|
Yeah, you're both right I think, I had forgotten that aspect of it.
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2011 20:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 22:32 |
|
|
Just seeing Veed's stupid name reminded me of him hocking loogies into his hands to slick back his hair, yuck.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 02:03
|
|
|
Loving Life Partner posted:Just seeing Veed's stupid name reminded me of him hocking loogies into his hands to slick back his hair, yuck. Made me wonder if this was common practice at some point in history that Erikson decided to focus on it so much.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2011 18:35
|
|
|
I finished the series and I can safely say this. I understood about 50% of was going from about book 5 onward. The magic still baffles me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 03:43
|
|
|
So, I'd read through book 4 a few years ago and finally borrowed the rest of the books to read over the last two weeks. Holy poo poo. The combination of hilarity and badassery through the entire series is never going to be lived up to in my opinion. Just as an example, Reaper's Gale from anyone else would be a bunch of fights and blood, and I ended up laughing out loud in the middle of the night because these people were family to each other and it showed. I'm off to read the other ones now and looking forward to the other "prequels" he's got in the works.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 06:35
|
|
|
Alberta Cross posted:The magic still baffles me. which kind? there's more than one 
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2011 12:58
|
|
|
Habibi posted:Made me wonder if this was common practice at some point in history that Erikson decided to focus on it so much. Not that far off from loogie-based hair gel.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2011 23:56
|
|
|
I'm only on book 1 but I can officially say I have put down a dance with dragons for this. Just got past the rooftop fight between all the assassins, Kalam and Quick Ben. I just have one question...is Kruppe the Eel?. I really hope so because he's pretty cool and that would take him over the top for me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 13:46
|
|
|
Victorkm posted:I just have one question...is Kruppe the Eel?. I don't think it really spoils all that much to answer this, but yes he is indeed the Eel and Kruppe is a pretty cool dude throughout the series edit: Just finished the series this morning. Couple of things Cotillion killing the Crippled God at the end was to basically release him from being bound on their world so he and the souls of his worshipers could return to their world, more or less, right? That seemed to be the implication but it was a little murky. Also, Draconus? He killed Kilamandros and that was his last bit of facetime I believe, right? I assume we'll hear more from him in the future and he's off hunting down Errastas, but just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something with him. Levitate fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Aug 23, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 13:54
|
|
|
Levitate posted:I don't think it really spoils all that much to answer this, but yes he is indeed the Eel and Kruppe is a pretty cool dude throughout the series
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 17:27
|
|
|
Another connection I just made in book 1. As there is an imperial warren, and every Warren seems to have Ascendants such as Cotillion and Oponn etc... Are Lorn and possibly the empress inhabited by Ascendants of the imperial Warren? I notice that the woman Lorn and the Imperial Adjunct seem to be referred to almost as different people at times and I bet her sword would probably help keep people from noticing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 18:15
|
|
|
No. The Adjunct is a title, or "occupation", and so it's used as such from time to time. Lorn is her name and so she's just occasionally called Lorn. It's like Whiskey Jack being called a Sergeant from time to time but also being called Whiskey Jack at other times. You find out more about the Imperial Warren a few books later
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 18:18
|
|
|
Levitate posted:You find out more about the Imperial Warren a few books later Such a hosed up side story.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 18:30
|
|
|
double post
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 21:55
|
|
|
Victorkm posted:Another connection I just made in book 1. As there is an imperial warren, and every Warren seems to have Ascendants such as Cotillion and Oponn etc... Are Lorn and possibly the empress inhabited by Ascendants of the imperial Warren? I notice that the woman Lorn and the Imperial Adjunct seem to be referred to almost as different people at times and I bet her sword would probably help keep people from noticing. You might be confused because of her backstory. The Adjunct is supposed to be an extension of the Empress and the person holding the position is expected to serve that role to the point of discarding everything about themselves. One of the most important events in Lorn's childhood was the burning of the Mouse Quarter that she brought up in the world's most awkward dinner conversation with Tattersail. She's forced to suppresses her anger over the incident because the person Lorn who became the Adjunct no longer exists. There's a few other times later where she makes decisions that the non-Adjunct portion of her probably wouldn't make but her sense of duty to her role overrides it. The idea that the Adjunct is essentially a cold emotionless machine is important in later books.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 21:56
|
|
|
Levitate posted:
One thing I just put together over the weekend about Draconus (TCG spoilers) was what the christ his new sword was, where he got it, and how he was so loving powerful with it that he killed Kilamandaros an elder goddess like it weren't no thing. Aeons ago chaos was besieging Kurald Galain, the realm of Mother Dark. Draconus was her consort and if chaos breached Kurald Galain Mother Dark would die or lose all her power or something horrible. With the dual purpose of saving Mother Dark and punishing her for taking father light over himself Draconus forged dragnipur to contain the gate of Kurald Galain and draw chaos eternally after it, happily keeping all the other warrens safe from chaos as well. The gate itself is the bone shatteringly cold void at the heart of dragnipur that Ganoes could hardly approach for fear of its power. Eventually Anomander sacrifices himself freeing the gate, earning the forgiveness of mother dark, ending dragnipur and freeing those that survived chaos. When Draconus returns he freezes the area as completely as Omtose Phellack and has a sword that bleeds darkness. While Mother Dark allows the tiste andii to return to Kurald Galain by placing the gate in black coral she either willingly or not yields the power of it to Draconus which he fashions into a sword to replace the one he lost ages ago to Anomander. No wonder everyone is so loving afraid of him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 23:49
|
|
|
That's pretty cool, hadn't thought of that. I just wish we'd get to see him gently caress up Errastas because drat that guy was annoying
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 23:53
|
|
|
LtSmash posted:One thing I just put together over the weekend about Draconus (TCG spoilers) was what the christ his new sword was, where he got it, and how he was so loving powerful with it that he killed Kilamandaros an elder goddess like it weren't no thing. When he sacrifices himself to close the gate, she forgives him for the betrayal, and when Dragnipur is shattered, she is freed. Or maybe she really did just disappear for a jillion years and reappeared at a convenient moment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:33
|
|
|
Infinite Karma posted:It seems like Draconus turned Mother Dark (or imprisoned her to power it) INTO Dragnipur. So when all the Andii think she turned away, she really was just locked up without warning them. And Anomander was complicit in betraying her for his big grand plan. I'm pretty sure Silchas Ruin says that Draconus didn't make dragnipur/fight anomander until after mother dark had left them. And wasn't mother dark acting through Aranatha for a while before Nimander realized it in TtH? Also the Anomander part doesn't make much sense to me. He's spent millennia trying to keep his people from succumbing to ennui, fighting wars for causes that were not their own to keep his followers from crumbling under the weight of the pointlessness of existence. It seems a bit of a stretch that he would wait hundreds of thousands of years setting up the plan to free mother dark. I guess he could have done everything to atone for it and taken so long to accept what he had to do but I got the feeling that he had always been mostly that way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:52
|
|
|
LtSmash posted:I'm pretty sure Silchas Ruin says that Draconus didn't make dragnipur/fight anomander until after mother dark had left them. And wasn't mother dark acting through Aranatha for a while before Nimander realized it in TtH? The reason Rake's plan made sense was that He needed a powerful weapon to kill all the bad guys he killed over the millennia. Without Dragnipur he wouldn't have been able to take down all those dragons and gods. But when Dragnipur eventually was broken to save Kurald Galain, all of the bad guys would have been let loose. Likewise, all of the dead bad guys in Hood's realm would have gone free when Hood died. So the masterstroke was letting Chaos devour all of those nasty things juuuust before the gate got sealed and Dragnipur got shattered.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 06:20
|
|
|
I dunno, that assumes Rake had this overwhelming motivation to go kill a bunch of Gods and Ascendants for no good reason and so planned out this entire thing. Honestly it doesn't seem to fit with what we know about his character
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 17:05
|
|
|
The reason Rake took Dragnipur is quite simple. He hated Draconus, so for Rake the ultimate irony was to kill Draconus with his own creation. The actual purpose of Dragnipur was oblivious to him when he took it. He just thought Dragnipur was a funky sword. The sword was created to save Kurald Galain from getting eaten by Chaos. Draconus was just one big nastie and he tended to kill everyone who crossed him, so the ultimate fate of those killed by the sword fitted his persona and his goal. He didn't expect Rake to take it. Rake on the other hand had troubles with it(Draconus comments this right on the first book! That he is too merciful), and chaos was finally catching up with the wagon. This then leads Rake to strike a deal with Hood, wait for Dassem to show up, get himself killed with his own sword, end up inside Dragnipur and sacrificing himself to open the way. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 17:20
|
|
|
Levitate posted:I dunno, that assumes Rake had this overwhelming motivation to go kill a bunch of Gods and Ascendants for no good reason and so planned out this entire thing. Yeah. The only time rake ever seems to actually want power was when he drank tiam's blood and I got the impression that was related to mother dark turning away. My interpretation of drinking the blood was that it was so devastating to rake, both in its actual effects on him and in repercussions on the tiste andii, that it was enough to put him off trying to further increase his power for the vast span of the rest of his life. Rake's actions in TtH were an excellent way of dealing with all those he killed over the centuries, but it seems like circular reasoning that he helped make the sword so he could kill gods/ascendants/dragons so he could break the sword. He also had the other sword that Andarist eventually got and described as unbeatable if wielded by rake.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 17:34
|
|
|
Electronico6 posted:The reason Rake took Dragnipur is quite simple. He hated Draconus, so for Rake the ultimate irony was to kill Draconus with his own creation. The actual purpose of Dragnipur was oblivious to him when he took it. He just thought Dragnipur was a funky sword. Yeah, this is closer to my interpretation of the whole thing. Not really buying the whole 'he needed a powerful weapon to kill all the bad guys he killed over the millennia and then get them taken down inside Dragnipur just before breaking the sword' deal, especially since he already HAD a really powerful weapon. The way I interpreted the exchange is that despite the fact that Grief/Vengeance could turn its wielder into an unstoppable force if he had sufficient INT (or whatever), Dragnipur is hardly something he could have just left lying around or given to someone, since just carrying the thing is an enormous burden, let alone giving its power to someone else. And then, yeah, as he started running out of evil things to kill and / or became more merciful with time, the wagon began slowing down and he struck a deal with Hood to figure out a 'final solution,' as it were.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 18:33
|
|
|
Draconus and Dragnipur: There are also several hints that Draconus, because of Kallor's curse, let himself get taken out by Dragnipur since he thought it would be broken eventually. Hints that I take as he planned for it to happen
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 16:35
|
|
|
zokie posted:Draconus and Dragnipur: There are also several hints that Draconus, because of Kallor's curse, let himself get taken out by Dragnipur since he thought it would be broken eventually. Hints that I take as he planned for it to happen I thought the curse on Draconus was being taken by his own sword.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 17:25
|
|
|
Lyer posted:I thought the curse on Draconus was being taken by his own sword. Yea, or something to that effect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 17:37
|
|
|
Lyer posted:I thought the curse on Draconus was being taken by his own sword. But the swords wasn't made yet! So Draconus, knowing that one of his inventions would be used against him made one that would protect him from what would happen to all other Elder Gods. Within Dragnipur he would still be forgotten, but apparently not lose as much of his power like the others. When he got out he was full of kick-rear end and power. Compare him to the other Elders, only Mael is probably doing as well as him. Or maybe K'Rull, but he got power again by accident...
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 19:34
|
|
|
zokie posted:But the swords wasn't made yet! So Draconus, knowing that one of his inventions would be used against him made one that would protect him from what would happen to all other Elder Gods. Within Dragnipur he would still be forgotten, but apparently not lose as much of his power like the others. When he got out he was full of kick-rear end and power. Compare him to the other Elders, only Mael is probably doing as well as him. Or maybe K'Rull, but he got power again by accident... Actually, I'm pretty sure it was strongly implied that the sword was already being forged when Kallor cursed the gods. In any case, I don't think Draconus' power functions quite like some of the other ascendants. You have gods whose power is dependent entirely on worship (a lot of the old 'Holds' crew - Mael, Errastas, etc..) and then some whose power seems independent / internal (Draconus, Rake & Family) and others whose power seems to only have traces of explanation (Shadowthrone).
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 21:07
|
|
|
zokie posted:But the swords wasn't made yet! So Draconus, knowing that one of his inventions would be used against him made one that would protect him from what would happen to all other Elder Gods. Within Dragnipur he would still be forgotten, but apparently not lose as much of his power like the others. When he got out he was full of kick-rear end and power. Compare him to the other Elders, only Mael is probably doing as well as him. Or maybe K'Rull, but he got power again by accident... quote:Then Draconus spoke, 'Since the time of All Darkness, I have been forging a sword.'
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 21:27
|
|
|
MoI Prologue posted:Then Draconus spoke, 'Since the time of All Darkness, I have been forging a sword.' So then they all predicted that he would get caught in Dragnipur, and Draconus knowing that his own invention would be used against him made plans. But then again, he didn't know that it would be shattered by Brood, since he was planning to create a god within it. If the god would release him or give more power to the cart? I'm not sure.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 21:34
|
|
|
zokie posted:So then they all predicted that he would get caught in Dragnipur, and Draconus knowing that his own invention would be used against him made plans. But then again, he didn't know that it would be shattered by Brood, since he was planning to create a god within it. If the god would release him or give more power to the cart? I'm not sure. He changed it from a sword that would annihilate to one that would imprison. Seems pretty clear to me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 01:17
|
|
|
Junk Science posted:He changed it from a sword that would annihilate to one that would imprison. Seems pretty clear to me. That was my take too. If I was gonna be trapped inside my creation for a hundred thousand years I would totally have made it imprison those slain in a hedonistic paradise, but I guess elder gods have different priorities from me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 01:38
|
|
|
Alberta Cross posted:I finished the series and I can safely say this. I understood about 50% of was going from about book 5 onward. I came extremely close to putting down even the very first book of the series because I was so confused by the cacophony of random words / baffling perspective embodied by self-narrating characters like Kruppe, but I soldiered through and the badassery is pretty great. Thank you Book Barn for the recommendation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 02:13
|
|
|
Stew Man Chew posted:I came extremely close to putting down even the very first book of the series because I was so confused by the cacophony of random words / baffling perspective embodied by self-narrating characters like Kruppe, but I soldiered through and the badassery is pretty great. I put down the first one a few times too, but ended up liking it. I did not go for the second one until a good 8 months later. I could not put the second one down, and the 3rd one is the same right now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 15:20
|
|
|
Stew Man Chew posted:I came extremely close to putting down even the very first book of the series because I was so confused by the cacophony of random words / baffling perspective embodied by self-narrating characters like Kruppe, but I soldiered through and the badassery is pretty great. I didn't have any trouble with the shifting perspectives and I enjoyed the flashes of "how things work" rather than something like a Sanderson tutorial... Also, Kruppe's first scene was truly off putting. It would have been easier had they started the Darujistan narratives with someone else and introduced Kruppe through their eyes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 18:19
|
|
|
Junk Science posted:He changed it from a sword that would annihilate to one that would imprison. Seems pretty clear to me. Likewise how I interpreted it. I wonder, though, if his plan all along had been to imprison the Gate of Dark within Dragnipur somehow, or if that was an improvisation he made after the curse and necessity for making some alterations to the sword's 'finality.' That must have been a fun conversation. "Heeeey Anomander, yeah, I'm gonna need to go ahead and uhm, borrrow your mom, yeaah...*sip coffee*"
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 18:53
|
|
|
I've just finished Midnight Tides, and loved it. While I agree it takes awhile to get going, it really picks up in the last quarter of the book or so. I'm pretty good at keeping track of all the warrens and gods and such, but geography is something I have trouble keeping straight in pretty much any fantasy series I read, even with all the maps and stuff. While reading Midnight Tides I kept trying to figure out where it was all happening in terms of the rest of the series, but I couldn't really pin anything down. Did I miss some sort of subtle clue? Does the book take place on Quon Tali/Genebackis or is it somewhere we haven't been yet in the other books? If it's something spoilery, like it all took place in a warren or something that's cool. I just have this nagging feeling that I missed something important. When Bugg's true identity was revealed I nearly poo poo myself. I loved his banter with Tehol, and it's probably wishful thinking considering how far in the past this all took place, but will I ever see Tehol again? Pokeylope fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Sep 2, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2011 02:25
|
|
|
Pokeylope posted:I've just finished Midnight Tides, and loved it. While I agree it takes awhile to get going, it really picks up in the last quarter of the book or so.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2011 02:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 22:32 |
|
|
Illuyankas posted:The fate of the guy who Bugg sent into the depths of the sea, remember the Edur corpse in Memories of Ice? was meant to be an indicator of where it was bookwise. You mean the one they find by the river outside of Capustan? I'd totally forgotten about that, but it makes sense now that you mention it. That's one of the reasons I love these books. There's a lot of stuff that's baffling when you first read it, but in retrospect begins to reveal it's significance. It's apparent Erikson thought ahead, and that make the reading very rewarding when you begin to make connections on your own instead of having everything spelled out for you. I'm really glad that I haven't heard the last of Tehol and Bugg. I'll be starting Bonehunters tonight. I'm excited to get back to the main cast of characters
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2011 02:53
|
|