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Thunder Augmented 
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Aug 25, 2011 04:16
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PoptartsNinja posted:Alacorn Haha, wow. Okay, now I'm curious. How does it fare against a Hollander II cost-wise? I figure it's over twice as big and much less squishy, but I recall hearing that tanks are generally supposed to be cheaper than 'Mechs. EDITS: Also! No random UAC/2's! The Dire Wolf AUTRO brings a smile to me face. I'd love to see a "Beowulf" scenario as suggested with one of those suckers as the AND AGAIN: Holy hell. That's like the Rolls Royce of tanks, then. Runa fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 05:12
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Okay, now I'm curious. How does it fare against a Hollander II cost-wise? I figure it's over twice as big and much less squishy, but I recall hearing that tanks are generally supposed to be cheaper than 'Mechs. The Alacorn's a special tank. The Hollander costs about 3,000,000 c-bills. The Hollander II costs 3,700,000 c-bills. The Alacorn costs 16,000,000 c-bills. It's what happens when you slap an XL engine in a 95 ton tank. VVV And even though Tanks don't produce heat in the traditional sense, the average Demolisher will still cook its crew alive in a matter of minutes due to improper heat venting. At least in the fluff. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 05:41
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As far as tanks go, I'm partial to the Demolisher. 80 tons of two Autocannon/20s, ammo, and armor for two million C-bills. Simple and effective.
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Aug 25, 2011 05:43
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Cythereal posted:As far as tanks go, I'm partial to the Demolisher. 80 tons of two Autocannon/20s, ammo, and armor for two million C-bills. Simple and effective. It's a shame there is no tracked variant of the Hetzer, because that would the best thing ever (second best behind a tracked variant with a fusion engine and a PPC).
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Aug 25, 2011 06:40
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Is that the stock Hollander or the suicide sled I sent you, PTN? Anyway, there's a few tanks where they clearly said "gently caress being inexpensive. What we need is an MBT- a Monstrous Beatdown Truckasaurus." That's stuff like the Alacorn, Demolisher II, Challenger X, Ajax, and Guertiwhatever. I always call it a Gertie.
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Aug 25, 2011 06:45
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It's a shame there is no tracked variant of the Hetzer, because that would the best thing ever (second best behind a tracked variant with a fusion engine and a PPC). If they made the Hetzer tracked, it would be the exact same thing as the Jagdpanzer 38t from World War II. It's already embarrassingly close and uninspired.
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Aug 25, 2011 07:07
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Those are some expensive looking tanks you got there, it'd be a shame if someone... inferno SRMed them... V V V I know, but a good salvo will crit the hell out of them. Usual Barb fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 07:23
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Not actually an instant kill on fusion tanks anymore. Also if you can get close enough to use SRMs on an Alacorn you deserve to kill it.
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Aug 25, 2011 07:26
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an oddly awful oud posted:If they made the Hetzer tracked, it would be the exact same thing as the Jagdpanzer 38t from World War II. It's already embarrassingly close and uninspired. The Jagdpanzer 38t was Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 08:00
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Zeroisanumber posted:One of the best scenarios that I ever played was entitled "Beowulf" in which the GM ran a single Dire Wolf against a dozen Innner Sphere light and medium mechs. We managed to take it out, but it was a near thing and we lost nine mechs in the process. This. This is the reason why the Dire Wolf is pretty much the top of my favourite 'mech list. They essentially carry a heavy's main armament on either arm, which they can flip. (Behind a Dire Wolf is not a safe place to stand. For that matter, anywhere in range is not a safe place to stand.) I've seen Dire Wolves practically solo lances of IS heavies and assaults. They have maximum armor, and fully half their weight is weaponry. Fielding them in pairs is blatantly unfair, and fun.
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Aug 25, 2011 10:51
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It's a shame there is no tracked variant of the Hetzer, because that would the best thing ever (second best behind a tracked variant with a fusion engine and a PPC). Well, there is the Myrmidon. Same weight as the Hetzer, 5/8 on tracks with a fusion engine, half again the armor and in the turret they packed a PPC and SRM6.
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Aug 25, 2011 11:39
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It's a shame there is no tracked variant of the Hetzer, because that would the best thing ever (second best behind a tracked variant with a fusion engine and a PPC). Screw tracks, what you want is a Saladin, an AC20 mounted on a super mobile hovertank. AC20 backshots at mechs? Yes, please! Tarquinn fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 12:08
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:The Jagdpanzer 38t was Yeah, that's my point. It's such a lazy design. I wouldn't at all if they just cribbed the name, but copying the entire appearance of the vehicle just reeks of laziness and the aesthetics of a WWII tank look really jarringly out-of-place when compared to the futuristic designs already in the game. Unrelated note: Speaking of light 'mechs and tanks, why haven't we seen the Schrek/Demolisher (or Rommel) combo yet?
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Aug 25, 2011 12:30
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Cythereal posted:As far as tanks go, I'm partial to the Demolisher. 80 tons of two Autocannon/20s, ammo, and armor for two million C-bills. Simple and effective. The Demolisher II goes all out and puts a UAC/20 and LB-20X on it. The size is increased to 100 tons and it's given a pair of MGs. All for only 3.5x the price!
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Aug 25, 2011 12:58
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The herder works for the same reason the Urbie does: it's a (relatively) stupid cheap platform on which to mount the biggest gun possible.
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Aug 25, 2011 14:09
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Magni posted:Well, there is the Myrmidon. Same weight as the Hetzer, 5/8 on tracks with a fusion engine, half again the armor and in the turret they packed a PPC and SRM6. And it's one of the best tanks in the game, honestly. At least in terms of efficiency. I love fielding them - they're like a Vindicator. There's really no bad time to use one.
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Aug 25, 2011 14:55
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The only vehicle worth fielding is the Savannah Master. I am sorry that all of you are so wrong.
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Aug 25, 2011 15:00
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Magni posted:Well, there is the Myrmidon. Same weight as the Hetzer, 5/8 on tracks with a fusion engine, half again the armor and in the turret they packed a PPC and SRM6. Yeah it is pretty sweet - the only reason (in universe) I can think of to use vehicles is the discounted C-bills price which makes the Myrmidon looks pretty nice as I have no idea how you could get more PPCs per dollar. I was screwing around with the vehicle editors and on a 'bang for your buck' basis you can make some pretty fun stuff. A slimed down fusion hetzer (PPC, 6 tons of armor, 4/6 tracked) costs ~500k, and a VTOL with a PPC and 6.5 tons of armor (not a fast one though) comes out at like 700k. I suspect the rules aren't that balanced though, but those would be pretty tasty/hilarious.
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Aug 25, 2011 15:22
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PoptartsNinja posted:Two lances of Alacorns. I was thinking T1 Inner Sphere, for T2 I'd revise it down to a lance.
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Aug 25, 2011 15:24
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PoptartsNinja posted:Scarymech Prime Impressive mechs, PTN. Is there a particular strategy for how you place your weapon systems? I tend not to place all of one major weapon type in one place like you did for the Beta variant; putting all your LPLs in one basket as it were. I try to spread the major weapon systems between the arms unless I have particularly dangerous ammo, in which case I isolate the ammo and it's launcher to one limb or side.
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Aug 25, 2011 15:26
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Since it's become more than a one-battle-gimmick (Thankfully; The implementation into the overall story has been fantastic, believable and hilarious!), can I ask who exactly came up with the concept of 'Steiner Rules'? Was that something a desperate Mukaikubo cooked up all by himself, or did he simply challenge Mechwarrior Drang to a normal duel, with PoptartsNinja providing the rest of the fluff?
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Aug 25, 2011 16:03
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Gimmick Account posted:Since it's become more than a one-battle-gimmick (Thankfully; The implementation into the overall story has been fantastic, believable and hilarious!), can I ask who exactly came up with the concept of 'Steiner Rules'? Was that something a desperate Mukaikubo cooked up all by himself, or did he simply challenge Mechwarrior Drang to a normal duel, with PoptartsNinja providing the rest of the fluff? Mukaikubo posted:I demanded the one on one challenge, but PTN came up with making it a boxing match.
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Aug 25, 2011 16:10
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Rivensteel posted:Is there a particular strategy for how you place your weapon systems? The Clans put weapons in the arms whenever possible. Additionally, they tend to use one to three other basic strategies for weapons systems: 1) cluster weapons of the same type in the same limb. See: Warhawk, Nova, Nova Cat, Executioner, Guillotine IIC 2) 'mirrored' arm weapons See: Mad Dog, Timberwolf, Warhawk, Adder, Battle Cobra, Crossbow, standard Dire Wolf, Storm Crow, anything else with 2 or more PPCs, Gargoyle 3) Asymmetric armament, ballistics in one arm, energy weapons in the other See: Summoner, any Storm Crow variant with an autocannon, Viper, Huntsman, Ebon Jaguar, Executioner, Kit Fox When they utilize torso-mounted weapons, the preference seems to be: 1) Active Probes, Targeting Computers, and other equipment get priority over 2) Missile weapons get priority over 3) Energy weapons get priority over 4) Ballistic weapons, which have the lowest priority and are rarely torso-mounted except in special cases I've tried to preserve Clan-style weapon-placement wherever possible, since it's one of the weaknesses of their design philosophy that I actually like and understand (it's harder to mesh the targeting system of a laser and a much slower autocannon). It's become second nature to mount weapons like this and I rarely even have to think about it anymore. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 16:15
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I was screwing around with the vehicle editors and on a 'bang for your buck' basis you can make some pretty fun stuff. A slimed down fusion hetzer (PPC, 6 tons of armor, 4/6 tracked) costs ~500k, and a VTOL with a PPC and 6.5 tons of armor (not a fast one though) comes out at like 700k. I suspect the rules aren't that balanced though, but those would be pretty tasty/hilarious. Wheeled vehicle, 35 tons, ICE with a 4/6 profile. 3 tons of armor. One machinegun with half a ton of ammo and a Thumper artillery piece with two tons ammo. 425k C-Bills, the cheapest I managed to get for a functional motorised artillery system.
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Aug 25, 2011 16:22
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Magni posted:Wheeled vehicle, 35 tons, ICE with a 4/6 profile. 3 tons of armor. One machinegun with half a ton of ammo and a Thumper artillery piece with two tons ammo. 425k C-Bills, the cheapest I managed to get for a functional motorised artillery system. That's pretty nice value - I'd been looking for something similar but came up with a fusion engine and tracks which is over three times the price (totally not worth it). 425k is an amazing price. Can you cut the MG and squeeze on tracks for a traditional SPG look and feel with the same engine?
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Aug 25, 2011 16:28
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Switching to tracks requires you to dump the MG and half a ton of armor and drives the price up to ~480k. (Alternatively, if you wanna use some Level 2 tech, you could switch half a ton of armor to upgrade the MG to an AMS to mess with Arrow-IV counterbattery attacks. Gets the price up to ~530k.) As for looks, I always envisioned it to be looking similar to this thing. (Hell, I originally just wanted to build a BT-copy of the Archer.  ) The design itself was brewed up with Heavy Metal Vee on a little dare and only used once to take another player in our club down a peg. (A full gun company off-map, loaded up with Copperheads. And a bunch of cheap, fast scouting plattforms with TAG. Guy was calling bullshit about two turns in.)
Magni fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 19:03
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PoptartsNinja posted:
You know, I never noticed that until you brought it up.
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Aug 25, 2011 19:08
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Magni posted:AMS to mess with Arrow-IV counterbattery attacks. This isn't actually a thing. Arrow IV missiles are unaffected by AMS. Rorac posted:You know, I never noticed that until you brought it up. It's one of those subtle things that makes sense the more you think about it. Most of an Omni's pod space is in the arms, and if there's insufficient room and you have to swap out an arm entirely (which is pretty common), a single arm is a hell of a lot easier to swap out than a part of a torso. Also, meshing the targeting systems of an instant-hit laser with a much slower autocannon with an even slower missile system would be a logistical nightmare... a nightmare partially mitigated by Streak SRMs, which is the only missile weapon Clanners will regularly pair with energy weapons in the same location. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 19:17
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PoptartsNinja posted:This isn't actually a thing. Arrow IV missiles are unaffected by AMS. Welp. I guess nobody at my LGS ever realised.
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Aug 25, 2011 19:47
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Yeah, it was a tricky thing even back when the AMS actively shot down incoming missiles (even back then, there was a caveat that said Arrow IVs couldn't be affected). Now that it just gives the enemy a negative on the missile charts which the Arrow IVs don't roll on at all.
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Aug 25, 2011 20:03
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We assumed it's like with other single-missile weapons (NARC and T-bolts), where AMS has a 50/50 chance of stopping the missile.
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Aug 25, 2011 20:35
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I've received orders from 3, and acknowledgement from a 4th that orders will be sent ASAP. I still haven't heard from XavierGenisi. I'm going to give him a little more time, but I'm not holding my breath. Octatonic, please stand by. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 25, 2011 |
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Aug 25, 2011 22:00
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an oddly awful oud posted:Yeah, that's my point. It's such a lazy design. I wouldn't at all if they just cribbed the name, but copying the entire appearance of the vehicle just reeks of laziness and the aesthetics of a WWII tank look really jarringly out-of-place when compared to the futuristic designs already in the game. KnoxZone posted:The only vehicle worth fielding is the Savannah Master. I am sorry that all of you are so wrong. Man was that Warhawk pilot PISSED. PoptartsNinja posted:The Clans put weapons in the arms whenever possible. Look at the second-line designs, they have very different layouts to the Omnis.
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Aug 26, 2011 00:34
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PoptartsNinja posted:Yeah, it was a tricky thing even back when the AMS actively shot down incoming missiles (even back then, there was a caveat that said Arrow IVs couldn't be affected). Now that it just gives the enemy a negative on the missile charts which the Arrow IVs don't roll on at all. It also goes from the absolutely horrible "Shoot down 1d6(2d6 for the clans!) missiles, use that many shots of ammo to 1 shot per flight. Far more effective and actually useful now. Before it was more effective to put on additional armor (if you weren't maxed) rather than an AMS.
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Aug 26, 2011 00:48
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Welp, sent in my orders. I haven't played in about a decade, but I'll try not to let my MG ammo blow us all sky high before I do something useful.
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Aug 26, 2011 01:15
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The old rules were awesome if you used the optional rule that allowed them to shoot as Machine Guns too, and stacked at *least* four AMS on there. gently caress off getting through 4d6 missiles with any significant damage from anything short of dedicated missile support mechs.
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Aug 26, 2011 01:35
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Magni posted:Switching to tracks requires you to dump the MG and half a ton of armor and drives the price up to ~480k. (Alternatively, if you wanna use some Level 2 tech, you could switch half a ton of armor to upgrade the MG to an AMS to mess with Arrow-IV counterbattery attacks. Gets the price up to ~530k.) That's pretty good value, if the MG is actually relevant to how you employ and artillery piece (haha) you could buy a battle security vehicle or something. Cheers for the tip, will tweak my completely pointless battalion armored combat team list. Related note: Copperhead rounds and cheap thumper artillery would be amazing vs the clan invasion, though I can just imagine Steel Viper completely flipping out and declaring man+dog Degza which would actually redouble the amazing now I think about it. Edit: The amount viper would flip out if you could get a multiple round/simultaneous impact battery fire going would actually be the best thing ever seen, 36 artillery rounds plowing into a Steel viper lance all at once? Yes please. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Aug 26, 2011 |
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Aug 26, 2011 02:09
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Mukaikubo posted:12 on 1 is a lot more vicious than you'd think. Dunno how I(or anybody else) missed this before, but it's not too late. 
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Aug 26, 2011 03:23
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Rorac posted:Dunno how I(or anybody else) missed this before, but it's not too late. You let it go for more than a page, it is just gone, brother, gone. Price of progress. Anyway, I am a big fan of symmetry in weaponing as much as possible. Though admittedly this is less of an issue when you are dealing with a mech that can reverse arms; if not, you never want to overbalance your weapons to once side or another or some smartass speedy mech will get right in your other side arc and you are going to be hating life.
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Aug 26, 2011 03:26
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