|
I totally agree Walrus. Also I've seen Qbert live and it was boring as hell. He had an iPod playing beats and spent 30 minutes straight doing the fastest and most technically proficient scratching I've ever seen and it had absolutely no musicality, flow or groove to it. He basically cared more about showing off his amazing scratching skills more than the audience having a good time (nobody was dancing or even head nodding) and I think it's a good lesson that your "technical" DJing ability isn't directly correlated with your ability to play a great show and make people dance.
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 01:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
Yeah the last time I saw Qbert play he was on after Jazzy Jeff who is technically perfect [seriously it's unreal] but can still make a crowd move. There's also super-tech DJs like Kid Koala or Swamp who still make it entertaining. Qbert was great matched up with the Piklz or on a 2x2 but on his own it's "master of 10,000 'wah' scratches".
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 02:20
|
|
|
I don't know anyone that's ever gone to a Qbert show expecting anything but a technical showcase.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 04:58
|
|
|
That was my point, mostly. Qbert's audience is a bunch of DJ nerds, yours isn't.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 05:03
|
|
|
That Wicked Walrus posted:That was my point, mostly. Qbert's audience is a bunch of DJ nerds, yours isn't. Yeah. It's funny, most of the DJs I know that are vinyl crusaders don't beatmatch that much either. Everyone just visually cues stuff up on Serato and checks in the headphones real quick to make sure. Yet the same people hate Traktor DJs because they have a button that does it for them (but it still requires a lot of time to set stuff up the grid points so they're good  ).
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 05:44
|
|
|
geeves posted:That said, I think that learning to beatmatch with vinyl is still the best way (or with CDJs with the BPM counter covered with electrical tape) - I think it's an extremely valuable way to train your ears (I DJ in my headphones, both tracks in both ears), to really get to know your tracks, to hear all the differences in them and that when mixing you know the split second something isn't right and know which track to fix, in what direction without having to hit the sync key (whatever the gently caress that is - and holy run-on sentence). Absolutely. I'm a controller DJ but I'm trying to get my hands on some turntables (on my budget) to learn to beatmatch with, because I think it's a skill I should have if I'm serious. I think of it like Picasso or Pollock. These were guys that abandoned the traditional structure of their art, and what gave them the ability to do that and be taken seriously was their mastery over the traditional form. If Jackson Polluck couldn't paint a figure, he would just be some dude throwing paint on a canvas; but since he could have been painting figures, and instead decided to make action paintings, that meant something. Maybe sort of a strained analogy but you get what you mean. Nobody can call you out for being a laptop DJ if you're choosing not to spin vinyl but know how.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 14:01
|
|
|
Chitin posted:Absolutely. I'm a controller DJ but I'm trying to get my hands on some turntables (on my budget) to learn to beatmatch with, because I think it's a skill I should have if I'm serious. Sure, but you're not a vinyl DJ that has abandoned the structure of your art. You're an abstract impressionist with gallery showings that has decided to go to the community college for a still life course because they think it'll make them a better abstract impressionist. Which is a really weird idea. I grew up on vinyl. Do you know who I call out for being a lame laptop DJ? DJs who know how to spin vinyl, and use controllers the same way they used vinyl. They use them to beatmatch. They could be using vinyl, which would be more interesting than watching them press 'sync' and not do anything else. They're boring as gently caress. Why bother? The laptop DJs that don't get 'called out' are the ones who aren't handicapping themselves by learning the limitations and trappings of a medium that's over half a century old. They're the ones who have learned chopping and looping on the fly instead of how to nudge a record without bumping the needle. They can memorize a half-dozen hot cue points per track instead of looking at the vinyl to know where the break is. I mean, it's your life, friend. But all this vinyl fetishism is bullshit. Learning how to beatmatch on vinyl will not make you a better controller DJ. Learning how to beatmatch on your controller might. Learning how to use all the other features of your controller will.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 14:23
|
|
|
Chitin posted:Nobody can call you out for being a laptop DJ if you're choosing not to spin vinyl but know how. Maybe three people have ever stood on a dancefloor and thought this and those three people didn't come to dance anyway
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 16:42
|
|
|
So, i don't call myself a DJ, but last saturday night at a friend's party i got to play with ableton+mpd32 and that was serious fun, looking forward to get the apc40. I was thinking, traktor works as plugin in ableton? you could have it reWired and do all the crazy poo poo with ableton while actually mixing with traktor (like beatmaching, a thing that i found hard to do in albeton)
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 19:04
|
|
|
Horrido posted:So, i don't call myself a DJ, but last saturday night at a friend's party i got to play with ableton+mpd32 and that was serious fun, looking forward to get the apc40. You don't beatmatch in Ableton, you play clips/music/samples set to a master tempo and if they're processed beforehand they will play in time. I'm pretty sure Traktor is a standalone program and can't be rewired into anything. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, last time I used ableton was in 2008.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 20:46
|
|
|
Horrido posted:I was thinking, traktor works as plugin in ableton? you could have it reWired and do all the crazy poo poo with ableton while actually mixing with traktor (like beatmaching, a thing that i found hard to do in albeton) Nope. Traktor is a standalone program. Ableton did partner up with Serato to allow you to hook the two programs together kinda how you are describing. It's called The Bridge: http://www.ableton.com/thebridge I've never tried it out so I can't speak to exactly how it works or how well it works
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 21:48
|
|
|
^^^ drat. Gonna check that, do they have a demo? THAT drat DOG posted:You don't beatmatch in Ableton, you play clips/music/samples set to a master tempo and if they're processed beforehand they will play in time. I'm pretty sure Traktor is a standalone program and can't be rewired into anything. Yeah i worded it wrong, i use ableton for producing but i played amateurish live gigs and it was lot of fun. EDIT: One problem i had is that i couldn't get the headphones to work, i have m-audio fast track, but the only signal comiing out of the headphones output was the same of the main exit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 22:53
|
|
|
vanilla slimfast posted:Nope. Traktor is a standalone program. My understanding is that you can route Traktor Pro 2 through Ableton and record each deck separately/use Ableton's effects but I've never tried it. P. badass if true.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 00:25
|
|
|
Chitin posted:My understanding is that you can route Traktor Pro 2 through Ableton and record each deck separately/use Ableton's effects but I've never tried it. You can do this, I don't know the details but that's what Hawtin does. I know some others do it too but I'm not sure who. Basically he runs Traktor with dual X1s to control 4 decks, loops, and hot cues. Its wired through a second laptop where he uses Ableton's effects. External mixer of course, I'm pretty sure he uses a Xone 92 usually. I think Loco Dice and maybe Dubfire do this as well, but their setups are always changing... I know they use Maschine now too but I don't know if it's wired through Ableton. With Traktor's effects I can't see the need for Ableton unless you're doing some extremely creative poo poo like looping 4 decks and running samples and different effects on each deck, even then, Traktor 2 is extremely powerful.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 06:38
|
|
|
Firaga posted:You can do this, I don't know the details but that's what Hawtin does. I know some others do it too but I'm not sure who. Again, I can see the use for recording sets def - nothing worse than screwing up something super minor about a transition 45 minutes into a mixtape, and it would be great to just be able to go back and fix that part of the mix. I can also see just preferring some of Ableton's tools if you use both extensively.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 14:10
|
|
|
Firaga posted:With Traktor's effects I can't see the need for Ableton unless you're doing some extremely creative poo poo like looping 4 decks and running samples and different effects on each deck, even then, Traktor 2 is extremely powerful. I love Traktor, but Ableton's effects blow it out of the water. You just can't compete with the number of killer VSTs out there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 14:17
|
|
|
Oh I completely agree, my point is that it's just a lot of work for the average DJ who is just doing to use a flanger, reverb, and delay. Personally I don't really feel that I'm using Traktor's effects to their full potential. I'm still trying to figure out what that delay/echo stutter that Hawtin and Dubfire always use. Or that reverb+delay+phaser sounding thing that Joris Voorn and Umek use. If you listen to their sets regularly you'll know what I mean.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 18:41
|
|
|
With all thise talk of Ableton / Traktor / Controllers / etc: What is a decent controller to start out with? I have had Ableton for the last year and a half or so, but never really did anything with it. Right now it feels like just money wasted. So I figure if I had something that I could use in my sets - I just am not sure what.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 21:03
|
|
|
For Ableton? Look for anything by Akai. The APC 20, APC 40, or Launchpad. This is assuming you want to actually DJ with Ableton and not produce (although the APC series are pretty good controllers for production as well). You're also going to need an external soundcard. M-Audio or Native Instruments make good ones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 21:11
|
|
|
I don't think the APC40 is great for DJing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 21:25
|
|
|
Ableton in general isn't good for DJing unless you're a producer doing a set for a music festival type deal.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 21:31
|
|
|
Wrong, Ableton is fine for DJing, but the APC40 isn't great for it. I'd use something like this: http://illgates.com/2011/07/ill-gates-dj-template/
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 21:35
|
|
|
Oh yeah, I forgot about the trigger finger. It's by Akai as well. Also the Ipad has a great Ableton controller app that a lot of big name DJs are using.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2011 21:51
|
|
|
Firaga posted:For Ableton? Look for anything by Akai. The APC 20, APC 40, or Launchpad. This is assuming you want to actually DJ with Ableton and not produce (although the APC series are pretty good controllers for production as well). You're also going to need an external soundcard. M-Audio or Native Instruments make good ones. Out of curiosity what are the implications of using a controller without an external card?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 00:57
|
|
|
a bunch of dudes talkin about whatever vs. whatever posted:lotta words I believe that the best thing that one can do to become a better DJ is to just listen to a metric fuckton of music. No amount of crazy controller skill or scratching or whatever the gently caress can make up for not having a well-developed taste and aesthetic. Most of the best DJs out there are dudes who have spent half their lives buried up to their necks in the music they play learning their records inside and out: what they do, where they go, how they feel. Personally, as a producer in addition to being a DJ, I'm not a huge fan of the whole controllerism thing, simply because I feel like I spend a shitload of effort writing tracks for the dancefloor and structuring them in ways that are interesting to listen to but still DJ friendly. It may be an ego thing (it almost definitely is) but I feel like some dude just deciding to loop a few bars of my track and layer it with a few bars from some other dudes' tracks is a little disrespectful to the music that you're playing. I've always felt like my job as a DJ is to be a little more curative, but then again, I'm not playing to 1000-person rooms at 1am, and I don't really have a whole lot of desire to. However, I don't think that having that sort of attitude necessarily stands in the way of party-rocking; one of the best sets I've ever seen was Robag Wruhme at Nove Lounge in Detroit a few years ago, and he basically just stood up there and played records end to end, letting each one of them stretch out and do what it does, and he had the entire room flipping the gently caress out by simply playing really excellent records. In conclusion, I'm a big 'ol nerdlord and you should probably disregard this post entirely. Also my favorite mixers are Eclers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 01:22
|
|
|
Thoogsby posted:Out of curiosity what are the implications of using a controller without an external card? Lots of latency between the time you do something on the controller and the time you hear it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 01:33
|
|
|
Thoogsby posted:Out of curiosity what are the implications of using a controller without an external card? An internal soundcard will have a latency of about 50ms, and an external will have a latency of about 5-10ms. Huge difference. Also it will give you a secondary channel for monitoring/queuing through headphones. You can technically do this with an internal soundcard though by changing to a 4 speaker setup and using the front two for master and the back two for monitoring. Also sound quality tends to be much better in a dedicated sound card. And the last thing is an external will have TRS, XLR, and RCA inputs/outputs so you can actually plug external hardware into it, such as a full size mixer. Or hook up to a club sound system which usually uses balanced outputs like XLR and TRS.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 02:04
|
|
|
Firaga posted:An internal soundcard will have a latency of about 50ms, and an external will have a latency of about 5-10ms. Huge difference. Also it will give you a secondary channel for monitoring/queuing through headphones. You can technically do this with an internal soundcard though by changing to a 4 speaker setup and using the front two for master and the back two for monitoring. Thanks for this. Can anyone recommend me a good entry level dedicated soundcard? I saw NI and M-Audio mentioned, are there pros and cons between the two or is it all preference?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 15:30
|
|
|
Thoogsby posted:Thanks for this. Can anyone recommend me a good entry level dedicated soundcard? I saw NI and M-Audio mentioned, are there pros and cons between the two or is it all preference? I'm going to let somebody else answer this question because I've been using an S4 which has it's own soundcard, so it's been a while since I've looked into them. But last I checked the NI Audio 6 is great to start with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 16:56
|
|
|
Thoogsby posted:Thanks for this. Can anyone recommend me a good entry level dedicated soundcard? I saw NI and M-Audio mentioned, are there pros and cons between the two or is it all preference? I just got an M-Audio Fast Track II - I'll report on it once I get it set up. On another note, is it just me or is rekordbox probably the worst piece of poo poo music management software out there? It quantizes, but try to organize into playlists and it freezes on me every 3rd track I move AND it makes a loving new copy of it on the same goddamn device 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 22:44
|
|
|
geeves posted:On another note, is it just me or is rekordbox probably the worst piece of poo poo music management software out there? I just started using rekordbox a month or so ago and I love the functionality that it adds to my CDJs. With the database set up you can search and sort and a few other things that you just can't do otherwise. I don't use the quantization though. I can add things to playlists en masse and only have one copy of everything that stays in my iTunes directory on my local drive. Are you adding tunes to your library from an external drive? Hit me up on twitter @grapeguts if you want to talk rekordbox.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 23:32
|
|
|
Chitin posted:My understanding is that you can route Traktor Pro 2 through Ableton and record each deck separately/use Ableton's effects but I've never tried it. I run a setup that does this currently. For software I use: Bome's Midi Translator Pro (for creating chains of midi messages, conditional midi messages and more advanced commands than Traktor or Ableton's midi mapping will let me) Jack Router (This creates a virtual audio interface that routes your audio from Traktor and into Ableton) Traktor Pro 2 Ableton This is all controlled by: APC40 DJM 800 (Likely soon to be a nexus though) (Note I am using the DJM for my mixing needs, Traktor for my track controls, Ableton for my effects) As a primer, this setup is NOT for the faint of heart. It took me a significant amount of time and effort to get this setup running smoothly. I'm still playing around with the last few effects I have space to fit into my mapping. When it's finished, if anyone wants to have a look let me know and I'll make a video / demo of how it functions.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 08:08
|
|
|
What's your latency like with a setup like that?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 13:49
|
|
|
relative_q posted:I believe that the best thing that one can do to become a better DJ is to just listen to a metric fuckton of music. No amount of crazy controller skill or scratching or whatever the gently caress can make up for not having a well-developed taste and aesthetic. Most of the best DJs out there are dudes who have spent half their lives buried up to their necks in the music they play learning their records inside and out: what they do, where they go, how they feel. This, a thousand times this. Learn your music. Learn as much music as you can. If you can move from simply using the tracks to knowing your songs and what they do on their own/what kind of vibe or groove they create - your understanding of your job as a DJ and your ability to do it well will be far above many of today's simple "sync" button pushers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 14:59
|
|
|
I hope this is the right thread for this. If not would you kindly point me in the right direction? Several times when I used to tour, I encountered really slick-looking "insert panels"/patchbays at several clubs - Where the DJ could just plug in their Serato and it interrupted the signal between the decks and the returns and outs. It was just a nicely labeled panel with several rows of RCA jacks, to suit a variety of applications. I'm rebuilding the booth in my bar, and I would like to build something similar so any incoming DJ has a good degree of flexibility without having to mess with unplugging and rewiring the house gear. Does anyone work in a club with such a thing? Have you built one? Is there a basic schematic or template available?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 21:09
|
|
|
I think Allen and Heath make a patchbay like that. edit: http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?catId=XoneSeries&ProductId=XonePB&SubCatId=
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 23:48
|
|
|
blacksun posted:I run a setup that does this currently.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2011 17:49
|
|
|
Does anyone here use a USB hub? I don't have enough ports for my mouse, controller and sound card.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 02:55
|
|
|
Thoogsby posted:Does anyone here use a USB hub? I don't have enough ports for my mouse, controller and sound card. Use a bluetooth mouse.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 02:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
Thoogsby posted:Does anyone here use a USB hub? I don't have enough ports for my mouse, controller and sound card. I bought this 7-port USB hub after a fair bit of research specifically for use with live music, and it has performed flawlessly. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 04:15
|
|