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Tolain posted:Lack of a dedicated grenade button is hard to go back to, too. A thousand times this. I don't know what game to thank for it (Halo?) but a dedicated throw grenade button is one of the best modern FPS gameplay enhancements. Tolain posted:quake 2: Never played this at launch, sadly this has not aged nearly as well. The starting blaster is horrible, enemy ai is stupid as gently caress, stage design is awful (a hell of a million switches, bad platforming, and backtracking), and weapons are underwhelming and boring, especially since enemies are total bullet sponges. You didn't think the enemies in Quake were bullet sponges? Those goddamn knights that are everywhere take 5+ super shotgun blasts, the beasts 4+, and everything else is just as tough. It gets really annoying really fast. Maxwell Adams posted:You really don't want to play the Quake 2 expansions. Unless your goal is to witness horrible enemy design and horrible maps, stay away. Yeah I thought I was near the end of Quake 2: The Reckoning but it turns out I was only to the Moon Base which sounds cool but it's just more of the same but now every room is filled with those laser grunts. Yes I loving love enemies with weapons that fire on you as soon as any pixels enter their line of sight, drain your health ultra fast, and are impossible to dodge. Every room just drains your life so goddamn fast it's obnoxious. 22 Eargesplitten posted:Are there any good map packs for Quake 1? That was some of the most fun I ever had with an FPS, but I don't want to go back and play the same levels another time. Is there anything that's just like the original maps, but more of it? Play Scourge of Armagon. Don't play Dissolution of Eternity. And yeah Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil is a really good expansion. Definitely play that. And for the record I still really like Half-Life and HL2. 
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Aug 22, 2011 14:53
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Yodzilla posted:A thousand times this. I don't know what game to thank for it (Halo?) but a dedicated throw grenade button is one of the best modern FPS gameplay enhancements.
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Aug 22, 2011 14:58
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I remember at the time I didn't understand how modems or connecting to others worked, so one day I was like, I'LL HOST A GAME. Gave someone the phone number, not knowing anything about ip addresses. He phoned my house with his modem, my parents got a call at 2am from some screechy system. That wasn't a good day, haha. I didn't get much multiplayer in back than which might explain why I don't really care for it as an adult. I played with bots most of the time in Quake. Never really getting into MP until I had DSL in 97 and just playing Starcraft.
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Aug 22, 2011 16:34
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Are there any good map packs for Quake 1? That was some of the most fun I ever had with an FPS, but I don't want to go back and play the same levels another time. Is there anything that's just like the original maps, but more of it? There are metric tons of them. http://haukerehfeld.de/projects/quakeinjector/ covers those that are pretty close to vanilla-Quake. There are also many good ones that use some sort of gameplay mod. For many recent maps you may need to use a more recent Quake engine. See my other posts in this thread for recommendations. I don't think I'll get into typing up lots of specific map recommendations right now, but FWIW I'm enjoying the "Arcanum" mini-episode. Although I hear it has a save/load bug in later maps. http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60527 has a download link for Arcanum, and a discussion of how to work around the bug in post #230. The Quake screenshots on my Steam profile include several from the first few maps of Arcanum, among others: http://steamcommunity.com/id/jlaw/screenshot/595820175237906683?tab=public&filter=app_2310
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Aug 22, 2011 16:39
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Yesterday I started They Flesh Consumed for the first time, and holy crap I can finally understand all the  reactions that the mere mention of E4M2 seems to induce. But beating that level on Ultra-Violence is definitely the most badass I've felt playing a game in a while. I guess I'll spoiler my discussion of it:It seems like a level that forces you to make a lot of correct decisions, rather than just "shooting things well." For example, it really opened things up when I tricked the enemies into fighting each other right from the start, instead of just instinctively gunning down those first two shotgun guys from behind. Once you've got an imp/shotgunner/cacodemon crossfire going, it's not too hard to pick off the smarter cacodemons before they get too close. After that I made a point skipping the first switch, jumping both gaps and shooting the barons of hell through the window. Then when I hit the switch and hopped into the side room, I just got the hell out as soon as I grabbed the plasma rifle. Since I had already cleared out the teleporter room (through the window before) I was able to get back in the main room, take out the fresh barons from there, and get the yellow key once the dust had settled. Everything was pretty straightforward from then on. Although I have no idea how I'd approach this one from a clean pistol start.  Also it didn't occur to me until afterwards that I could just telefrag the cyberdemon. 
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Aug 22, 2011 16:44
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Essobie posted:The weapon progression was obviously based on the single player experience, with a number of guns being mostly useless in DM (see Nailgun and Super Nailgun). Cream-of-Plenty posted:Medal of Honor and Call of Duty are the games you should be shaking your fist at, though. They've paved the way for years of boilerplate shooters with the creativity of a dimestore romance novel. If you've played one, you've played all of them.
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Aug 22, 2011 16:52
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Vintersorg posted:I remember at the time I didn't understand how modems or connecting to others worked, so one day I was like, I'LL HOST A GAME. Gave someone the phone number, not knowing anything about ip addresses. He phoned my house with his modem, my parents got a call at 2am from some screechy system. My parents put up with this poo poo from me for years. MOM DON'T PICK UP THE PHONE WE'RE PLAYING ONLINE! DAD NO YOU CAN'T USE IT FOR THE NEXT THREE HOURS! GODDAMMIT MOM I TOLD YOU NOT TO PICK UP THE PHONE!! OneEightHundred posted:COD was a natural progression from the Half-Life silent protagonist linear setpiece shooter concept. The only things that ever changed was they started ripping off Halo's gameplay wholesale since the second installment, eventually replaced Nazis with generic Middle Eastern and former Soviet state terrorists, and also started throwing a lot of money at it. The first two Medal of Honor games on the PS1 were great games and completely different than Allied Assault which paved the way for CoD and all its copycats. The first two MoH games were very subdued and not nearly as over-the-top as the rest that followed. I found them to be much more engrossing games than the ones where you mow down a thousand Nazis by the time you're finished. The whole playing as a female French Underground agent disguised as a photographer in the second MoH was fantastically done. Those games weren't afraid to throw goofy poo poo in there either with secret levels comprised of animated suits of armor and dancing dogs. Man those were awesome games.
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Aug 22, 2011 16:58
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Essobie posted:I would argue that the multiplayer in Quake 1 felt tacked on, and didn't actually take off until QuakeWorld made it possible for people to not jump into lava on accident if they happened to be playing outside of a LAN environment (or a college T1). The weapon progression was obviously based on the single player experience, with a number of guns being mostly useless in DM (see Nailgun and Super Nailgun). Now that you're saying this - it's possible that I started playing Q2 when the dms were already out - my PC at the time of release couldn't handle it. So I continued playing Q1 multiplayer. After my PC got the upgrade - Q2 multi was already in full swing so I basically discovered a paradise. So yeah, you're right - I got lucky with my timing. I know which interview with Carmack you mean - I remember him saying that too. It was more of an impression I had when Q3 launched that it played exactly like Q2 and I just couldn't shake the feeling that they simply took lessons from it, realized that the game lives on multi so long after the release and risked with a multiplayer-only shooter. I mean Q3 has nothing to do with Q1 multi - it's like a tweaked Q2 so I felt immediatelly at home.
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Aug 22, 2011 17:05
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I view Half Life 2 and Halo as fantastic games that spawned an industry of derivatives. I'm reminded of the old Hollywood studio system. Some of the originals were outright amazing, but for decades afterwards the industry was obsessed with churning out the same crap over and over again, while failing to recreate what made the originals so amazing. The gaming industry seems to be where Hollywood was 50 years ago.
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Aug 22, 2011 17:13
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THE HORSES rear end posted:I view Half Life 2 and Halo as fantastic games that spawned an industry of derivatives. I'm reminded of the old Hollywood studio system. Some of the originals were outright amazing, but for decades afterwards the industry was obsessed with churning out the same crap over and over again, while failing to recreate what made the originals so amazing. The one thing that definitely lasted was the visual impact of reminding everybody that global illumination and photosourced textures really do make your game look good. It kind of defeated Doom 3's "hey guys, SHADOWS!" approach for the next 5 years in that regard. quote:The gaming industry seems to be where Hollywood was 50 years ago. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 22, 2011 |
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Aug 22, 2011 18:21
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Yodzilla posted:You didn't think the enemies in Quake were bullet sponges? Those goddamn knights that are everywhere take 5+ super shotgun blasts, the beasts 4+, and everything else is just as tough. It gets really annoying really fast. hmm, for some reason it didn't feel that way. Maybe it's because quake gave me things like the rocket launcher, grenade launcher, and super nailgun much sooner than quake 2 gave me the chaingun. I also feel like the chaingun in quake 2 runs dry VERY fast, whereas in Q1 I always had a copious amount of nails, grenades and rockets. For whatever reason, Q2 definitely feels slower paced to me. It picked up a little bit when I got the super shotgun and chaingun, but enemies felt really stupid and bullet spongy and I didn't feel they felt that way in Q1. (Though some enemies were really cheap)
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Aug 22, 2011 18:28
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Well, the main bullet sponges in Quake are the knights, fiends, and shamblers. The first two try to melee you and shooting them with rockets may or may not get you hit with a massive amount of splash, the third innately takes half damage from explosives. And yes Q2's chaingun is an atrocious ammo hog that is only useful for killing bosses.
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Aug 22, 2011 18:32
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OneEightHundred posted:The one thing that definitely lasted was the visual impact of reminding everybody that global illumination and photosourced textures really do make your game look good. It kind of defeated Doom 3's "hey guys, SHADOWS!" approach for the next 5 years in that regard. Don't forget new lip-synching technology. Half-Life 2 loving blew everything else out of the water.
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Aug 22, 2011 18:37
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Yodzilla posted:Don't forget new lip-synching technology. Half-Life 2 loving blew everything else out of the water.
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Aug 22, 2011 19:02
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microwave casserole posted:I don't think we're in a permanent downhill slope at all, we're just in an uncomfortable transition period between polygons and voxels. I haven't done extensive research on this, but it was an interesting thing I saw a few weeks ago and it doesn't appear to have been proven BS yet, although people are obviously skeptical of its practical applications: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4 Their refusal to provide a detailed explanation of what makes this better than any other voxel renderer is either because they're lying or because they're protecting their trade secrets until they get official funding, depending on who you want to believe.
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Aug 22, 2011 19:35
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OneEightHundred posted:I think things would have gone that direction without it. Much of HL2's face poser functionality was built on a third-party library, a library which had UE2 integration already so clearly its developers thought there'd be a market for it. Doom 3 had a bunch of facial animation stuff as well, and it all works pretty much the same way. Yeah, but this is the history we have so HL2 did the innovation. Someone could have came earlier but they didn't.
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Aug 22, 2011 19:43
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The unlimited detail stuff was beaten pretty deep into the ground over those last few weeks. Notch even wrote up an essay on why it's a scam. General consensus of arguments between whether it's a scam or not seemed to agree at this: the technology--right now--isn't nearly as viable as they portray it to be in the video. It'd also be a nightmare for rendering animations.
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Aug 22, 2011 19:43
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The Kins posted:I think Quakeworld Team Fortress was first with an offhand grenade key instead of grenades as dedicated weapons. Though it just kind of flew out of your face instead of having a nice animation like Halo. Essobie posted:I would argue that the multiplayer in Quake 1 felt tacked on, and didn't actually take off until QuakeWorld made it possible for people to not jump into lava on accident if they happened to be playing outside of a LAN environment (or a college T1). The weapon progression was obviously based on the single player experience, with a number of guns being mostly useless in DM (see Nailgun and Super Nailgun). I remember that a lot of the feedback that went back to iD based on that test build basically boiled down to one thing: keep the console — everything else is negotiable! :P
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Aug 22, 2011 20:21
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I have created the Derail that will not die.  Does anyone else get a virus pop up when they try and run the One Unit Whole blood mod launcher. My AVG freaks out every time I open it.  
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Aug 22, 2011 20:27
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Klaus88 posted:I have created the Derail that will not die. Stop using AVG, it's turned into a bloated shitpile that's awful at detecting viruses and throws out false positives like crazy. Use Microsoft Security Essentials or NOD 32 instead.
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Aug 22, 2011 20:30
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When it comes to innovation - I'm currently wondering how far procedural rendering can take us. Everybody knows Minecraft in this field but my mind was blown some time ago by Space Engine - a procedural engine of the entire galaxy. It's actually in alpha now and everybody can try it right now on their machines. We even have a thread about it. It basically simulates all the stars in the universe (millions), each witch their own planets, animated movements, paths, time etc. and you can land on any planet/moon and even the terrain is procedurally generated in quite a detail. The scale is mindblowing and I'm wondering when technology like this could be used in FPSes. It's being written by one Russian guy who right now works on implementing procedural civilizations into his engine. Check out the thread because this should be experienced with your own PCs but here are also a few nice teaser videos: A day/night cycle on one of the planets showing off the graphics engine A little feel for the scale of this thing A longer narrated presentation but covering all the awesome stuff in one video
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Aug 22, 2011 20:30
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Tippis posted:I can't recall it having a dedicated grenade key at that time, but I do remember that pretty much all quake-engine derived games with grenades sooner or later had players bind a grenade macro that did the exact same thing: switch to grenade, throw it, switch back to previous weapon as fast as the game could process the input. TF definitely had a dedicated grenade key, and it had several, as each class had both a normal and a class-specific grenade.
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Aug 22, 2011 20:30
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Can someone point me in the right direction as to how to set up my Mac to play Brutal doom so it looks and sounds like the videos Dominic White posted?
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Aug 22, 2011 21:27
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Palpek posted:It basically simulates all the stars in the universe (millions) The universe is a lot bigger than you think.
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Aug 22, 2011 21:32
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Palpek posted:When it comes to innovation - I'm currently wondering how far procedural rendering can take us. Everybody knows Minecraft in this field but my mind was blown some time ago by Space Engine - a procedural engine of the entire galaxy. Oh christ it's Noctis V!
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Aug 22, 2011 22:00
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I saw a demo video of a procedurally generated, destructible city environment that they were running around first person shooter style inside. The level of detail wasn't immense but it was definitely something kinda neat, especially when they showed you could shooting apart walls and such. Wish I could find that goddamn video.
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Aug 22, 2011 22:03
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Tippis posted:I can't recall it having a dedicated grenade key at that time, but I do remember that pretty much all quake-engine derived games with grenades sooner or later had players bind a grenade macro that did the exact same thing: switch to grenade, throw it, switch back to previous weapon as fast as the game could process the input. As Golbez said, TF had multiple grenade keys. I believe the default was that there was one bind for each grenade priming, and then a third to "throw primed grenade". Because of Quake 1's fairly robust scripting, a lot of people did make the +prime1 type scripts that would prime on hold and throw on release... but those scripts didn't give you a lot of finger mobility to do precision grenade work... especially the Soldier class which typically used Frag Grenades as a fifth rocket. It is funny and sad to me at the same time that I remember any of this. I remember the multiplayer test for Quake 1 as well... and you may be correct. Quake 1 came out at a really crazy time for folks just getting into LANning. I remember my friends used to try for hours and hours to get an IPX network up and running over a terminated cable network using DOS 6.22, and when we all finally upgraded to Windows 95 and TCP/IP everything became stupidly easy to hook up. LAN parties were actual parties and no longer giant trouble shooting experimentation settings. The point is, I would not be surprised if the main goals behind Quake 1 were 1) Super fast software rendering of 3D environments as well as 3D models and 2) shooting your coworkers. Quake 2 was single player before everything though.
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Aug 22, 2011 22:16
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Essobie posted:The point is, I would not be surprised if the main goals behind Quake 1 were 1) Super fast software rendering of 3D environments as well as 3D models and 2) shooting your coworkers. My point about the MP Test, though, was that they most certainly had understood even then multiplayer was something people really spent a lot of time on, and making it solid and easy to use was a real selling point at a time when most software had you doing the entire voodoo chicken dance to have a hope in hell to get things to work. So it was not an afterthought that the capability and the game modes were included. As for the LAN parties, yeah, I remember those as well. It was at a time when the whole idea of linking your computers together at home was just wierd (because, 1, what kind of oddball would have multiple computers at home, and 2, why on earth would you connect them?! what's wrong with floppies?!). When we went into the local computer shop and bought a 5-pack of network cards and a ton of coax cable to get our Duke:athons more organized, they tried to sell us a 3-year on-site tech support contract as well, because… obviously we were a small business if we wanted that kind of equipment. 
Tippis fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Aug 22, 2011 |
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Aug 22, 2011 22:24
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Vintersorg posted:Yeah, but this is the history we have so HL2 did the innovation. Someone could have came earlier but they didn't. treat posted:The unlimited detail stuff was beaten pretty deep into the ground over those last few weeks. Notch even wrote up an essay on why it's a scam. Also "real time" means real time in a game that's also trying to process animations, physics, and sound, not real time in a contrived viewer app that can devote 100% of its processing power. Tippis posted:it took them until Quake 3 to figure out what it was people really spent time on… When Quake 2 came out, a multiplayer-only Quake game would have been insane. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Aug 22, 2011 |
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Aug 22, 2011 22:29
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Essobie posted:I would argue that the multiplayer in Quake 1 felt tacked on, and didn't actually take off until QuakeWorld made it possible for people to not jump into lava on accident if they happened to be playing outside of a LAN environment (or a college T1). The weapon progression was obviously based on the single player experience, with a number of guns being mostly useless in DM (see Nailgun and Super Nailgun). I recall an interview with Carmack where he stated that he created QuakeWorld only after he realized how popular multiplayer was, and was ashamed at how poorly the stock netcode performed. So I don't think it's fair to say that it was designed with multiplayer in mind.
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Aug 22, 2011 22:49
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I'm looking for G/ZDoom WADs with the visual quality of "The Ultimate Torment and Torture" that can be (reasonably) paired with Brutal Doom. I know there's good stuff like Demon Eclipse and Zen Dynamics, but they don't work with Brutal Doom. And a lot of Doom repositories don't have screenshots, so it's a real crapshoot trying to find the cream of the crop. Any suggestions?
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Aug 22, 2011 23:45
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Halls of the Damned, jesus gently caress this level on Ultra-Violence, so many goddamn Pinky demons. Than they chase you if you accidentally open a closet!! 
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Aug 23, 2011 06:00
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TOOT BOOT posted:The universe is a lot bigger than you think. I worded it badly - I was refering to what you can find in the actual game and not the real universe as I can't really be sure if there are as many stars there - but there sure are millions in game.
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Aug 23, 2011 07:50
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Vintersorg posted:Halls of the Damned, jesus gently caress this level on Ultra-Violence, so many goddamn Pinky demons. How'd you get hard edges on the wall blood splats?
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Aug 23, 2011 08:00
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Vintersorg posted:I remember at the time I didn't understand how modems or connecting to others worked, so one day I was like, I'LL HOST A GAME. Gave someone the phone number, not knowing anything about ip addresses. He phoned my house with his modem, my parents got a call at 2am from some screechy system. Modem-to-modem play doesn't even use IP addresses, I'm pretty sure it predates the entire TCP/IP protocol. you were pretty much doing the right thing. You just set your modem to "Wait for call", plug it into your house's phone line and your friend connects to your number. It was wonderfully simple.
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Aug 23, 2011 08:07
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Palpek posted:I worded it badly - I was refering to what you can find in the actual game and not the real universe as I can't really be sure if there are as many stars there - but there sure are millions in game. It's the Milky Way, not the universe, and in actuality it's hundreds of billions, not millions.  I haven't played the game/sim/mind bong, but with a margin of error of around 100-200 billion stars, I have a hard time even imagining how much depth it holds.
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Aug 23, 2011 08:11
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Vintersorg posted:Halls of the Damned, jesus gently caress this level on Ultra-Violence, so many goddamn Pinky demons.
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Aug 23, 2011 13:10
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Flannelette posted:How'd you get hard edges on the wall blood splats? I'm not too sure, at work now but i'll post a shot of my settings later. The level is claustrophobic as gently caress tho which might lead to the scaryness. Low ceilings, tiny halls, the one pitch black area where you need night vision and once that poo poo begins flashing you high tail it the gently caress out.
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Aug 23, 2011 13:43
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A goon pointed me this video, its work safe and just shows how a dad played waaaay too much Doom, i think even more than us. But after that video, im thinking if some day a dad would wake his son with something related to call of duty 
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Aug 23, 2011 17:50
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I'm getting back into Doom by trying to beat Doom 1 and Doom 2 on Ultra-Violence with "hardcore mode"-esque runs. If I die, I start all over. Holy gently caress Doom 2 is way, way harder than the original Doom Also, what's with nightmare mode? Do monsters just respawn infinitely?
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Aug 23, 2011 17:56
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