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Lone Rogue posted:Wait, what the gently caress is wrong with Bulldog? Bulldog was awesome. He was bizarre
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Aug 27, 2011 18:14
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Does anyone remember P.N. Newz? He has the distinction of being the first face I ever booed at a live event. If I remember correctly he lost to Stunning Steve Austin in a match for either the TV or US Title. I don't know why as a 7 year old mark I hated him so much.
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Aug 27, 2011 18:22
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Chunky Delight posted:Does anyone remember P.N. Newz? He has the distinction of being the first face I ever booed at a live event. If I remember correctly he lost to Stunning Steve Austin in a match for either the TV or US Title. I don't know why as a 7 year old mark I hated him so much. You were right to hate him because he was terrible.
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Aug 27, 2011 18:24
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Lone Rogue posted:Wait, what the gently caress is wrong with Bulldog? Bulldog was awesome. Yeah, Bulldog was British. It's Welsh wrestlers who are terrible.
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Aug 27, 2011 18:42
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Save Russian Jews posted:don't you get it, all wrestlers are crappy workers save [lists a bunch of people i like] It's sad how people seem to have this opinion about wrestling. I used to when I was a teenager but eventually you learn that there is more to pro wrestling than a loving moveset. Even those barely mobile fat guys you see at the local indy tend to have a lot more wrestling ability than one would give them credit for. Bulldog was agile, powerful and could have the best match of the year with the right opponent. His program with Shawn in 1996 should have been so much better but because it was the WWF, Vince had to throw on some lovely storyline between Diana and Shawn and supposed rape and it just took you completely out of whatever they did in the ring. Bulldog being the second best wrestler out of a four man team is not a bad thing whatsoever. It's more about who is wrestler three and wrestler four. And even then (while I'm ranting), gently caress people who completely hate Sid. Sid was over as gently caress. ECW smarks used to hate on him all of the time but the moment he stepped into an ECW Arena they marked out like loving school girls. Sid is better than you.
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Aug 27, 2011 19:43
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Lone Rogue posted:It's sad how people seem to have this opinion about wrestling. I hate Sid for that sloppy as gently caress powerbomb that he gave Brian Pillman. That thing was just unsafe.
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Aug 27, 2011 19:46
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bobkatt013 posted:I hate Sid for that sloppy as gently caress powerbomb that he gave Brian Pillman. That thing was just unsafe. Unfortunately, it was the fault of three sides: Sid, Pillman and WCW. Sid shouldn't have done the move, Pillman shouldn't have agreed to it and WCW should have never booked the finish to be Sid powerbombing Pillman in a loving War Games match with caged roof barely ten feet high. A chokeslam would have worked so much better. Plus him doing it the second time to do it properly was stupid but I've seen tons of wrestlers do that. "Oops hosed up the spot, do it again".
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Aug 27, 2011 19:55
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Lone Rogue posted:
Shocking that a guy who was booked only to squash people in seconds would get over in ECW... Except that Sid was often not over as gently caress. That is why companies that put him on top lost lots of money during those periods.
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Aug 27, 2011 19:59
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Just because someone is over doesn't mean they don't suck. Sid is poo poo.
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Aug 27, 2011 20:07
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MassRayPer posted:Shocking that a guy who was booked only to squash people in seconds would get over in ECW... Sid was over but wasn't over enough to make money for any company. Especially since he was popular in one of the worst times for the wrestling business. I recall Observer doing a list of the best and worst drawing WWF Champions of all time and I remember that Sid still beat out Shawn and Diesel (this was prior to Shawn's return). Not drawing money in 1995 and 1996 isn't something held against Shawn Michaels when someone argues he was over so I don't see why it would be held against Sid. EDIT: Maybe Sid just has a habit of messing up powerbombs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh6hXIfexlg Paper Jam Dipper fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 27, 2011 |
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Aug 27, 2011 20:09
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Lone Rogue posted:Sid was over but wasn't over enough to make money for any company. Especially since he was popular in one of the worst times for the wrestling business. I recall Observer doing a list of the best and worst drawing WWF Champions of all time and I remember that Sid still beat out Shawn and Diesel (this was prior to Shawn's return). HBK missed out on the Observer Hall of Fame when he was first eligible (right before his comeback) and that period was definitely a factor back then. There were periods in the late 80s, early 90s and in his last WCW run when Sid was not over at all. He wasn't drawing when he'd be put on top no matter the era, and he was rarely "over as gently caress" as you described him.
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Aug 27, 2011 20:35
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Oh god, I've gotten up to the Nitro where Kevin Sullivan brings out "The Final Solution"...Lone Rogue posted:And even then (while I'm ranting), gently caress people who completely hate Sid. Sid was over as gently caress. ECW smarks used to hate on him all of the time but the moment he stepped into an ECW Arena they marked out like loving school girls. Sid is better than you. I distinctly remember a PPV where Sid beat Justin Credible by DQ and then Sid leaving the promotion shortly after. DQs in ECW? loving ridiculous. I remember reading something about Sid not wanting to be pinned by Credible on his way out, so the match ended in DQ.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:03
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I loved Sids run as the millenium man late in his WCW career. He had Lil Naitch as personal ref/cheerleader/scorekeeper and would come out after matches and randomly chokeslam people, pin them and then add to his "undefeated" streak.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:05
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MrBling posted:I loved Sids run as the millenium man late in his WCW career. He had Lil Naitch as personal ref/cheerleader/scorekeeper and would come out after matches and randomly chokeslam people, pin them and then add to his "undefeated" streak. Did you misspell "millennium" on purpose the same way WCW did the entire time Sid had that gimmick?
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Aug 27, 2011 21:11
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MrBling posted:I loved Sids run as the millenium man late in his WCW career. He had Lil Naitch as personal ref/cheerleader/scorekeeper and would come out after matches and randomly chokeslam people, pin them and then add to his "undefeated" streak. I liked the gimmick too, it wasn't handled well after a month or two but it was basically the best way to use Sid in WCW.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:17
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I picked a very poor way of insulting Sid and Ahmed Johnson. My mistake. As penance, I will watch Bulldog vs. Bret from SS 1992 and clips of the British Bulldogs murdering jobbers from the 1980s. Speaking of Sid and the millennium man gimmick, is it just me, or did Death of WCW see the whole angle wrong? The whole streak thing seemed like a goofy schtick he was doing just to instigate Goldberg, but the book seems to think that the whole thing was supposed to be taken seriously.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:20
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I think it was also partly to make fun of Chris Jericho since he was using the same name in WWF at the time. But yeah, it definitely was not a serious gimmick.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:21
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Here's the main thing with Sid: He was awful and hatable. He didn't give a poo poo about the business, he was a violent coward, he was a terrible wrestler, he wasn't a good promo, he was completely awful in every way. You pretty much have to be able to understand why people hate him, because everything about him was worthy of hate. However, he did have charisma and in spite of how bad he was he could be enjoyable. You still knew he was awful, but I could still like Sid in spite of it.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:26
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Did Tony Schiavone sell it as the obviously comedic streak it was supposed to be? Many confusing interpretations of WCW angles came about simply because of Schiavone's idiocy and inability to correctly describe what was happening. That and the book was obviously compiled from old Wrestling Observer reports. It may have come off as serious in those reports because of the way Meltzer wrote it and they just didn't bother to track down old episodes and watch.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:47
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Tato posted:Did Tony Schiavone sell it as the obviously comedic streak it was supposed to be? Many confusing interpretations of WCW angles came about simply because of Schiavone's idiocy and inability to correctly describe what was happening. Or at that point you were unsure if something was to be taken seriously or taken as a joke.
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Aug 27, 2011 21:49
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bobkatt013 posted:Or at that point you were unsure if something was to be taken seriously or taken as a joke. That's how I looked at it. I wasn't sure if it was just a parody on Jericho's countdown or if they were honestly treating those chokeslam wins as a way to build up Sid vs. Goldberg.
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Aug 27, 2011 22:10
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MassRayPer posted:Here's the main thing with Sid: I gotta upload a promo he did on Raw where he called Bret Hart the "Bret Man."  It was always so hilarious because he had this really intense delivery and intense facial look but he'd say really loving goofy things that made me crack up every time. And yeah, Sid totally phoned it in. They had him defend against Michaels and Bret and both matches sucked. But part of that was WWF's booking that kind of blew back then too.
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Aug 28, 2011 06:12
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MrBling posted:I loved Sids run as the millenium man late in his WCW career. He had Lil Naitch as personal ref/cheerleader/scorekeeper and would come out after matches and randomly chokeslam people, pin them and then add to his "undefeated" streak. Sid's streak was hilarious. It would grow and sometimes shrink without explanation during the course of a single show.
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Aug 28, 2011 11:16
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Save Russian Jews posted:It's Scott Steiner, a man so obsessed with white that he made his hair and beard white, and wore white pants to the ring a bunch of times Scott Steiner used the name "White Thunder" for a short while in WCW too.
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Aug 29, 2011 05:02
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Even if it's a fake comedy streak, coming out and consistently wrecking dudes with chokeslams isn't the worst way to get a guy over. Better than trading wins every week anyway.
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Aug 29, 2011 15:00
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I remember Tony Schiavone selling Sid's streak as legitimate, and just being pissed about how stupid they thought their fans were to not catch on. But for all I know, WCW Worldwide every week would have been Sid in 20 matches pinning jobbers, I never watched that poo poo...
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Aug 29, 2011 16:31
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Lamuella posted:Sid's streak was hilarious. It would grow and sometimes shrink without explanation during the course of a single show. Definitely. At the time it seemed to me like it was a tongue-in-cheek kinda thing and I was really into it. Sid was just crazy enough to make it work and to have it toe the line of serious and wacky. Orange Carlisle fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Aug 29, 2011 |
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Aug 29, 2011 16:34
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So was Tony Schiavone really terrible because he just phoned it in or was he just really incompetent? The only time I could tolerate Tony was when he was joined by Bobby Heenan and Dusty Rhodes. I hate to say it but that was my second favorite announce team. First of course being Bobby and Gorilla.
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Aug 29, 2011 17:04
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Chunky Delight posted:So was Tony Schiavone really terrible because he just phoned it in or was he just really incompetent? Some say he phoned it in for years because he felt he was next in line for the job Bischoff got and he was upset about getting passed over. Even when he didn't phone it in, he was only about as good as face Cole. His hyperbole, the fact he didn't know the names of any moves, and his tendency to ignore the match to talk about the nWo all added up to him not being very well liked.
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Aug 29, 2011 17:13
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Chunky Delight posted:So was Tony Schiavone really terrible because he just phoned it in or was he just really incompetent? Tony had a way of sounding really fake as he put over storylines, but he was honestly better than people give him credit for. Or maybe I just have a soft spot for the announcers who do everything they can to put a product over.
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Aug 29, 2011 19:15
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Lone Rogue posted:Tony had a way of sounding really fake as he put over storylines, but he was honestly better than people give him credit for. Or maybe I just have a soft spot for the announcers who do everything they can to put a product over. His commentary was comical to a point. Every night was the greatest night in the history of the sport...
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Aug 29, 2011 19:34
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Astro7x posted:His commentary was comical to a point. Every night was the greatest night in the history of the sport... Meh I'd rather that then guys talking about how lovely their tag team champions, their money in the bank holder and their women are.
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Aug 29, 2011 19:38
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Astro7x posted:His commentary was comical to a point. Every night was the greatest night in the history of the sport... I think it's all your taste, really. I loved Vince and Tony acting like what we saw was the best thing ever every match. It made you care a little more into what was going on. Tony had his tendency to completely ignore the action in the ring and go on about the main event, but when something in the ring was exciting he would call it (like a big plancha or top rope something). Jim Ross in his prime was the best of both worlds but I just cannot hate Tony Shiavonie for trying to put a show over as the greatest night in the history of the sport. At least he's trying to make me care, and at least he's calling it a sport.
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Aug 29, 2011 19:43
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Astro7x posted:His commentary was comical to a point. Every night was the greatest night in the history of the sport... He wasn't actually like that all the time. But like most everything else with WCW people sure do like to exaggerate all the bad things. Schiavone was a competent play-by-play guy who was told over the years to focus more and more on the big storylines and eventually around 98 or so he just stopped caring. Schiavone could work just fine with Tenay and Brain/Dusty besides him and I always find myself defending him for some reason.
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Aug 29, 2011 19:43
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Astro7x posted:I remember Tony Schiavone selling Sid's streak as legitimate,
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Aug 29, 2011 23:24
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I like Schiavone much more than I've ever liked Cole or Lawler, even if he did have a strange obsession with sidewalk slams. I suppose this is comparable to Cole's strange obsession with scoop slams.
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Aug 29, 2011 23:39
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The Wise Teen posted:I like Schiavone much more than I've ever liked Cole or Lawler, even if he did have a strange obsession with sidewalk slams. I suppose this is comparable to Cole's strange obsession with scoop slams. What about Bischoff's reverse back jump front kick?
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Aug 30, 2011 00:38
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Moose Bigelow posted:What about Bischoff's reverse back jump front kick? I remember him going back to the booth once just to criticize how Jim Ross called every kick a "savate kick" allegedly.
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Aug 30, 2011 00:39
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I am finally getting up to Uncensored 1996 and the Doomsday Cage Match. I can find no better example of why wrestlers should not have creative control in their contracts. Tony Schiavone closes out the night... "This is great television history. I've never seen a match like this on television. I've never seen anything like this. It surpasses the Super Bowl, the World Series, anything you want to name! This is tremendous!" Astro7x fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Aug 30, 2011 |
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Aug 30, 2011 04:40
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Sorry to bring this back up, but a small correction is in order:Karma Tornado posted:He had a gold tank, for god's sake. I don't know how people could've missed him. The tank was PLATINUM, good sir. Not Gold. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ZvzIOO6aU
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Aug 30, 2011 11:30
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