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I've been thinking about applying to entry level 2D art jobs lately. I've looked through the various job banks listed in the OP to see what's out there and what people are looking for but I still feel really confused. Some places want just a character artist/pixel artist/environment artist and some want you to know 3D programs and Flash and be an animator on top of having traditional drawing skills. Most are saying they want someone with at least 3 years experience too. I've also tried finding portfolios of 2D artists to compare myself with but the few I've found haven't been incredibly helpful in my situation. Most have been like a 3D portfolio with a meager 2D section or the portfolio of a person who has been in the industry longer than I've been alive and is specifically geared to just one type of art. I know every studio is going to be different but in general, what kind of things should I be putting into my portfolio? I have a bachelor's in graphic design (although I haven't done anything more than a few freelance jobs a year with it lately). I know Photoshop, Illustrator, Painter, InDesign, Quark and some basic HTML and CSS. Assuming my art is up to snuff, is that enough? Do they like seeing people with design degrees? Are knowing things like Flash and being able to animate vital parts of most 2D artist's jobs? Is an entry level full-time 2D artist job just a pipe dream? Ugh I am so full of dumb questions, sorry.
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Sep 6, 2011 16:35
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Tell me what to do. Tell your boss. This is #1. He/she needs to know about any potential flaws in your work, for your own performance review sake, as well as for the end product. #2, take what leave you need to take. If your boss is good, this shouldn't be a problem.
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Sep 6, 2011 16:46
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Night Gaunt posted:Stuff. Nothing to add directly, but troll through CG Hub, there are bajillions of 2d artists on there.
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Sep 6, 2011 16:55
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Chasiubao posted:Also, I've never heard of a part-time QA spot in this industry, but I suppose the times they are a-changin'! We have a few part-time testers now, but they are all established testers who are going back to school. We don't hire anyone on as part-time to start with.
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Sep 6, 2011 17:02
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Tell me what to do. You have one father. You'll have many jobs. Go see him.
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Sep 6, 2011 17:32
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Night Gaunt posted:I've been thinking about applying to entry level 2D art jobs lately. I've looked through the various job banks listed in the OP to see what's out there and what people are looking for but I still feel really confused. Some places want just a character artist/pixel artist/environment artist and some want you to know 3D programs and Flash and be an animator on top of having traditional drawing skills. Most are saying they want someone with at least 3 years experience too. I'm a programmer, not an artist, but I've worked closely enough with the artists (embedded in the same room for a while) to know that the only thing that matters is your portfolio, and then a drawing test later after you've passed the first hurdle. We have some artists that know Flash, some with degrees, but none of that really mattered when it came to getting their foot in the door. Build up an awesome portfolio of your best pieces (for whatever position you're looking for, be it concept, character, etc.) and send it around. If you've got the resources, you should stop in on a trade show or gaming convention and bring your nicely bound portfolio. Stop at the booths of the gaming companies and ask if there are any artists who might want to check out your portfolio. I know that we've looked at portfolios in this setting, and the worst thing you'll get is told that they don't care or don't have anyone there to look at it (which won't hurt you if you also email it in, since they won't know who you are.)
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Sep 6, 2011 17:49
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Tell me what to do. Get your bum on a plane. Sorry to hear about your father 
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Sep 6, 2011 18:42
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Night Gaunt posted:I've been thinking about applying to entry level 2D art jobs lately. I've looked through the various job banks listed in the OP to see what's out there and what people are looking for but I still feel really confused. Some places want just a character artist/pixel artist/environment artist and some want you to know 3D programs and Flash and be an animator on top of having traditional drawing skills. Most are saying they want someone with at least 3 years experience too. I got my job as a 2D animator with a reel that was 90% 3D. I just sent them a few extra things I had done in flash and they hired me. That said, I think this wouldn't fly in most places and you would be better off with a 2D portfolio if that's what you are looking for. As for the other questions, the only thing that matters is your portfolio, if you are the best candidate for the job, do you think they would care how much experience you have or if you have a degree?
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Sep 6, 2011 22:54
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Night Gaunt posted:I've been thinking about applying to entry level 2D art jobs lately. I've looked through the various job banks listed in the OP to see what's out there and what people are looking for but I still feel really confused. Some places want just a character artist/pixel artist/environment artist and some want you to know 3D programs and Flash and be an animator on top of having traditional drawing skills. Most are saying they want someone with at least 3 years experience too. The really loving annoying thing about the industry is that no matter what you decide to focus on for your portfolio, devs will see it and think you are weak in every other technical area or they will want to see some other very specific line of work. Or you can include samples from all sorts of fields and then they will reject you saying they want a specialist. I'd been doing that dance for the last two years before i got my current job and it doesn't seem worth it for a 2d post. (redacted) But anyway, as a 2d artist in a small studio (which you'll have a much better chance at getting into than a big place) you'll be doing everything from background matte paintings, character designs, animation, HUD designs, fixing other people's UIs, if this begins to pin down what you need to be doing a little then I think the best thing might be to consider teaming up with a programmer and making a very small game, to which you can say "I did all the visuals to this game, here, play it". A complete game project I reckon would impress people alongside a folio showing off traditional art skills. The folio shows you have a strong founding in traditional art, but a playable game shows that you have the technical knowledge to actually implement your art without doing crap like using 30000x30000 pixel arrowhead textures. GeeCee fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Sep 7, 2011 |
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Sep 6, 2011 23:41
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Aliginge posted:The really loving annoying thing about the industry is that no matter what you decide to focus on for your portfolio, devs will see it and think you are weak in every other technical area or they will want to see some other very specific line of work. Or you can include samples from all sorts of fields and then they will reject you saying they want a specialist. I'd been doing that dance for the last two years before i got my current job and it doesn't seem worth it for a 2d post. Aliginge posted:poo poo, as a Junior 2D artist at DNA studios my portfolio wasn't even seen. I got my foot in the door purely by getting a recommendation from a programmer friend and then knocking some socks off on the week's trial.
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Sep 6, 2011 23:51
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Does anyone have any idea of how hit or miss Valve is on accepting titles? My long term plans for the next year or 2 include trying to make a large game with a friend after I finish up some smaller projects. The scope of the game would definitely be on scale with a lot of other indie games on the service like Capsized and such. They seem rather mysterious on what they accept and I wonder if there is any actual rhyme or reason. I can hit XBLIG with the game but it seems if I did not hit Steam then it would be pretty crippling. Are they more receptive to C++ native games?
r2x fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Sep 7, 2011 |
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Sep 7, 2011 06:24
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Aliginge posted:poo poo, as a Junior 2D artist at DNA studios my portfolio wasn't even seen. I got my foot in the door purely by getting a recommendation from a programmer friend and then knocking some socks off on the week's trial. There was a degree of "it's who you know" but it wasn't nepotism!
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Sep 7, 2011 07:49
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Well then I retract a big degree of my cynicism 
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Sep 7, 2011 07:57
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r2x posted:Does anyone have any idea of how hit or miss Valve is on accepting titles? My long term plans for the next year or 2 include trying to make a large game with a friend after I finish up some smaller projects. The scope of the game would definitely be on scale with a lot of other indie games on the service like Capsized and such. They seem rather mysterious on what they accept and I wonder if there is any actual rhyme or reason. I can hit XBLIG with the game but it seems if I did not hit Steam then it would be pretty crippling. Are they more receptive to C++ native games? This is a subject of great debate in the indie community but generally the answer is that you need: * A really fun game * A level of polish consistent with other Steam titles * A game that appeals to Steam's audience (core gamers) * Voodoo, black magic, and maybe some sexual favors In short, don't rely on "We'll get on Steam" as your business plan. Make a game that you can make profitable without Steam, and if Steam accepts it then it's a bonus.
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Sep 7, 2011 09:19
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Also don't rely on XBLIG as your business plan, because outside of a few breakaway successes hardly anybody seems to make any money on it.
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Sep 7, 2011 09:27
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Vino posted:In short, don't rely on "We'll get on Steam" as your business plan. Make a game that you can make profitable without Steam, and if Steam accepts it then it's a bonus. Better business plan: make sure your game has the level of polish required to get on Steam, and the level of visual polish or quirk necessary to make the press rounds and get some notice. That should get you onto Steam. You can also talk to various PC publishers that'll help you close the gap, if the game is solid.\ EDIT: Useful quotes from a recent Team Meat interview: quote:PC vs Xbox sales Shalinor fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Sep 7, 2011 |
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Sep 7, 2011 15:37
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FreakyZoid posted:Also don't rely on XBLIG as your business plan, because outside of a few breakaway successes hardly anybody seems to make any money on it. And the rest of you seem to back up what I had already thought. Black magic it is.
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Sep 7, 2011 16:26
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Save Russian Jews posted:Bethesda supposedly has a QA Intern position available, Stormin Mormon; I was considering applying (disabled vet preference heh), but my knowledge of QA pretty much extends to "what it stands for" and my programming skills are probably worse. If you've got any better than what I'm working with, it might be a good gig (paid, if I remember correctly, just not paid well). Then again, I'm just a guy who probably knows less than you, so take all of this information as such. Note Block posted:It's basically unheard of, yeah.
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Sep 7, 2011 16:50
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GeauxSteve posted:Our facility offers part time work for QA. I said "basically"  Can you say what company you are with?
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Sep 7, 2011 17:26
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Shalinor posted:That should get you onto Steam. Should is a big word. McMillen's advice was good but there's lots of popular and even successful games that Steam simply turned down. A good example is Gemini Rue, the author even had his previous game on Steam but was turned down for his second offering. If you're putting all of this investment into a video game and you need to make sure it will pay off, then "Pray we get on Steam" isn't a very good business plan. I wouldn't say that any large-scale game not being on Steam being screwed is a foregone conclusion. It's definitely possible to be successful off of Steam, but for indies it's an uphill battle. If you want the obvious example it'd of course be Minecraft. There's a bunch of games in the Humble Bundles that did well and aren't on Steam. And of course, there's a poo poo-ton of games on Steam that aren't doing all that well.
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Sep 8, 2011 07:38
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Vino posted:There's a bunch of games in the Humble Bundles that did well and aren't on Steam. And of course, there's a poo poo-ton of games on Steam that aren't doing all that well. Though once they're included in the humble bundle, they tend to end up on Steam.
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Sep 8, 2011 08:56
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Vino posted:Should is a big word. McMillen's advice was good but there's lots of popular and even successful games that Steam simply turned down. A good example is Gemini Rue, the author even had his previous game on Steam but was turned down for his second offering. If you're putting all of this investment into a video game and you need to make sure it will pay off, then "Pray we get on Steam" isn't a very good business plan. Planning to get onto Steam puts you in the right mindset to succeed even if Steam refuses you. The sorts of games that succeed elsewhere tend to be the sorts of games that would have also succeeded on Steam. Ignoring Steam, and beginning with the assumption that yours is a misunderstood unique snowflake of a title, tends to imply that your game is in some way difficult to market - which will magnify the hurdles you encounter in finding a market period, whether or not Steam accepts you. I suppose you're right though, 'screwed' was a trifle much. The take-away is don't give up, but also don't fall into the trap of believing that Steam is an impossible goal / not the goal you should be aiming for. EDIT: (massively edited, the first run was wordy and meandering and was written before I had tea) Shalinor fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Sep 8, 2011 |
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Sep 8, 2011 14:04
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Why does steam even refuse to let legitimate professionally made games on its platform? Isn't one of the benefits of digital distribution infinite shelf space? How does valve suffer from having a more diverse range of games available?
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Sep 8, 2011 15:42
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Applebee123 posted:Why does steam even refuse to let legitimate professionally made games on its platform? Isn't one of the benefits of digital distribution infinite shelf space? How does valve suffer from having a more diverse range of games available? I would guess that they don't want to end up like the iOS app store: flooded with 90% crap. That only explains why they're such sticklers, though. Why they refuse specific cases, it's anyone's guess.
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Sep 8, 2011 15:51
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mutata posted:I would guess that they don't want to end up like the iOS app store: flooded with 90% crap. That only explains why they're such sticklers, though. Why they refuse specific cases, it's anyone's guess. I own most of the games on Steam and uh, most of them are crap 
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Sep 8, 2011 16:29
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Amrosorma posted:I own most of the games on Steam and uh, most of them are crap
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Sep 8, 2011 16:31
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mutata posted:I would guess that they don't want to end up like the iOS app store: flooded with 90% crap. That only explains why they're such sticklers, though. Why they refuse specific cases, it's anyone's guess. Emphasis mine. At least Apple will tell you why your app was rejected. Steam won't say, and also says "don't contact us to find out" (paraphrasing).
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Sep 8, 2011 16:42
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Shalinor posted:It's nowhere near the same ratio as iOS. Steam is a beautiful haven of quality compared to the AppStore. Oh certainly! But that should say more about the App Store than anything else.
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Sep 8, 2011 16:43
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Shalinor posted:It's nowhere near the same ratio as iOS. Steam is a beautiful haven of quality compared to the AppStore. Indeed. Hell, half the stuff on the app store is "500 points for (some other stupid iPhone timewaster game)!" (No offense to anyone who might actually work on one of those games!) The trouble with infinite shelf space is that with no standards, what you end up with is essentially just the internet. Infinite accessibility is great and all, but it's much more likely to produce something akin to Youtube than it is to produce Hollywood. Especially now that the line between "professional" and "amateur" game development is blurring significantly. The indie scene really just boils down to a bunch of people making games as a hobby and having them end up being good enough to do it as a job. *edit* Penny_Dreadful posted:Same reason why you have to pay to post here. This is the most brilliantly succinct explanation for Steam's approval model. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Sep 8, 2011 |
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Sep 8, 2011 16:45
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SAHChandler posted:At least Apple will tell you why your app was rejected. Steam won't say, and also says "don't contact us to find out" (paraphrasing). Steam isn't rejecting games based on hard criteria, they're curating a collection based on taste and instinct. One of the primary metrics they seem to use is "does it seem awesome to other people," which is why getting buzz BEFORE submitting (or re-submitting after you get said buzz) makes a lot of sense. Some odd refusals or acceptances do occur, likely due to certain talent scouts with unique tastes, but on a whole, what they're doing makes a lot of sense. If you can't compete in that sphere? Then you talk to publishers, who can help you get the necessary buzz, do necessary QA, etc, and generally help nudge you into Steam more effectively. Publishers are far from irrelevant - they're still quite useful, and are vital if you're not up to handling distribution/QA/PR/etc yourself. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Sep 8, 2011 |
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Sep 8, 2011 16:52
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Applebee123 posted:How does valve suffer from having a more diverse range of games available? Same reason why you have to pay to post here.
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Sep 8, 2011 16:52
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Shalinor posted:This is because they don't want to be drawn into a debate as to why Horse Beater 5000 is in fact up to the task of competing on their service, if only Steam would clarify its guidelines / because clearly it meets their guidelines to the letter, etc. I think part of the reason it works is that Valve has always had a very good eye for quality. A lot of their hires are people who made a Source mod/university students making a game project, whom Valve contacted and offered a job because of the promise demonstrated by their work. The reason their games are all so good is because of the very critical approach they have towards game design, and they can apply that same approach when appraising a product to add to Steam. That said, everything you've said here is true; because generating buzz will raise ANYONE'S appraisal of your work - if something is well known or popular it's a lot easier for someone to give it a chance than if someone just sends them an e-mail with a subject line "Hey can you put my game on Steam? (Game is attached)"
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Sep 8, 2011 17:02
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Has any got any experience of the Brunel University Digital Games: Theory and Design MA or the students coming off of it? I am considering trying to save some money and take it next September (can possibly join the course starting in a couple of weeks but I doubt I could secure funds or move in time) The plan I'm considering is to do UDK and Unity stuff around whatever job I can get this next year and see what seems best next summer. Edit: oh hey it's that game I worked on. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Sep 8, 2011 |
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Sep 8, 2011 17:33
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Shalinor posted:Planning to get onto Steam puts you in the right mindset to succeed even if Steam refuses you. A good point. Don't get your hopes up though is all I'm saying. I often tell new developers to go and download some of the games on Steam so that they can see what the quality/polish bar should be for their own games. Shalinor posted:Ignoring Steam, and beginning with the assumption that yours is a misunderstood unique snowflake of a title Wow is that how my post came off? I wasn't trying to say that at all. I think we agree in that a designer should plan his games towards something that will sell on Steam, so that even if they're not accepted to Steam they still have something marketable. All I'm saying is, if Steam eventually rejects you, you need a plan B.
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Sep 8, 2011 19:36
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What about people who are going with the mindset that they know that the game they made won't sell well, but want to do it for the fun and experience. I'm working on a game, and I know it's not going to sell well. It's pixelated art style and it is a platform. And yet I want to do it because I always wanted to make a videogame. (as much as that sounds kiddish) I mean I'm putting up for XBLIG for my friends to download or see if anyone else if they want to bother.. Is it wrong for me to purse something like this knowing the outcome? It has nothing to do with the defeatist attitude or anything.
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Sep 8, 2011 20:04
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Shindragon posted:What about people who are going with the mindset that they know that the game they made won't sell well, but want to do it for the fun and experience. I'm working on a game, and I know it's not going to sell well. It's pixelated art style and it is a platform. And yet I want to do it because I always wanted to make a videogame. (as much as that sounds kiddish) I mean I'm putting up for XBLIG for my friends to download or see if anyone else if they want to bother.. Is it wrong for me to purse something like this knowing the outcome? It has nothing to do with the defeatist attitude or anything. You're asking if you should stop trying a hobby because it's pointless? If you're not expecting to go anywhere with it and you're having fun, what's the harm?
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Sep 8, 2011 20:17
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Ah it's out of curiosity really. By no means was I giving up. Drawing is something I really enjoying doing, and I"m glad to able to put those skills into something.
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Sep 8, 2011 20:32
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Gaze ye all upon a rarity. http://www.curse.com/content/LeadEditor.aspx
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Sep 8, 2011 20:47
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EDIT: ^^ Well that's something I've never seen.Vino posted:Wow is that how my post came off? I wasn't trying to say that at all. I think we agree in that a designer should plan his games towards something that will sell on Steam, so that even if they're not accepted to Steam they still have something marketable. All I'm saying is, if Steam eventually rejects you, you need a plan B. That was addressed more at some of the "BLU BLU WHY IS STEAM NOT TAKING MY TERRIBLE PUZZLE GAME THAT ONLY I ENJOY" posts I've seen on various blogs. I was just waxing poetical there for a sec / I try to keep it reelzy, and get down with the verbage sometimes. Shindragon posted:What about people who are going with the mindset that they know that the game they made won't sell well, but want to do it for the fun and experience. I'm working on a game, and I know it's not going to sell well. It's pixelated art style and it is a platform. And yet I want to do it because I always wanted to make a videogame. (as much as that sounds kiddish) I mean I'm putting up for XBLIG for my friends to download or see if anyone else if they want to bother.. Is it wrong for me to purse something like this knowing the outcome? It has nothing to do with the defeatist attitude or anything. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 8, 2011 |
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Sep 8, 2011 21:01
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Shindragon posted:What about people who are going with the mindset that they know that the game they made won't sell well, but want to do it for the fun and experience. I'm working on a game, and I know it's not going to sell well. It's pixelated art style and it is a platform. And yet I want to do it because I always wanted to make a videogame. (as much as that sounds kiddish) I mean I'm putting up for XBLIG for my friends to download or see if anyone else if they want to bother.. Is it wrong for me to purse something like this knowing the outcome? It has nothing to do with the defeatist attitude or anything. If you're making it as a hobby, or to develop skills for a job, go for it. If you're trying to make a living off of it, as opposed to just hoping for some beer money, then you need to put more thought and planning into it. Also, sidenote, XBLIG is a terrible place to try to make a living. AFAIK Dishwasher Dude Dan Silva (Zombies in it, the XBLA games Dishwasher Dark Samurai or whatever and Dishwasher 2) is the only guy to actually make real money on it. Radiangames (https://www.radiangames.com) chronicled his attempt to make a living on XBLIG and suffice it to say it did not work out, which sucks because Luke is ridiculously talented, experienced, and capable, and was having a blast doing the indy thing.
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Sep 8, 2011 21:05
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