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I don't read the other thread; were there actually that many responses involving Dmitri dying? Or more than one mentioning Kvatch? Because I pretty much always assume that, unless the author of a CYOA is only giving multiple choice options, what QueerPope said is what usually happens. I don't really have a problem with that because only using audience input will just turn your comic into porn, eventually.
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Sep 6, 2011 00:43
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Yes, but in that case it's definitely railroading, which Kazerad is denying doing. edit: minecraft-avatar-guy posted before me.
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Sep 6, 2011 00:45
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I'm sure there's a long-term narrative reason for it and all but Dmitri seemed like a nice guy and I'm sad that he's dead 
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Sep 6, 2011 01:00
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Haledjian posted:Anyway, obviously it's sad to see Dmitri get merked, but I'm kind of mixed on it from a narrative standpoint. On the one hand, his arc feels really incomplete and kind of pointless now. On the other hand, it's definitely in keeping with the masochistic tendencies of the story so far. Something curious I've been noticing in this little webcomicing adventure is that readers sometimes have trouble differentiating between actual information and authorial mistakes. When new information conflicts with their assumptions, their first inclination is often to assume I did something wrong. Kgummy's comment above is a good example: he looks at the latest update and says "Dmitri should have known why nobody talks about the Kvatch Mages Guild", assuming I made an error. Another reader might look at the update and instead wonder "how come Dmitri didn't know?", assuming it to be another piece of the bizarre puzzle. It should be pretty clear by now that information about the Kvatch Mages Guild is intended to seem contradictory. That's not to say it's the reader's fault if they misinterpret my actions as "mistakes". In a way, it's a limitation of the webcomic medium. In a book, you can just tell someone "read the next few chapters, then it will make sense". In a webcomic, the best you can say is "check back every day for several weeks, then hopefully it will make sense". To a certain degree, you just have to trust in the author's competence. Which isn't always easy. I mean, I'm pretty sure all of us have had at least one webcomic we read for years before realizing the author actually had no idea what he was doing.
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Sep 6, 2011 01:22
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Opposing Farce posted:I'm sure there's a long-term narrative reason for it and all but Dmitri seemed like a nice guy and I'm sad that he's dead The reason is to make a catgirl cry when she decides she's a big adventurer, trots off to the nearest ruins and finds the corpse of her threesome buddy and a nice letter. 
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Sep 6, 2011 01:24
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I did add a bit after that sentence, mentioning that the Necromancer's might have been out of the news, though. I realized that, as I was typing it up, there could have been something that we didn't know that we didn't know.
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Sep 6, 2011 01:31
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SynthOrange posted:The reason is to make a catgirl cry when she decides she's a big adventurer, trots off to the nearest ruins and finds the corpse of her threesome buddy and a nice letter. That was pretty much my assumption too.
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Sep 6, 2011 02:17
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SynthOrange posted:The reason is to make a catgirl cry when she decides she's a big adventurer, trots off to the nearest ruins and finds the corpse of her threesome buddy and a nice letter. To me it seems more as though the point was to give gro-Upp an item that would make it impossible for Katia to even harm him, so she can fail again and feel bad about herself. If he's railroading anything, it would be that. I think somebody already pointed out that all the items Dmitri could have gifted would have been useful for gro-Upp to rob Katia again without risking damage from her fireballs. As to Dmitri's death, if you read the last few updates and compare them to when gro-Upp robbed Katia (without killing her, obviously) it looks like Dmitri was on track to escape alive until people suggested he mention Kvatch.
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Sep 6, 2011 02:51
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EvanSchenck posted:To me it seems more as though the point was to give gro-Upp an item that would make it impossible for Katia to even harm him
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Sep 6, 2011 03:29
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Prequel: The Story That Hates You (Not You, The Audience, But You, Personally)
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Sep 6, 2011 06:48
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Zereth posted:By which you mean "do 30% less fire damage", right? And given his displayed level of competence, which is much higher than a mudcrab, I don't think she can cast enough lovely fire spells even without the ring. I don't think you've worked out how this universe works yet. That 30% will be the difference between her winning and losing, specifically to ensure maximum misery. Or if it isn't, it'll be remarked upon about how much it isn't while she fails for some other really obvious or painful reason. EvanSchenk posted:To me it seems more as though the point was to give gro-Upp an item that would make it impossible for Katia to even harm him, so she can fail again and feel bad about herself. If he's railroading anything, it would be that. I think somebody already pointed out that all the items Dmitri could have gifted would have been useful for gro-Upp to rob Katia again without risking damage from her fireballs. I was one such pointing person, although I didn't have an inkling that was what we were doing until Gro-Upp made the scene. I think I'll further speculate that Katia won't learn any non-fire attack spells between now and when she meets Gro-Upp, to ensure that the fire resistance ring is enough to give him the edge. Kazerad may try to do something else to avoid giving the readers what they expect, but if it's some other sort of workaround it'll probably seem like an intentional, possibly forced dodge. Dolash fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Sep 6, 2011 |
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Sep 6, 2011 07:12
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Then again, this could be an elaborate red herring. Maybe Asotil will still be hanging around the next time Gro-Upp and Katia bump into each other. Or they'll never see each other again and just have a bunch of really close encounters.
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Sep 6, 2011 08:06
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I'm thinking that the Necro's hideout must be near the city Katia was in (Anvil?) and she and Asotil will run into Gro-Upp in his way out of the ruins.
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Sep 6, 2011 15:06
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Zereth posted:By which you mean "do 30% less fire damage", right? And given his displayed level of competence, which is much higher than a mudcrab, I don't think she can cast enough lovely fire spells even without the ring. She's also completely depleted her magicka by practicing on the mudcrabs, so unless she runs across another shrine she won't be able to cast fireball anyway. The point isn't that she could have beaten gro-Upp with fireball, the point is that she would have been able to try to do something instead of being a helpless loser. It's also not excluding the possibility that Kazerad will do the same thing he did at the dinner party, and he's just elaborately setting up a plot point that is avoided at the last moment by something much funnier.
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Sep 6, 2011 16:59
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Leaping Mutton posted:I'm thinking that the Necro's hideout must be near the city Katia was in (Anvil?) and she and Asotil will run into Gro-Upp in his way out of the ruins. I am an idiot, she WAS in Anvil.
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Sep 6, 2011 20:19
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Zereth posted:By which you mean "do 30% less fire damage", right? And given his displayed level of competence, which is much higher than a mudcrab, I don't think she can cast enough lovely fire spells even without the ring. It said he couldn't even equip the ring since his fingers were too big. The necromancer story arc sucked because I felt like it was pointless. Okay, we get a new likable character oh but he's dead and the magic item the invincible orc got from him doesn't even fit so from the main story perspective nothing changed. quote:There were a lot of things the arc did accomplish, even if they aren't apparent yet. Whether the readers are aware or not, important information has been conveyed and Chekhov has loaded many guns for the "players" to potentially fire. Some are apparent, some aren't, but (ideally) in the end it will all come together and make sense. This was a terrible way to deliver exposition. It was manipulative and too drawn out.
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Sep 6, 2011 22:57
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clockworkjoe posted:It said he couldn't even equip the ring since his fingers were too big. No, he jammed it on. His finger's just so beefy and fat that now he won't be able to take it off.
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Sep 6, 2011 23:01
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idonotlikepeas posted:Don't grieve for Dmitri. The hero of Oblivion would have killed him eventually. Gro-Upp IS the hero of Oblivion. He's a genre-savvy sociopath who has nearly everyhing conveniently worked out for him in advance and a built-in reason for being tossed into prison in the near future. It is little wonder that Katia is powerless to inconvenience him, let alone stop him.
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Sep 6, 2011 23:11
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Thundarr posted:Gro-Upp IS the hero of Oblivion. He's a genre-savvy sociopath who has nearly everyhing conveniently worked out for him in advance and a built-in reason for being tossed into prison in the near future. It is little wonder that Katia is powerless to inconvenience him, let alone stop him. No. Katia is the hero of Oblivion, that's been made fairly clear by her dreams of Emperor Uriel and the amulet. Gro-Upp is just a parody of a player character's typical behavioral patterns.
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Sep 6, 2011 23:15
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Captain Oblivious posted:No. Katia is the hero of Oblivion, that's been made fairly clear by her dreams of Emperor Uriel and the amulet. Seems unlikely, unless he's going to write a mindwipe for every character who has met her but doesn't know her from Adam in the game.
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Sep 7, 2011 02:29
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ShineDog posted:Seems unlikely, unless he's going to write a mindwipe for every character who has met her but doesn't know her from Adam in the game. Katia will have to change her identity again, and no one recognizes her because they think all khajiits look alike.
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Sep 7, 2011 02:33
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Captain Oblivious posted:No. Katia is the hero of Oblivion, that's been made fairly clear by her dreams of Emperor Uriel and the amulet. Surely no one else can possibly have dreams of the emperor and the amulet. Good thinking, Lou.
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Sep 7, 2011 13:20
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While I still enjoy Prequel, it seems like kind of a bitch move to introduce a likeable character to the audience, give him a bit of backstory like he's going to be around a while, only to kill him off a couple of pages later. Who will feed his kittens. 
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Sep 7, 2011 13:46
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He's a necromancer though. Which means SHENANNIGANS to do with death.
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Sep 7, 2011 14:32
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SynthOrange posted:He's a necromancer though. Seriously. He's not dead, he's just going to get necromanced back to life.
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Sep 7, 2011 15:06
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Volmarias posted:Surely no one else can possibly have dreams of the emperor and the amulet. Good thinking, Lou. If you wouldn't classify these dreams, their consistency, and their content as unusual I don't know what to tell you! And the name of the comic. Volmarias posted:Seriously. He's not dead, he's just going to get necromanced back to life. Elder Scrolls necromancy does not work that way so probably not. Sadly.
Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Sep 7, 2011 |
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Sep 7, 2011 15:12
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Captain Oblivious posted:Elder Scrolls necromancy does not work that way so probably not. Sadly.
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Sep 7, 2011 15:22
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Captain Oblivious posted:Elder Scrolls necromancy does not work that way so probably not. Sadly. Magic doesn't work by making epic cat burns either. I'm expecting artistic license.
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Sep 7, 2011 20:06
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If Dmitri gets necromance'd back to life, he'll just wind up a zombie like Mr. Scruffles.
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Sep 7, 2011 23:34
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Leaping Mutton posted:I'm thinking that the Necro's hideout must be near the city Katia was in (Anvil?) and she and Asotil will run into Gro-Upp in his way out of the ruins. http://www.uesp.net/maps/obmap/obmap.shtml?centeron=Garlas+Agea Yeah, it's right on the way to Kvatch 
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Sep 8, 2011 00:31
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A good poster posted:If Dmitri gets necromance'd back to life, he'll just wind up a zombie like Mr. Scruffles. Then Katia will have a drunken fling with Zombie Dmitri and it'll be double awkward.
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Sep 8, 2011 00:33
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Volmarias posted:Magic doesn't work by making epic cat burns either. I'm expecting artistic license. That's an issue of motivation to do magic, not the actual source of the magic. Katia's magic is wholly standard and within the realms of normal Elder Scrolls bullshit. So don't hold your breath on the Dmitri thing.
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Sep 8, 2011 02:42
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Kind of hoping Kazerad just rolls with the misery train and never lets a positive upturn not go overturned at some point. End with an unavoidable bad end where Katia joins that cult and gets killed by the Oblivion PC in the start of Oblivion (that PC being Gro-Upp). Setting up these sympathetic, sad scenarios just to make everything start turning around at some point seems kind of overdone. Prequel is about the misery, and changing that later would be a disappointment.
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Sep 8, 2011 05:23
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Dolash posted:Kind of hoping Kazerad just rolls with the misery train and never lets a positive upturn not go overturned at some point. End with an unavoidable bad end where Katia joins that cult and gets killed by the Oblivion PC in the start of Oblivion (that PC being Gro-Upp). Even if Katia is supposed to be the main character, I'm still playing as Gro-Upp when I get around to playing Oblivion. He will always be the hero in my heart.
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Sep 8, 2011 05:32
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QueerPope posted:I honestly prefer it when MSPA-style stories just use the reader suggestions as jokes and for the most part control the story on their own. I like when the reader suggestions make funny things like "friendship diamond" but I like seeing what the author has in mind more than what the readers want to happen.
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Sep 8, 2011 06:07
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Dolash posted:Kind of hoping Kazerad just rolls with the misery train and never lets a positive upturn not go overturned at some point. End with an unavoidable bad end where Katia joins that cult and gets killed by the Oblivion PC in the start of Oblivion (that PC being Gro-Upp). That would be boring. I realized what my problem was with the necromancer side story. At this point, we expect everything to have an unhappy resolution - that's the main theme of this webcomic - things are bad and no matter how hard you try they will only get worst - the current arc of Katia having hopes about being a mage is only to set her up so they will be dashed later on. That's fine as a theme but a good story must have some kind of unexpected resolution - not necessarily a twist but some kind of change that isn't obvious. This just doesn't apply to the ending but every big story beat. The necromancer story had the most obvious ending possible, which is why it didn't work. It was obvious because bad things happen all the time and Gro-upp always wins. What's the point of reading or writing a story where the obvious resolution almost always occurs?
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Sep 8, 2011 19:10
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clockworkjoe posted:The necromancer story had the most obvious ending possible, which is why it didn't work. It was obvious because bad things happen all the time and Gro-upp always wins. I dunno, things have started turning around for Katia. She was able to go to the fancy dinner without freaking out or causing a scene, she's learned some magic, she's gotten her fire thing under control, and she's made some friends and connections. I was actually starting to wonder where all the tragedy had gone.
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Sep 8, 2011 22:41
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Zenzirouj posted:I dunno, things have started turning around for Katia. She was able to go to the fancy dinner without freaking out or causing a scene, she's learned some magic, she's gotten her fire thing under control, and she's made some friends and connections. I was actually starting to wonder where all the tragedy had gone. It's been saved up for when Gro-upp reappears
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Sep 8, 2011 23:01
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Update! I am positive that this is a sign that things are looking up for Katia, and nothing will go wrong for her ever again.
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Sep 9, 2011 06:28
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Hell, I'd celebrate someone killing Cliff Racers too.
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Sep 9, 2011 06:52
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