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Above Our Own posted:
More like getting a maple syrup enema.
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Sep 8, 2011 17:05
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I've no clue why I like these books. They seem well written but some parts make Kvothe the most  sonofabitch I've ever seen in actual print.I think it is the framing story. I'd much rather read a book about the framing story's continuation and Kote trying to become Kvothe again. Maybe he'll relent and do it once he realizes it is the only way to keep the money train on the tracks.
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Sep 8, 2011 19:22
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Yeah, after these two books I'm pretty bored of Kvothe's past but still very interested in the present. I hate to get snobby, but I don't think it's too radical a stretch to say that a decent author could have just started us off in the framing story, stayed there as Kote tried to become Kvothe again and gave us the backstory as and when the narrative demanded it. Frankly short of multiple ludicrous contrivances I can't see the story ending with anything even related to a satisfying conclusion. We're going to be left with "And Kote finished his story and sat in the three kinds of silence because heroes are actually usually real people that are flawed the end".
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Sep 8, 2011 19:27
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I chalk it up to his actual writing, in the most literal sense. I feel like he beats out Lynch, GRRM, Tolkien, and the rest when it comes to actually putting words together into sentences. His work is deeply readable and easy to follow from page to page. It's when you step back that you realize, hey, this narrative sucks! Or hey, these characters are pretty lame!
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Sep 8, 2011 19:29
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Well, I'm sure he could have written it as a story of the framing story with flashbacks but his whole purpose was to write the memoirs of a guy who everyone thinks is amazing and did amazing things but actually has cripplingly low self-esteem and considers himself an absolute failure. They're two totally different stories. Not that I disagree that the framing story stuff is more interesting to me overall or that it might not have been a more interesting story, but I don't think it has anything to do with his authorial skills. But obviously the ending is that he's going to end up opening the box and his name and power will be inside and then it will take us out, end-of-Angel style, with him going out to kick some rear end. Either that or Denna will be sitting inside of it, as the piece of the moon that was left behind when Jax failed to trap its whole name, and letting her free along with the part that Kvothe let out in the flashback story will completely merge Fae and the human world and everyone will die. But whatever's in there, it's going to end with him opening up that box.
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Sep 8, 2011 19:34
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There's no way he wraps everything up in just one more book. He hosed up the pacing of WMF too much to pull that off.
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Sep 8, 2011 19:57
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WeWereSchizo posted:There's no way he wraps everything up in just one more book. He hosed up the pacing of WMF too much to pull that off. If WMF got all of the wandering kvothe out of the way then I can see it being wrapped up. I'm not gonna buy the third if a fourth one is announced - I'm done with trilogies that spiral. If each book had a proper, traditional story I'd keep buying it. Say something like the Lies of Locke Lamora - each novel has a set story with a beginning, middle and end. But the Kingkiller books aren't like that, and I was sold on this being a trilogy.
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Sep 9, 2011 12:14
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Habibi posted:More like getting a maple syrup enema. You've been reading the Felurian chapters too much.
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Sep 9, 2011 14:37
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Cheradenine posted:You've been reading the Felurian chapters too much.
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Sep 9, 2011 14:38
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I keep reading this thread and everyone makes good points. And I can't describe it, but I do like both books very much despite the flaws. I read both books in about 2 weeks and it took me over a month and a half to read a Game of Thrones. It was unbearable. Rothfuss is goony, but readable.
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Sep 9, 2011 22:54
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I just need to say I hate the Adem. I hate them with a passion. For all the "I'm so awesome" Kvothe does it pales in comparison to the high and mighty we're the best gently caress you all that the Adem do. gently caress them. They were the worst part of that book and why did he write them?
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Sep 9, 2011 22:57
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oneof27 posted:I read both books in about 2 weeks and it took me over a month and a half to read a Game of Thrones. It was unbearable. Rothfuss is goony, but readable. I also read them really quickly, but I burn through Song of Ice and Fire because the plot and characters are so loving good, and I don't think the writing's bad. GRRM doesn't always have the easy readability that Rothfuss does, but his books are on another level than Rothfuss's.
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Sep 9, 2011 23:51
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Cheradenine posted:You've been reading the Felurian chapters too much. Yeah but you get that from reading the book once.
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Sep 10, 2011 02:47
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You know, there are a lot of threads on TBB that make me glad I take off my critic hat when reading fantasy fiction... up to a point, at least (Oathpact, Sanderson? Really?).Piell posted:Over here is Dumb Ninja land, then over on this spot is a random town where he fights some fake gypsies, and way over somewhere else is the magic school, and then there's a town far away where he fights a dragon, and then there's a city he hangs out in a while somewhere else, and there isn't really a relation between any of these places. Wow, does it even matter? Seriously, I don't want a discourse on the geography between point A and point B, I want to know what happens when he's at point A, what happens at point B, and only what happens in between if it's something out of the ordinary. He does give general directions - we know Levinshir (where the rapist troupers were) was in the north of Vintas, as he was travelling from Ademe to Vintas when he passed through. Someone mentioned the road from the University doesn't go anywhere, but you're incorrect - it goes from the coastal city of Tarbean through Imre/The University, then northeast to Anilin. If you're talking about the Great Stone Road, I'm pretty sure that structure predates the current civilization (as in, it goes back to the day of Lanre and Myr), so there's no particular reason it should have any correlation with modern cities. Even so, it still passes through or close by three major cities: Imre (The Commonwealth), Anilin (Ceald), and Atur (Aturan Empire). The fact that we can see it end at the Stormwall mountains tells us nothing - maybe it used to continue, but a landslide closed the pass. But the thing is, it doesn't really matter to us until it matters to Kvothe, because the story is by Kvothe and about Kvothe, so what would be the point in him all of a sudden going into a discourse on the history and path of the Great Stone Road? The Lord of the Rings is a different beast entirely, because it's the story of a journey, and the things that happen along the way. The journey IS the story. That's not the structure of these books, and I don't feel that it should be. I actually enjoy the way Rothfuss skims over the boring details, as I don't think it's important to the structure or narrative of the story. Evfedu posted:The magic in book one is what stopped me dead wrt reading book two. "Here is an incredi-low magic alternate venice and here's a sorceror who can literally stop time and control people's minds and is basically a God oh poo poo I've written myself into a corner here gently caress." I know this thread isn't about The Lies of Locke Lamora, but I just wanted to speak to this. I found it pretty ingenious how Lynch dealt with the all-powerful-ness of the bondsmagi - he just made the price of admission incredibly high, and made sure there was only a single point of entry. I mean, he explicitly mentions that no one can really afford to employ a bondsmagi for any significant period of time without going entirely broke. It took one guy 30 years to build up a fortune large enough to pay a bondsmagi for a month, and it's only because that guy would rather have had revenge than his 1.2 Million crowns/royals/whatever that his tactic was viable. Only a man absolutely driven by vengeance would go down that road. Plus, it helps to set up an excellent source of conflict for the sequels, and it showed just how deep the camaraderie of the Gentlemen Bastards went - so deep they were willing to risk the wrath of the most you-do-not-gently caress-with-us group of people on the planet. isochronous fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Sep 26, 2011 |
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Sep 26, 2011 22:05
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isochronous posted:I know this thread isn't about The Lies of Locke Lamora, but I just wanted to speak to this. I found it pretty ingenious how Lynch dealt with the all-powerful-ness of the bondsmagi - he just made the price of admission incredibly high, and made sure there was only a single point of entry. I mean, he explicitly mentions that no one can really afford to employ a bondsmagi for any significant period of time without going entirely broke. It took one guy 30 years to build up a fortune large enough to pay a bondsmagi for a month, and it's only because that guy would rather have had revenge than his 1.2 Million crowns/royals/whatever that his tactic was viable. Only a man absolutely driven by vengeance would go down that road. The problem with this approach is that the Bondsmagi don't really make sense if you think about it too much. Why do they want money at all--couldn't they just take whatever they want directly? And how does this organization enforce such air-tight discipline when any of its members could personally take over any organization they want and live whatever lifestyle appeals to them? A wizard did it, I guess.
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Sep 26, 2011 22:47
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:I also read them really quickly, but I burn through Song of Ice and Fire because the plot and characters are so loving good, and I don't think the writing's bad. GRRM doesn't always have the easy readability that Rothfuss does, but his books are on another level than Rothfuss's. I think part of it is also that Rothfuss' story and characters are, well, pretty simplistic, so his books are easy to read. Not unlike Harry Potter, which doesn't have fantastic writing - don't get me wrong - but is an "easy read" that you can blow through in a matter of hours. Martin's writing is more difficult to wade through, but I think that's at least in large part a result of having much more complex characters/stories/ideas/interactions. isochronous posted:You know, there are a lot of threads on TBB that make me glad I take off my critic hat when reading fantasy fiction...
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Sep 26, 2011 22:48
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greatZebu posted:The problem with this approach is that the Bondsmagi don't really make sense if you think about it too much. Why do they want money at all--couldn't they just take whatever they want directly? And how does this organization enforce such air-tight discipline when any of its members could personally take over any organization they want and live whatever lifestyle appeals to them? A wizard did it, I guess.
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Sep 26, 2011 22:52
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greatZebu posted:The problem with this approach is that the Bondsmagi don't really make sense if you think about it too much. Why do they want money at all--couldn't they just take whatever they want directly? And how does this organization enforce such air-tight discipline when any of its members could personally take over any organization they want and live whatever lifestyle appeals to them? A wizard did it, I guess. As to the first question, what would a bunch of wizards want with taking over the world? That's just really a lot of work for not a lot of payoff, if you think about it. Since you can make 40,000 bucks for one day's work (which seems more like half a mil or more in their universe) why not just build up an invincible reputation, make the value of your services well known, set up some sweet headquarters, and just kick back & study magic 99 days out of 100? The second question was directly addressed. If one mage leaves the guild, all the other mages hunt him down. The guild does not permit competition. isochronous fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 01:48
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isochronous posted:As to the first question, what would a bunch of wizards want with taking over the world? That's just really a lot of work for not a lot of payoff, if you think about it. Since you can make 40,000 bucks for one day's work (which seems more like half a mil or more in their universe) why not just build up an invincible reputation, make the value of your services well known, set up some sweet headquarters, and just kick back & study magic 99 days out of 100? Why would they want to do whatever some shlub with a ship full of cash wants for an entire month? Obviously they could take the ship or anything else they wanted at any time, and no one could stop them. Why would they even want money? I don't see what the motivates every wizard in the world to enforce guild discipline with lethal force, but I guess it's fine to assume that there's some reason we're not told about. Maybe everyone is super afraid of the guild master. But, we're getting pretty far afield.
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Sep 27, 2011 03:09
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Even if you don't think you'll like the story, read these books. I've never read writing like this ever.
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Sep 28, 2011 00:47
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greatZebu posted:Why would they want to do whatever some shlub with a ship full of cash wants for an entire month? Obviously they could take the ship or anything else they wanted at any time, and no one could stop them. Why would they even want money? quote:I don't see what the motivates every wizard in the world to enforce guild discipline with lethal force, but I guess it's fine to assume that there's some reason we're not told about. Maybe everyone is super afraid of the guild master.
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Sep 28, 2011 02:09
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Habibi posted:Yeah why not take it by force, piss off a lot of people, possibly start wars, get governments coming after you, have to go through a lot of work to defend/protect yourself, find the next ship better-defended, etc...? And that's before the internal power struggles begin in earnest... I don't know why THIS is the big issue. Alternatively, and as isochronous tried to explain, they can charge a boatload of money and relax in relative ease while devoting themselves to learning more about magic instead of, eg, trying to defend themselves from King Soandso whose ship(s)/villages they plundered. The bondsmagi as described in the book have no reason to be worried about the retribution of governments or individuals. They could very plausibly demand tribute from any government they like in exchange for the service of not utterly destroying the nation and all its citizens. Habibi posted:Or maybe it's to the wizards' benefit to keep their colleagues in line? What motivates any association (medical, legal, business) enforce their code of conduct? Is this Thinking 101? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel#Long-term_unsustainability_of_cartels
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Sep 28, 2011 05:12
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greatZebu posted:The bondsmagi as described in the book have no reason to be worried about the retribution of governments or individuals. They could very plausibly demand tribute from any government they like in exchange for the service of not utterly destroying the nation and all its citizens. And this "cartel" then applies to every single (barring maybe one) listed factor that contributes to cartel longevity (easy to monitor, one 'firm,' homogeneous product (magic), production costs, demand). I get what you're trying to say, I just don't think it applies.
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Sep 28, 2011 07:15
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Habibi posted:Yeah they have no reason to worry because of how powerful they are, but if they start taking more aggressive their lives get busier. If they actually wanted dominion, your logic would make sense. But I liken them to scientists - would they really want to rule the world / be giant assholes if they could make tons of money for relatively little work and spend the rest of their time fiddling around with beakers. But like you mentioned their interests seem to be more on developing their own arcana than actually getting involved in the local governments. They fit the aloof and inscrutable mage archetype very well.
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Sep 28, 2011 14:31
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The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn >
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Sep 28, 2011 23:47
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Benson Cunningham posted:The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Patrick Rothfuss Lies Schmuck.
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Sep 28, 2011 23:53
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WeWereSchizo posted:"The trilogy was done years ago. Just editing now. Really." Is that what his line is?
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Sep 29, 2011 00:07
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With all of the Gentleman Bastard talk, maybe we should re-title this the "Goony Wisconsin Fantasy Author Thread." Anyway, here's Lynch's Bondsmagi explanation from his FAQ:Scott Lynch posted:If the Bondsmagi are so all-powerful, why don't they rule the world?
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Sep 29, 2011 03:34
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Habibi posted:Is that what his line is? Used to be, I think he's more or less publically went out and said that what he'd written before needs to be gutted and redone.
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Sep 29, 2011 03:48
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neongrey posted:Used to be, I think he's more or less publically went out and said that what he'd written before needs to be gutted and redone. His old line was that the trilogy was entirely written before he ever published his first book. In fact, "The Road to Levenshire" which netted him the 1st place in Writers of the Future, was taken directly from the second book several years before the first book came out. But I think the quality of the novels at that point were not entirely up to standard. Like any author who had the chance, he chose to edit and do rewrites.
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Sep 29, 2011 05:03
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BananaNutkins posted:His old line was that the trilogy was entirely written before he ever published his first book. In fact, "The Road to Levenshire" which netted him the 1st place in Writers of the Future, was taken directly from the second book several years before the first book came out. But I think the quality of the novels at that point were not entirely up to standard. Like any author who had the chance, he chose to edit and do rewrites.
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Sep 29, 2011 05:34
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WeWereSchizo posted:He should've tried actually editing instead of just adding. What's sad is that I am willing to bet that the stuff he added to book two was all the sex. He responded to critique that the first book was sexless. Take out the sex and that's about 40,000 words of padding, which strangely corresponds to a few of his blog posts pre-release where he talked about how much new material he was adding. By the way, the Road to Levenshire seemed like it was a cool short story, but in the novel I thought it was a little out of character, or maybe that the writing was just a little...off from the rest of the book. Maybe its because I read it before, but that entire sequence felt stiff.
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Sep 29, 2011 05:38
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Ironically enough, one of the things I enjoyed about Name of the Wind was that it wasn't full of goofy nerd sex scenes like a lot of contemporary fantasy. Oh Rothfuss
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Sep 29, 2011 16:02
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Those of you that aren't happy with the way Denna or the sex stuff was handled would probably get a kick out of this (really funny imo) video of the Penny Arcade guys talking about the book, where they mainly discuss about how ridiculous the story is and bring up some good points about how self-aware Rothfuss probably is. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/wise-man-4th-panel
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Sep 29, 2011 17:13
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FAT BATMAN posted:Those of you that aren't happy with the way Denna or the sex stuff was handled would probably get a kick out of this (really funny imo) video of the Penny Arcade guys talking about the book, where they mainly discuss about how ridiculous the story is and bring up some good points about how self-aware Rothfuss probably is. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/wise-man-4th-panel
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Sep 29, 2011 18:55
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He's not self aware, he gets way too excited and invests way too much of his life for this to be a trolling attempt. His work isn't really horrible either, just off in parts so it'd be a whole lot of effort to make a stupid half-assed troll. Any claims of awareness on his part is probably just puppetmaster bullshit.
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Sep 29, 2011 19:26
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I don't think Rothfuss is self aware so much as he's just open to criticism. Unlike a lot of fantasy authors, he doesn't view his work as sacrosanct and can admit when something is a tad on the ridiculous side.
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Sep 29, 2011 19:57
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I think he's probably aware enough to understand the irony / ludicrousness of Kvothe being charged by a sexual goddess to go out and bang a bunch of women to prove her superiority, but I think he also finds that irony a cool part of the story or myth of Kvothe rather than simply weird and unnecessary.
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Sep 29, 2011 19:58
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Ornamented Death posted:I don't think Rothfuss is self aware so much as he's just open to criticism. Unlike a lot of fantasy authors, he doesn't view his work as sacrosanct and can admit when something is a tad on the ridiculous side. Patrick Rothfuss posted:I don't know much about it. I don't spend a lot of time trolling around, looking for online discussions of my work.
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Sep 29, 2011 20:06
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Ornamented Death posted:I don't think Rothfuss is self aware so much as he's just open to criticism. Unlike a lot of fantasy authors, he doesn't view his work as sacrosanct and can admit when something is a tad on the ridiculous side. I dunno - some of his responses to reader questions / critiques posted earlier in this thread make me doubt this.
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Sep 29, 2011 20:13
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