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Xguard86 posted:totally. just show up. Don't think about anything else, just be there, and do what you can do that day. There are 9/10 days and 1/10 days, but anything is better than a 0/10 day. Thus spoke Zarathustra. Expect this once he is for real: of all the roughly 300 times I've felt like NOT taking the train to the beat-me-up-basement with my gloves, mouthpiece and exchange clothes, afterwards I've felt sorry I did - a whole 0/300 times. Last week I had 8/10 days machinegunned and felt really good, this week I've had 2/10 days but every single time I've been as happy as a sandboy after, enjoying at least a runners high by the time I get home and at least until the next workout. edit: Actually me, Ligur, which means drunken sailor leotard kicks posted:UN-TEACHING Replies noted. Why I brought it up was spare-instructing for a class for one time during the week, of students who had taken Formé of some sort (that means no-contact) before, and observing all their habits, even though I know they've had pretty decent teachers at least in my opinion. Now, they are taking the basic course on the contact side of things. I was rather shaken by the fact many of the sort of decent technical strikes - that is, as long as you perform a single (or even more) kicks or punches on an unmoving target - completely lose it when moving, scrambling the distance at once, and drop their defense all day. I think a very good pedagogic method to teach someone to keep their hands up or stand behind their leg is to have someone clock you in the face if you do not, or rather even when you do, but I don't feel comfortable going into that direction at once. Also movement: practitioners who can and will put decent kicks from their position (in the fitness version) do very well as long as the target was either #1 a bag or a #2 focus mitt, however when something was moving it all falls to pieces. The distance is in shambles, the defense, gone. When moving, people with better form then I do lose balance when they execute a technique. Now this is all and good - absolutely nothing out of the regular, but if they've been doing everything like that for months or years how do you disassemble the habits of disregarding distance and defense and still keep the (semi-)good form. I'm afraid it will take some contact to sort that out.. I'm not complaining, these are the fun little challenges you enjoy thinking and talking about! Ligur fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Sep 8, 2011 |
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Sep 8, 2011 21:16
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thanks for the words of support. The good days when everything clicks and you feel like a god are the easy ones.. I figure the way a person reacts to the worst, most demoralizing days is what really defines him/her. I probably needed this too, as an ego check. I really do hear a lot about how fast I've advanced, and it's quite obvious that I've passed up several guys that have been training longer, and I suspect it's gone to my head a bit. I think I'm subconsciously putting pressure on myself to do well, instead of just playing and having fun and not worrying about results, which is when I naturally do best. Gotta remember I'm still just a white belt so no matter how advanced people tell me I am, I am still by definition a lovely beginner with a long, long way to go!
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Sep 8, 2011 21:23
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KingColliwog posted:
Stuff like that, static stretches for general problem areas and foam rolling/tennis ball work. Here is a short version the Defranco uses: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/warm-up-your-hips-agile-8-a-631289.html Like anything else in the gym this is a good place for beginners and you can build your own program from there. Also take a look at the mobilityWOD. While I don't agree with everything the guy says there is a lot of good stuff. http://www.mobilitywod.com/
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Sep 8, 2011 22:36
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mewse posted:step 1 talk to him about it Wrong. The answer is to SEVER his jugular's blood supply when you choke him out.
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Sep 8, 2011 22:44
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Lt. Shiny-sides posted:Stuff like that, static stretches for general problem areas and foam rolling/tennis ball work. Great thanks, I already knew of mobility wod but I found it hard to follow since he doesn't really recommend a simple/quick list of stuff you can just do before training to be mostly covered and I don't feel like following his daily thing. Following DeFranco stuff until I want more will be perfect for me, I was really looking for something like that anyway!
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Sep 9, 2011 00:01
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Ligur posted:I think a very good pedagogic method to teach someone to keep their hands up or stand behind their leg is to have someone clock you in the face if you do not, or rather even when you do, but I don't feel comfortable going into that direction at once. Also movement: practitioners who can and will put decent kicks from their position (in the fitness version) do very well as long as the target was either #1 a bag or a #2 focus mitt, however when something was moving it all falls to pieces. The distance is in shambles, the defense, gone. When moving, people with better form then I do lose balance when they execute a technique. Now this is all and good - absolutely nothing out of the regular, but if they've been doing everything like that for months or years how do you disassemble the habits of disregarding distance and defense and still keep the (semi-)good form. I'm afraid it will take some contact to sort that out.. It is effective for, say, someone who has been in a couple of matches or fights and expects to get clocked in the face for messing up their technique, but for beginners, people who are training for fun or fitness or, as in your example, people who are just starting contact stuff, you can just as easily gently tap the side of their head if they drop their guard, or attempt to even if they don't. As for your specific example, you're essentially teaching them a different martial art that happens to have some moves they're familiar with. It might help to think of them as complete beginners and go from there, rather than thinking of them as 'good' because they can perform a technique well without having to think about positioning, defence or movement. e: It should also be noted that gentle contact should be followed by relevant advice as long as you're not repeating yourself. If, for example, their guard is in the wrong place, it can help to mention it as they may think they're doing it right, which leads to frustration when you 'hit' them over and over. Makrond fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Sep 9, 2011 |
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Sep 9, 2011 00:38
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much better class tonight, and with the weather cooling down we had the door open.. a drunken homeless lady came in while the instructor was demoing an arm triangle from mount and she ranted for a while about how gay it looked, then threw a yoga magazine on the mat and told us to look at women. lol
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Sep 9, 2011 02:20
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KingColliwog posted:I don't agree with RR by the way, in my opinion it's good judo to use certain technique to force your opponent to give you certain reaction so you can follow-up with another technique. The way I see judo is very different from the way RR sees it and we had a few arguments in the past about that, I try not to anymore because I'm more into sport judo while he's not so we're basically not doing the same MA. To be clear I'm a "sport judoka" too. I compete and I've actually never left a tournament without a medal, though I don't have a perfect record (hooray double elim tournies). My traditional perspective comes from my teachers here in the states, Sensei Jin Iizumi, who's well known in the competitive scene and also a former student of Mifune, and the late Sensei Gene Mauro who was a US National Champ and member of the US World Team. Also my time in Japan at the Kodokan and high school gyms definitely factor in. Just wanted to remind you of that, because without being a dick about it, I think our different levels of experience and instruction have a lot to do with the differences in our views on Judo. Whenever you use a judo throw to force a reaction from your opponent that isn't "falling cleanly onto his back" you're doing the technique wrong. It's just that simple. Ridleys Revenge fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Sep 9, 2011 |
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Sep 9, 2011 02:25
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Ligur posted:I think a very good pedagogic method to teach someone to keep their hands up or stand behind their leg is to have someone clock you in the face if you do not, or rather even when you do, but I don't feel comfortable going into that direction at once. Also movement: practitioners who can and will put decent kicks from their position (in the fitness version) do very well as long as the target was either #1 a bag or a #2 focus mitt, however when something was moving it all falls to pieces. The distance is in shambles, the defense, gone. When moving, people with better form then I do lose balance when they execute a technique. Now this is all and good - absolutely nothing out of the regular, but if they've been doing everything like that for months or years how do you disassemble the habits of disregarding distance and defense and still keep the (semi-)good form. I'm afraid it will take some contact to sort that out.. I'm in this situation right now because i just started sparring recently after taking boxing classes for nearly a year, so I appreciate your rambling FWIW. Hitting an opponent that fights back is night and day compared to hitting a bag
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Sep 9, 2011 02:57
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mewse posted:I'm in this situation right now because i just started sparring recently after taking boxing classes for nearly a year, so I appreciate your rambling FWIW. Have I got the thing for you!
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Sep 9, 2011 03:23
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TheStampede posted:Have I got the thing for you! i would unironically fight this robot.. but notice he isn't slipping to the outside and countering, he's just backing up because the robot is stationary
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Sep 9, 2011 03:26
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Ligur posted:I think a very good pedagogic method to teach someone to keep their hands up or stand behind their leg is to have someone clock you in the face if you do not, or rather even when you do, but I don't feel comfortable going into that direction at once. Also movement: practitioners who can and will put decent kicks from their position (in the fitness version) do very well as long as the target was either #1 a bag or a #2 focus mitt, however when something was moving it all falls to pieces. The distance is in shambles, the defense, gone. When moving, people with better form then I do lose balance when they execute a technique. Now this is all and good - absolutely nothing out of the regular, but if they've been doing everything like that for months or years how do you disassemble the habits of disregarding distance and defense and still keep the (semi-)good form. I'm afraid it will take some contact to sort that out.. I read a research paper on Kinematics that echoed this. People learn to do what they've been training to do, in an exact sense. Most martial arts teach you to punch the air in a particular manner, and that's what people learn. IIRC the finding was that practice that mimics the action but nothing more doesn't really teach you, practice that has you doing a single action (punch a pad in position A) teaches you slowly and training that forces you to adapt the action to complex motions (punch this guy while he dodges and tries to punch you back) teaches you ~4x as fast. It was kind of cool because they just built a random useless task (controlling a robot arm that has a nonrandom interference acting against you) and so they were able to measure this stuff really accurately. Negative reinforcement isn't that important, but just having the complex movement really helps.
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Sep 9, 2011 03:57
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mewse posted:i would unironically fight this robot.. but notice he isn't slipping to the outside and countering, he's just backing up because the robot is stationary I can't tell if he's infinitely better or worse than he appears to be
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Sep 9, 2011 04:07
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NovemberMike posted:practice that has you doing a single action (punch a pad in position A) teaches you slowly and training that forces you to adapt the action to complex motions (punch this guy while he dodges and tries to punch you back) teaches you ~4x as fast. You still have to dole out the complexity slowly. If you threw a guy into the ring after teaching him a jab, he would never be able to practice the jab cuz he'd get hit first every single time. But yeah, I'm not really a fan of standing still pad drills. That doesn't make any sense to me. You should go very fast into teaching punches as part of a close distance, strike, exit/evade sequence. You see rank beginners turn their backs when they get pressured because they're not taught the footwork and ring sense to nearly the same degree as jab-cross combos.
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Sep 9, 2011 04:08
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mewse posted:i would unironically fight this robot.. but notice he isn't slipping to the outside and countering, he's just backing up because the robot is stationary Do you really want them to develop a robot that can chase you down and kick your rear end?
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Sep 9, 2011 04:22
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kimbo305 posted:You still have to dole out the complexity slowly. If you threw a guy into the ring after teaching him a jab, he would never be able to practice the jab cuz he'd get hit first every single time. You don't punch them hard, but you could start off by having them try to do a jab on you while you bounce around and try to counter-tap (not counter-punch, just lightly tap to let them know they messed up). You're not trying to make it hard, just realistically complex.
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Sep 9, 2011 04:42
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Ridleys Revenge posted:To be clear I'm a "sport judoka" too. I compete and I've actually never left a tournament without a medal, though I don't have a perfect record (hooray double elim tournies). My traditional perspective comes from my teachers here in the states, Sensei Jin Iizumi, who's well known in the competitive scene and also a former student of Mifune, and the late Sensei Gene Mauro who was a US National Champ and member of the US World Team. Also my time in Japan at the Kodokan and high school gyms definitely factor in. Just wanted to remind you of that, because without being a dick about it, I think our different levels of experience and instruction have a lot to do with the differences in our views on Judo. I'm certainly not going to argue that I have more experience than you do. And I certainly respect the knowledge that you have and I would certainly enjoy to spend some mat time with you because I certainly would be able to learn a lot. I think it's important to say that because I'm not here trying to pretend I'm someone I'm not and I'm not trying to say that you're full of poo poo or anything of that nature. You must also understand that my opinion on most thing related to judo (like the current subject of using a technique to force a reaction) are not based on my own experience but on the things I've been taught by my teachers which all have great experience both in doing judo themselves and in teaching students that have in many cases performed very well competitively in national championships. These teachers do not share your point of view and will teach people to use combos in the way I explained previously. It is that experience and not mine that I trust. I don't know if this is caused by a difference in regional style the judo teached here is pretty much French judo since all teachers are either French or have been taught by people from France and I'll assume that you have been taught Japanese style judo from the post I've quoted) or just a philosophical or whatever you want to call it difference. Their results are good enough to convince me that what they are doing is right. There might be other equally good way to train and do judo (I believe that there rarely is only one good ideal way to do things), but I certainly don't believe that what I'm being taught is a bad way to do judo. To me, good judo is mostly the judo that works in competitions, which is probably different from your point of view -even if you compete- since you've often stated in the previous thread that many (if not the majority) of olympic judokas have bad judo and that grip fighting is stupid at best and not good judo (sorry if I didn't understand you correctly on those points, feel free to correct me). For me judo is mainly 2 things : A competitive sport and a way to socialize with people who are now good friends. If it's within the rules and it works in competition at a high level, then it most likely fits my description of good judo. It's 100% ok for you to see judo as something else/something more, but I guess I'm still too young and/or inexperienced for that. quote:Whenever you use a judo throw to force a reaction from your opponent that isn't "falling cleanly onto his back" you're doing the technique wrong. It's just that simple. That's precisely the thing that I can't agree on. To me that would be like saying that some MMA guy who uses a jab to set up a take down is doing the jab wrong. Or that using a kimura to sweep your opponent in ground work even though you know you won't be able to finish with the kimura mean that your kimura was bad and/or that this is bad judo/bjj. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Sep 9, 2011 |
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Sep 9, 2011 04:51
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I went to my first BJJ class tonight. I would describe my first lesson as a mix of fun, learning, and hopelessness. I'm going back on Saturday.
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Sep 9, 2011 05:02
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Meat Recital posted:I went to my first BJJ class tonight. I would describe my first lesson as a mix of fun, learning, and hopelessness. I'm going back on Saturday. Welcome to this! Get ready to like it a little too much and become crazy obsessed! By the way, the hopelessness will end up going away, but the fun and learning are there to stay.
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Sep 9, 2011 05:28
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KingColliwog posted:Welcome to this! Get ready to like it a little too much and become crazy obsessed! By the way, the hopelessness will end up going away, but the fun and learning are there to stay. Hopelessness doesn't go away, it just becomes more infrequent.
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Sep 9, 2011 07:45
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dokomoy posted:Hopelessness doesn't go away, it just becomes more infrequent. The average stays the same, you just get spikes of insane joy and understanding as well as valleys where you think you're the shittiest lovely poo poo to ever poo poo poo poo.
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Sep 9, 2011 07:46
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KingColliwog posted:That's precisely the thing that I can't agree on. To me that would be like saying that some MMA guy who uses a jab to set up a take down is doing the jab wrong. Or that using a kimura to sweep your opponent in ground work even though you know you won't be able to finish with the kimura mean that your kimura was bad and/or that this is bad judo/bjj. All fair points and I know nothing of French judo except that it's the closest to traditional judo one finds outside Japan. The issue here is that the techniques are designed for maximum efficiency in one outcome: throwing your opponent. With judo's philosophy being so focused on efficiency, you're clearly not doing good judo when you do a series of hip fakes to encourage your opponent to react a certain way so that you can throw him with something else- it's a waste of time and energy, because just being gentle and nondirective actually results in you getting quicker, easier throws. But more importantly it impedes you mentally because good judo comes from a very Zen place of 'no mind,' where trying to out-think your opponent only weighs you down. What it really comes down to is that tournaments aren't everything. A strategy might gain merit from being effective at the higher levels of competition, but it also might rely heavily on an opponent being conditioned to react a certain way to a certain movement, and that type of thing won't work against everyone. Those who work to keep their judo in line with the high bar set by the old masters do well in all aspects of the art, where as those who just work to excel in competitions do well until they're past their prime and then quickly reform when they can't rely on athleticism to fill the gaps.
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Sep 9, 2011 08:20
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If it makes you guys feel better, 99 percent of non-gear kendo conversations turn into sport kendo vs correct kendo.
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Sep 9, 2011 08:23
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TheStampede posted:Do you really want them to develop a robot that can chase you down and kick your rear end? yes
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Sep 9, 2011 10:47
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I can't remember if it was here or in the grappling thread, but I think someone mentioned their school was hosting the Jean Jacques Machado Tri-State Open this weekend (quite a while ago). Just in case whoever you are is still reading this thread, I'll be there for the seminar and the tournament along with half my school.
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Sep 9, 2011 11:31
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Ridleys Revenge posted:Judo mentality conversation. Would I be wrong in saying that you aren't against comboing off of failed throws? If you fail a throw you would take the reaction you get to do another throw potentially. Is the distinction that you would not train for the combos but instead train to do a complete throw out of whatever reaction you just received (a reaction which potentially could have happened because of a previously failed throw). At my school we learn things like how to be offensive coming up from a failed seoi. Would you consider that time better spent perfecting the seoi?
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Sep 9, 2011 14:10
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Ridleys Revenge posted:Those who work to keep their judo in line with the high bar set by the old masters do well in all aspects of the art, where as those who just work to excel in competitions do well until they're past their prime and then quickly reform when they can't rely on athleticism to fill the gaps. I'm sorry, do you have something to support this that isn't just words? Records of fights between old competitors and "old masters"? You're sounding a lot like the old Japanese guys I've heard who talk about the "purity" of judo in a way that resembles nothing I've read from Kano or anyone else that was there in the early days (going up to the 50s-60s).
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Sep 9, 2011 16:18
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https://www.judochampions.com/coach/how_to_excel_in_judo John Holm is hilariously ornery but is the exact diametric opposite of the judo forum guys.
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Sep 9, 2011 17:19
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Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. There's "street" judo where you can grab somebody's leg and the legal set of moves is anything that can be trained full contact, and there's competition judo where you are trying to maximize your win percentage within a set of rules. The traditionalists don't really seem to emphasize either and have this weird semi-mystical approach that emphasizes a "correct" judo and an "incorrect" judo without putting it in relation to defending yourself or competing.
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Sep 9, 2011 17:43
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Office Sheep posted:Would I be wrong in saying that you aren't against comboing off of failed throws? That's correct. Training to do a weak o soto gari to set up a switch into harai goshi is bad for one's judo, because you're giving your opponent the opportunity to make the first real attack by potentially countering your osoto (probably with an osoto of his own). Also, you end up screwing yourself up when the opponent decides to respond in a way you don't expect, like sweeping your initial step when you dash in, because you're still focused three moves down the line so you won't react as quickly as someone who's simply 'in the moment.' However, if you're attacking with an o soto and feel the opponent shift his weight to prepare a certain counter, there's nothing wrong with changing your throw to take advantage of the changing situation, that's just good judo. It should be noted though that if you're waiting for the opponent to block your throw before you make the change, you're not reacting fast enough, and giving him the opportunity to counter- there's no reason to give them the chance to stuff your throw before you make your switch (but you won't have that high degree of speed and sensitivity unless you're fighting with the Zen no-mind). Ridleys Revenge fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 9, 2011 |
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Sep 9, 2011 17:51
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Ridleys Revenge posted:(but you won't have that high degree of speed and sensitivity unless you're fighting with the Zen no-mind) I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. Unless you're just defining the Zen no-mind as "being in the zone", which is something any athlete does. Actively training your followups for a possible failure does nothing to prevent this state of mind. I've been doing some reading of scientific papers on how we learn physical actions and what you are saying directly contradicts good research (I'll try to find it again). Even the logic is unsound, since he's just creating a fork where not defending causes the initial throw to succeed and a normal defense causes the second throw to succeed. If there's a second counter then you're still probably in better off shape if you've practiced how to transition from a failed throw to a new one.
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Sep 9, 2011 18:05
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NovemberMike posted:I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. Unless you're just defining the Zen no-mind as "being in the zone" That's pretty much exactly what it is. and all this judo talk makes me wish I could do that stuff more often. My standup game consists entirely of praying I can get my grips and jump guard before the other guy shoots a takedown
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Sep 9, 2011 18:24
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NovemberMike posted:Unless you're just defining the Zen no-mind as "being in the zone", which is something any athlete does. No-mind or "the zone" if you'd prefer is something that happens to athletes from time to time, but that's not the same thing as being able to access that state at will, which is something that requires conscious practice to achieve. You'll never get to a place where you can just 'flip the switch' if you're always training yourself that fight-mind means trying to think a two steps ahead of yourself.
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Sep 9, 2011 19:58
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TheStampede posted:Have I got the thing for you! I think the Ninja Turtles already did that with a washing machine and boxing gloves like 20 years ago. Also I know it's a long shot, but was anybody here on the Rhadi Ferguson teleseminar last night?
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Sep 10, 2011 02:50
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Ridleys Revenge posted:All fair points and I know nothing of French judo except that it's the closest to traditional judo one finds outside Japan. The issue here is that the techniques are designed for maximum efficiency in one outcome: throwing your opponent. With judo's philosophy being so focused on efficiency, you're clearly not doing good judo when you do a series of hip fakes to encourage your opponent to react a certain way so that you can throw him with something else- it's a waste of time and energy, This is Koga. Koga is probably the best pure Judo player of the last 50 years. Koga gives zero fucks about combos because he is Koga. His Judo is so pure you could drink it. Koga still fakes leg sweeps. This is Yasuhiro Yamashita. He is the most dominent Judo player of the last 50 years. He will counter the poo poo out of you if you let him. He wins Olympics gold medals with only one knee. He will combo if he needs to. My point here is these are two of the most superhuman Judoka alive. These guys, especially Koga, are pure, uncut, Kano approved Judo. and even they use combos and counters. How can you say with a straight face that using combos isn't good? Using combos to gain kuzushi is good Judo. Rouge even discusses his success with combos in his Harai-Goshi Masterclass book, if you are from the French school of Judo and want backing from them. I will not dispute that the perfect Judo throw requires no set-up or combo. But most of us are not perfect, we are regular. For 99.9999999% of people who do Judo, combos are not only required, they improve one's game. I've trained with and competed against guys who have competed internationally from every continent but Antarctica, and every single on of them used combonations to set up their best throws. Koga again, because everyone should watch him in action. It is the sexiest thing you'll see today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6i3WaVNpGM Thoguh fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Sep 10, 2011 |
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Sep 10, 2011 02:50
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Doing Judo against someone who doesn't know you're doing Judo against them, it might be wasteful to do fakes and combos--you wouldn't really need to. Otherwise I agree with Thoguh.
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Sep 10, 2011 03:08
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He steps in really deep for his seoi nage. Is that just something that works for him or is it a common variation?
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Sep 10, 2011 04:17
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I am in the market for my second gi. I am thinking of a double weave this time. The problem is I am 6'4" and 190 lbs. Last time I bought a single weave and I just tried a bunch on until I found the one that fit best. This time I am trying to order online and the size charts are not helpful because I am long and skinny. Any tips or advice would be appreciated.esquilax posted:He steps in really deep for his seoi nage. Is that just something that works for him or is it a common variation? The guy at my club with the best standing seoi steps about that deep. Office Sheep fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Sep 10, 2011 |
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Sep 10, 2011 04:20
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esquilax posted:He steps in really deep for his seoi nage. Is that just something that works for him or is it a common variation? Koga doesn't do a bent leg like mortals. Koga does his seoi straight legged and gives no fucks. If you are superman you can do the straight legged version. The key for Koga was that he was so good that it didn't matter what his opponents did. He was going to throw you. Most people don't get anywhere near that deep for their hip throws.
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Sep 10, 2011 04:39
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Yamashita himself is a proponent of the "always commit fully to each attack" philosophy, so I'm interested to see you bringing him up Thoguh. Also do you honestly think I said combos are bad or are you just trolling? Finally, we may not be perfect but we must always strive for perfection- anything less is bad judo. E: Additionally, to explain for those who don't know, guys like Okano, Koga and Yamashita are basically hailed as gods of competitive judo, because they brought a traditional judo attitude into what was essentially a hostile environment: Olympic competitions that were so muddled by regulations and weight classes and a fanatical desire to please ignorant spectators that good judo was rarely seen even in their time, and they all lament that it is basically nonexistent in the competitive scene today. Yamashita even claims to be heading a "judo renaissance" to try to bring back the traditional philosophies and repair the damage that has been done to the art before it dies completely (paraphrased but I've got a big writeup from him on the subject if anyone's interested). IIRC Okano's doing something similar. Ridleys Revenge fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Sep 10, 2011 |
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Sep 10, 2011 05:35
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