|
Shindragon posted:Probably my biggest beef with complains is how far some go with insulting the game or developer. Calling them a hack, or a loser. I kinda feel like you need someone to just metaphorically poo poo on your heart at least once. It may suck for a while, but once you rebound from it you'll be a lot better off. Also applicable, Gob punching you after insulting your game. So the next time its better.
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 21:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 07:54 |
|
|
Monster w21 Faces posted:Yeah I'm @NeilCastle (can't remember if I posted that before) in case anyone cares. I pretty much just post stupid jokes and industry news commentary. Sometimes photos of my cock too. Oh! I totally already follow you. Very interesting!
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 21:27
|
|
|
Shalinor posted:I will go to my deathbed saying that Shadowrun was a freaking awesome shooter. Especially when you remember that the plan was always to take those MP skills and wrap them into a single-player RPG/shooter, just... drat. So sad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 21:54
|
|
|
Shalinor posted:I will go to my deathbed saying that Shadowrun was a freaking awesome shooter. Especially when you remember that the plan was always to take those MP skills and wrap them into a single-player RPG/shooter, just... drat. So sad. You would make some people who I work for very, very happy. I've heard their stories after playing the game myself a long time ago and I totally know how you but also everyone else feels. They certainly tried but things don't always go as you want them to and the consumer base is a harsh and less than forgiving environment.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 22:04
|
|
|
Note Block posted:Oh! I totally already follow you. Very interesting! And you are... 
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 22:40
|
|
|
Akuma posted:and some other great ones in development right now, some licensed, some original (Naked Gun, Warheads, Quest of Legends, and others; see our site.) This is my game. MINE I TELL YOU.  Seriously though I am staying far the gently caress away from reviews when we finish it. :U
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 22:46
|
|
|
Aliginge posted:Seriously though I am staying far the gently caress away from reviews when we finish it. :U "What?! That art is fine, we fought for DAYS to get it to look that way, and I.. EHREHRAHRAHWRAAAGH!  "
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 22:49
|
|
|
Shalinor posted:You say this now, but you'll be searching the internet for reviews and being internet angry at what you find post-release. Guaranteed. Like nerdy moths to a flame.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 23:17
|
|
|
M4rk posted:Just got confirmation that I'm going to be a volunteer at GDC Austin! YES! That's cool. What're you doing at GDC as a volunteer? I never thought to volunteer time for these events but it makes so much sense now. I wonder if it's too late to try..
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 23:54
|
|
|
Welp, got back from my interview at Treyarch. Here's hoping I get hired, I really need a job 
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2011 23:58
|
|
|
I just wanted to share something with you guys: in ten minutes, the rest of the team and I get our limited edition copies of our game and oh jesus I'm so excited. Just opening the damned thing, I suspect, will be an amazing experience. Not many firsts like this, so I'm savoring the hell out of it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 00:54
|
|
|
Bash Ironfist posted:Welp, got back from my interview at Treyarch. Here's hoping I get hired, I really need a job What job were you here for? The multiplayer designer? I heard we had an interview for that today.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 01:51
|
|
|
Shindragon posted:Probably my biggest beef with complains is how far some go with insulting the game or developer. Calling them a hack, or a loser. My favorite is when they call developers lazy, especially over the most trivial of matters. Yep, creating 10 square miles of environment and over 100 characters aint no big thang, but gently caress making sure all the armor doesn't clip slightly through the geometry, I've got TV shows to watch. Every gamer that thinks they know how to fix bad games should spent a week being forced to play a pre-beta game. Most of them have no idea how much horrible stuff they DIDN'T see. Shalinor posted:You say this now, but you'll be searching the internet for reviews and being internet angry at what you find post-release. Guaranteed. Hah, I think I got a thick skin earlier than most. An early game I worked on was reviewed by Yahtzee and he tore it to pieces, and I just spent the whole time nodding along with pretty much everything he said. Honestly I was a little disappointed he wasn't more viscious.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 02:36
|
|
|
Fizzle posted:That's cool. What're you doing at GDC as a volunteer? I never thought to volunteer time for these events but it makes so much sense now. I wonder if it's too late to try.. I've staffed events before and I know I can do anything anyone wants me to do, from setup and breakdown to troubleshooting audio/video messes, camera and computer equipment. Still looking for someone with a room to split.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 02:49
|
|
|
I think part of the trouble is that while nobody intentionally sets out to make a bad game (duh), sometimes the various forces involved in bringing a large project like that together are pulling in different directions and the end result is terrible not because anyone involved was incompetent, but because everyone involved had incompatible ideas on what makes for a good game. This is something that's hard to understand from the player's perspective, since all they see is the finished product, and assume that everything went perfectly during development so this MUST be what they meant to make. Although I haven't been involved in the games industry, it's like this in pretty much every industry built around producing single large projects - movies, TV shows, architecture, whatever. Focus and direction can make or break a project, with very little that the actual designers and artists involved can do about it. That, and gamers tend to be pretty whiny and entitled so they have a habit of acting like buying a game is the equivalent to hiring the devs to cater to their every whim.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 02:49
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:I think part of the trouble is that while nobody intentionally sets out to make a bad game (duh), sometimes the various forces involved in bringing a large project like that together are pulling in different directions and the end result is terrible not because anyone involved was incompetent, but because everyone involved had incompatible ideas on what makes for a good game. Yeah that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Most of the time it's either just inexperience from leads (That defer important descisions to other people, leading to a design-by-comittee scenario), or unrealistic expectations from publishers (Underfunding a project, putting it on an accelerated timeline or constantly demanding changes with the marketplace). The second is the biggest issue these days, since a good project lead will always tell publishers 'no' if unrealistic demands are made, but budgets are so astronomically high these days that a lot of their bargaining power has been neutered. In the end, the people with the money win most arguments.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 03:08
|
|
|
Honestly, it seems like the AAA market is going to become unsustainable in the future if things keep going the way they are - it's taking more and more time and money to develop games with less and less content, because of the increasing demands of cutting edge graphics. It's not like you can counter it just by throwing more people at a project either, since there's a certain critical mass of people involved where adding more doesn't actually speed up your timetable since the additional coordination required cancels out any productivity they might add. Not to mention that the larger you make a project, the more sales you're going to need to recoup your costs. I'm curious what you guys think about all this; do you think there's going to be some kind of big industry collapse like back in the Atari days, or is it possible that the big companies will be able to just keep increasing graphical detail without crashing and burning?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 03:16
|
|
|
Balatron posted:What job were you here for? The multiplayer designer? I heard we had an interview for that today. Hey, Treyarch buddy! Nope, came in for the QA tester position. There's a multiplayer test lead position too, but I don't think they're considering me for that  What do ya do at Treyarch?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 03:18
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:I'm curious what you guys think about all this; do you think there's going to be some kind of big industry collapse like back in the Atari days, or is it possible that the big companies will be able to just keep increasing graphical detail without crashing and burning? Honestly I'm thinking it's going to be more of a split rather than a collapse. My prediction is that a lot of the big publishers are going to move almost exclusively to casual/social games, since that's where the big money is; selling simplistic games to people with simple tastes. On the other side, we'll see a sharp rise of AAA indy developers, funded by alternate revenue streams rather than relying on publishers. The scale of the games will probably drop, but their quality and creativity will rise.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 03:26
|
|
|
I don't think the social games market is an inexhaustible font of revenue. I might be wrong, but I doubt that market can keep growing forever. Susceptibility at the corporate level to.. not "quick cash grabs" but.. blind trend following.. seems to be the core of the issue, to me. Not graphical polish. Graphical polish isn't THAT hard, it's annual/biannual releases of Franchise++ that are hard.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 03:30
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:I don't think the social games market is an inexhaustible font of revenue. I might be wrong, but I doubt that market can keep growing forever. Susceptibility at the corporate level to.. not "quick cash grabs" but.. blind trend following.. seems to be the core of the issue, to me. Not graphical polish. Graphical polish isn't THAT hard, it's annual/biannual releases of Franchise++ that are hard. I think part of the issue with social games is there's a certain market saturation point. It's kind of like MMOs - people don't have the time to play ALL of them so you're going to end up with a few big earners and a lot of flops. Anything that requires continuous interest from people to produce revenue will have that issue.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 03:39
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:I don't think the social games market is an inexhaustible font of revenue. I might be wrong, but I doubt that market can keep growing forever. Bringing up social games was probably a poor choice, but I think the casual market has shown that the importance on graphical polish and deep game mechanics just isn't what a majority of the potential user-base is interested in at the moment, even if the hardcore minority is. Cheaper, simpler, more monetised games are going to be the future for publishers as I see it. quote:Susceptibility at the corporate level to.. not "quick cash grabs" but.. blind trend following.. seems to be the core of the issue, to me. Not graphical polish. You're never going to escape that. Publishers want safe investments, and being creative just isn't safe. If new developers want to set trends rather than follow them, they're going to have to self-fund. edit: Of course, I'm just a dev rather than a publisher (Or even a businessman). I could be wrong, but I really do see publishers being left to their own trend-following, cash-grabbing devices and AAA developers becoming more financially independent. AntiPseudonym fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 03:49
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:That's just alarmism. Perceived graphical detail doesn't grow exponentially. We're already nearing an asymptote of sorts, where every new GPU feature only marginally improves visual quality. What's taking more and more time nowadays is not graphical detail, but the amount of involvement required for highly polished features. Free-running in Assassin's Creed might be easy for the player and feel simple, but it's thousands of man-hours worth of iteration and tools refinement. Flying around in GTA, Saints Row or Just Cause and seeing all that detail at huge distances might be taken for granted, but open world streaming is another huge development sink for a small return. The big wasteful AAA budgets are studios wanting to have their own in-house engines when there already are plenty of alternatives on the market. Engine licensees can still pull off some great things with lower costs than making their own. Hollywood has had budgets ramping up to ridiculous amounts, but those huge productions aren't going away. Price points might change, studios might close doors, but there will always be a market for AAA.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 04:06
|
|
|
Is anyone able to explain the horrendous price differences between the US and the Australian Markets. For example, Bulletstorm is currently $ 19.99 USD on the US steam store. If I go into a store or Steam itself I would have to pay $70 AUD. It makes no sense, especially over a digital service.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 04:12
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:That, and gamers tend to be pretty whiny and entitled so they have a habit of acting like buying a game is the equivalent to hiring the devs to cater to their every whim. MMO players are this times ten. I'm convinced our forums are now actually a detriment to our player retention, because the negative people are the loudest and have chased off everyone else. They're certainly not useful to the dev team any more. As for where games are headed, I think we've reached "good enough" graphically... and in some cases better than they need to be. There are some people who notice, but on the other hand the last time I saw a survey the majority of console players played below 720p. Of course, the problem with "good enough" is that marketing people don't know how to sell steak. They can only sell sizzle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 04:13
|
|
|
Solus posted:Is anyone able to explain the horrendous price differences between the US and the Australian Markets. Exchange rate, GST, lack of proper distribution agreements. And that it seems like retailers/consumers in Australia have decided that $100 dollar new releases are the acceptable pricepoint. And that Australian branches of publishers have to price digital distribution comparably with physical distribution otherwise it's favoritism toward digital delivery. hailthefish fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Sep 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 04:15
|
|
|
Problem is the Australian dollar is stronger than the US dollar right now so it's triply retarded
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 04:37
|
|
|
Solus posted:Is anyone able to explain the horrendous price differences between the US and the Australian Markets. Back long ago, the US dollar was worth about 2 Australian dollars. While the rest of the world slid into parity, games retailers collectively said, "The gibbering masses won't know the difference," and quietly neglected to adjust their prices. Digital distribution services have opted (or been forced) to play along, so the collective poo poo on Aussie gamers continues. As long as you people keep dropping hundos on games, you'll keep getting bent over the till.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 04:38
|
|
|
Solus posted:Problem is the Australian dollar is stronger than the US dollar right now so it's triply retarded As of today 1 US dollar = 0.9670 Australian dollars. There's also 4 things in my post that are not "exchange rate".
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 04:45
|
|
|
Shindragon posted:Probably my biggest beef with complains is how far some go with insulting the game or developer. Calling them a hack, or a loser. Tricky Ed posted:Of course, the problem with "good enough" is that marketing people don't know how to sell steak. They can only sell sizzle. Adraeus fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Sep 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 05:02
|
|
|
That's probably why someone like IceFrog maintains his anonymity. There are a lot of people all over the world in a game like Dota that would go crazy over the smallest of changes. You also never know when someone might be crazy enough to follow through with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 06:15
|
|
|
ttocs7 posted:That's probably why someone like IceFrog maintains his anonymity. There are a lot of people all over the world in a game like Dota that would go crazy over the smallest of changes. You also never know when someone might be crazy enough to follow through with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 06:21
|
|
|
Shalinor posted:You say this now, but you'll be searching the internet for reviews and being internet angry at what you find post-release. Guaranteed. I do this Every. Single. Time. and hate myself for it. Not only post-realese, but anytime a batch of media is sent to the press. What really, really drives me nuts is when actual falsehoods are being said in reviews. This happens mostly in previews though, and the sight of these factual errors being repeated in forums as reasons not to buy the game is a truly gut-wrenching feeling. Ugh. I keep telling myself that I won't do it again, but I just can't. I am completely addicted to F5'ing the google news search for the games I've been involved with, and it sucks. Aramis fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Sep 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 06:27
|
|
|
Aramis posted:I do this Every. Single. Time. and hate myself for it. Not only post-realese, but anytime a batch of media is sent to the press. What really, really drives me nuts is when actual falsehoods are being said in reviews. This happens mostly in previews though, and the sight of these factual errors being repeated in forums as reasons not the buy the game is a truly gut-wrenching feeling. Ugh.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 06:41
|
|
|
Aramis posted:I do this Every. Single. Time. and hate myself for it. Not only post-realese, but anytime a batch of media is sent to the press. What really, really drives me nuts is when actual falsehoods are being said in reviews. This happens mostly in previews though, and the sight of these factual errors being repeated in forums as reasons not to buy the game is a truly gut-wrenching feeling. Ugh. Here's the thing I've noticed. If a group is happy with a game, they tend to stay quiet and play the hell out of that game. If some group of nerd-spergers dislikes a game, they will yell as loud as they can on the internet about it. Just think of it like that. For every anger-inducing post, there are people enjoying the poo poo out of that game! v vedit: Vvv  that's adorable!
Deep Thoreau fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Sep 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 07:00
|
|
|
Bash Ironfist posted:Here's the thing I've noticed. If a group is happy with a game, they tend to stay quiet and play the hell out of that game. If some group of nerd-spergers dislikes a game, they will yell as loud as they can on the internet about it. Except when you make kids games. We got a handwritten letter from a 7 year-old talking about how her and her little brother enjoyed playing our game very much
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 07:05
|
|
|
Bash Ironfist posted:Hey, Treyarch buddy! Nope, came in for the QA tester position. There's a multiplayer test lead position too, but I don't think they're considering me for that I'm a level builder, mostly on the singleplayer side. Good luck with the job! It would be cool to have another goon around.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 07:16
|
|
|
Balatron posted:I'm a level builder, mostly on the singleplayer side. Thanks man! I hope I get it, we can have awkward conversations V V
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 07:18
|
|
|
There's a lot of player hating goin on in the industry. I think that's dangerous.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 07:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 07:54 |
|
|
mutata posted:There's a lot of player hating goin on in the industry. I think that's dangerous. Define 'player hating'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2011 07:30
|
|