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Working on my resume now, don't think a PDF version of my LinkedIn profile is going to cut it in the future. I should stick to a single page, right? Especially since I don't have a million previous jobs to list.
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Aug 19, 2011 19:47
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Tricky Ed posted:designer stuff  DancingMachine posted:If you file another minor cosmetic issue as "must fix for ship" I am going to burn down the building. It's best when said while smiling, in the most calm, soothing voice you can manage (even if it's just to yourself, and no one else is around). It's useful because: a) It becomes funnier the more insane and desperate the situation is, and the closer you are to various deadlines. b) It makes people either roll their eyes and realize how stupid the situation is, or it makes them laugh. Either one is a win. c) Saying this is a good alternative to violence and arson, which tend to lead to prison and buttfuckery.
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Aug 19, 2011 23:28
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Akuma posted:So this is my next project. Seems way too premature to announce but I guess that's why they don't pay me the big(gest) bucks. Ahem, OUR project 
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Aug 19, 2011 23:43
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DancingMachine posted:If you file another minor cosmetic issue as "must fix for ship" I am going to burn down the building. CLASS D / Suggestion: Not enough red in the level True story
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Aug 20, 2011 01:06
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I overheard one of the UI guys talking about a bug someone sent in, saying (the game in general) wasn't enough like the previous game. I could feel the heat from rage two cubicle rows away.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:09
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:I overheard one of the UI guys talking about a bug someone sent in, saying (the game in general) wasn't enough like the previous game. I could feel the heat from rage two cubicle rows away. A day of fixing bugs that are direct contradictions of bugs you fixed no less than 12 hours ago makes you nothing short of the happiest person on the planet. krysmopompas fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 02:49
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I thought I had some QA horror stories, but some of the ones collected on the new comic the PA/PVP guy are working on together are horrifying.quote:Suppose you found a bug in a game that rendered a console unplayable? Suppose it was something akin to the original Myth II Uninstall problem where it basically formatted your hard drive, only worse? This is so terrifying I don't doubt its veracity, because I don't think anyone could make up something like that and expect anyone to believe them if it was fake.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:10
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krysmopompas posted:Oh that's nothing; you should hear us at 2:30 AM. Oh yeah I'm sure. I've only been here two weeks and heard that last wednesday. I imagine if I had to clear the bug queue I'd be sending the QA people notes in my own blood.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:36
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Fishbus posted:CLASS D / Suggestion: Not enough red in the level I would love it if people would file their suggestions as suggestion rather than "defect".
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Aug 20, 2011 05:07
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GetWellGamers posted:QA story As messed up as this is, I can't find any evidence that it's true. I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard to find news about a bug this bad, would it?
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Aug 20, 2011 06:38
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Violently Car posted:As messed up as this is, I can't find any evidence that it's true. I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard to find news about a bug this bad, would it? An A bug doesn't become an A because hitting it hard-crashes your game AND is likely to be hit. It becomes an A bug because ANY crash like that is HORRIBLE, and desperately needs to be fixed. Many are still edge-cases, and 99.9% of your users won't hit it... but that's irrelevant, since if even 0.1% hit it, you've quietly hosed a ton of client boxes in this case.
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Aug 20, 2011 06:39
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"I'd take weeks, we'd have to re-write the entire file structure" Or block the player from manual saving while an auto-save is happening, which would take about half an hour. Also not sure what the problem is with that class d/suggestion that the level isn't red enough. That's what suggestions are for. Close it, move on. Probably took long to hit reply and type it here. About 50% of all the "omg the QA here r so dum" stories I hear are developers being whiny bitches.
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Aug 20, 2011 09:01
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QA are an incredible resource and any dev that doesn't make full use of them is a loving rear end.
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Aug 20, 2011 09:23
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Aliginge posted:Ahem, OUR project So how's it working out being the only in-house artist? 
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Aug 20, 2011 10:16
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Shalinor posted:You'd be very, very surprised how many really horrible bugs get out the door that are then never reproduced, or, never reproduced consistently enough for users to catch on to what is actually happening. There's a saying I heard from a coworker who used to work in customer service which goes something like "If something has a 1/1,000,000 chance of happening, it will happen 7 times today and everyone involved will angrily call us about it."
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Aug 20, 2011 11:39
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GetWellGamers posted:I thought I had some QA horror stories, but some of the ones collected on the new comic the PA/PVP guy are working on together are horrifying. That one sounds familiar to me actually, think I know the guy who did that. Anyway, here's my current, web-safe CV. Please tell me if there's something I should change, if you know of something suitable for me, something I can do to be more employable, just anything, life is just unbearable for me now.
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Aug 20, 2011 13:50
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How are your project management skills? Our CEO is keen to find someone tenacious as a project manager who also has the sorts of things you list in your CV (build engineer, a bit of design, etc.) Do you have any experience with giving people a kick up the arse to get poo poo done?
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Aug 20, 2011 14:07
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Akuma posted:How are your project management skills? Our CEO is keen to find someone tenacious as a project manager who also has the sorts of things you list in your CV (build engineer, a bit of design, etc.) Actually yes, but they were always senior to me. Did a lot of senior/assistant lead stuff in publisher QA, but like my compliance work the didn't want to pay me for it or recognise it in my job title. So it's just my word I did it. As build technician I was basically a team of one, but I was always going to people to fix the poo poo they committed, and getting stuff out of people that allowed me to meet my targets. So yes, reckon I can do it if you think the desciders can be convinced.
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Aug 20, 2011 14:42
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krysmopompas posted:Oh that's nothing; you should hear us at 2:30 AM. After a few days of this I just sent the producer, Engineering Lead, and QA Lead a table I made in outlook with actions on one axis and timing on the other saying, "Pass this on to Publisher QA and Internal QA to fill out, Mark as green where we have it right and red as where we don't. If Publisher and Internal differ on their answer then get them in discussions until they agree. Once done I'll fix bug XXXXX and YYYY and ZZZZ" (All of which were contradictory about the same feature with the two QA groups going against each other, and themselves, each bug marked as A Blocker.)
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Aug 20, 2011 15:04
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Monster w21 Faces posted:QA are an incredible resource and any dev that doesn't make full use of them is a loving rear end. But there are times I would climb through a mile of sewage if it got me a solid QA Developer for a week. "So I made this horrifying fix that does fix this one bug but I'm concerned might, you know, break the rest of the game... what? You say you can build my branch and test it in place, without me having to submit to trunk and play chicken with the continuous integrator? I... just...  "
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Aug 20, 2011 17:07
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FreakyZoid posted:About 50% of all the "omg the QA here r so dum" stories I hear are developers being whiny bitches. The worst morale hit to QA that I've experienced was when everyone absolutely loved a feature, thoroughly tested that feature, reported many issues that we thought should be resolved to improve that feature, but the programmers turned around and said, "Hey, let's just remove that feature entirely, so we can clear out all of these issues and head to the brewery next door!" From QA's perspective, developers are likely to throw the baby out with the bathwater to avoid work. Developers, if you kill a feature that QA loves and then see mostly minor issues coming in, QA is afraid that you'll ruin the game even more.
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Aug 20, 2011 18:03
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Welcome to the world of scoping, where sometimes the features that everyone loves and wants get sacrificed on the altar of "we have a schedule to keep".
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Aug 20, 2011 18:13
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mastermind2004 posted:Welcome to the world of scoping, where sometimes the features that everyone loves and wants get sacrificed on the altar of "we have a schedule to keep".
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Aug 20, 2011 18:16
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FreakyZoid posted:"I'd take weeks, we'd have to re-write the entire file structure" It was an anecdote from a friend, so it was probably higher than D/suggestion, but it was very late in production so usually we're only expecting really important bugs at this time. I love our internal QA, but apparently I just hate them all secretly and bitch about them behind their backs. "Many of my good friends are QA" Also that 'being fired' guy after that bug incident isn't exactly conspiracy, QA tend to get thinned out after a project has shipped. It seemed pretty normal to me (unfortunatley). External QA, I can't say many good things about them, but I understand that they've got bullshit quota things to hit and it mostly isn't their fault. So Usually I'll just have a fun chat with them over the bug comments thread
Fishbus fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 18:33
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Oh yeah, wanted to apologize for the folk applying for Junior Env Artists positions at Splash Damage, The lead is currently having to sort out hires for senior and other artist positions right now and the Junior thing is sort of a unannounced side project. So You may have to wait a while for a response. I have reminded him and he will get back to you at some point. SOrry it's just taken so long but I hope you all understand
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Aug 20, 2011 21:29
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Shalinor posted:QA are... so so. I like my QA guys, but sometimes, it's a love/hate relationship. I was Dev QA. We could have had beautiful branch children.
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Aug 20, 2011 21:46
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FreakyZoid posted:Also not sure what the problem is with that class d/suggestion that the level isn't red enough. That's what suggestions are for. Close it, move on. Probably took long to hit reply and type it here. Then I've worked with QA that return bugs that I had flagged As Designed with capslock red text saying that they refuse to close the report because the issue is NOT ACCEPTABLE, and they will not close it until I FIX IT! The wing on his shoulderpad clips into his head for a single frame, you horse's rear end. Back off.
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Aug 20, 2011 21:46
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Hazed_blue posted:Then I've worked with QA that return bugs that I had flagged As Designed with capslock red text saying that they refuse to close the report because the issue is NOT ACCEPTABLE, and they will not close it until I FIX IT! I cannot think of a single place I've worked where that wouldn't get your rear end fired. Holy hell. 
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Aug 20, 2011 21:57
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Shalinor posted:
Couldn't you have just built it locally and handed off a one-off build to test with? I'm not undervaluing QA developers, I'm just saying, is this not an option for your workplace?
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Aug 21, 2011 02:18
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Shalinor posted:But there are times I would climb through a mile of sewage if it got me a solid QA Developer for a week. I would love to do stuff like this. I'm looking to get into games myself, but my C++ is a bit weak right now. I've done some work in it, and I've been (very slowly) trying to work with it again, but I've got a long way before I'd consider myself able to code games. That would be an excellent way to build skills/confidence in my ability to write code. I was a developer in prior jobs, just mostly VB/Web Dev type stuff, and it has it's perks, but the challenge just wasn't there. However, I can put together ideas and pseudocode/flowcharts for how I think something would work, though I have no idea if it's the best/most optimized thing. I've spent the last few months actively participating in an alpha/beta for a game that hasn't been released yet, and I actually found it quite fun. I know it's not always going to be sunshine and rainbows, but trying to figure out how X screwed up, running through it again (and again) to determine a repro and sending it to the devs has been pretty fun. I'd like to think that the fact that I played games at a pro/semi-pro level combined with my past developer experience has helped here, because it's helped me figure out what to look for, and how to report it. I've also gotten to know a good chunk of the development team as well, which is awesome. I'd like to work QA at a company that does respect it's QA department, and I think once I get settled in the first thing I'd do is talk to a dev lead and try to work out being able to test-in-place and submit patches for review. I know those companies are out there - I have some friends that work for another company and they're getting promoted from QA as a result of doing extra work to help out designers/artists on the side. Maybe I'm being idealistic, I dunno.
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Aug 21, 2011 03:00
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Chasiubao posted:Couldn't you have just built it locally and handed off a one-off build to test with? I'm not undervaluing QA developers, I'm just saying, is this not an option for your workplace? "Ok, wait, dammit, you got latest a few hours after me, so, ok, get latest NOW, and I will too, and now your built servers match my code, so now I'll build my client and get it to y- oh wait no, your servers are actually a version behind mine. Ok, screw it, I'll just give you all of the servers too. Oh, bug is stilll there? Ok, let me build EVERYTHING for you again, and..." (and all of that still requires them to have Perforce access and be able to run their own servers... which many do no not / can not) It ties the developer up for most of the day. It ends up being more efficient to just budge over and let them test on your machine, which also ties you up but for slightly less time. This, vs Dev QA, where I just say "hey, test that" and I never even break stride. Now ideally, you would architect your processes to not be this obnoxious, but our processes are not architected as such. It's also less irritating when not working on an MMO. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 05:44
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When we had our Perforce server upgraded to support shelving a year or two ago, that was the most amazing boost to development we have had in years. Far less "safety" check-ins, end of day check-ins to avoid "losing work", and so many other things are better now. Shelving quick tests and changes over to people, shelving over example code, shelving over assets required to test and implement a new feature. What I'm getting at is shelves should keep problems like what you guys are talking about from happening.
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Aug 21, 2011 06:35
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e: Disregard most of this post, I'm an idiot Diplomaticus posted:Q: I want to be a writer. The OP is too harsh about this; some developers do prefer to hire full-time writers. I don't currently work as a writer in the games industry, but I did in-house writing work on games as a paid intern (helping out an in-house writer) and I know a couple people who make a living as full-time, in-house writers for games. Big companies that make RPGs or MMOs -- like Blizzard, Bethesda, and Bioware -- employ a bunch of in-house writers because they don't want their games' writing to suck, as most contract writing does (even by game industry standards). Other companies such as Valve have well-known writers working in-house. Some smaller developers who make FPS titles that require writing also seem to have 1 or 2 designers in-house who handle writing tasks or rewrite/reorganize the poo poo that contract writers send in. That said, in my limited experience these jobs are extremely difficult to get, and virtually everyone is looking for a senior writer with years of experience, rather than a gamer with an English/creative writing degree and a mediocre NWN module. Manley Pointer fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 06:47
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Manley Pointer posted:Big companies that make RPGs or MMOs -- like Blizzard, Bethesda, and Bioware -- employ a bunch of in-house writers because they don't want their games' writing to suck, as most contract writing does (even by game industry standards). No. Not even close. Also you'll note I was referring to "full-time writers", which does not include: interns, designers on FPS that occasionally write something, short term contract writers, etc. Sorry to be a dick about it but almost everything in your post is wrong except for the general trend that yes, full-time writing is starting to become more of a thing now (but there is no evidence that the trend is going to necessarily continue if, as some people predict, the largest companies are going to be unsustainable in their budgets/costs and continue to spin off assets -- you can debate the likelihood of that all you like, but the point is that the future of hiring for writers is extremely murky) I've been a contract narrative designer. I've known far more contract writers/NDs than there are full time. And our writing generally "sucks even by game industry standards?" Tell that to Corvus or Rhianna or some of the more famous writers here. When you see bad game writing, most of the time you can blame the producer for cutting huge swathes without regard for how it will affect the narrative. A good producer will work with his writers to limit the damage, but that may not always be a possibility given where you are on your pipeline. -e- Also, having good writing chops and a solidly produced NWN module will go a very long way towards getting you hired when you don't have a portfolio. So I don't get your point there either. If your work is only mediocre why would you expect to be hired in a competitive market? Make a GREAT module, write some short works unrelated to the industry you can use to supplement your portfolio. If your poo poo is mediocre, that's your fault, not the hiring party's. Leif. fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 07:52
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is NWN still used quite a lot or is it more of a proof I can write for games type deal?
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Aug 21, 2011 08:24
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Hey, sorry if my post was off-base: I tried to foreground it by saying that my knowledge was basically from a stint as an intern, and secondhand from the guys I know in the industry. You clearly have more experience with this than I do, so I probably should have shut the gently caress up. I read the OP as saying "there are zero full-time writing jobs in the game industry" and I still don't think that's true. Bioware and Blizzard both have job listings that appear to be for full-time writers up on their sites. Basically what I had heard about contract writing was that the quality of writers varies, and publishers will contract stuff to Hollywood people with screenwriting experience who turn out to know nothing about game scripts. Also there will be all kinds of problems with miscommunications about the tone of the game, or levels getting cut until the story that the contractor sent no longer makes sense. I know of one game where the big name-on-the-box contract writer didn't contribute a single word to the actual game script. So basically I had heard bitching about contract writers from in-house people who thought that getting scripts from anyone who doesn't sit in design meetings creates problems. Sorry to be a jackass and complain about contract writers in general, clearly there are plenty of good writers around doing contract work. Manley Pointer fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 08:40
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Solus posted:is NWN still used quite a lot or is it more of a proof I can write for games type deal? It's a proof/portfolio piece; it's actually more to show that you understand the scripting process and can integrate your writing successfully into the game's toolset. Manley Pointer posted:I read the OP as saying "there are zero full-time writing jobs in the game industry" and I still don't think that's true. quote:Basically what I had heard about contract writing was that the quality of writers varies, True of any position. quote:and publishers will contract stuff to Hollywood people with screenwriting experience who turn out to know nothing about game scripts. Happens occasionally but much the exception rather than the norm. Also, many "games-first" writers supplement themselves by screenwriting or playwriting out of necessity (gotta eat.) quote:Also there will be all kinds of problems with miscommunications about the tone of the game, or levels getting cut until the story that the contractor sent no longer makes sense. That's a hallmark of a bad producer and possibly a bad creative director. quote:I know of one game where the big name-on-the-box contract writer didn't contribute a single word to the actual game script. So basically I had heard bitching about contract writers from in-house people who thought that getting scripts from anyone who doesn't sit in design meetings creates problems. Sorry to be a jackass and complain about contract writers in general, clearly there are plenty of good writers around doing contract work. Sounds like a producer problem again. Anyway no hard feelings from me, it's just that I wrote it that way in the OP for a reason because people tend to have a misshapen idea of the writing/ND side of the industry and seem to think that writing bad fanfic/slash is good enough and that you can become a games writer simply by being a gamer and making GBS threads on other people's work; if you simply view it from the "no jobs, die alone" viewpoint, you're at least closer to the real deal from the beginning.
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Aug 21, 2011 13:26
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The "no game writing jobs" section is basically there for the same reason as the "no one gets hired out of QA" bit. There obviously are game writing jobs, but they're exceedingly rare and they're not going to be hiring someone who's never written professionally to fill them. Also most people think "game writer" is "ideas guy," which is of course the job everyone wants*. The OP is the "Here be Dragons" to keep the people who don't know better away. It's not that there aren't dragons, you just have to know how to slay them. *There is one Idea Guy, and his name is Will Wright. If you are not him, you need a different goal. Tricky Ed fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Aug 22, 2011 |
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Aug 22, 2011 09:42
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Tricky Ed posted:The "no game writing jobs" section is basically there for the same reason as the "no one gets hired out of QA" bit. There obviously are game writing jobs, but they're exceedingly rare and they're not going to be hiring someone who's never written professionally to fill them. Also most people think "game writer" is "ideas guy," which is of course the job everyone wants*. (he self-publishes fan fiction-level stuff through vanity press) 
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Aug 22, 2011 15:39
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Shalinor posted:Yes. Like my friend, who applied to the quest writing position for Blizzard, and when I tried to tell him how hard a job that is to get: "Oh, but I've been playing WoW for 5 years, and I'm a writer." 
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Aug 22, 2011 16:19
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