom (we used a bathroom for sound-proof reasons) and we've recently been trying to train that as well. You train a Go To Mat command, but you also add 'downtime' on the mat. So in class, we do what my trainer calls body work, where we get the dogs to lay down and then do massaging petting to get the dog to relax. You look for signs like closing eyes, rolling on the side, etc. It's worked pretty well, we've gone from Psyche barely being able to sit in class to being able to hang out in a down and even get some bellyrubs in the presence of other dogs. So now we do the body work on the mat too, to try and establish it as a relaxing place (where you also get yummy treats of course). So I think if you established the mat as a calm place, then you could have a 'time out' when you get home to let your dog calm down. Dogs with anxiety often find it hard to get to a relaxed state and keep jumping up even if tired. Giving the dog a place to cool down has really helped us. Plus, a mat is portable! It's also probably a teenage thing, but it never hurts to keep one step ahead of these things. 
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Aug 18, 2011 03:44
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Skizzles posted:I don't think Shadow understands cues or hand signals so much as he thinks, "OOH if I do that last thing she taught me I should get a treat! No? Okay let me try one more time to make sure! Still no? Okay what about the thing you taught me before that?!" and just go through a couple things before getting it. There are techniques for forcing your dog to actually think about what you want instead of just offering behaviors, but I can't think of any of them right now. Oh god I soooo wish you lived by me. I would absolutely love to have a person like this. I've gone so far as to hint towards it with friends but none of them are dedicated enough to all things dog to work on it regularly with me. Hell, we haven't even managed to do it once with anyone. The one person we really tried with (she actually understood the level of reactivity we're dealing with...most people just don't get it), her dog got heartworm and was out of commission for a while and then we moved away.
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Aug 18, 2011 03:53
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Kiri koli posted:There are techniques for forcing your dog to actually think about what you want instead of just offering behaviors, but I can't think of any of them right now. If you or someone could remember those techniques, that'd be awesome. Damnit, dog, I want you to THINK!  I saw this lady with a somewhat reactive dog in the park today and she was trying to calm him down when Shadow and I passed, and I entertained the idea of going back and offering to help her with it, but I chickened out. Looks like she had an idea of what she was doing by distracting him and making him follow cues. She did it a little late but to be fair Shadow and I kinda came jogging up outta nowhere. I know I could also help these people with advice on how to work on it but I worry about that since I'm not an actual trainer and haven't personally dealt with reactivity since Shadow's never had an issue with it. I want to finish reading Feisty Fido before trying to help anyone anyway.
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Aug 18, 2011 04:12
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Skizzles posted:If you or someone could remember those techniques, that'd be awesome. Damnit, dog, I want you to THINK! Honestly, I think it's probably better that you chickened out. I guess it depends on the level of reactivity, but being approached while handling a reactivity dog is super annoying. I find it really hard to hold a conversation (especially since I talk to my dog a lot when she's upset! ) and I usually end up telling the person to stay back and then try to end the conversation as quickly as possible. I'm sure I often end up looking really rude or unfriendly, but it's hard and if someone started bringing a dog up to my dog, it would quickly turn to dangerous. You don't really know how approaching will escalate things and so you'd have to be really, really careful about it and ready to break off at the first sign of trouble. To someone who doesn't know my dog, she can look really calm right up until she tries to bite something. Anyway, if it's someone you live by and expect to see occasionally, trying to make contact is nice. But if you're just in a random park or whatever... maybe I'm being paranoid, but I prefer to be left alone, especially when my dog is visibly reacting. It's a nice thought though. Maybe you should run an ad. Like dog walkers but more like...practice dogs. Ha. Trust me, you don't need to be a trainer to be helpful because often time is more valuable than advice.
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Aug 18, 2011 04:31
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a life less posted:I don't think she's put up Day Four or beyond yet. She's using a client's dog, so I guess she's restricted by her teaching schedule. Is there any reason why they're not using the dumbell to begin with? The finished formal retrieve requires that the dog grabs and holds the dumbell in a specific way, so to me it would make sense to build that into the behavior from the start so the hold is as strong as the rest of the behavior. I personally wouldn't take the time to shape a play retrieve (=bring any thrown object and place it into my hand). You kind of tend to get that without any extra effort when playing with your dog.
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Aug 18, 2011 07:42
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Rixatrix posted:
I'm not sure why exactly, but I think her client simply wants a casual retrieve behaviour and isn't ever going to compete formally. The slipper is a novel object (the dog had not likely been asked to try to pick it up/play with it prior to the training) plus it's nice and soft and of a decent weight. Basically my guess is that the owner just had it laying around and has dreams of cuing her dog to bring her her shoes. I don't think it's a bad idea to start even formal retrieve training with not-a-dumbbell so you get the framework down but there's less pressure on dog and handler to do it ~correctly~ from the beginning. By using other objects you can create some confidence and drive for the game without having to worry about the dog's grip and other details before you figure out the big picture. I shaped my formal retrieve using Shirley's Retrieve after I'd already done something similar to Fenzi a year prior. I think there are loads of ways to create that end behaviour, so don't feel restricted in the methods you're using (as long as you and your dog are both having fun!). Skizzles posted:If you or someone could remember those techniques, that'd be awesome. Damnit, dog, I want you to THINK! The best way I find to do this is to reset the exercise quickly if you're not getting the response you're looking for (different behaviour, too slow, etc). If you sit there for 10 seconds and just let Shadow throw everything at you you're effectively creating a behaviour chain which will continue to show itself in the future. Reset the cue. Be animated but communicate a "whoops too bad too slow!" when he's not giving you what you want. Use your discretion about whether you should end the session or try again. Sometimes a slow/confused response is the result of being brain-fried. Never be punishing, but this is one of those situations where ignoring the incorrect response is compounding on the mistake. Levitate posted:So somehow in the last month or two, Greta seems to have gotten more dog reactive and possessive about food, balls, etc. It's like I'm looking in a mirror, man. Greta's issues sound very very similar to what I've had to deal with in Cohen. Guarding from other dogs? Yep. Excitement reactivity? Yep. Fun! With the excitement reactivity I would take a treat and slap it on her nose, keeping her focus on you(r treat) and not allowing her to practice her outbursts. I feel that the more she practices reacting the more likely she is to react in the future. As you progress and she becomes a bit easier to handle you can start asking for alternative behaviours, etc. I tend to just ask for a "look at me/look at that" and a nice "heel" while we're passing distractions. Being stationary can also help for excited dogs. Regarding the guarding, if she's guarding things from you, you should pick up a copy of Donaldson's "Mine!". Resource guarding from people can be almost completely fixed with some training and booster sessions for the entirety of your dog's life. Regarding the guarding from dogs, management is the most important thing here. You simply cannot train out guarding against dogs as effectively as you can against people. You can use the same exercises as outlined in Mine and they can decrease the intensity of the behaviour, but the truth of the matter is that it's likely to continue if the resources are still present. So pick up the food, don't leave toys laying around, etc. I call ahead to my friend's house to remind her to pick up the bones she leaves laying around for her dog. You simply have to be proactive. The basic idea behind the exercises in Mine is to have your event be conditioned as the precursor to Good Things. Just like the click from the clicker means "food is on its way". So you'll charge your approach the exact same way, starting off really easy and eventually working up to the hardest stuff like taking away a favourite food. There are a number of factors that affect the intensity of a dog's guarding (like angle of approach, the amount of time the dog has been in possession of the object, etc) that you really should read the book to understand. a life less fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Aug 18, 2011 |
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Aug 18, 2011 13:14
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a life less posted:I shaped my formal retrieve using Shirley's Retrieve after I'd already done something similar to Fenzi a year prior. To tell you the truth right now I'm not having much fun with any of my training. I had Rho temperament tested some weeks ago and it turns out some quirks he has are likely to be more serious/difficult to deal with than I previously thought. It turns out Rho is sound sensitive and very soft, as well as independent. He doesn't seek help from me in difficult situations at all, which was heartbraking. Our first agility trial is on Saturday but right now I'm inclined to think he isn't up for it yet. His agility skills are good enough, but he's probably too uncomfortable in the trial environment to be able to perform. I don't think the dogs mind my lagging motivation with training though, as I just settle for doing simpler things without much of a goal in mind.
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Aug 18, 2011 13:42
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She hasn't shown any guarding behavior with us, just with other dogs (she also seems to kind of guard us if she thinks other dogs are getting too rowdy with us). I don't think her barking at other dogs is fear based. She definitely *looks* more excited than fearful (she isn't really tensed up, lips aren't curled back, etc), and from what I've seen of her fear posture, she just isn't displaying that. She's also generally good at meeting other dogs, even on leash. She seems to want to go over and say hi, and there's only ever a problem if she then feels like the other dog is being too pushy and she's kind of restrained and can't move away as she'd like. At this point I've just been trying to get her to do something for me like sit, etc, get her attention on me and a treat and try to get her to calm down a bit and the reward her, etc. She tends to bounce back up and be all way too excited if a minute goes by without a treat though. For the resource guarding with other dogs, is it best to just remove the other dog from the area if it happens? I seem to remember that you shouldn't take away their food/toy since that seems to make them think "other dog=my stuff taken away" edit: here's a specific question about managing her excitement...like I mentioned, we have a bunny and he lives out in the living room, where we fenced off an area. I think this is part looking to stir up excitement, but she'll run over and try to get him to react so that she'll be entertained, or she'll start whining or even barking sometimes. Again, this mostly happens in the evening, so most of the time it's not a problem, but sometimes she's just way too "oh poo poo I wanna go visit that bunny lemme in there! (and if she gets in she just ignores him and tries to eat rabbit poop)". Would I just use the same thing of trying to distract her when she goes running over, treat her for listening to me and not whining/barking, etc? And the bun is pretty cool with it all. He has places to hide if he chooses to and doesn't seem too concerned about the whole thing. Levitate fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Aug 18, 2011 |
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Aug 18, 2011 13:46
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our puppy (4 months) is very similar. He's chill during the day with me and gets rammy in the evening after my boyfriend gets home from work. On walks he wants to meet EVERY DOG and EVERY PERSON and is so excited!!!! and gets upset if he's not allowed to/ can't. I realize this behavior is totally our fault because we were encouraging of him meeting everyone when he was on leash in order to socialize, and now he loves it so much that he'll bark or jump up if he sees a dog or person he wants to say hi to. Our other issue is that he does not look to us for guidance/ does not know to stay next to us on walks/ totally ignores us. We had our first puppy obedience class yesterday and got some good exercises to work with him on eye contact which I hope will help. in the meantime, walks are not so easy, because he is either sitting down refusing to walk or barking and pulling to go meet a dog. It's very hard to get him to follow me. I've been luring him with turkey deli slices to follow me but it is very slow going. It's only once we get to the park and he gets to run around on a retractable leash for a while and get his zoomies out that he is willing to walk nicely next to me. Usually the walk back to the house is perfect- it just takes half an hour or so to get the 3 blocks down to the park.
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Aug 18, 2011 14:28
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