|
DontMockMySmock posted:Well, I assume it's been errata'd, then, because it's Ok, they feel my pain. It's all good, then. That's some crazy errata, though!
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 10:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 06:30 |
|
|
Well, the weapon itself isn't really any better than a longsword. It's just the feat support that's different, and I guess they figured that if you're willing to burn a few feats to support your weapon, then that's enough of an investment, without making you buy the proficiency feat. The feat support for light blades is much more universally applicable while also being really loving powerful (+damage and +to hit with CA, and also Surprising Charge) so I do wish that it was more of a real choice. Light blade support just ended up better than heavy blade support. I don't much like it (I'd much prefer it was an actual pick between two different but equal options) but there you go.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 12:19
|
|
|
J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Well, the weapon itself isn't really any better than a longsword. It's just the feat support that's different, and I guess they figured that if you're willing to burn a few feats to support your weapon, then that's enough of an investment, without making you buy the proficiency feat. Heavy Blades get Heavy Blade opportunity, which for a fighter, might be actually decent to use. EDIT: But yeah, Light Blade Expertise, Nimble Blade, surprising charge, etc. All make Light Blades pretty amazing to use.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 17:53
|
|
|
Mince Pieface posted:EDIT: If you prefer a less violent way of breaking the game a little, you can go the skillwhore route instead. There are some fun things you can do with various classes, but I am a fan of the Deva Shaman. A few feats will let you use your speak with spirits on party members, give allies a +2 bonus to skills when you use speak with spirits, and use your memory of a thousand lifetimes to get +1d8 on a skill check, treating 1-3 as 4. You can easily get 40+ on a wis or int based skill check at level 5 using your memory and speak with spirits. vv I mean on Wizard's charop forum or similar dedicated boards. frankenfreak fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 19, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 08:07
|
|
|
Technically, this is the thread for that, if "optimize for stupidly high skill checks" is your goal.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 10:35
|
|
|
Pawsplay, make a knight with Hold the Line (mandatory stance, anyway) and Vicious Advantage. Boom, you have combat advantage on every hit beyond the first. You can even be completely Dex focused with that Melee Training feat, though you lose out on a bit of your "mark" punishment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 17:50
|
|
|
Playing an Elven Beast Ranger with Druid multiclass feat. DM offers a mid-campaign respec, we lost our only Controller a while back, so I take him up on it and try for a Hybrid Ranger/Druid. I asked the group's resident min-maxer for help and got some, but for some drat reason the changes don't seem to have actually saved anywhere and he's too busy now, so I'm asking you.code:edit: Oh, thanks. I expected it to be under Export. Bitchtits McGee fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Aug 19, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 20:45
|
|
|
quote:the online one doesn't seem to have a text dump option Entirely beside the point, but it does. It's one of the Character Sheet options. I think it's called "Summary" or something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 20:47
|
|
|
So you might check out the hybrid Sentinel option if you want to keep your animal around. Since you're (presumably) not going to take any of the Hybrid Talent Druid options, picking up the Sentinel's animal companion pretty much for free seems like a good deal, the aura is nice and you'll be able to threaten OAs even while being an archer. Your powers look good except for Flame Seed, which is a tad mediocre. I recommend Grasping Tide if you want an AoE (and you do). Feats, on the other hand...first, I notice you have no Expertise feat listed. Is this because your DM is giving them away for free? Also, what's up with Stampede? You have no way to make a charge attack in beast form. And, if you really want to use Hobbling Strike, you ought to be combining it with World Serpent's Grasp or it's honestly not worth very much. Further, Hobbling Strike + Lethal Hunter is not a very good combination. Finally, get a neck slot item, they're kind of important.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 23:19
|
|
|
After last session I've decided that I'd rather not play a Pursuit Avenger in a party without a controller (being locked down and chain-immobilized by a bunch of guys isn't that fun). So I'd like to turn the tables. Is Wizard still the reigning "lock down the monsters so hard the DM cries" class? Here's something I just threw together: ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== level 7 Tiefling, Wizard Arcane Implement Mastery: Tome of Readiness FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 11, Dex 13, Int 21, Wis 13, Cha 12. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 10. AC: 21 Fort: 15 Reflex: 20 Will: 18 HP: 45 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 11 TRAINED SKILLS Arcana +13, Religion +13, History +13, Dungeoneering +9 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +4, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +4, Endurance +3, Heal +4, Insight +4, Intimidate +4, Nature +4, Perception +4, Stealth +6, Streetwise +4, Thievery +4, Athletics +2 FEATS Wizard: Ritual Caster Level 1: Improved Initiative Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff) Level 4: Enlarge Spell Level 6: Unarmored Agility Feat User Choice: Implement Expertise (Tome) Feat User Choice: Implement Expertise (Staff) Feat User Choice: Improved Defenses POWERS Tome of Readiness: Hypnotic Pattern Wizard at-will 1: Beguiling Strands Wizard at-will 1: Winged Horde Wizard encounter 1: Grasping Shadows Wizard daily 1: Phantom Chasm Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Arcane Whirlwind Wizard utility 2: Shield Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Mystical Debris Wizard encounter 3: Color Spray Wizard daily 5: Visions of Avarice Wizard daily 5 Spellbook: Summon Magma Beast Wizard utility 6: Emerald Eye Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Levitate Wizard encounter 7: Twist of Space ITEMS Spellbook, Adventurer's Kit, Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing), Accurate staff, Tome Implement ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ====== House Rules: -Super low magic (just got our first boon -- we get to pick a level 7 item to reskin as a boon from Hades) -Inherent Bonuses -Improved Defenses and old style Expertise feats are free -New style Expertise feats are banned (the DM thinks stuff like Staff Expertise is OP I guess)
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2011 01:03
|
|
|
Isn't there a Paragon Path for Tempest Fighters based around dual wieldign Rapiers?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2011 04:17
|
|
|
ImpactVector posted:So I'd like to turn the tables. Is Wizard still the reigning "lock down the monsters so hard the DM cries" class? Yeah, though a lot of people have been gravitating towards the Mage builds now. Personally, the only two implements masteries I really like are Orb of Imposition and Wand of Accuracy, while a lot of the Mage Schools are quite nice. Your power selection looks okay. I'm personally not a huge fan of grasping shadows (I much prefer the new twilight falls) but it's serviceable. I've never been impressed with twist of space, though I've heard good things about it. I've seen phantom foes put to good use, though. Visions of Avarice will just end encounters, I think you'll have fun with it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2011 05:50
|
|
|
J. Alfred Prufrock posted:So you might check out the hybrid Sentinel option if you want to keep your animal around. The only Sentinel I can find in the Compendium is the Druid option from Forgotten Kingdoms, but it doesn't mention any aura. What am I missing here? J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Your powers look good except for Flame Seed, which is a tad mediocre. I recommend Grasping Tide if you want an AoE (and you do). Done. I think the guy had me with Summon Stalking Panther instead of Faerie Fire, or maybe it was the other way around. J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Feats, on the other hand... Yeah, they're a mess. This is where most of the changes didn't get saved. I'll edit in the new ones first chance I get. J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Finally, get a neck slot item, they're kind of important. There was supposed to be a +3 Elven Cloak up there, guess it vanished too. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2011 12:50
|
|
|
The Sentinel and Hybrid Sentinel from HoTFK and D400 respectively both have an animal companion - bear or wolf. The bear has an aura 1 allies gain +2 power bonus to defences, the wolf has aura 1 enemies grant CA.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2011 12:53
|
|
|
How exactly is the Kulkor-cheese combination supposed to work?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:19
|
|
|
Kulkor Arms Master PP gives you a free-action MBA when you knock something prone. Knocking things prone is very easy to arrange thanks to the advent of World Serpent's Grasp among other features. A free MBA pretty much every turn ramps up your damage numbers to ridiculous levels, particularly on classes like the Slayer and Thief which do all their best work on MBAs anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:34
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:Kulkor Arms Master PP gives you a free-action MBA when you knock something prone. Knocking things prone is very easy to arrange thanks to the advent of World Serpent's Grasp among other features. A free MBA pretty much every turn ramps up your damage numbers to ridiculous levels, particularly on classes like the Slayer and Thief which do all their best work on MBAs anyway. Thieves have "Unbalancing Trick" which does the following: "Shift two squares. The next time that you hit an enemy with an MBA, knock it prone." So that sets up your Kulkor PP level 16 ability very well, as well as being charge prone, it's a mental combo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 02:35
|
|
|
KAM basically turns charging (the 2nd best way to do high dpr) into a bit weaker form of super multiattacking (the best way to do high dpr) but without losing any of what made the charging good in the first place. You can even work crit fishing (the 3rd best way to do high dpr) into it. Literally any melee class can get it going via the Half-Elf's Dilettante -> Eldrtich Strike + Polearm Momentum, too (since you have to be a fighter to qualify for KAM, you're automatically the right class for PM) and even if you're not a Half-Elf there are several classes that can prone on a charge, so it's pretty ubiquitous. The other big thing is that it's basically at-will. There are a lot of ways to generate more burst damage that KAM but not too many ways to put out the sustained dpr that it offers. For classes like the Thief, that are all about high sustained dpr (having little burst damage in paragon) it's really a no-brainer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 03:08
|
|
|
So Lair Assault is coming up. I'm interested to see what other groups are coming up with to take on the challenge. Supposedly it's really hard, so the PCs are supposed to go all-out and make a totally optimized party. Anybody have any cool tech to post?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 10:19
|
|
|
The first season's only level 5, which is gonna kinda suck, and it seems from what I've seen a couple of staff members saying on the WotC forums mention that part of the challenge is likely to be extended encounters without the ability to take a short rest. So, two ideas strike me, both of which require inter-party build co-operation: - The first is the old team-op standby of BeastArcher Ranger/Shaman/Mending Spirit. Everyone plays them, leaving you (assuming a complete party) with 6 encounter heals, 12 attacks per round (and probably an assortment of Disruptive Strikes, Fox's Cunnings, and Spitting Cobra Stances), and a wall of fur consisting of 6 spirit companions and 6 animal companions, to soak damage and take up the defending. A party which can basically nuke any dungeon without particular trouble. At 5th, they'd probably have to be bow users, because you need 3 feats for Superior Xbow, or that enchant that lets you load free but I think that's 7th - and you need 2 feats for shaman and mending spirit. They'd almost certainly have to be Human. - The second is 5 Warlords and a Slayer with a Hungry Gouge. Or 4 Warlords, a Knight, and a Slayer with a Hungry Gouge. Basically, I think the key point is going to be keeping a lot of healing on hand, so that you retain access to your surges in extended encounters, and getting the DPR out quickly, so you don't need them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 10:40
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Isn't there a Paragon Path for Tempest Fighters based around dual wieldign Rapiers? Think it's built around off hand light blades (if Shock Trooper is the one you are thinking of) - I made a halfling tempest fighter using that PP and 2x short swords. Really good damage, plus there are lots of powers that stack Str and Dex mods for damage. Mr Beens fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Aug 22, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 16:52
|
|
|
I'll be playing in a two-shot (with the potential for more) this weekend, and built a battlemind based on the Ronin polearm build at the CharOp boards: ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Battlemind, level 11 Half-Elf, Battlemind, Talaric Ironjack Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Constitution Psionic Study: Battle Resilience Half-Elf Power Selection: Dilettante Background: Geography - Forest (Perception class skill) FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 15, Con 21, Dex 16, Int 9, Wis 17, Cha 11. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 14, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10. AC: 27 Fort: 22 Reflex: 20 Will: 22 HP: 96 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 24 TRAINED SKILLS Insight +15, Diplomacy +12, Perception +13, Athletics +12 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +8, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +10, Heal +8, History +4, Intimidate +5, Nature +8, Religion +4, Stealth +8, Streetwise +5, Thievery +8 FEATS Level 1: Battle Awareness Level 2: Heavy Blade Expertise Level 4: Polearm Momentum Level 6: Melee Training (Constitution) Level 8: Swift Spear (retrained to Heavy Blade Opportunity at Level 11) Level 10: Blade Opportunist Level 11: Polearm Gamble POWERS Battlemind at-will 1: Twisted Eye Battlemind at-will 1: Bull's Strength Dilettante: Eldritch Strike Battlemind daily 1: Stolen Grace Battlemind utility 2: Dimension Slide Battlemind at-will 3: Iron Fist Battlemind daily 5: Nightmare Vortex Battlemind utility 6: Mental Triumph Battlemind at-will 7: Forceful Reversal (replaces Twisted Eye) Battlemind daily 9: Empathic Feedback Battlemind utility 10: Battle Aspect ITEMS Mind Hunter's Wyvernscale Armor +3, Githyanki Silver Glaive +2, Raven Cloak +2, Rushing Cleats (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Headband of Intellect (heroic tier), Mercurial Mind (heroic tier), Viper Belt (heroic tier) ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ====== Looking to tighten some things up, though. Heavy Blade Opportunity is awesome, but if I'm a half-elf with Eldritch Strike, is HBO worth the feat slot? When Eldritch Strike goes at-will through Versatile Master, should I be switching out Bull's Strength? And, unrelated note, why is the Headband of Intellect not applying to all my weapon abilities when the Githyanki Silver Glaive should make them all Psychic?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 23:27
|
|
|
tzirean posted:Looking to tighten some things up, though. Heavy Blade Opportunity is awesome, but if I'm a half-elf with Eldritch Strike, is HBO worth the feat slot? When Eldritch Strike goes at-will through Versatile Master, should I be switching out Bull's Strength? And, unrelated note, why is the Headband of Intellect not applying to all my weapon abilities when the Githyanki Silver Glaive should make them all Psychic? There's basically no need for a battlemind to have Dilettante, especially with HBO. As for your Githyanki Silver Glaive, you have to use an at-will to make the damage psychic, and the character builder doesn't recognize you as having done that. Get yourself some Psychic Lock next.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 23:33
|
|
|
DontMockMySmock posted:Get yourself some Psychic Lock next. That's the plan.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 23:38
|
|
|
Typically you choose between Dilettante + Versatile Master and HBO. Typically the VM route uses Eldritch Strike + Polearm Momentum + a Staggering weapon to slide and prone dudes. It gives you a little more freedom to choose where you want the baddy to be prone, compared to Bull's Strength which is always a push, but it does eat up your weapon slot instead of your feet slot. Either way, though, you don't need Melee Training, so replace that with something else (Superior Will Superior Will Superior Will). Also Improved Initiative is better for you than Battle Awareness and for the purposes of the two-shot move a point from Con to Wis.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 23:51
|
|
|
J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Typically you choose between Dilettante + Versatile Master and HBO. Typically the VM route uses Eldritch Strike + Polearm Momentum + a Staggering weapon to slide and prone dudes. It gives you a little more freedom to choose where you want the baddy to be prone, compared to Bull's Strength which is always a push, but it does eat up your weapon slot instead of your feet slot. This is what I was thinking: get Versatile Master, and give up the freedom to use "any at-will" in favor of the ability to slide. I don't see why a Staggering weapon would be necessary, though; the Rushing Cleats apply to slide effects as well. J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Either way, though, you don't need Melee Training, so replace that with something else (Superior Will Superior Will Superior Will). Also Improved Initiative is better for you than Battle Awareness and for the purposes of the two-shot move a point from Con to Wis. Battle Awareness is the Fighter multiclass; I think you were thinking of Battlewise. disaster pastor fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Aug 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 23:58
|
|
|
I still never got why anyone would take Forceful Reversal over lightning rush. Are you not running with any melee so monsters will just hit you by default? I guess that could be a DM thing too where they are really respecting your marks but my experience is with polearm momentum/gamble they will avoid getting close to you like the plague and you will need lightning rush to adequately protect your squishies.
adaz fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Aug 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 00:02
|
|
|
adaz posted:I guess that could be a DM thing too where they are really respecting your marks but my experience is with polearm momentum/gamble they will avoid getting close to you like the plague and you will need lightning rush to adequately protect your squishies. My thought process may be colored by the fact that my only other 4e DM respected my paladin's mark so much that he only ever ignored it by mistake.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 00:07
|
|
|
tzirean posted:My thought process may be colored by the fact that my only other 4e DM respected my paladin's mark so much that he only ever ignored it by mistake. When you start pushing people 3-4 squares and knocking them prone everytime they get adjacent to you he's going to avoid you like the goddamn plague. Also, battlemind mark is fairly situational and kind of weak to be honest (except against big bads, then it's awesome)
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 00:09
|
|
|
tzirean posted:This is what I was thinking: get Versatile Master, and give up the freedom to use "any at-will" in favor of the ability to slide. I don't see why a Staggering weapon would be necessary, though; the Rushing Cleats apply to slide effects as well. poo poo, you're right on both counts. Lack of sleep has wrecked my braincircuits harder than Polearm Momentum wrecks melee monsters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 00:15
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:The first season's only level 5, which is gonna kinda suck, and it seems from what I've seen a couple of staff members saying on the WotC forums mention that part of the challenge is likely to be extended encounters without the ability to take a short rest. So, two ideas strike me, both of which require inter-party build co-operation:
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 00:17
|
|
|
Updated: ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Battlemind, level 11 Half-Elf, Battlemind, Talaric Ironjack Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Constitution Psionic Study: Battle Resilience Half-Elf Power Selection: Dilettante Background: Geography - Forest (Perception class skill) FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 15, Con 20, Dex 16, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 11. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 14, Con 15, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10. AC: 27 Fort: 22 Reflex: 20 Will: 26 HP: 95 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 23 TRAINED SKILLS Insight +16, Diplomacy +12, Perception +14, Athletics +12 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +8, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +10, Heal +9, History +4, Intimidate +5, Nature +9, Religion +4, Stealth +8, Streetwise +5, Thievery +8 FEATS Level 1: Battle Awareness Level 2: Heavy Blade Expertise Level 4: Polearm Momentum Level 6: Superior Will Level 8: Swift Spear (retrained to Versatile Master at Level 11) Level 10: Blade Opportunist Level 11: Polearm Gamble POWERS Battlemind at-will 1: Twisted Eye Battlemind at-will 1: Bull's Strength Dilettante: Eldritch Strike Battlemind daily 1: Stolen Grace Battlemind utility 2: Dimension Slide Battlemind at-will 3: Iron Fist Battlemind daily 5: Nightmare Vortex Battlemind utility 6: Mental Triumph Battlemind at-will 7: Lightning Rush (replaces Twisted Eye) Battlemind daily 9: Empathic Feedback Battlemind utility 10: Battle Aspect ITEMS Mind Hunter's Wyvernscale Armor +3, Githyanki Silver Glaive +2, Raven Cloak +2, Rushing Cleats (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Headband of Intellect (heroic tier), Mercurial Mind (heroic tier), Viper Belt (heroic tier) ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ====== If Lightning Rush doesn't pay off for me, I'll swap it back for Forceful Reversal. Anything else I'm deficient in? And any suggestions for themes, also? (That is to say, since I'm not really familiar with them, does anything beat Noble Adept's extra power point?)
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 00:40
|
|
|
The fighter guardian theme thing gives you an encounter lightning rush basically. Also any particular reason you're using that Talaric Ironjack PP instead of iron guardian? It's the prototypical battlemind polearm build paragon path. e: MIght want to think about training endurance for reactive surge http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/display.aspx?page=power&id=11548
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 01:13
|
|
|
adaz posted:Also any particular reason you're using that Talaric Ironjack PP instead of iron guardian? It's the prototypical battlemind polearm build paragon path. Iron Guardian doesn't seem to do as much as Talaric Ironjack for this build. IG has an encounter proning ability, which isn't as cool when the battlemind is already proning on most successful attacks, and a free action slide that needs to be triggered by being pushed or slid but doesn't trigger Polearm Momentum. TI gives me +2 to all defenses when I use an unaugmented at-will (which I'll be doing quite often, as I'll need to save my power points for Lightning Rush), +4 to my next attack roll after using an action point vs. +4 to next damage roll from IG, and an encounter push that does trigger Polearm Momentum. Plus, IG's at-will utility 12 isn't as neat as it looks here, either; it halves damage with a chance of canceling it completely, but it prevents me from using, say, Bull's Strength, which has a (better) chance of proning the target two squares away, plus will give me +2 to all defenses if he manages to hit me anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:29
|
|
|
tzirean posted:Iron Guardian doesn't seem to do as much as Talaric Ironjack for this build. IG has an encounter proning ability, which isn't as cool when the battlemind is already proning on most successful attacks, and a free action slide that needs to be triggered by being pushed or slid but doesn't trigger Polearm Momentum. TI gives me +2 to all defenses when I use an unaugmented at-will (which I'll be doing quite often, as I'll need to save my power points for Lightning Rush), +4 to my next attack roll after using an action point vs. +4 to next damage roll from IG, and an encounter push that does trigger Polearm Momentum. Plus, IG's at-will utility 12 isn't as neat as it looks here, either; it halves damage with a chance of canceling it completely, but it prevents me from using, say, Bull's Strength, which has a (better) chance of proning the target two squares away, plus will give me +2 to all defenses if he manages to hit me anyway. Actually how it works is to use that level 12 utility CONSTANTLY. You then use your OAs (bull strength thanks to HBO) from polearm to push/knock prone every time they move close to you + lightning rush and 2 powerpoints to regain your standard to re-use iron will if they try and hit someone else. Repeat to infinity. You will almost never take damage (55% chance to take none) this way and still be very effective. Also I wouldn't worry too much about having too few powerpoints -- maybe you group is low on striker DPR but in general it's pretty much the first 2-3 rounds where you will need to use them then past that it's just mop up duty. adaz fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Aug 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 06:54
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Except the DM has carte blanch to completely screw these types of tactics. If the DM has carte blanche to screw player tactics, don't play. That's stupid. That's precisely what worries me about Lair Assault - with the emphasis on adversarial DMing, it's just asking for stupid 'rocks fall everyone dies' tactics, and I hate those. The emphasis really should have been on 'DMs, run this adventure fairly - don't sugar-coat it, run it as written', rather than 'KILL THEM ALL BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!'. The BeastArchers aren't an undefeatable group by any stretch of the imagination, but they're usually about as close as you're likely to get - high initiative, reasonably high defences, tons of HP to chuck about, DR and damage absorption, an assload of healing and most importantly, damage to make a nuke look petty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 09:54
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:If the DM has carte blanche to screw player tactics, don't play. That's stupid. That's precisely what worries me about Lair Assault - with the emphasis on adversarial DMing, it's just asking for stupid 'rocks fall everyone dies' tactics, and I hate those. The emphasis really should have been on 'DMs, run this adventure fairly - don't sugar-coat it, run it as written', rather than 'KILL THEM ALL BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!'. I'm not so sure the devs are into promoting that sort of play per se. I mean, I guess if they want to run counter to the advice in every 4e DMG they've ever released. There are, however, some builds that take advantage of obscure (dubious) rules interractions that sort of run counter to the spirit of the event. I mean, it's kind of like having a 3e challenge dungeon and then allowing Pun Pun. I get the feeling that they're going for "play challenge" and not "build challenge" if you know what I mean. In home games I can decide something is cheesy or doesn't fit with the style of game I want to run. While it's probably not possible to have that much control over a public event, I don't know what's wrong with allowing the DM, in some situations, to just say "No, I don't think that's going to work." Of course, I'm assuming everyone DMing this thing is reasonable and, well, this drat hobby. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 15:32
|
|
|
It's been promoted as 'you're all gonna die, bring your best poo poo, 80% chance of TPK' - if they then turn around and nuke 'your best poo poo' because they don't like CharOp, then what the gently caress is the point of the event at all? Neither of the suggested teams above plays with any rules loopholes or stupid broken-rear end poo poo. They're simply well-optimised and well-synergised uses of the rules as written. If I'd taken the time (and so had my friends, to be fair, neither of those teams really works unless all 5 players contribute) to bring my best and the DM shut it down, I'd be pretty pissed. If it was Assuming a reasonable DM would be fine, but I think this event will attract dick DMs like flies to rotten meat. I like the concept, particularly if it's been playtested to destruction, but the marketing has been iffy, and the chances of it having been playtested to destruction by the sort of players who are likely to come to that sort of event seem to me to be slim to none. I don't have high hopes for it. But I'm still mildly irritated I'll not be able to play, because apparently, gently caress Europe.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 16:47
|
|
|
quote:Neither of the suggested teams above plays with any rules loopholes or stupid broken-rear end poo poo. They're simply well-optimised and well-synergised uses of the rules as written. If I'd taken the time (and so had my friends, to be fair, neither of those teams really works unless all 5 players contribute) to bring my best and the DM shut it down, I'd be pretty pissed. If it was To be honest, I was assuming that stuff like you posted was not what they were talking about when they were discussing the ability of the DM to moderate character builds (I'm thinking more like feychargers and the like). I'm not even sure where they came out and said what they were doing wrt DMing this thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 17:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 06:30 |
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:Neither of the suggested teams above plays with any rules loopholes or stupid broken-rear end poo poo. They're simply well-optimised and well-synergised uses of the rules as written. If I'd taken the time (and so had my friends, to be fair, neither of those teams really works unless all 5 players contribute) to bring my best and the DM shut it down, I'd be pretty pissed. If it was thespaceinvader posted:If the DM has carte blanche to screw player tactics, don't play. That's stupid. That's precisely what worries me about Lair Assault - with the emphasis on adversarial DMing, it's just asking for stupid 'rocks fall everyone dies' tactics, and I hate those. The emphasis really should have been on 'DMs, run this adventure fairly - don't sugar-coat it, run it as written', rather than 'KILL THEM ALL BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!'. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 17:23
|
|