|
If you only need to design mechs, Solaris Skunk Werks is a good free program. http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 16:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:11 |
|
|
A, because I really want to see how this particular story ends up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 16:59
|
|
|
Voting D
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 17:08
|
|
|
D MYSTERY BOX
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 17:19
|
|
|
Voting for the mystery box, D. New Rim Worlds Republic?  T.G. Xarbala posted:Who knows, Stefan Amaris VII might actually be a good guy. I don't think that would change the fact that the Clans are going to go completely loving loco the moment they hear of this. A living Amaris heir? Jesus Christ, I don't think there's any bigger of a red flag you could possibly bring up. Artificer posted:I'm not quite understanding what the recent political updates mean. Does anyone have a short summary/explanation for what's going on, and what implications they have? The Rim Worlds Republic was a periphery state back in Star League times. And Stefan Amaris was the guy that killed the First Lord, took over Terra and kicked off the bloodiest war in BT history, which in turn crashed the Star League and caused the Succession Wars. In-universe, he's gone down in history as being like Hitler, just worse and the poo poo he's done during the Star League Civil War justifies it. In the canon timeline, a distant heir turned up sometimes in the 3050's and tried to put the RWR together again, but was stomped on by the FWL for wanting part on their turf. Adn because the whole family is basically Kill-On-Sight for jsut about loving everyone in the IS. Now the Clans are the descendents of General Kerensky's SLDF, which fought Stefan Amaris in the Star League Civil War before going into exile. A living descendant of the man? That's the kind of thing where they could literally decide to abort the entire drat invasion and fly to the other end of the IS to kill that one man. And his family. And his friends. And anyone who ever met him. Magni fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 21, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 17:21
|
|
|
Magni posted:Now the Clans are the descendents of General Kerensky's SLDF, which fought Stefan Amaris in the Star League Civil War before going into exile. A living descendant of the man? That's the kind of thing where they could literally decide to abort the entire drat invasion and fly to the other end of the IS to kill that one man. And his family. And his friends. And anyone who ever met him. This is basically accurate, and if anything would be WORSE in PTN-canon. After all, in this canon, the Clans have to add "settle a 250 year old humiliation" on top of literally everything else because Kerensky did not (  )defeat Amaris.
Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Aug 21, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 17:41
|
|
|
And THAT is why I voted A.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 17:44
|
|
|
Xmas Future posted:If you only need to design mechs, Solaris Skunk Werks is a good free program. I need it for a little more than just designing 'Mechs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 17:57
|
|
|
B Nothing beats more IS scum killing each other.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 17:59
|
|
|
To put how much of a hate-on the Clans have for Amaris in perspective... In the book Star Lord, there is a Steel Viper named Dawn, who is very much hated by her Clan, for a number of reasons. 1: She's like, the last living Warden in a Clan which has gone completely Crusader. 2: She survived Tukyyaid with her command by ordering a retreat. In Clan society, that's about as bad as dropping your shield would have been to the Spartans. 3: She got her command smashed when she attacked a world where, unbeknownst to her and her intelligence (such as it was,) there were already other units attacking. (They belonged to the last heir of Amaris, but that's kind of unimportant to this discussion.) She was accused of bidding low, and apparently all the BattleROMs were too damaged to give an accurate assessment of the fact that there were far more enemies there than she could have counted on. Basically, they wanted her dead, but the only thing they wanted more than her death was her utter disgrace. So they had two MechWarriors and an elemental beat the poo poo out of her in front of her entire Clan (being a protagonist, she put up a good fight and put down at least one of the MechWarriors before the Elemental wrecked her poo poo,) and they shipped her off to Galatea, the old Mercenary's Star. She wound up linking up with the other protagonists of the book and they caught the Amaris guy. He tried to offer her everything, she shot him and cut off his head and stuck it in a freezer-bag, then somehow made her way back to Viper space. They were ready to execute her outright when she walked in, then she pulled out that head and declared that she had finished what Kerensky had not, and slain the last living heir of Amaris. All was forgiven and then some. So, yeah. They have a bit of a hateboner on for anything with Stefan Amaris' name. And by that I mean the assessment of "derail the entire Invasion and run straight across the Sphere to glass every tiny world in this small periphery power" isn't really inaccurate at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 18:09
|
|
|
PoptartsNinja posted:Solaris doesn't really divide fights up by weight; you could pit a stinger against a Rifleman Bah, my only info on Solaris came from Mechwarrior 4. They made extensive use of weight classes there, with Fisher babbling on about his time as a medium class jock. Oh well, shame it's too early in the timeline to murder Jeremiah Rose.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 18:31
|
|
|
Mukaikubo posted:This is basically accurate, and if anything would be WORSE in PTN-canon. After all, in this canon, the Clans have to add "settle a 250 year old humiliation" on top of literally everything else because Kerensky didn't defeat Amaris. Watch it with the contractions, Inner Sphere scum.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 18:34
|
|
|
Rick_Hunter posted:Watch it with the contractions, Inner Sphere scum. Do not think so highly of yourself, bondsman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 18:52
|
|
|
Hm. My problems seem to extend past HeavyMetal. Quite a few applications with a "two-stage" launch appear to be having issues.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 18:53
|
|
|
landcollector posted:Do not think so highly of yourself, bondsman. Not all who would ally with the Clans are bondsmen. If I must choose between fuckups who sound the death knell of millions for the sake of petty politics and pride and fuckups who sound their own death knells, individually or in small groups, for the sake of perceived honor, I will choose the latter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 18:59
|
|
|
Voting for D: ??? because seeing Goonstar try to hold itself to zell and failing is going to be awesome.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:23
|
|
|
Zikan posted:Voting for D: ??? because seeing Goonstar try to hold itself to zell and failing is going to be awesome. GoonStar is going to be HIGH AS poo poo ON SPACE SCORPION VENOM.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:24
|
|
|
AtomikKrab posted:GoonStar is going to be HIGH AS poo poo ON SPACE SCORPION VENOM. The Scorpions don't use necrosia in PTN's universe.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:29
|
|
|
Amaris!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:29
|
|
|
I want to see the Legions regain their lost honor! C!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:35
|
|
|
A. Because holy poo poo, we need to see it sooner or later. Also, to clarify: I'm assuming that the existence of the NRWR there means that the Magistracy of Canopus, Marian Hegemony, and Circinus Federation et. al. don't exist in this timeline? Or did they up until recently, and were absorbed by the NRWR?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 19:45
|
|
|
PoptartsNinja posted:Hm. My problems seem to extend past HeavyMetal. Quite a few applications with a "two-stage" launch appear to be having issues. Is it actually a Java issue?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 20:51
|
|
|
Fraction Jackson posted:A. Because holy poo poo, we need to see it sooner or later. A little of column A, a little of column B. The RWR had a political system that worked in the Periphery. They ingratiated themselves to the locals while quietly squeezing the leadership into eventually saying "gently caress it, we'll join the RWR--it's just easier (and healthier for us) that way."
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 20:53
|
|
|
drat, I really like A, but I really want to see D. But B involves Towne, and that does my clickytech heart proud. Random chance says my vote is A!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 21:09
|
|
|
Towne militia has a nice ring to it, but C) 4th Legion of Vega.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 21:16
|
|
|
D! LPL and ERPPC for everyone!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 22:41
|
|
|
latest vote count- A)11 B)8 C)10 D)28 E)11
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 22:42
|
|
|
Tran posted:Bah, my only info on Solaris came from Mechwarrior 4. They made extensive use of weight classes there, with Fisher babbling on about his time as a medium class jock. Well, he was made up for the game specifically, so they could have him say whatever they wanted. While Solaris didn't actually have specific weight classes people fought in, they did operate as a number of stables (with a few independents), and the stables were generally aligned with one of the Great Houses. Fights were often set up with grudge matches between stables, or the Houses the stables supported, to draw interest. The actual fight was set up to try and make it so either side could win so that betting was profitable for the bookmakers. Usually this meant two fairly even mechwarriors would fight in mechs of similar weight class. But if one was far more skilled than the other, he might take a lighter mech to a) show off and b) have a handicap to actually get the match approved. There were also team fights and that kind of thing. I have to admit, I'd probably piss away my paycheck each week betting on the giant robot fights if they existed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:12
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Not all who would ally with the Clans are bondsmen. If I must choose between fuckups who sound the death knell of millions for the sake of petty politics and pride and fuckups who sound their own death knells, individually or in small groups, for the sake of perceived honor, I will choose the latter. Clanners are... probably even worse, based on the events of the Wars of Reaving.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:30
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:Clanners are... probably even worse, based on the events of the Wars of Reaving. What Wars of Reaving? I could have sworn the setting entered stasis and was left to die in dignity around the time something called the Word of Blake started to be talked up...
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:36
|
|
|
The Solaris Weight Class system makes a lot of sense, especially for tournament "seasons". Of course, one-off fights or even individual competitions don't have to limit by weight, but for a regular sporting event, you'll want to enforce some sort of system that ensures everyone has atleast a chance.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:37
|
|
|
What ensures everyone has a chance is that you generally don't call out a guy who rolls in an Atlas when you've got a Jenner. Much like autoracing, if you're not being backed by the guy who can afford the best stuff, you're not actually in contention to win it all. You might fluke a win now and then, but over the course of the season, the poor man's stables aren't going to win titles.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:43
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:The Solaris Weight Class system makes a lot of sense, especially for tournament "seasons". Of course, one-off fights or even individual competitions don't have to limit by weight, but for a regular sporting event, you'll want to enforce some sort of system that ensures everyone has atleast a chance. The most hilarious victory in Solaris VII's grand championship (gigantic loving brawl) is to bring the smallest, fastest Light 'mech you can loaded down with NARC beacons. Use all the big guys with missiles to assassinate each other, then leg the last guy with your light machinegun. Me, I went for the more traditional approach of a Stone Rhino II/Marauder IIC with a Clan Rail Gun (think "Naval Gauss Rifle") and twin cERLLs. Not as hilariously epic, but certainly awesome, to be piloting a 100-ton Juggernaut of destruction. And since you can't bet on yourself and 200:1 odds in a Flea with all of your unit's money riding on your victory, you may as well. Besides, I'm reasonably sure that would bankrupt Solaris VII if you did win with like, a hundred and fifty million C-Bills riding on you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:48
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:What Wars of Reaving? I could have sworn the setting entered stasis and was left to die in dignity around the time something called the Word of Blake started to be talked up... Oh come now. Genocidal Homeworld Clans! The guys back in the Kerensky Cluster finally have something to do. And also the proud warrior race gets their shiny shoes scuffed, which is fine by me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:50
|
|
|
D, mystery box!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:52
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:Oh come now. Genocidal Homeworld Clans! The guys back in the Kerensky Cluster finally have something to do. And also the proud warrior race gets their shiny shoes scuffed, which is fine by me. I have Warhammer 40k for when I want neverending war and chaos and bastardry, thanks. I never found BattleTech interesting as a war-focused setting, and I think something along the lines of a Reformation in space or the French Revolution or the rise of nationalism or the rise of America/Germany/Italy from the scattered micro-states of the Periphery to pose a viable challenge to the Inner Sphere or something else along those lines would have been far more interesting than the silliness that actually happened in the timeline.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:55
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I have Warhammer 40k for when I want neverending war and chaos and bastardry, thanks. I never found BattleTech interesting as a war-focused setting, and I think something along the lines of a Reformation in space or the French Revolution or the rise of nationalism or the rise of America/Germany/Italy from the scattered micro-states of the Periphery to pose a viable challenge to the Inner Sphere or something else along those lines would have been far more interesting than the silliness that actually happened in the timeline. I actually agree with a bit of this sentiment, though not for reasons you might think. And namedropping 40K is a bit tasteless and not well-warranted. Ever since the start of it the Battletech timeline plot has been pretty silly. It's basically a space soap opera with the occasional "great big throwdown event" to shake things up a bit. Each of the main timeline "eras" as defined now can basically be centered on a shake-up and with few exceptions you can see things from the "main line" approach something akin to the old status quo every time. For example, whenever a minor power emerges from within the IS proper something happens to slap it down again. With the Free Rasalhague Republic it was the Clan Invasion, with St. Ives it was Sun Tzu getting his scheme on. That the Clans persist is a notable exception, but after the Clan Invasion they've entered themselves into the "new" status quo that has remained largely unchanged even with new shakeups. They've become familiar since their (popular) introduction and familiarity is safe. And the Clans themselves threatened to enter an even worse rut than the Inner Sphere powers since until the Wars of Reaving nothing happened with the Homeworld Clans. Any comparison to 40K has to take into account that 40K is infamous for being a largely static setting and any change is immediately disliked by the fanbase. The Wars of Reaving takes a lot of wind out of any Clan-Romanticist sails and irrevocably alters the face of politics in the Clan Homeworlds in an interesting and, sadly, logical way that follows the breakdown of the Clan political equilibrium. It's inevitable that a warrior society without real war would break down into petty politics and bloody reprisals. Note that even the real-world samurai, whose culture promoted honor to the utmost, were in the end just as vulnerable to human failings as individuals and as a society as anybody else was. That the Clans also had the idea of superiority to the Inner Sphere "barbarians" as a cultural touchstone also smacks of supremacist sentiments found in real-world history. That they directed their exterminations inward first is a result of their own culture's internal stressors coming into play. Japanese supremacy and atrocities that came about because of it, was mostly directed outwards. (As an aside, the pro-Scientist chalcas terrorist movement known as "The Society" did even more damage to the Kerensky Cluster and the Pentagon Worlds than the original reavings themselves, but caste conflict was something that also smacked of inevitability in the Clan social system. That it was suppressed so effectively is a bit of a shame. Frankly, I would've liked to have seen a Scientist-ruled tyrannical empire rise to eventually threaten the Inner Sphere and the Clan nations settled within, but unfortunately that would've been too radical a change seeing as how it kind of comes out of nowhere. And it would unsettle Clan-fans too much, whereas the Wars of Reaving as is happens to be regarded fairly well.) One the topic of disliked changes... While the Dark Ages has been controversial and ultimately ill-advised, it was a pretty big risk in that it actually introduced a new, significant power (through plot contrivance) to the setting. Admittedly it's one that's besieged and seemed poised to dissolve away as the Hegemony once did, thereby slipping back into the old rut. That the entire setup was an attempt to return the setting to something resembling the 3025 state of the setting (and even technology!) was not a good thing, and that killed a lot of DA's longterm appeal when the novelty faded. Both 40K and Battletech has one thing in common: They're both remarkably resilient to meaningful change in their settings. Though to a lesser degree on the latter's part, as unlike 40K's fanbase, Battletech players like to see history unfold. Dark Ages was something of a betrayal of that, since the immediate jump a half century ahead breaks the flow of setting history and the premise smacked of a reboot. And that's setting aside the Clix system. On the idea of a Peripheral resurgence: There's not much room for Periphery nationalism binding them together as they're all pretty nationalist towards their little individual home countries, moreso than the Inner Sphere traditionally has been. The last time the Periphery states felt a sense of pride and nationalism towards their non-Spheroid status was when the ruler of the greatest Periphery power, the Rim Worlds Republic, took over the Star League in a bloody coup. It would be pretty interesting if it were to somehow happen, though. EDIT: Cripes I'm becoming the  guy.
Runa fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 22, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 00:53
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:EDIT: Cripes I'm becoming the Do not stop talking. I am so into you right now. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 01:04
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:I actually agree with a bit of this sentiment, though not for reasons you might think. And namedropping 40K is a bit tasteless and not well-warranted. *shrug* I'm a fan of both settings (within reason for BattleTech), and it felt like a reasonable comparison. "T.G. Xarbala posted:*snip* I agree with some of your rationale, but not all. WH40k is, in my opinion, a reasonable use of a static setting because there is so much going on within it. It very effectively makes use of an entire galaxy by making it so big that lots and lots of stories, even apparently significant ones like the Sabbat Worlds Crusade of Gaunt's Ghosts and connected stories, are only a drop in the bucket. The setting as a whole doesn't need to move on because there's no need to. The setting's tagline is unending war, and the fanbase (including me) likes it as such. BattleTech is a different story. It's a much smaller setting: there are four big Inner Sphere powers, plus ComStar and the Clans. None have much depth. Individual planets and regiments within a power have a little variation, but not much. Most of the Clans aren't very distinct, either. They can all be represented using roughly the same rules, just using partially different units from each other. Okay, ComStar has LosTech. But other than that, they fight like any other Mech force would with any given force beyond having different objectives. BattleTech blew its chance to add depth to the setting by seriously distinguishing its factions, I think. What if Steiner, Marik, Liao, Kurita, and Davion lances had to act differently, be deployed differently, and have completely different mechs, weapons, and tactics with little to no overlap? What if a given Clan's force had to include at least one totem mech, determined by individual Clan or other restrictions/modifications? Digging into narrative rather than gameplay examples: what if a sourcebook on the Clans revealed that the Warrior caste may be the caste the Inner Sphere sees all the time and hogs all the glory, but back home actually has a minimal role and the Clan homeworlds are really run by other castes who shake their heads and sigh at the warriors? What if the Free Worlds League actually was democratic and Marik was just a figurehead or even uninvolved? What if the Rasalhague Republic or Ghost Bear Dominion stayed in power? Heck, what if the Clan Romanticists were instead right, and the Clans were in fact a better place to live on average than the Inner Sphere? But BattleTech sacrificed depth that way, and decided to go with a progressing timeline instead. Fair enough, but the problem is that the depth didn't stay. Everything eventually went back to the status quo, followed by the reset button of the Dark Ages. Then the Wars of Reaving pop up to explain why the Clans were completely ignored during all of this, instead of actually portraying what was happening on the Periphery, in Clan space, and everywhere else as the setting evolved. Again, not bad in and of itself, but in view of the setting's evolution it strikes me as shoehorning in "Oops, we completely forgot about these guys, so what can we come up with to retroactively explain why they weren't around..." Yes, 40k has some similar things, dropping a Hive-Fleet and a Space Marine chapter, among other things, on races/factions that the developers wanted to get rid of, but it comes across as far less "Uh, whoops" than the Wars of Reaving. Now to be fair, BattleTech is not as big a game as 40k and is not as broadly developed, nor is it like 40k didn't have its dork ages as well. But I do think BattleTech, although having some great ideas and concepts to play around with, used them poorly. Tl;dr:
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 01:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:11 |
|
|
So basically "what if stuff was totally different from what they were supposed to be" and some complaining about a questionably existent Status Quo. Gotcha
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2011 01:29
|
|
