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Gammatron 64 posted:X8 isn't as good as any of the first five X games, including X3 and X5, but it's surely only about a million billion times better than X6 and X7. I think people like the game simply because it isn't god awful. It's not really that good, either. It's just somewhat mediocre. I actually enjoy X8 more than X3 and X5. I thought X5 was just bland as hell up until you get to the interesting portions with the sigma levels at the end of the game. Megaman X8, changes it up to where you can have a variety of different playstyles and they are all viable. Its a good evolution of the franchise and gave us a glimpse of where it needed to go. I don't say this just because X6 and X7 were so awful, I say this because it is a very solid and very fun game that gave the X series a much needed boost. It has gimmicky levels, but the level design in it You really shouldn't try to gauge reasons for why people like something. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Sep 6, 2011 |
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Sep 6, 2011 14:57
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Gammatron 64 posted:X8 isn't as good as any of the first five X games, including X3 and X5, but it's surely only about a million billion times better than X6 and X7. I think people like the game simply because it isn't god awful. It's not really that good, either. It's just somewhat mediocre. Actually, I like X8 because it is a good game. quote:If by post-X8 game you mean Command Mission, I'm not sure if that really counts. He means the Megaman Zero series.
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Sep 6, 2011 15:09
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blackguy32 posted:I actually enjoy X8 more than X3. There I said it. Its a good evolution of the franchise and gave us a glimpse of where it needed to go. I don't say this just because X6 and X7 were so awful, I say this because it is a very solid and very fun game that gave the X series a much needed boost. Nah, that's cool. Nothing to be ashamed about there, X3 isn't the greatest. I think X3 and X5 are better, but neither are all that special. X8 is around that level of quality, imo. I do think the PC\PS1\Anniversary collection version of X3 is a lot better, though. I had it for PC and not the SNES, and I gotta say, I'm glad, because the SNES game's music sounds like some kid's midi file farting out 16-bit guitar noises. Now if you said that X8 was better than X1 or X4 I would be like "What the gently caress is wrong with you?! drat kids these days!"  TaurusOxford posted:He means the Megaman Zero series. I'd be inclined to agree that Zero 1 was the true X6, and so on. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Sep 6, 2011 |
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Sep 6, 2011 15:10
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Gammatron 64 posted:Nah, that's cool. Nothing to be ashamed about there, X3 isn't the greatest. I think X3 and X5 are better, but neither are all that special. X8 is around that level of quality, imo. I think X1 and X4 were good for their time, but I think that X8 was what the franchise needed to get with the times. I think they were looking for something different with X7 but didn't find it til X8. I would love another game just like X8 with more straightforward levels.
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Sep 6, 2011 15:13
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Shindragon posted:I mean yes, Capcom is famous in the MegaMan series for not letting the drat big bad die. Of course with Dr.Wily it was the laws of robotics 101 that pretty much prevent Megaman from killing him at all. Though he did actually snap in MM7 (which was pretty cool).. That's probably my only beef with Capcom. Megaman in 7 actually wanted to kill Wily, yet in MM8 he's back to his usual cheery self.
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Sep 6, 2011 15:14
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blackguy32 posted:I think X1 and X4 were good for their time, but I think that X8 was what the franchise needed to get with the times. I think they were looking for something different with X7 but didn't find it til X8. How do you define "get with the times?" 3D models instead of sprites? Gimmicky stages instead of just straight forward side scrolling stuff? I don't really see how X8 "modernized" Mega Man X. They could have made the game in the 90's if they wanted to. X1 and X4 were better games back then, and they're better games now. 2D sidescrollers have not come a very long way since the 90's. The last game that really kind of revolutionized the genre and left a lasting impression on it was Castlevania: SOTN. This is why a lot of old sidescrollers like Mario, Sonic and Mega Man have aged very well - they just reached the peak of their evolution early and there hasn't been a whole lot afterwards that makes older games seem primitive and lovely. They had pretty much perfected the genre by then. On the same token, a lot of early 3D games feel lovely and clunky compared to what we have today, because they just hadn't mastered it yet. Take the old school Resident Evil, for instance.
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Sep 6, 2011 15:32
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Gammatron 64 posted:How do you define "get with the times?" 3D models instead of sprites? Gimmicky stages instead of just straight forward side scrolling stuff? I don't really see how X8 "modernized" Mega Man X. They could have made the game in the 90's if they wanted to. X1 and X4 were better games back then, and they're better games now. Im talking about having the game do more than all the other Megaman X games. There are now three characters with 3 different playstyles, if you pick X he has a couple of armor options that you can mix and match, there are 3 navigators that have different specialties, you can now use 2 people on a mission instead of picking one and going through the stage with them. You can now actually break through people's guard using different methods. It may not be much but its better than the trite stuff we were getting in the past. I understand that people love X1 and all that, but if I wanted to play a game like X1, I would play X1 or Maverick Hunter X. We have had several games in that style, but X8 actually tried something different and not all of it works, but what did work, I hope stays.
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Sep 6, 2011 15:58
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You hope stays in what? X8? Please remember the circumstances that led to this discussion in the first place. ...  At least put MM5 on PAL VC, Capcom.
quakster fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 6, 2011 |
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Sep 6, 2011 16:01
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quakster posted:You hope stays in what? X8? Please remember the circumstances that led to this discussion in the first place. I hope that the good changes that they made to the formula in X8 stay.
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Sep 6, 2011 16:10
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blackguy32 posted:Im talking about having the game do more than all the other Megaman X games. There are now three characters with 3 different playstyles, if you pick X he has a couple of armor options that you can mix and match, there are 3 navigators that have different specialties, you can now use 2 people on a mission instead of picking one and going through the stage with them. You can now actually break through people's guard using different methods. Navigators are dumb and we never needed them in the first place, if anything that's a feature they should have removed entirely, but at least the game gave me the option to turn them off, unlike X5. They're unnecessary, slow the game down, and I don't need Navi from Zelda holding my hand when I'm playing Mega Man. I wanna blow up robots, not listen to some bitch tell me how to play. I also think being able to break enemies guards is also a dumb mechanic that removes a lot of challenge. Just because it's a new mechanic doesn't mean it's a good idea. Hello, Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Having different characters with multiple playstyles wasn't introduced in X8. X4 did that first. Also, switching between characters during the level is nothing new, either. X3 did it first, and yeah, it didn't do it so well, Xtreme 2 also did it. Now keep in mind, the Mega Man Xtreme games were pretty poo poo and the only reason you'd play them is because you can't lug around a TV and SNES, but just lettin' you know that X8 didn't invent it and pretty much took it from Xtreme 2. I mean, I like being able to switch between X and Zero and mixing and matching armor parts is a good idea, but I would have enjoyed these things a whole lot better if I were going through more actual stages and not riding around on a snowmobile. Takoluka posted:I think what he's trying to say is that the changes in the formula will stay in X8, because any future X games are stuck in the limbo of speculation and "probably-not-gonna-happen," which is depressing to think about. Not really, they should have stopped at X5. Takoluka posted:Hey, with navigators, I can have two Zeros in the form of a Zero-Layer team. That's reason enough to keep them around. Why have Zero and Zero with tits when you could just have Zero? Okay, never mind, I think that question just answered itself. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Sep 6, 2011 |
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Sep 6, 2011 16:33
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blackguy32 posted:I hope that the good changes that they made to the formula in X8 stay.  Gammatron 64 posted:Navigators are dumb and we never needed them in the first place, if anything that's a feature they should have removed entirely, but at least the game gave me the option to turn them off, unlike X5.
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Sep 6, 2011 16:35
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Gammatron 64 posted:Navigators are dumb and we never needed them in the first place, if anything that's a feature they should have removed entirely, but at least the game gave me the option to turn them off, unlike X5. They're unnecessary, slow the game down, and I don't need Navi from Zelda holding my hand when I'm playing Mega Man. I wanna blow up robots, not listen to some bitch tell me how to play. I also think being able to break enemies guards is also a dumb mechanic that removes a lot of challenge. Just because it's a new mechanic doesn't mean it's a good idea. Hello, Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Navigators are pretty unintrusive in X8. You have to press select to even hear what they have to say and even still you have complete control while they are saying it. Also, with X4, you picked one and stuck with them throughout the whole game, you didn't really pick one for the situation. I know X8 didn't invent it, it was in X7 also. As for the level design, I think it leaves much to be desired, but I absolutely love the play mechanics of the game and definitely do not want to go back to the way it was in X1-X4. Been there, done that. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Sep 6, 2011 |
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Sep 6, 2011 16:44
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Takoluka posted:I think what he's trying to say is that the changes in the formula will stay in X8, because any future X games are stuck in the limbo of speculation and "probably-not-gonna-happen," which is depressing to think about. I'd buy X9 but it will never be.
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Sep 6, 2011 16:46
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Gammatron 64 posted:How do you define "get with the times?" 3D models instead of sprites? Gimmicky stages instead of just straight forward side scrolling stuff? I don't really see how X8 "modernized" Mega Man X. They could have made the game in the 90's if they wanted to. X1 and X4 were better games back then, and they're better games now. There's no reason why this couldn't have been done at any point with Mega Man. As it stands, we're STILL at a point where we have eight robot bosses with glaring weaknesses and a big boss battle at the end against something beginning with W. ZX did a lot to try and shake up stuff, and I respect it deeply for it, but it was done so clumsily, it needs even more work, even more innovation, and, most of all, it shouldn't try to do something that has worked for another series with a completely different setup, what, 10 years ago? Longer? The games are so INSANELY behind their times, think about it for a moment. They always were. MM6 was one of the last NES games, X wasn't particularily early on the SNES, X4 jumped on the PlayStation for...just about ONLY graphics and sound reasons, this whole stagnation, laziness for decades always meant that the big leap, the thing to revolutionize the series, never happened. Though we were getting there in recent times; Zero did such great things to the formula, abolishing weapon energy, giving you lots of replay value with the mission and cyber elf system, and ZX also tried lots of new stuff. It's still no BIG bang, but as said, I can well appreciate it. Thing is, it's still way late for that, and the series is losing in interest fast because it took so long. Again, I think the best thing that could happen is a completely new Mega Man game on a big console. It doesn't need to be in 3D, because, as said, you CAN still do stuff with 2D platformers. SotN proved that a long time ago, and I can think of a ton of ways how a 2D game can still be modern and do things that we have not seen countless times before. While staying Mega Man at heart. For example, who says that all we need is 8 robot master stages, maybe 2 or 3 intermediates and then 4 fortress stages? Even the NES games had more levels than Zero 1, that's pretty pathetic, actually. Don't tell me there wasn't enough space on the GBA cart if whole RPGs fit on it. Give us more stages, more paths to choose from, more than eight bosses! Hiding stuff everywhere is great, make it so that you need special weapons far more than you did by now to find poo poo. Make it so that you can combine special weapons, like a missile you can ride on and a high-jump uppercut to get goodies after a long pit. Have Mega be completely customizable, the armors were getting there, but that's still primitive. Countless games add RPG elements, X8 also tried that, but so clumsily, do it right and it can be glorious. It's not like we're forever stuck with 8 bosses and then a few final stages, with a fixed set of special weapons and maybe a few hidden goodies somewhere. If they were willing to break out of the mold, they could make a really loving good modern 2D platformer, they already have all the building stones. It's probably never gonna happen because Capcom's higher-ups are apparently morons and Inafune is gone, too, but who cares. Rambling here doesn't cost me.
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Sep 6, 2011 18:19
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Well, there's always the doujin community. With things like Rosenkreuzstilette out there, I'm sure some group could come up with a Mega Man-style game that encompasses everything we all want (and, of course, a few things we don't). I have hope for Corrupted.
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Sep 6, 2011 18:51
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Gammatron 64 posted:Zero with tits I read this and initially thought you were referring to his green chest orbs.
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Sep 6, 2011 22:39
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I'm still waiting on someone to make a homebrew with all the classic series levels and bosses and weapons available in one thing. I'm imagining a giant stage select screen, and using metal blades on everyone. Mega Man 7 already had a PC fanmade "downport" to NES, and 8 either has one too or in progress, so it's pretty possible I think. 80~ stages to attack in any order you want,. The weapon weaknesses would take forever to figure out, hahaha.
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Sep 7, 2011 00:11
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I've never played past the first, but I've been plinking away at Zero 1 with the intention of playing through all four, but I'm not particularly good. Are the next games in the series gonna be just as difficult?
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Sep 7, 2011 00:17
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Megaman Zero 2 is pretty hard, but 3 and 4 are a bit more forgiving in the difficulty. ZX and ZX Advent doesn't have the same reputation as Megaman Zero.
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Sep 7, 2011 00:29
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Zero 1 has a few very bullshit stages and a few really easy ones, same with bosses. Zero 2 is generally better-rounded, but probably harder on average. 3 is easier than 2 and 4 is the easiest. Though that might not be true for everybody. I find it very rewarding to get good at those games, though; the first time you no-hit kill a boss you feel like a God. Or 100 point a stage. Thing is, you can always make it easier on yourself by grinding out Elves like a motherfucker (and from Zero 2 on, the costs are actually REASONABLE)...but that snaps the difficulty in half. Especially in Zero 3 which also has different parts; I struggled lots through the initial four stages when I first played it, then got a few Elves, found the quick-charge and the double jump (oh YES the double jump) and suddenly I was blazing through without ANY problems, it was crazy. Doing it the hard way requires a lot of pain to learn it, to grasp boss patterns and plan ahead, and you'll have to build up reflexes and whatnot. But it's very much worth it, I'd say. Because those games may be hard, but they're also for the most part completely fair, something that other hard Mega Man games completely lack. Glaring example: X6, but also MM2.
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Sep 7, 2011 00:37
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MMX6... gently caress High Max. Argh, he is probably the most BORING and tedious boss to fight in that game. Also, Metal Shark Player's level? Good lord that is probably the longest X stage in history of regular boss stage. And it has nothing to do with the length at all. It's the constant repetition of having to stop in order not to get crushed..Gah. I was one of those who bought MMX games without looking at reviews. You would think playing 4 out 5 of the X series would do me well (X5..eh...not bad, just not as good as the others) I learned my lesson with x6. That was just a bad game. Period.
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Sep 7, 2011 01:12
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Indeedy. X6 is probably the worst "standard" side-scrolling Mega Man. Objectively. I still hate playing X5 more, but that's personal, I would never say that X6 is a better game. However, I have a strange attraction to it. Feels good to bullshit a bullshit game right back, and it lets you do that. It demands to be broken. Then I turn it around and do Gate 2 unarmored because gently caress you I can do it. Again, that godlike feeling when you DO make it. After 200 tries because drat is that stage hard (but maybe the fairest in terms of difficulty that X6 gets).
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Sep 7, 2011 01:19
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That is probably the only redeemable part of the game. Zero is.. just.. OP. My god once you learn to use Zero's SDC, he murders everything in his path. No invinicble frames for a boss when zero does his two slashes? Oh ho ho, the bosses are in for a brutal beating.
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Sep 7, 2011 01:34
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The best way to play MMZero is to force yourself to S-rank everything. Feels awesome whenever you pull it off.
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Sep 7, 2011 01:40
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Pureauthor posted:The best way to play MMZero is to force yourself to S-rank everything. Feels awesome whenever you pull it off. Then do it in hard mode. (I actually have no idea on how to S-Rank the second intermediate stage in Zero 2, you know the one)
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Sep 7, 2011 01:43
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Simply Simon posted:Listen to this man. Is the one with Kuwangust as the boss?
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Sep 7, 2011 01:48
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Pureauthor posted:Is the one with Kuwangust as the boss?
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Sep 7, 2011 02:02
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I feel bad every time people talk about how ZX and ZX-A aren't so difficult because I've had the games acouple years each at least and I've only ever finished the first bosses of each 
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Sep 7, 2011 02:13
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Yonic Symbolism posted:I feel bad every time people talk about how ZX and ZX-A aren't so difficult because I've had the games acouple years each at least and I've only ever finished the first bosses of each I remember getting pretty far in ZX before the map became more than I wanted to deal with in a goddamned Mega Man game, but ZX-A has at least one boss early on that made me say "gently caress it" and shelve the game pretty much indefinitely. Maybe I'll go back when I work down my backlog of DS RPGs. Maybe.
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Sep 7, 2011 02:20
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Do you have trouble even on easy mode? If you can beat X1 then you really shouldn't have trouble with either ZX.
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Sep 7, 2011 03:11
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Schwarzwald posted:Do you have trouble even on easy mode? Never tried easy mode, but I have the Mega Man zero collection just so I can try it on easy mode - used to have Zero 4, the one everyone said was the easiest, and struggled with it. But I beat Mega Man X easily as a kid and I'm going to try to beat it again at some point.
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Sep 7, 2011 03:19
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Koops posted:I read this and initially thought you were referring to his green chest orbs. booblights.
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Sep 7, 2011 04:08
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Simply Simon posted:I kind of agree with you, here, although there's something I kind of need to clarify. I didn't quite say Mega Man reached it's peak, perhaps it has, but I was more talking about 2D sidescrollers as a genre. And when I say 2D sidescrollers have reached their peak, I don't mean peak in quality - I mean evolutionary peak. Like I said, Castlevania SOTN was the last real revolutionary game for the genre. There has been tons and tons of great sidescrollers since then, but the genre hasn't really evolved. You can even argue that some of the DS Castlevanias are better then SOTN - even if that's true, it doesn't matter because they still use the formula SOTN created. This has nothing to do with games being "better back then", in fact, if anything, 2D sidescrollers made today in general as about as good as they were back in the 90's... because they reached an early evolutionary endpoint. Compare old sidescrollers to new ones. Like Super Metroid and Shadow Complex. Shadow Complex came out around 15 years later but they're still fairly similar. Now compare say, Wolfenstien 3D to Black Ops. Or say, Golf on the NES to Tiger Woods 2010. Capcom can take things and make them better - i.e. the Zero games played like X1-X4 but a little better, but the only times they did a major reinventions were Legends and Battle Network. I loved Legends but we all know how that wound up. I hate Battle Network with a passion and that sold like hotcakes. My tastes are rarely mainstream, I guess. For years, I've wanted a Mega Man game that just feels like a huge, epic adventure instead of being constrained to 8 bosses and a fortress. Not necessarily a Metroid-vania type game, but maybe something with a world map and branching paths. I'd also be interested to see another shot at a 3D Mega Man, as well. I'd want the next Mega Man game to feel like it's a big deal and not just another game they've put out. Now granted, if they just put out another game fitting the Classic, X or Legends mold I'd probably love it and still buy it.
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Sep 7, 2011 04:12
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Gammatron 64 posted:Mega Man needs a new direction. I think Capcom could make approximately a million squillion megabucks if they made a 3D action game, similar in spirit to Shadow of the Colossus and similar titles, where the entire experience was a string of challenging fights against robot masters with detailed movement and combat controls. No exploration necessary, and they wouldn't even have to be new bosses. Just let people beat their faces against one stupidly detailed boss combat after another.
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Sep 7, 2011 06:52
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Chachi posted:I think Capcom could make approximately a million squillion megabucks if they made a 3D action game, similar in spirit to Shadow of the Colossus and similar titles, where the entire experience was a string of challenging fights against robot masters with detailed movement and combat controls. No exploration necessary, and they wouldn't even have to be new bosses. Just let people beat their faces against one stupidly detailed boss combat after another. But it would have to be done extremely well. I know it sounds really obvious, but that's really the only thing Capcom would have to worry about. Otherwise people are just going to say it's the worst thing, just like Castlevania fans said Lords of Shadow doesn't exist. I always thought they could remake the first Zero game in this fashion. It's the beginning of a new series, so they could change it up a bit, and the game has a mix of huge monsters and normal sized villains.
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Sep 7, 2011 07:25
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I wouldn't mind seeing Capcom try to make a 2d/3d hybrid game again. X7 was pretty bad for a Megaman game, but it had potential. If we could get good Megaman/X gameplay combined with MML gameplay, we'd have one helluva fun game on our hands. Especially if Inti is allowed nowhere near it, because those people are creepy.
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Sep 7, 2011 07:51
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Fargin Icehole posted:But it would have to be done extremely well. I know it sounds really obvious, but that's really the only thing Capcom would have to worry about. Otherwise people are just going to say it's the worst thing, just like Castlevania fans said Lords of Shadow doesn't exist. Aside from the miserable story and silly puzzles I quite enjoyed Lords of Shadow's gameplay. Why doesn't anyone love the buzzsaw action Screaming Idiot posted:Especially if Inti is allowed nowhere near it, because those people are creepy. What's the problem with Inti? I'm not being defensive or anything, I just don't have any idea as you what you might be talking about.
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Sep 7, 2011 08:05
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Chachi posted:What's the problem with Inti? I'm not being defensive or anything, I just don't have any idea as you what you might be talking about. Most everyone in MMZ looks either like a young child in thong armor or an abstract animal robot. They also made more lolicon games than I'm comfortable with associating a company that makes the majority of the more recent Megaman games with. Also, way too many spike pits in lieu of interesting stage design. But it's mostly the subtle pedophilia.
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Sep 7, 2011 08:13
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Schwarzwald posted:Do you have trouble even on easy mode? The rear end in a top hat boss of the "Our airship is under attack" thing in ZX is harder than anything in X1. That stage took forever with all the continues putting you back at a fairly tedious invasion bit before you even get the honor of dying to the boss.
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Sep 7, 2011 09:22
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I was one of those kids who had trouble with the Spider boss for like a month or so, the longest time I never really got why people said X1 was easy. Screaming Idiot posted:Also, way too many spike pits in lieu of interesting stage design. But it's mostly the subtle pedophilia. I really liked the stage art because it reminded me of side scrolling Apogee games, but I definitely agree with you on the character art. It's like they do a positive thing, like remove Zero's orb lights, and then they add the creepy wierd looking children robots on everything.
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Sep 7, 2011 09:40
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