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So when are we supposed to take a break, baquerd? When we're 60 and it makes financial sense? Then why is it that old people recommend travelling and enjoying life as much as possible while we're young? Do you think they know something you don't? Edit: I mean cool old people, not people like my immigrant parents.
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# ? Aug 13, 2011 23:15 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 19:28 |
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baquerd posted:A year's worth of savings in your mid 20's could literally be a half million dollars or more by retirement if you didn't do your 3 month splurge. How much will it cost me to buy a few months of being an unencumbered 20-something during my retirement? Oh wait, you can't buy time back.
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# ? Aug 14, 2011 06:54 |
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I took a half year off to travel between graduating college and starting my first job. Easily the best time of my life. When I switched between my first and second job, I ended up only having 2 weeks of vacation which I regret. If/when I leave my second job, I'm tempted to take a year off. Has anyone done that?
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# ? Aug 14, 2011 13:13 |
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Paolomania posted:How much will it cost me to buy a few months of being an unencumbered 20-something during my retirement? Oh wait, you can't buy time back. No, you can't. You also can't get around this being a thing right now: Chasiubao posted:http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/16/news/economy/unemployed_need_not_apply/index.htm Pick your tradeoff, but know what you're getting into either way.
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# ? Aug 14, 2011 18:55 |
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A lot of jobs request you submit sample code from projects you've worked on. Say you're submitting an application you've developed for personal use and had to intention to publish. It's likely not coded, because you wrote it and understand your conventions / logic. Should you submit the code just like that, or should you go back and comment it for the new reader? On one hand, I'd say no because it looks weird (in my opinion) to document your own stuff. On the other hand, in the real world you drat well should be commenting your code so maybe they want to see you do comment stuff. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Aug 17, 2011 |
# ? Aug 17, 2011 00:21 |
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Anything that you don't plan to delete in the near future should be at least sparsely commented, even if you never intend for anyone else to see it. Just because you understand all the details of the code now doesn't mean you will in six months.
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# ? Aug 17, 2011 00:38 |
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Comment to document the purposes of your classes / functions. also comment anything "clever" you do (but better yet don't do anything clever)
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# ? Aug 17, 2011 01:23 |
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Sab669 posted:A lot of jobs request you submit sample code from projects you've worked on. In my experience, they don't really tend to look too in depth at the code, so something sparsely commented might not be too big of an issue. Hopefully the names of your classes, functions, variables should document themselves. I've found that they take a look at the code for 10-15 minutes to see at a high level some of your techniques. Do you use inheritance? Are you using interfaces? Do you have unit tests written? They'll find 2 or 3 things about the code to ask you about, so make sure you explain your decisions. Why did you inherit from this class instead of subscribing to an interface? Things like that.
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# ? Aug 17, 2011 05:02 |
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Interesting insight. I do use "self-documenting" variable names as you suggested, in the sense that I don't just use i j and k for everything, but instead have meaningful names for everything. Suppose it couldn't hurt to toss in some comments on stuff to explain their general purpose though. Now I just need ideas for what to write for sample work
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# ? Aug 17, 2011 16:52 |
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So, I appear to have a dilemma. Hopefully this is the right place to air it. An old contact of mine called me out of the blue about a position he apparently has open in his company. They're fairly new---about six years now---and they exclusively develop software in-house for other companies, no seat filling onsite, no extended support contracts, etc. The work environment seems "fun", and my contact made it a point to give me the hard sell; for eample, he brought up jobs the company was doing that matched a concern I had aired to him in a conversation almost three years ago, about how what I was doing wasn't really making a difference in people's lives. (The project was for an app to help doctors detect potential child abuse, but I digress.) On paper, it sounds super exciting, but here lately two things have been bothering me: 1) My "too good to be true" RADAR is pinging like mad, and 2) I already have a job I've been at for about a year. #2 is what worries me the most, I think. I feel like a horrible traitor getting yanked out from under my current job like that, especially since I'm not really dissatisfied with it, but this could be a dream position. Allowing that I'm doing due diligence in research and plan on asking a lot of polite questions about future revenues in the interview, has anyone been in this situation before? I know it's just business, but my gut is telling me to slam on the brakes hard, and I don't know if it's justified. Thanks.
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# ? Aug 18, 2011 03:38 |
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Chokes McGee posted:2) I already have a job I've been at for about a year. These days, employers generally have no loyalty to their employees. Don't feel obligated to stay out of loyalty to the company. Do what's best for you and your happiness.
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# ? Aug 18, 2011 04:08 |
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Chokes McGee posted:Allowing that I'm doing due diligence in research and plan on asking a lot of polite questions about future revenues in the interview, has anyone been in this situation before? I know it's just business, but my gut is telling me to slam on the brakes hard, and I don't know if it's justified. Thanks. As Ithaqua said, loyalty doesn't have a dollar value to the modern employer and intangibles only count when sports fans are discussing trades. That said, if you've got cold feet specifically about the job offer, trust your instincts. If he's giving you the hard sell, you have to figure out why - is he just a pushy personality, is he on a financial motive to become a part-time recruiter (or just under pressure from management), or can he see the writing on the wall and is desperately searching for the magic bullet (that's you, by the way) to fix everything? TLDR: Don't worry about your current job, as long as the offer's better. But make drat sure the offer's better before you burn your bridges.
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# ? Aug 18, 2011 05:26 |
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You could also take a couple of days off and visit the company and see what they do and how they work.
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# ? Aug 18, 2011 13:58 |
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Thanks, everybody! I'm coming in on late Friday afternoon to take a skill test at their location, so I can nose around the office at that time and see what the atmosphere is like. We'll see where it goes, I guess.
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# ? Aug 18, 2011 15:49 |
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Okay, I have a question about a really bizarre phenomenon I've come across when giving interviews. One of the questions we use to ease into CS topics is to ask the candidate to describe a few sorting algorithms that they're familiar with, and then depending on what they say we go from there. Anyway, some ridiculous number like 6 of the last 10 candidates have said 'binary sort.' What the gently caress. That isn't even a thing, or if it is, it's almost certainly not what they meant. Why does everyone keep saying this?
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:22 |
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They are probably confusing it with binary search.
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:30 |
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Yes, that is what I always figured, but even so, the sheer number of people who say 'binary sort' is baffling. I was just wondering if anyone else has run into this.baquerd posted:Ask them to describe it and see what you get. Maybe a tree sort.
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:34 |
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Orzo posted:Okay, I have a question about a really bizarre phenomenon I've come across when giving interviews. One of the questions we use to ease into CS topics is to ask the candidate to describe a few sorting algorithms that they're familiar with, and then depending on what they say we go from there. Anyway, some ridiculous number like 6 of the last 10 candidates have said 'binary sort.' What the gently caress. That isn't even a thing, or if it is, it's almost certainly not what they meant. Why does everyone keep saying this? Ask them to describe it and see what you get. Maybe a tree sort. Why are you asking about sorts when if they use anything other than default library sorts 99% of the time they are wrong.
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:34 |
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Any answer other than Timsort is an automatic reject, handshake, here's the door.
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:35 |
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Bogosort and bubblesort are the only search algorithms, and I will fight you about it
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:40 |
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Sleepsort
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:42 |
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I'm waiting for the candidate that says quantum bogosort. That's a hire. Wait is this the LC thread
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 16:42 |
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Orzo posted:I'm waiting for the candidate that says quantum bogosort. That's a hire. Hahahaha I'd never heard of this, so I'm posting it for those who also hadn't: http://www.mathnews.uwaterloo.ca/Issues/mn11103/QuantumBogoSort.php TasteMyHouse fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Aug 19, 2011 |
# ? Aug 19, 2011 17:20 |
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I'd be tempted to say Intelligent design sort
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 17:34 |
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I'm depressed to say that the joke sorting algorithms (bogosort, quantum bogosort, sleepsort) are the only ones I can remember very well
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# ? Aug 19, 2011 20:57 |
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Honestly, though, I think that sleepsort is really cool. Other sorting methods rely on the relationships between the items being sorted in order to compare them. Sleepsort considers each item by itself.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 00:11 |
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Orzo posted:Okay, I have a question about a really bizarre phenomenon I've come across when giving interviews. One of the questions we use to ease into CS topics is to ask the candidate to describe a few sorting algorithms that they're familiar with, and then depending on what they say we go from there. Anyway, some ridiculous number like 6 of the last 10 candidates have said 'binary sort.' What the gently caress. That isn't even a thing, or if it is, it's almost certainly not what they meant. Why does everyone keep saying this? Did they have CS backgrounds? I remember a little about sorting algorithms from my college days, but I haven't had to actually implement a sort since then. At this point, if you asked me "how does a quicksort work?" I'd just shrug. Something involving partitioning.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 02:40 |
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Ithaqua posted:At this point, if you asked me "how does a quicksort work?" I'd just shrug. List<string> test = new List<string>(); test.Sort();
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 03:26 |
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Ithaqua posted:Did they have CS backgrounds? I remember a little about sorting algorithms from my college days, but I haven't had to actually implement a sort since then. At this point, if you asked me "how does a quicksort work?" I'd just shrug. Something involving partitioning. the details of the partitioning often escape me but the basic concept (pick a pivot, put numbers smaller than the pivot on one side, numbers larger than the pivot on the other, recurse) is simple enough to remember
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 03:35 |
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Yes, we only ask that question to people with CS backgrounds. Basically it's a one of a few questions to prove that you actually have a CS background. You don't need to know the implementation details, but you should be able to name either quicksort or mergesort as a fast algorithm and bubble sort as a slow algorithm. I agree that knowing the actual implementation doesn't really say much about the candidate, although I'm not going to lie, mentally I'd count it for bonus points.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 03:43 |
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I first saw Sleepsort as an interview question actually. It was given as an anonymous function with non-descriptive variable names and the interviewee had to say what it does and find the bugs in it. I think a good question for gauging basic familiarity with sorting algorithms would be to ask what the primary difference is between Mergesort and Quicksort.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 04:38 |
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Eggnogium posted:I first saw Sleepsort as an interview question actually. It was given as an anonymous function with non-descriptive variable names and the interviewee had to say what it does and find the bugs in it.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 05:11 |
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I'd never heard of the Sleepsort before tonight. Evil genius. Here's my 5 minute C# implementation! code:
New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Aug 20, 2011 |
# ? Aug 20, 2011 05:41 |
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Orzo posted:I wouldn't expect anyone who has had a real job for a number of years to remember that. If they were straight out of school, maybe. There's actually an important semantic difference; it's one of the few things that make it important to understand sorting algorithms even when you don't need to implement them.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 06:56 |
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Orzo posted:I wouldn't expect anyone who has had a real job for a number of years to remember that. If they were straight out of school, maybe. There are, however, real jobs where you do need to be familiar with that kind of stuff in your day-to-day work.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 09:35 |
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Eggnogium posted:I think a good question for gauging basic familiarity with sorting algorithms would be to ask what the primary difference is between Mergesort and Quicksort. "Primary" seems like an odd qualifier to give there, as sometimes stability is most relevant while other times worst-case runtime would be.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 09:39 |
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Orzo posted:I wouldn't expect anyone who has had a real job for a number of years to remember that. If they were straight out of school, maybe. I'd consider it a severe mark against a person even after years away from school not to know what quick sort and merge sort are, if they had once known. It means they didn't find sorting algorithms interesting enough, or data structures and algorithms in general interesting enough, for them to remember anything about them. They're the quintessential O(n log n) sorting algorithms! If a person can't remember how they work, what can they remember? What a vector is? How to write foreach loop? How link list get insert? Do these people just have a table of knowledge mapping operations of the Java standard library to their big O running times? Edit: Of course there are plenty of good developers who don't know this who majored in physics or whatever.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 09:47 |
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pokeyman posted:"Primary" seems like an odd qualifier to give there, as sometimes stability is most relevant while other times worst-case runtime would be. But to describe a difference you have to address both those. That doesn't preclude the fact that either can be the most critical in different contexts. Anyways, I should have qualified: I meant primary implementation difference, as in with Quicksort the actual comparisons and swaps are done on the way down the stack whereas with Mergesort they are done on the way up. shrughes posted:I'd consider it a severe mark against a person even after years away from school not to know what quick sort and merge sort are, if they had once known. It means they didn't find sorting algorithms interesting enough, or data structures and algorithms in general interesting enough, for them to remember anything about them. They're the quintessential O(n log n) sorting algorithms! If a person can't remember how they work, what can they remember? What a vector is? How to write foreach loop? How link list get insert? Do these people just have a table of knowledge mapping operations of the Java standard library to their big O running times? I disagree that you can equate sorting algorithms with those other concepts. Vectors, loops, and linked lists are all pretty intuitive concepts once you have seen and used them. Not to mention it is much more important to understand their details for day-to-day programming than it is to remember the gooey details of Mergesort.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 18:14 |
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shrughes posted:There are, however, real jobs where you do need to be familiar with that kind of stuff in your day-to-day work. shrughes posted:I'd consider it a severe mark against a person even after years away from school not to know what quick sort and merge sort are, if they had once known. It means they didn't find sorting algorithms interesting enough, or data structures and algorithms in general interesting enough, for them to remember anything about them. They're the quintessential O(n log n) sorting algorithms! If a person can't remember how they work, what can they remember? What a vector is? How to write foreach loop? How link list get insert? Do these people just have a table of knowledge mapping operations of the Java standard library to their big O running times? merge sort and quicksort, not just to be able to name them as O(n lg n) algorithms. Although I personally love data structures and algorithms and could rattle that stuff off despite rarely using any of it for 6 years, there is a lot more to working in the software industry than remembering sorting algorithms, like how to write good code. Also can you not reply to single posts twice? There is an 'edit' button, you know.
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 18:29 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 19:28 |
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Quicksort isn't O(n*log n). It's O(n2)
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# ? Aug 20, 2011 21:33 |