|
Martin Van Buren posted:I think he meant strictly the pacing of first three books vs. last two books. But even still, Tolkien has massive pacing issues with much of the first book, a good chunk of the second, and an even larger part of the third book in the main LOTR series being incredibly, impossibly boring. I have no issues with GRRM's pacing, because the payoff in TWOW will be worth it. A lot of people may have been disappointed or whatever, but a lot of people have enjoyed these last two books.
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 17:19 |
|
|
menino posted:Pure lesbianism doen't really affect the power structure of the world. it can be safely assumed that a large number of the women in this world don't want to sleep with the men they are married to, yet the norms dictate that they do. given the disparity in power and usually age, a woman who doesn't want to couple with a man usually doesnt' have much of a choice, especially if she is married to that man but especially if she doesn't have a bunch of sworn swords around her, no matter who she is married to. "Boys will be boys" leads to a lot of awful male rapine. This is true, and a good point, but I think what people are more bothered about is GRRM's lovingly detailed descriptions of Dany and Cersei's awesome girlfriend sleepovers when J-Con and Renly/Loras's gayness was hinted at with such delicacy that westeros.org still doesn't get it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:02
|
|
|
Atma McCuddles posted:This is true, and a good point, but I think what people are more bothered about is GRRM's lovingly detailed descriptions of Dany and Cersei's awesome girlfriend sleepovers when J-Con and Renly/Loras's gayness was hinted at with such delicacy that westeros.org still doesn't get it. It's somewhat 'secretive' because that's exactly how the individual characters would be going about it. There would never be anything overt regarding gay characters, because it would not be accepted in Westeros at all (remember Victarion killing all the gay prostitutes without a second thought?). Whereas Dany keeping a bed warmer is completely acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:08
|
|
|
Atma McCuddles posted:This is true, and a good point, but I think what people are more bothered about is GRRM's lovingly detailed descriptions of Dany and Cersei's awesome girlfriend sleepovers when J-Con and Renly/Loras's gayness was hinted at with such delicacy that westeros.org still doesn't get it. It comes across as really, really creepy more than anything. I can't read about tender handmaid fingerbangs and Cersei covering her "slit" while crabwalking without being taken out of the story and thinkin "yeah GURM is an old gross pervy dude."
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:09
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:But even still, Tolkien has massive pacing issues with much of the first book, a good chunk of the second, and an even larger part of the third book in the main LOTR series being incredibly, impossibly boring. I have no issues with GRRM's pacing, because the payoff in TWOW will be worth it. I think these and other issues are why he said his fondness for this, Piers Anthony, etc. was nostalgia only. Can we make Bujold's Vorkosigan books count as epic fantasy? Because her long-running series featuring the misfit genius scion of a powerful family actually gets new adventures published now and then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:10
|
|
|
I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated ADWD. I was really angry with Gurm before ADWD came out, but now I'm actually extremely thankful to have gotten to read a new book in this series. ADWD made me realize how much I unconditionally love the characters and story in ASoIaF
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:12
|
|
|
What do you mean by "pacing issues" in LOTR? I always thought it was remarkably fast paced, especially the first book which is the best of the three by far and away. Once Frodo walks out of Bag end it is nonstop straight narrative action until Lothlorien. I suppose there is a 20 page interlude in Rivendell to hear Gandalf's story.
euphronius fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:15
|
|
|
euphronius posted:What do you mean by "pacing issues" in LOTR? I always thought it was remarkably fast paced, especially the first book which is the best of the three by far and away. A significant number of non-genre readers I know have run aground during the first half of Fellowship, before they get to Rivendell, and never finish the series. If you're not accustomed to the way these things work (or aren't in it for the world-building), the whole section where the hobbits are wandering around waiting for someone to tell them what to do can be a bit tiresome.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:18
|
|
|
uberkeyzer posted:A significant number of non-genre readers I know have run aground during the first half of Fellowship, before they get to Rivendell, and never finish the series. If you're not accustomed to the way these things work (or aren't in it for the world-building), the whole section where the hobbits are wandering around waiting for someone to tell them what to do can be a bit tiresome. And as much of a pimp as Tom Bombadil is, his part of the book is a little out of the place and totally fucks with the pacing before the main conflict really gets into swing. Leaving him out of the movie was honestly a necessary sacrifice IMO.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:22
|
|
|
Vivek posted:I'm so glad that someone else calls him J-Con. I do not think so. Every other Victarion page is about him savagely humping the Dusky Woman or whatever her name is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:32
|
|
|
bigmcgaffney posted:Victarion tosses some gays overboard, burns women alive, bros out with a red priest and gets a zombie arm I secretly hope that he never reaches Meereen and TWOW is just 900 pages of him sailing around and continuing to be an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:39
|
|
|
euphronius posted:What do you mean by "pacing issues" in LOTR? I always thought it was remarkably fast paced, especially the first book which is the best of the three by far and away. Once Frodo walks out of Bag end it is nonstop straight narrative action until Lothlorien. I suppose there is a 20 page interlude in Rivendell to hear Gandalf's story. Atma McCuddles posted:This is true, and a good point, but I think what people are more bothered about is GRRM's lovingly detailed descriptions of Dany and Cersei's awesome girlfriend sleepovers when J-Con and Renly/Loras's gayness was hinted at with such delicacy that westeros.org still doesn't get it. I like all sex scenes in novels because I enjoy sexual fantasies. I wish the books had more gay sex but oh well guess I'll have to read other books for that. Not A Big Deal For This Reader. To me adding in a cool fight scene or a scene where Tyrion has numerous "japes" is no different than adding a sex scene. It's all fantasy. We all have fantasies where we're powerful, or smart, or sexy. It's why we read books like this. Gratuitous Whimsy posted:I secretly hope that he never reaches Meereen and TWOW is just 900 pages of him sailing around and continuing to be an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:44
|
|
|
Does book numero 6 have anything remotely resembling a release date? Am I going to have to wait until 2015? The blu-ray of Season 1 and then Season 2 can presumably tide me over for a couple years but I don't know if I can wait much longer than that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:45
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:But even still, Tolkien has massive pacing issues with much of the first book, a good chunk of the second, and an even larger part of the third book in the main LOTR series being incredibly, impossibly boring. I have no issues with GRRM's pacing, because the payoff in TWOW will be worth it. But you see, I wasn't comparing those books to ASOIAF. I simply answered what other "fantasy" I enjoyed. I put the part about growing out of them in there intentionally as well...and nostalgia. (did you miss that part?) ASOIAF is the first real book that comes close to "fantasy" that I've read (besides Pratchet) since high school. Which was 25 or so years ago.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:46
|
|
|
euphronius posted:What do you mean by "pacing issues" in LOTR? I always thought it was remarkably fast paced, especially the first book which is the best of the three by far and away. Once Frodo walks out of Bag end it is nonstop straight narrative action until Lothlorien. I suppose there is a 20 page interlude in Rivendell to hear Gandalf's story. Once he walks out, yes. But upon getting the ring, Frodo sits around and gets drunk drunk for 15 years before Gandalf returns to confirm it's identity. Even when he tells him to GTFO and on the road, he takes another few months to catiloge everything in his house, before finally going over to farmer Maggot's place for tea and cake.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 03:49
|
|
|
hellbastard posted:Once he walks out, yes. But upon getting the ring, Frodo sits around and gets drunk drunk for 15 years before Gandalf returns to confirm it's identity. Even when he tells him to GTFO and on the road, he takes another few months to catiloge everything in his house, before finally going over to farmer Maggot's place for tea and cake. Blame Gandalf for getting imprisoned by his bro.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:03
|
|
|
YES bread posted:It comes across as really, really creepy more than anything. I can't read about tender handmaid fingerbangs and Cersei covering her "slit" while crabwalking without being taken out of the story and thinkin "yeah GURM is an old gross pervy dude." Well you can't expect him to suddenly drop the autistic-level attention to detail just with the sex scenes. But yeah, "slit" gave me pause too. Even beyond the fact that any mention of female genitalia makes me uncomfortable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:03
|
|
|
I just want to say that even though Dance had some problems, like everything about Daario and every Quentin chapter that isn't his final one, Jon executing Janos Slynt was one of the most fantastic scenes I've read in the series. I seriously put it up there with the Red Wedding or even the Hound/Viper fight. Not as grandiose or as sweeping as those two moments, for sure, but a drat good character bit. I mean, I had this feeling that I knew what was going to happen before we got to the "bring me a block" line, but it was just really well done. I loved how casual Jon was about it. He didn't freak out. He was cool and confident. Why wouldn't he be? He burned a wight and killed Quorin Halfhand, defended the wall from Mance Rayder and brokered peace with the Wildlings. Boy's grown up. Slynt had so many chances to follow orders, he hosed up and Snow was just like "Welp. Goodbye then." Great scene.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:11
|
|
|
Desumaytah posted:I just want to say that even though Dance had some problems, like everything about Daario and every Quentin chapter that isn't his final one, Jon executing Janos Slynt was one of the most fantastic scenes I've read in the series. I seriously put it up there with the Red Wedding or even the Hound/Viper fight. Not as grandiose or as sweeping as those two moments, for sure, but a drat good character bit. And Stannis gives him a nod, which is a nice touch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:24
|
|
|
That's the greatest scene, because it shows that Jon has become a true Stark and Ned did make a difference for him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:24
|
|
|
Ross posted:Does book numero 6 have anything remotely resembling a release date? Am I going to have to wait until 2015? The blu-ray of Season 1 and then Season 2 can presumably tide me over for a couple years but I don't know if I can wait much longer than that. He has said he won't even start working on it until next year. Though at least some of it is already written and got culled from A Dance with Dragons. Hopefully now that he's done with the mystical "knot" he'll be able to crank out the last few books. But he probably won't.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:27
|
|
|
Yeahhhh and he had half a book going into Dance with Dragons. It all depends on how the writing goes once he starts. And how many cons he goes to.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:46
|
|
|
I think he's basically said he's not even going to write anything for the rest of this year, so I wouldn't hope for a quick turnaround on the next one.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:48
|
|
|
Ross posted:Does book numero 6 have anything remotely resembling a release date? Am I going to have to wait until 2015? The blu-ray of Season 1 and then Season 2 can presumably tide me over for a couple years but I don't know if I can wait much longer than that. Book 6 will come out in the year 1 Googol, book 7 in the year 1 Googolplex.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 04:49
|
|
|
Quantify! posted:I think he's basically said he's not even going to write anything for the rest of this year, so I wouldn't hope for a quick turnaround on the next one. Well obviously, we are only 2 weeks from football season after all... Check that, he probably religiously watches preseason games as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 05:04
|
|
|
Martin Van Buren posted:Well you can't expect him to suddenly drop the autistic-level attention to detail just with the sex scenes. But yeah, "slit" gave me pause too. Even beyond the fact that any mention of female genitalia makes me uncomfortable. "Whore the whoring oval office!" roared Giant Bigbob Treetop, in a dark grey blended wool doublet featuring the quartered aging red oak and falling leaves of Treetops Landing name and the slimy scaled eel carrying a drowned brown rat of his mother's house of the Slim Rock Blackeels, on a field of aubergine and olive. Grease dripped down his beard and slitted chin as he tore into a roast capon covered in a butter, herbed garlic and basil wash and stuffed with fresh autumn tuber shoots, goats kidney and bacon butchered from a summer sow, followed by streams of a tart yet fruity arbor red spilling from his goblet down his oval office-like, glistening hairy chin slit. And why hasn't anyone picked up on the Dick Crabb's ambivalence? Why weren't there any legitimate heirs to Crackclaw again?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 06:26
|
|
|
I hope in the next book he uses "vagina." I'll leave it up to him as to whether it's in a culinary setting or a something of a sexual nature. Or both.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 07:03
|
|
|
Retarded coworker of mine has the greater theory of all time. Bran tree talks to Ned back in the past, before Jon and Robb were born and tells him everything that happens. Ned then switches Robb and Jon, so that when Robb dies Jon can legitimatly be the Stark ruler in Winterfell.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 07:57
|
|
|
KillRoy posted:Retarded coworker of mine has the greater theory of all time. Bran tree talks to Ned back in the past, before Jon and Robb were born and tells him everything that happens. Ned then switches Robb and Jon, so that when Robb dies Jon can legitimatly be the Stark ruler in Winterfell. Whilst it's been mentioned that properly talking back to the past is impossible, Jon is legitimate. Robb legitimised him. Right now it's his Night's Watch vow that's keeping him from that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 13:08
|
|
|
Hedrigall posted:Book 6 will come out in the year 1 Googol, book 7 in the year 1 Googolplex. I know you meant the mathematical construct and not the company, but my first thought was "year 1 after Google's conquest of the world's cultures is so thorough as to spark a new calendar era". MikeJF posted:Robb legitimised him. Right now it's his Night's Watch vow that's keeping him from that. While you're right (Jon's vows did keep him from accepting Stannis's offer of Winterfell), no one in the books knows that Jon has been legitimized except for Robb's couriers with the message, assuming they're still alive.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 13:16
|
|
|
So, um, do we have any idea of what's happening with Rickon? I don't particularly care, but it's been like three books and there's been no mention at all. I mean, what is he doing? Running around with Shaggydog trying to find Nymeria?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 13:46
|
|
|
Which book does Jon get legitimized in?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 13:47
|
|
|
oogyboogs posted:Which book does Jon get legitimized in? Storm of Swords, a few chapters before the Red Wedding.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 13:56
|
|
|
So is the general consensus that with Jon's "death", his vow is fulfilled, so he no longer has to serve in the Night's Watch once Melisandre revives him?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 14:03
|
|
|
pksage posted:Storm of Swords, a few chapters before the Red Wedding. We have no idea what Robb wrote in that letter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 14:33
|
|
|
Johnny Nomad posted:So is the general consensus that with Jon's "death", his vow is fulfilled, so he no longer has to serve in the Night's Watch once Melisandre revives him? Who would lead the Watch other than Jon? It's really more his honor keeping him there instead of his vows. No, he'll lead the Watch and do it his own way, and rely on Melisandre to ferret out traitors and probably sleep with her too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 14:49
|
|
|
I really feel like the whole "Jon 'died' so now he doesn't have to be a Brother" theory is kind of ridiculous. Think of it from the perspective of the other brothers. Jon may have died and come back but unless there's a span of at least a few months in between the two events, they're still going to think of him as Jon Snow of the Night's Watch and expect him to be there. It's not like he's playing a computer game where the programming says certain criteria are met, therefore he gets the "Freed From His Vow" achievement. More likely, IF they recognize that he died and came back, they'd kill him again thinking he's a wight. These guys aren't the most progressive and superstition-free group, nor are they going to be swayed by the idea that being dead for a few minutes automatically undoes your vow. You stand your watch until you die and stay dead. Anything less than that and they're not going to believe you died, or they'll kill you again to make sure you're dead.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 14:56
|
|
|
Maybe the Night's Watch is as smart as dogs and you can just walk out of sight for a few minutes and they think you're dead.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 15:21
|
|
|
Quantify! posted:Maybe the Night's Watch is as smart as dogs and you can just walk out of sight for a few minutes and they think you're dead. Worked for the others.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 15:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 17:19 |
|
|
Also any legitimizin' Robb did would be...illegitimate, given as A) He is dead and B) Not recognized by the current King or his court So pretty sure Jon is still a bastard in the eyes of the seven kingdoms. Also yeah this "He is out of his vows" poo poo is nonsense. Now maybe Aliser Thorne or whoever takes charge and it wouldn't be safe for him to come back or whatever, but that's kind of another story altogether.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 15:37
|
|
