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Not sure about Boss Alien specifically, but I know a few ex-BlackRock people were goons, so there's a good chance. Also, Hi fellow Brighton goon!
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Sep 10, 2011 20:17
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No engineering manager in the world cares what the bizdev guy thinks about the style of his/her candidates, folks. Use common sense and don't look/smell like a slob. Beyond that all that matters is that you feel and look comfortable and confident.
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Sep 10, 2011 22:56
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Unless you're going for an outward-facing job, like PR/Community or a producer role (those guys are getting more and more facetime with the public every year). Anyhow, just started a GDC Online (Austin) thread. It's here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3436375&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post395347310
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Sep 11, 2011 01:44
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DancingMachine posted:No engineering manager in the world cares what the bizdev guy thinks about the style of his/her candidates, folks. You have to work with other people who won't enjoy working days, nights, and weekends with someone who doesn't take care of themselves. They may even avoid you, pass you over for promotions or invitations to networking opportunities, or hold your appearance and their first impression against you in other ways that harm your career, your chances of surviving the next round of layoffs, your team's productivity, or how your project is treated within the company. If all you're thinking about is getting hired because you can perform the specific tasks outlined in the job specification, you're not a great candidate; you're just a passable one. I was also responding to Shalinor, who's starting a company. If you have greater aspirations than working on other people's games, you should be cognizant of, and careful with, your reputation with the people who matter to realizing your dream. This is a small industry with even smaller companies. Management tends to stay management and word travels fast between meetings. Make sure that when people talk about you, they're thinking kindly of you. You can do that by not only performing your job well, but also by looking your best and thereby lifting the spirits of those around you. Adraeus fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 01:51
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I'm glad we talked about suitthread. I'd now like to talk about shavethread. I haven't shaved in years. I use a hairtrimmer without a guard to "shave" because I hate actual shaving. As a result I get a result where the hair is very short (less than 1/8") but still not clean shaven. Is this okay? I look a lot younger when I shave and I'm not very good at it so I'm bound to get nicks. But then, this is a job interview and I'd very much not like to do something that will cause a problem. Most companies (especially game companies) don't care about things like this anymore, so I think I should be good. But, wanting to cover all my bases, I'm asking for opinions here.
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Sep 11, 2011 02:08
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Vino posted:I'm glad we talked about suitthread. I'd now like to talk about shavethread. It really depends on your gender.
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Sep 11, 2011 02:12
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Vino posted:I'm glad we talked about suitthread. I'd now like to talk about shavethread. And hell, if it did look exactly like a birds nest (or a windmill), then you might have an artist job in the bag. Never know, might meet a fellow 'stache-sculptor and you two can talk shop for the entire interview. I'd listen to a podcast about beards.
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Sep 11, 2011 02:14
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Vino posted:I'm glad we talked about suitthread. I'd now like to talk about shavethread. Sculpt and shave the neckline. Do not just let that poo poo grow willy nilly down into your chest hair. You need to have an established neckline if you want to be able to pull it off as intentional, no matter how regularly you trim it down if you just let it run roughshod all over your face, it does not look intentional.
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Sep 11, 2011 09:00
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coeranys posted:Sculpt and shave the neckline. Do not just let that poo poo grow willy nilly down into your chest hair. You need to have an established neckline if you want to be able to pull it off as intentional, no matter how regularly you trim it down if you just let it run roughshod all over your face, it does not look intentional. Yeah, poo poo like this is never attractive or professional-looking, if you ask me: 
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Sep 11, 2011 09:15
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hailthefish posted:Yeah, poo poo like this is never attractive or professional-looking, if you ask me: (This is a joke, by the way. I think you all must work in very different game studios to the ones I've worked in. And if someone's interviewing you and turns you down because you're wearing the wrong type of shirt - well you probably got a lucky break because that person sounds like a mental, power-hungry, oval office to work underneath, who has a bizarre set of values about what is and what isn't important in a games programmer.)
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Sep 11, 2011 09:46
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FreakyZoid posted:Definitely, I refuse to work with programmers who look like that. I assume that their code will be as slapdash as their facial grooming regime. The discussion as we're having it probably would reside more comfortably in some thread about how to dress and behave as an adult, and isn't games-specific. There is no world in which it is appropriate to dress like a slob and look like you can't groom yourself when interviewing for a job, especially in an industry that is known to be as competitive as this one. Nobody is going to turn you down just because you're wearing the wrong type of shirt, but when jobs get 100 applicants, and they end up interviewing 10 people who are all at least ostensibly similarly qualified, what is it that you think influences the final decision? If you're good enough to crush all comers when in the running for a job, you wouldn't be in here asking for advice on what to wear, so it seems reasonable (or even a bit generous) to assume that if you're in that situation, you're at a level where you are qualified for the job in question, but probably not so much more so than any other applicant that the impression you make on first meeting is unimportant. Edit: Basically, wear nice clothes, including accessories, smile and make eye contact, have a firm handshake and the ability to make conversation both within and outside of your field. This is generic interviewing advice, but games is not immune to the applicability thereof.
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Sep 11, 2011 10:38
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FreakyZoid posted:(This is a joke, by the way. I think you all must work in very different game studios to the ones I've worked in. And if someone's interviewing you and turns you down because you're wearing the wrong type of shirt - well you probably got a lucky break because that person sounds like a mental, power-hungry, oval office to work underneath, who has a bizarre set of values about what is and what isn't important in a games programmer.) Looking nice won't get you hired, but what I've heard from recruiter-friends is that they're keeping an eye out for anything that triggers their "instant fail" checklist. After dealing with thousand of applicants, it gets to the point where it only takes one thing and they move onto the next person. So, it won't get you hired by looking nice, but it might get you not-hired by not looking nice. One of them even told me that they could give a drat what you look like after you're hired, but it's a privilege earned by having passed the interview.
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Sep 11, 2011 10:54
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I wore black jeans, a tucked in button up, and a belt for my interview. And some black shoes (not sneakers)...although I'm pretty sure I got the job based on my art test not so much what I was wearing :P
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Sep 11, 2011 11:08
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I generally assume that fat dudes like myself can't wear button ups so good so when I need to dress up fancy its a Mono-tone t-shirt under a undone button up shirt and my good jeans. It tends to be smart enough for clubbing/interviews but casual enough for going out to the pub
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Sep 11, 2011 11:53
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FreakyZoid posted:This is a joke, by the way. I think you all must work in very different game studios to the ones I've worked in. And if someone's interviewing you and turns you down because you're wearing the wrong type of shirt - well you probably got a lucky break because... Adraeus fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 11:57
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Where? The one office in the business center in Northridge, Ca. edit: Contributing to suitchat, I thought it was obvious to look very presentable. In all my previous jobs I've gone in with nice shoes, slacks, nice belt, and a dress shirt. Tie if necessary. Never had to wear a jacket. While you'll mostly be gauged upon the merit of your work, first appearances are hugely key. If you look like a slob you shouldn't even bother. TopHatGenius fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 12:23
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Solus posted:I generally assume that fat dudes like myself can't wear button ups so good so when I need to dress up fancy its a Mono-tone t-shirt under a undone button up shirt and my good jeans. It tends to be smart enough for clubbing/interviews but casual enough for going out to the pub Depends how fat you are. If the answer is "a lot", you can pull it off with a jacket on top of your button up. Solid dark colors, with a light colored jacket works wonders.
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Sep 11, 2011 12:34
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When I'm interviewing and hiring people, I like to see that they went to some effort to look nice for their interview. A couple of hours (or a whole afternoon, depending) is really not a lot of time to get to know someone, when you are going to be working with and relying on this person for 40+ hours a week, so every bit of information I can glean about a prospective employee is vital. When I see that someone has taken the time and put a little extra effort into looking nice for the interview, it demonstrates to me that they have the capacity for that effort, and that they are willing to exercise it for my benefit. Since that is exactly what I will be employing them to do (make effort for the benefit of the job and the company), dressing up, and doing it well, is a good indicator of their ability and willingness to do that. Obviously ability matters, too, but there are a lot more ways to judge that outside of the interview (references, tests, etc.).
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Sep 11, 2011 13:52
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GetWellGamers posted:it's a privilege earned by having passed the interview. If you're conducting interviews with the mindset that these plebs would be lucky if you judged them worthy of a job with you then yes, you are a power hungry oval office, and I'm glad to not work under you. Your company isn't as good as you think it is, you should be trying to sell the idea of working there to me.
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Sep 11, 2011 13:55
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FreakyZoid posted:I wouldn't turn down a job offer just because the guys sat on the other side of the table were all wearing shorts, or had "unprofessional" facial / neck hair.
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Sep 11, 2011 15:36
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As someone who interviews pretty much every level that walks in the door, I recommend dressing well to the point of sport coat/blazer, but never a full suit. A suit makes you looks like you don't belong in the industry. Suits are for Christmas parties.
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Sep 11, 2011 16:59
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If it's any use to this silly conversation, the companies that recruit from my program, including game as well as film companies like Dreamworks and Pixar, have all said that they don't like it when we wear suits or ties to interviews. Just wear what you can be yourself in without looking like you're homeless. The end.
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Sep 11, 2011 18:48
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Black Eagle posted:I was also responding to Shalinor, who's starting a company. If you have greater aspirations than working on other people's games, you should be cognizant of, and careful with, your reputation with the people who matter to realizing your dream. This is a small industry with even smaller companies. Management tends to stay management and word travels fast between meetings. Make sure that when people talk about you, they're thinking kindly of you. You can do that by not only performing your job well, but also by looking your best and thereby lifting the spirits of those around you. For me, that's the aforementioned slacks / top / vest thingy, and a few other things... and I would never, even remotely, expect to break that out for anything shy of an interview or a planned introductory meeting with a player in the industry. If someone thinks less of me for not spending that kind of time to prepare for a regular day of software development - great, I'm glad for them, they can think less of me, because I'd have no interest in the cost of sustaining a professional relationship with them. Which is I think what most are getting at. Don't overshoot with a 3-piece suit that obviously is not you, just wear nice clothing and don't smell like cheetos. Past the interview, you can dress comfortably, but still not be a slob that smells like cheetos. EDIT: BizarroAzrael posted:It really depends on your gender.  EDIT2: ... and to "dude that shaves with a trimmer and the smallest guard" - that is digusting, I'm sorry  No one can pull that off, it makes you look like a hobo or a permanently hung-over dude. If you can't shave with a razor, just get an electric, no one can hurt themselves with an electric. Or, if you want to look older, actually grow and maintain facial hair. Pick one side or the other.EDIT3: VVV You could also do short-guard razor to take the hair down, and then use an electric to take it back to just the beard area. The disgusting part is if you let it drip down your neck like some kind of brown moss. Google around for styling tips on that. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 18:49
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Haha okay. Aside from interviews, I dislike being clean shaven and also dislike having too much hair on my face, so trimming it very short with a hair trimmer seems like the best route. Anyway I guess the prevailing opinion is that shaving is the best bet. Baby face Vino FTW. My mom would be pleased to hear she was right.
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Sep 11, 2011 19:09
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I had a beard during my interview. But I agree with whoever said it above me, if you're going to have a beard at lease carve it a bit and clean up the cheek/neck line for fucks sake or you're gonna look like a goddamn hobo or dirty goon. Also, if your beard is patchy don't even bother, we know you try but genes are a bitch sorry bros.
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Sep 11, 2011 20:36
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Vino posted:Haha okay. Aside from interviews, I dislike being clean shaven and also dislike having too much hair on my face, so trimming it very short with a hair trimmer seems like the best route. I'm like you -- I hate being baby-faced (because it literally makes me look like I'm 10 years old, and as a lawyer and a diplomat, that's not a good thing as it makes it harder for people to take me seriously when negotiating). But my beard is blond after it grows past the 5-o'clock shadow stage, so I don't like it too long either. So I try to time things so that I shave the morning of the day before I have a significant meeting, which ensures that I have enough of a 5-o'clock shadow to give my jawline definition, but not so much to make me look like a scrub. Catering to vanity? Sure. Grand total of fucks given? Zero. In my areas of work, fashion/style can be as important as your substantive skillset. Granted, it's a different set of norms than a creative probably has, but them's the breaks. Someone's gotta write your contracts. Leif. fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 21:25
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Black Eagle posted:A typical engineering manager might not weigh appearance too heavily when making a hiring decision, but game development isn't a solo sport. It seems like this is all covered by the part of my post that you didn't quote. And yeah you may need to go above and beyond for inter-corporate meetings depending on the firm you are meeting with, sure. I guess the key insight I am trying to impart is that looking decent doesn't correlate directly with level of formality. I actually hire developers for a major studio so I thought the perspective would be useful.
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Sep 11, 2011 21:53
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dress like a bum and wing it
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Sep 11, 2011 22:17
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Or a storm trooper.
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Sep 11, 2011 22:55
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Chernabog posted:Or a storm trooper. I would hire someone on the spot if they were qualified and dressed as a storm trooper
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Sep 11, 2011 23:08
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BizarroAzrael posted:It really depends on your gender. 
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Sep 11, 2011 23:12
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Let's assume you have one job opening and two candidates that have a similar skill-set and similar experience. Both interviews go extremely well. One hasn't shaved in a week and is wearing a wrinkled t-shirt, the other is cleanly shaven and has a collar. Who do you think gets the job? Shave/trim. Put on a clean shirt. Wear a bit of cologne. All of this helps make a good first impression, and a good first impression is probably one of the most important things you can ever have going your way. Note that this is coming from a programmer that wears shorts to work for 10 months of the year (in Canada).
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Sep 11, 2011 23:25
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I went to a games industry wedding recently and there were Storm Trooper ushers. And a Tetris cake. And champagne glasses arranged in the shape of a Space Invader. Good times. At the interview for my current job I wore black jeans (£27.99 from Burton's menswear), a chequered shirt with the sleeves rolled up (£19.99 from H&M, the sleeve rolling I had to do myself) and black Adidas trainers (£24.99 from Deichmann on Dundee High Street). I was clean shaven but if it'd been a couple of months earlier I'd have had a full beard. My head was also shaven (a 3mm setting on the hair clippers IIRC).
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Sep 11, 2011 23:33
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Shalinor posted:EDIT2: ... and to "dude that shaves with a trimmer and the smallest guard" - that is digusting, I'm sorry I've seen plenty of people that shave with a trimmer with no guard, and use a razor below the jawline. Gives a clean 5'o shadow look and it looks good. People that grow in patchy can't do it, but it's a great alternative to full out neckbeard.
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Sep 11, 2011 23:36
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Solus posted:I would hire someone on the spot if they were qualified and dressed as a storm trooper http://www.tk409.com/gettingajob.html 
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Sep 11, 2011 23:38
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oswald ownenstein posted:but it's a great alternative to full out neckbeard. That's the key, is having a defined neckline (and depending on how it grows on your cheeks, a defined upper bound as well.) The key to pulling off a beard, even if it's not a full beard, just hair an eighth to quarter inch long all over your face, is making it clear that you are doing so intentionally. People don't realize why they react as they do towards facial hair all the time, but the "ugh, neckbeard" reaction is almost always because it looks as if they just let it run over their face however they want. That same person could just define the neckline (NECK, not jaw) and the neckbeard look disappears, replaced by a ruggedly handsome beard wearer.
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Sep 11, 2011 23:39
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Jagermaestro posted:Let's assume you have one job opening and two candidates that have a similar skill-set and similar experience. Both interviews go extremely well. One hasn't shaved in a week and is wearing a wrinkled t-shirt, the other is cleanly shaven and has a collar. Who do you think gets the job?
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Sep 12, 2011 00:17
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FreakyZoid posted:Ah yes, the famous hypothetical slob / tidy twins. I've yet to meet them in person. I think it's a silly comparison because if someone can't be bothered to dress themselves properly, it doesn't seem very likely that they're going to come off as being very interested in the job in the interview. Or at least, the quality of their answers is probably going to be pretty similar to the quality of their grooming. This doesn't mean that "Better dressed = better candidate", but if someone is actually competent and interested in a job, it seems highly unlikely that they'll show up to the interview looking like they just spent a week lying in bed. Unless they have serious social deficiencies, anyway.
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Sep 12, 2011 00:24
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coeranys posted:That's the key, is having a defined neckline (and depending on how it grows on your cheeks, a defined upper bound as well.) The key to pulling off a beard, even if it's not a full beard, just hair an eighth to quarter inch long all over your face, is making it clear that you are doing so intentionally. People don't realize why they react as they do towards facial hair all the time, but the "ugh, neckbeard" reaction is almost always because it looks as if they just let it run over their face however they want. That same person could just define the neckline (NECK, not jaw) and the neckbeard look disappears, replaced by a ruggedly handsome beard wearer. Also, if you're going to rock the ruggedly handsome unshaven shaven look, at least consider an Indiana Jones-esque hat a/o leather satchel. Because it would be totally awesome.
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Sep 12, 2011 00:29
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oswald ownenstein posted:I've seen plenty of people that shave with a trimmer with no guard, and use a razor below the jawline. Gives a clean 5'o shadow look and it looks good. I do this, it looks good, just remember to give the main piece-du-beardage a do over with a 3/4 setting to get rid of the hobo stragglers. No guard the edges then clean over with a razor. Looks neat. Works a treat. This thread is now: Dev-eye for the straight guy
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