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Mr Crustacean posted:Could the 'stabbing one dear to him' part of the azor ahai prophecy refer to Jon giving up on rescuing Arya? The key thing is that somebody's soul needs to go into lightbringer. quote:Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer. I think Drogo's soul is literally in Drogon. I wouldn't rule out multiple Azor Ahais, and I'm sure Jon's dream means something. However, it could just be that somebody takes longclaw off Jon's corpse and later Jon takes Stannis's sword after he dies, that would be a hilarious red herring.
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Sep 11, 2011 23:21
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Quantify! posted:What is this theory? Because it sounds funny. Something about Edd never speaking directly to another character and getting a response back, like Bruce Willis, but then it was pointed out Sam talks to him.
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Sep 12, 2011 02:33
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Also, when he sent Edd to run the all girls dorm, someone probably would have mentioned to Jon that he was loving crazy.
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Sep 12, 2011 08:23
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If anyone wasn't getting that it was a joke (or god forbid the person who came up with the idea wasn't joking) they need to be on medication because they are crazy. I like dumb and funny theories but I think some people take these wacky theories seriously and I worry about them.
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Sep 12, 2011 09:19
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I'm coming down decidedly on the Jon isn't dead side of things, and I don't see much mention of Stannis either so I'm guessing no one fell for that fake out. The Azor Ahai thing seems suspect to me. I know Stannis isn't the guy. I'm not even sure if he has the sword. I'd really like to know more about that, and about Melisandre in general. I almost thought she was evil, but then I realized moral absolutism doesnt belong in a judgement of this series, and that I was only making that judgment based off her unfamiliarity and her propensity for burning characters and idols I was familiar with. I've also always been a big Dani supporter, but now I'm not so sure. Her actions in the last two books have been fairly boring. Especially with this one. I don't care what happens to her practice kingdom, I want to see her start playing the game of thrones for real, but I know she can't because those ironmen assholes and probably Tyrion and his crew are all eager to hang out with her in her little backwater. Great. Maybe Tyrion can get her to do something, and ensure that House Lannister makes it through this as well, I'm a big Lannister supporter.
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Sep 12, 2011 10:04
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The REAL twist: Stannis is Azor Ahai.
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Sep 12, 2011 14:28
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Really my hope is that either nobody is Azor Ahai, or it remains fairly ambiguous. Same goes for all the other prophecies in the books. I hope every single one ends up being bullshit. Have any been conclusively shown to come true?
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Sep 12, 2011 14:50
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My money's on total ambiguity for all prophecies which could be, to be honest. I think it's been set up that way. I mean, we already have multiple candidates for quite a few of them, and it's not like the prophecy writer's going come forward to clarify 'oh, it's Dany'.
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Sep 12, 2011 15:12
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skindepth posted:I'd really like to know more about that, and about Melisandre in general. I almost thought she was evil, but then I realized moral absolutism doesnt belong in a judgement of this series, and that I was only making that judgment based off her unfamiliarity and her propensity for burning characters and idols I was familiar with. This is freaking hilarious. At first you thought Melisandre was evil, but now that you've gotten to know her you realize you were just biased against her cuz she regularly burned people to death. Yes, surely your eyes have been opened to the evils of moral absolutism.
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Sep 12, 2011 17:06
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:Really my hope is that either nobody is Azor Ahai, or it remains fairly ambiguous. Same goes for all the other prophecies in the books. I hope every single one ends up being bullshit. Have any been conclusively shown to come true? I thought we conclusively decided that Hodor is Azor Ahai?
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Sep 12, 2011 17:59
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You fools, Ser Pounce is Azor Ahai. Arya fathered him while warged into the black tom, it's so obvious.
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Sep 12, 2011 18:17
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So what the gently caress is up with them Maesters? Nobody talks about them but they seem to have this whole 'behind the scenes' Illuminati poo poo going. That guy at the end of feast talks about Aemon getting assassinated hypothetically, and the rumor is that the dragons were like, slowly assraped by maesters through the ages, etc. And a bunch of stuff like that. So who expects Maester Luwin to reappear and be like an evil zombie, and he'll like, have a swordfight with Sam or something. I dunno. Those Maesters are going to be major players though. Anyway.
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Sep 12, 2011 18:32
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I think the implication is that the maesters convinced the Targaryens to keep the dragons penned up, which over time made them weaker and smaller. Eventually they were so weak that they couldn't hatch anymore, or else they were poisoning the eggs. Either way it's hard to imagine that the maesters set out on some grand dragonslaying crusade, it's going to be much more subtle scheme of "kill the dragons".
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Sep 12, 2011 18:56
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:Really my hope is that either nobody is Azor Ahai, or it remains fairly ambiguous. Same goes for all the other prophecies in the books. I hope every single one ends up being bullshit. Have any been conclusively shown to come true? "Blood and Fire", if that counts.
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Sep 12, 2011 18:59
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Some of Bran's dreams came true, I think. E.g., there's one about a huge giant of a knight with no head inside his helmet.
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Sep 12, 2011 19:06
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Brannock posted:I think the implication is that the maesters convinced the Targaryens to keep the dragons penned up, which over time made them weaker and smaller. Eventually they were so weak that they couldn't hatch anymore, or else they were poisoning the eggs. What are they up to now though? The dude talks to Sam at the end of Feast and he's all like YO MAN THE MAESTERS ARE TRYING TO CREATE A CERTAIN KIND OF WORLD. Also they buy any and all book, so maybe some magic books, so maybe these fuckers are like, hoarding or destroying magical poo poo? KNOW WHAT I MEAN DUDE? God I get loving excited by this poo poo.
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Sep 12, 2011 19:13
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HarveyVdarski posted:So what the gently caress is up with them Maesters? Nobody talks about them but they seem to have this whole 'behind the scenes' Illuminati poo poo going. That guy at the end of feast talks about Aemon getting assassinated hypothetically, and the rumor is that the dragons were like, slowly assraped by maesters through the ages, etc. The Jaquen H'ghar/Alchemist/Pod subplot is probably going to explain this (ambiguosly). And that will be Sam at Hogw...I mean Oldtown. Based on current evidence, and as I've said in prior posts, as it stands I'm with the Maesters. A world free of the depredations of the arcane and the absurd sounds like a better place. Less "magical" but also less poo poo that can burn you to death. This is why the depicition of the dragons made me laugh a little. It was done in a interesting way; they were edgy apex predators with no real ecological niche. So instead of D&D you got those ones from that bad Christian Bale/Matthew Mcconaughey movies.
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Sep 12, 2011 19:18
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Aurubin posted:The Jaquen H'ghar/Alchemist/Pod subplot is probably going to explain this (ambiguosly). And that will be Sam at Hogw...I mean Oldtown. Based on current evidence, and as I've said in prior posts, as it stands I'm with the Maesters. A world free of the depredations of the arcane and the absurd sounds like a better place. Less "magical" but also less poo poo that can burn you to death. This is a common misconception. Much like elephants, dragons needy be properly socialized with other older dragons to suppress many of their antisocial tendencies. They learn by observing and left on their own without guidance they end up being big jerks, punting rhinos and eating whole khalasars.
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Sep 12, 2011 20:32
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Why is this thread photoshop-tagged now?
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Sep 12, 2011 21:23
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Despite how well liked he is around here, I suspect any theory with Delorous Edd playing a central role is unlikely to come about.
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Sep 12, 2011 21:24
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Aurubin posted:The Jaquen H'ghar/Alchemist/Pod subplot is probably going to explain this (ambiguosly). And that will be Sam at Hogw...I mean Oldtown. Based on current evidence, and as I've said in prior posts, as it stands I'm with the Maesters. A world free of the depredations of the arcane and the absurd sounds like a better place. Less "magical" but also less poo poo that can burn you to death. The world of A Song of Ice and Fire can never become like our world, because the rules are different. The maesters, while progressing science, are loving things up on a global scale because they suppress magic.
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Sep 12, 2011 21:26
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Quantify! posted:The implication seems to be that if you kill the dragons, you throw the magical world out of whack. In other words, the Maesters can't create a magic-free world, because if you suppress the influence of the good gods, the bad gods start loving poo poo up. If I am reading this interpretation right, suppressing magic is equivalent to outlawing the use of guns in the United States, while every other (evil) country is still allowed to use them...and that makes zero sense to me. It seems to be the case that someway or another you can magic disappear all together (good and bad).
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Sep 12, 2011 22:12
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Quantify! posted:The world of A Song of Ice and Fire can never become like our world, because the rules are different. The maesters, while progressing science, are loving things up on a global scale because they suppress magic. Actually the world of A Song of Ice and Fire is our world, hundreds of thousands of years in the future. The various gods are the remnants of the Noosphere, that destroyed humanity through warping reality, which hosed with the seasonal shifts and also introduced all these "magical" elements. Once the Noosphere realized it had no purpose now that humans are gone, it decided to restart humanity with minor changes in biology and stuff, and attempted to recreate the course of human history in this supernatural environment.
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Sep 12, 2011 22:23
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I don't know that the Bad Magic is tied to the absence of dragons though, I don't think the maesters are indirectly responsible for the Others or what not.
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Sep 12, 2011 22:26
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Martin Van Buren posted:Actually the world of A Song of Ice and Fire is our world, hundreds of thousands of years in the future. The various gods are the remnants of the Noosphere, that destroyed humanity through warping reality, which hosed with the seasonal shifts and also introduced all these "magical" elements. Once the Noosphere realized it had no purpose now that humans are gone, it decided to restart humanity with minor changes in biology and stuff, and attempted to recreate the course of human history in this supernatural environment. It all makes sense now.
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Sep 12, 2011 22:26
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withak posted:It all makes sense now. Notice how Grrm has stated that Westeros is "roughly the size of South America"? Maybe it roughly is South America. That would makes Essos modern day Europe/Africa/Middle East, Sothoros a hosed up Antarctic, and The Land of Always Winter a messed up North America. 
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Sep 12, 2011 22:27
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Jimmy James posted:If I am reading this interpretation right, suppressing magic is equivalent to outlawing the use of guns in the United States, while every other (evil) country is still allowed to use them...and that makes zero sense to me. It seems to be the case that someway or another you can magic disappear all together (good and bad). Cutting down the magic trees and killing the magic fire dragons meant less power for the green and red gods to work in the world. Meanwhile the ice god has a fresh supply of corpses all the time. Checks and balances man.
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Sep 12, 2011 22:32
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So why did dragons come back? Balances?
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Sep 12, 2011 22:39
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HarveyVdarski posted:So why did dragons come back? Balances?
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Sep 12, 2011 22:47
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I don't think we can say that magic is returning because of the dragons hatching at all. It could just a s well be that the dragons returned BECAUSE magic, for whatever reason, is making a comeback. Same with the Others. It might also be a bit of a
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Sep 12, 2011 23:03
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Quantify! posted:Cutting down the magic trees and killing the magic fire dragons meant less power for the green and red gods to work in the world. Meanwhile the ice god has a fresh supply of corpses all the time. But dragons are a part of recent history. The Others are all but fairytales. Edit: Oh, unless you mean the mere presence of the dragons and magic trees were enough to keep the Great Other's power down and that's why we're seeing the Others returning now. Junkenstein fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Sep 12, 2011 |
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Sep 12, 2011 23:06
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Junkenstein posted:Oh, unless you mean the mere presence of the dragons and magic trees were enough to keep the Great Other's power down and that's why we're seeing the Others returning now. The green, red, and white gods seem to bestow what are largely the same gifts. The green gods allow you to recieve visions and to see through the eyes of others, as well as prolong your life. The power seems to come from the natural world and the gods work through living things. The red gods allow you to recieve visions and to restore life, which seems to basically be soul transference. The power comes from fire and blood and the gods work through sacrifice. The white gods allow the Others to reanimate dead flesh and to see through the eyes of their zombies. This is a combination of the red gods ability to resurrect, and the green gods ability to project the mind. Presumably their power comes from death, and they work through dead things. Since in a perfectly balanced world, the followers of any one god wouldn't have a particular advantage over the followers of any other god, one assumes that there is meant to be a balance. The fact that the seasons are erratic in length supports this theory. The three seasons represent each of the gods. In a balanced world, Spring, Summer, and Winter would be of equal lengths because the green, red, and white gods are equally powerful.
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Sep 12, 2011 23:39
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Why even assume that any of the gods mentioned in the book are real? Isn't it reasonable that magic exists in the world and therefore humans created gods to explain the magic? There seems to be quite a bit of agnosticism, ambivalence, or outright hostility from various characters to all of the religions in the books. Just saying...
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Sep 12, 2011 23:56
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new home, old colors, same Arsenal
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I think Martin has actually stated that he's never going to show whether any of the gods are real.
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Sep 13, 2011 00:06
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What about the Brown God of the Autumn, the Worm of Decay
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Sep 13, 2011 00:07
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/58550/ New A Game of Thrones game called Genesis. It looks pretty old school RTS style thing. I should watch the videos though. Stay Safe fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Sep 13, 2011 |
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Sep 13, 2011 00:24
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pimpslap posted:Why even assume that any of the gods mentioned in the book are real? Isn't it reasonable that magic exists in the world and therefore humans created gods to explain the magic? There seems to be quite a bit of agnosticism, ambivalence, or outright hostility from various characters to all of the religions in the books. Just saying...
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Sep 13, 2011 00:41
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Quantify! posted:Replace "god" with "the forces that control how magic is used". All of what I wrote still applies. Since the characters believe in gods, I write as if they're real. We don't know based on what we've read if they really exist or not. Someone a while back posted a theory that the maesters were trying to rid the world of magic. Part of the plan was to introduce the Seven to replace the other gods. The Seven have a face to appeal to everyone but haven't shown any power yet that I can think of. Whether any gods are actual deities or their "power" derives from a belief in their power/rituals doesn't matter. Killing off the dragons may or may not be part of that. Dead Man Posting posted:http://store.steampowered.com/app/58550/ I always thought that a Total War-style GoT game would be awesome. The whole world building, sneaky diplomacy would fit so well.
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Sep 13, 2011 01:24
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Doobie Keebler posted:Someone a while back posted a theory that the maesters were trying to rid the world of magic. Part of the plan was to introduce the Seven to replace the other gods. The Seven have a face to appeal to everyone but haven't shown any power yet that I can think of. Whether any gods are actual deities or their "power" derives from a belief in their power/rituals doesn't matter. Killing off the dragons may or may not be part of that. However, it's believable that the Maesters promoted the Faith to further their goals. The Targaryens converted to the Faith, and kept their dragons chained, and eventually both dragons and Targaryens almost died out. Part of the problem with Aegon is that he's been instructed in the Faith (and probably actually believes), but Dany is far more likely to follow the red god. And we've seen that the red god has true power.
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Sep 13, 2011 01:40
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Doobie Keebler posted:I always thought that a Total War-style GoT game would be awesome. The whole world building, sneaky diplomacy would fit so well. It's been a while in the making, but this Medieval 2 mod might actually see the light of day. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=721
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Sep 13, 2011 01:58
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