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Hey I'm wondering since there was some discussion about the turtle, what's everyone favorite way to attack the turtle? Me it's either the Clock Choke (because it's way too fun and cool while still being relatively easy to pull off) or just go for back control with hooks in and dick around until I get a submission or get off because the guy defends well enough and I don't want to stay on his back doing nothing for the rest of the randori. Also, how do you attack someone who is just laying on his stomach? I have one turn over that works pretty well but that's all. I'm usually unable to do anything good if they are good at defending that particular turn over so I'd like ideas.
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Sep 15, 2011 21:00
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KingColliwog posted:Hey I'm wondering since there was some discussion about the turtle, what's everyone favorite way to attack the turtle? Probably the easiest way to attack the flat turtle that I have come across is basically (keeping in mind that I am a light heavy, and that this only works in a gi): Stand over him with one foot on each side of his belt. Crouch down, grab his belt with both hands. Pick him up by his belt. As space appears under his belly, bring your feet together so you get your hooks Roll to your favorite side. You now have the back with your hooks in.
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Sep 15, 2011 21:08
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if they have flattened themselves out for you already then well, just start fishing for their neck, establish your hooks and driving your hips down to pin them/make it hard to move and breathe. That is like, the single worst position to be stuck in. EDIT: oh, are you talking about Judo? I take it Judo rules don't allow enough time on the ground to let you grind your way to a RNC?
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Sep 15, 2011 21:53
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My favourite way to attack the triangle is to set up a reverse triangle. Kind of like shown in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jakKzlXg180 I have long legs so I can achieve a great deal of control fairly easily. Also, in judo rules it has the advantage that while I'm trying to finish the choke the clock is likely counting down to me winning by pin instead of us being stood up. Turn overs that I would like to get good at because they look cool as hell (to me) Huizinga Roll: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCZ0Be0e4v4&feature=player_detailpage#t=262s Akimoto Roll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma1F1MM6GKo&feature=player_detailpage#t=216s
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Sep 15, 2011 22:00
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I don't know what this choke's called, but it has never failed me when attacking an opponent who's flat on his stomach: 1. Knee ride his lower back (CAREFULLY) 2. Get your hand deep in his lapel like you would for any choke (you might have to chickenwing his defending arm) 3. Grab his pantleg at the ankle with the non-lapel hand 4. Sit on your butt and stretch him out between your hands and knee Tinguinha demonstrates it in one of his Spider Guard DVDs and it is sheer terror. Kashiwazaki also has some really cool turnovers for flattened opponents that involve tying them up in their own gi in mean ways, I think you can find them on youtube As for attacking the Turtle, they're pretty safe if they're all balled up. You've gotta stretch them out a bit first, make some holes in their defense and flatten them out a little, then get behind them so they can't see you and attack when they try to look for you. Belt pickups, seatbelt somersaults, Truck rolls, and even suplexes are all effective.
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Sep 15, 2011 22:02
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Xguard86 posted:that is an important point, the traditional black belt is really just a middle rank. In Japan, they usually award Kendo and Judo BB to kids that are seniors or Juniors in HS. Its really not super impressive. Aim lower. Kendo 1-dan is the first year of JUNIOR high -- 7th grade -- and Judo is whenever you've gotten enough mat time, a year or two after that. Judo is a big more rigorous because you need wins. Kendo 1-dan basically means you can stand, walk, and hit without falling over... and do some kata more or less okay.
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Sep 15, 2011 22:20
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Bohemian Nights posted:Sure! I hope you can see this video, I think you have like 15 free views or something before you need a membership. (I couldn't find anything good on youtube). Thanks! That's kind of what I thought it was, but I wasn't sure which position the top was in before moving to the side.
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Sep 15, 2011 22:21
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Guilty posted:What are the living conditions like and what's the food situation like? The food situation is very, very, very, very important to me You can stay at the gym in a shared bedroom, shared bathroom, or a private king size room, but I wouldn't recommend it because they charge a lot for onsite accommodation, like the cheapest onsite in a shared bedroom/bath with a fan would be nearly as much as staying in a baller apartment a 2 minute walk from the camp with king size bed, AC, fridge, cook top, daily room cleaning, etc. (Keep in mind Sinbi is in the Nai Harn Beach area of Phuket, and this was the monsoon season, so room prices were cheaper than normal.) I stayed in one of those baller rooms for five thousand baht (about $164 U.S.) a week, there are multiple places to stay though within walking distance of the gym, and if you rent a motorbike, there's even more. The longer you stay the better deal you can get at those apartments. As for food, Phuket is highly tourist oriented, there's actually more european food places around than thai food, I got kinda annoyed by it cus I love thai food and it's cheaper than the euro food anyways. It's still cheap regardless, a euro meal will cost you like $5, a thai meal like $3. There's a bunch of good, clean places to eat all around the gym, most of them owned by Thai's who have a euro menu for farang and a thai menu if you want thai. Most of the thai people in the area speak a bit of English too, so if you have food allergies or whatever most of them will understand. A couple guys training never ate Thai food at all the whole time they were there, they couldn't handle any chili whatsoever, the restaurants around there would be more than willing to cater to whatever you need. Also, I didn't rent a motorbike and I kinda regret it. I saw a ton of guys side lined with road rash/bike injuries (and I'm poo poo at riding motorbikes) so I decided against renting one, and my ability to get around was really limited. There's a 7-11, a mini tesco, and a poo poo ton of restaurants all within walking distance, but walking along that rode is dangerous and tiresome after all that training, plus the Thai ho's that stand outside the massage places (there's a million of them in the area, one of the places was literally called Phu Pee Massage lol) will yell at you non-stop and it gets annoying quick. Taxis are never around that area and if they do appear, they're always a complete total rip off in Phuket. I spent two weeks training in Chiang Mai at two different gyms, and two weeks at Sinbi, if I would have done it over again, I would have booked my flight a month earlier, stayed longer, and just stayed the whole two months at Sinbi, and like a week reserved for partying in Bangkok, of course. Sinbi is just really just an amazing gym, really great energy, great people and trainers. Can't say enough good stuff about it. Jerome Louis fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Sep 15, 2011 |
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Sep 15, 2011 22:21
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tarepanda posted:Aim lower. Kendo 1-dan is the first year of JUNIOR high -- 7th grade -- and Judo is whenever you've gotten enough mat time, a year or two after that. Oh, didn't realize it was that young.
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Sep 15, 2011 22:54
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Yeah, getting a black belt in Japan isn't some great accomplishment that means you have to register your hands as deadly weapons, it's a way of saying "you're not a total embarrassment anymore".
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Sep 15, 2011 23:39
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Judo in Korea was the same. I think it was a little less then a year for a black belt if you were going consistently. Anyone who was past middle school took the tests but didn't bother with the other colors, just stuck with the white belt until they got to black.
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Sep 15, 2011 23:56
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Xguard86 posted:Oh, didn't realize it was that young. Totally. It would be younger still if not for the age limit and testing time limits. I was pushed to test for 1-kyuu as soon as I was eligible, then six months after that, pushed for 1-dan, then a year after that, pushed for 2-dan, but I didn't have enough money for the 2-dan shinsa and I had to move.
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Sep 16, 2011 00:28
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Funkameleon posted:Judo in Korea was the same. I think it was a little less then a year for a black belt if you were going consistently. Anyone who was past middle school took the tests but didn't bother with the other colors, just stuck with the white belt until they got to black. Wow thats nuts. At my club, you've gotta have some sort of judo epiphany to even go from orange to green. And they teeter you on the edge of blue for aaaaages before giving you your brown. I remember seeing someone on here say they got their black belt in 2 years and I thought he was full of poo poo, but seems like its much more varied that I initially thought. Also, got myself a job so now I can start judo again after a month or so off. I was going crazy without it.
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Sep 16, 2011 02:50
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Nierbo posted:Wow thats nuts. At my club, you've gotta have some sort of judo epiphany to even go from orange to green. And they teeter you on the edge of blue for aaaaages before giving you your brown. I remember seeing someone on here say they got their black belt in 2 years and I thought he was full of poo poo, but seems like its much more varied that I initially thought. I just checked wikipedia and it looks like a lot of schools in Japan don't even do colored belts. IIRC a lot of that was developed in the west, not Japan.
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Sep 16, 2011 03:08
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Xguard86 posted:if they have flattened themselves out for you already then well, just start fishing for their neck, establish your hooks and driving your hips down to pin them/make it hard to move and breathe. That is like, the single worst position to be stuck in. It indeed does not! And what Comrade suggested might not work either (even if it would be fast) because standing while the fight is in the ground would quickly get a mate called and you'd have to start back on your feets. I'll be looking in what the others have suggested as soon as I have some time, thanks for you input everyone. Nierbo posted:Wow thats nuts. At my club, you've gotta have some sort of judo epiphany to even go from orange to green. And they teeter you on the edge of blue for aaaaages before giving you your brown. I remember seeing someone on here say they got their black belt in 2 years and I thought he was full of poo poo, but seems like its much more varied that I initially thought. That's how it goes at my club too, I'm like 4-5 years in and I'm green. I'm one of those who progressed really fast (other people who got their green at the same time I did had at least 1 year on me). I'm not even thinking about my blue for another year if I go really fast and the teacher likes what he's seeing.
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Sep 16, 2011 03:31
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We just had a kid from our club get chosen for Judo Junior World Championships in South Africa at the end of October and he only got his brown a few weeks ago. I think our instructors like to try and keep us modest. e: well hes not really a kid, hes 17 or 18. Nierbo fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Sep 16, 2011 |
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Sep 16, 2011 03:47
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NovemberMike posted:I just checked wikipedia and it looks like a lot of schools in Japan don't even do colored belts. IIRC a lot of that was developed in the west, not Japan. It was developed by Kano, but he specifically made it up for white people, because he figured foreigners would need a constant illuision of reward or they'd never stick with it.
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Sep 16, 2011 04:06
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In "Kodokan Judo" Kano specifically mentions that a certain student rank wears brown and then it goes to black. I don't know if that was added later by editors or something but my version is explicit on that point. My club only does white/green/brown/black. I guess other clubs do more than that. At about the one yearish mark they gave me a green belt, but it's not really comparable to KC's green given the years difference in practice. As I understand it BJJ belts are more standardized.
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Sep 16, 2011 04:16
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KingColliwog posted:It indeed does not! And what Comrade suggested might not work either (even if it would be fast) because standing while the fight is in the ground would quickly get a mate called and you'd have to start back on your feets. You're allowed to pop up to your feet as long as you're making 'forward progress'. The refs around here are more generous with the ne-waza time these days, not sure what it's like in your area. My understanding is that White/Brown/Black were made by Kano, but then a Japanese guy (whose name I forget) moved to France and started all the other colored belt business, which is why its adaptation has been spotty.
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Sep 16, 2011 04:17
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Ridleys Revenge posted:I don't know what this choke's called, but it has never failed me when attacking an opponent who's flat on his stomach: Sounds like a Bow and Arrow Choke.
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Sep 16, 2011 04:26
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NovemberMike posted:I just checked wikipedia and it looks like a lot of schools in Japan don't even do colored belts. IIRC a lot of that was developed in the west, not Japan. On the other hand, Japan uses kyuu to measure EVERYTHING. You can have kyuu in judo, kendo, or any martial art. You can have kyuu in kanji proficiency. You can have kyuu in English. You can have kyuu in swimming. You get pretty certificates for all of them too.
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Sep 16, 2011 05:00
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drat I'd love to have my swimming black belt. I could buy those Bj Penn shorts with the BB stamped on. Anyone else work in business and chuckle whenever six sigma belt ranks come up? I'm sure it seemed cool at the time to award people green and black belts for business processes, but to me it's so goofy. I tell all the other guys at the gym I'm going to get the six(sigma symbol) embroidered on a black belt and teach them how to roll more efficiently and with fewer errors.
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Sep 16, 2011 14:59
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Hey there thread, long time, no post. After a very long while in Krav Maga I finally took my first test. I had heard you must be in very good physical condition to take them (I was in terrible physical condition when I started with KM) hence my waiting so long to test. I had no idea how intense it would be! I have taken tons of martial art tests in the past. Aikido, Tae Kwan Do and Karate...all for multiple levels. But I have never done anything like this. For anyone interested in KM, or who is taking it but has yet to take a test, this is how it went for the place I go (and I assume it's similar for most Krav Maga Worldwide places). You start out with a two hour "refresher" class that is designed to test your endurance, level of physical fitness and give you a chance to ask any questions you may have before the actual testing begins. Once this brutal two hour beat down is finished the test starts. You're broken out into two person groups, each person being matched with someone about the same size and weight so as to put everyone on as even ground as possible. The groups of two are lined up and a technique is called out. You perform this to the best of your ability with as much effort as you can muster. Once one of the three to five instructors has walked up and down the lines evaluating everyone, you switch and it's the other persons turn to perform. If you're not working hard enough you get someone up in your face telling you to work harder, push through, and just "loving do it!" The testing phase continues for two and a half hours for a total of a four and a half hour test. I also just found out that for each level you test for, you have to complete the previous level. I tested on Wednesday night. The people doing their second level test came back for another four and a half hours on Thursday. I guess this ensures no loss of technique (or validation of masochism). The test is structured in such a way to put your body under a tremendous amount of stress to evaluate how many of the techniques you have committed to your "mid-brain." Basically, if you should be on autopilot doing these things, very little thinking should be involved, merely reacting to the situation. While you must perform every tested technique with 100% effort and competence, a good portion of the test is trying to make you quit. If you quit, you automatically fail. I did not quit. I still hurt quite a lot. I would love to read stories of what testing is like in other Martial Arts. I also know there is a lot of apprehension on here regarding Krav Maga and am curious to know if this lines up with other's experiences regarding any testing they took doing Krav Maga. By contrast, when I took Karate, the first two ranks were simply achieved after class. When the instructor thought you were ready, he would simply call you up after class and give you a stripe. For your third green stripe, it would be a formal test. It was about two hours, but was mostly down time. One person would go up at a time and demonstrate the kata forms necessary to know for that testing. When you're not up demonstrating your kata you simply sit quietly waiting for your turn or everyone to finish. In retrospect, this is a terrible way to determine how effectively you would react in a violent encounter. When you have the energy to still think about what you're doing, it's a lot easier! P.S. I did not ever end up going to that car-jacking seminar at my KM place. I pretty much quit posting in here because I posted a really dick comment in regards to someone being a dick about that. I apologize for my previous reaction, I'll try to keep posting in here as I'd like to provide some perspective into a self defense system that a lot of guys in here who are more into competition fighting don't have a lot of exposure to.
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Sep 16, 2011 16:55
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You say you were doing that poo poo at 100% effort. I thought Krav included poo poo like eye gouges and ball kicks. How does that work at 100% effort.
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Sep 16, 2011 16:59
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KingColliwog posted:It indeed does not! And what Comrade suggested might not work either (even if it would be fast) because standing while the fight is in the ground would quickly get a mate called and you'd have to start back on your feets. Not in this case, you would only get stopped if you disengaged. People stand up as part of Newaza all the time. Picking somebody up by the belt to sink hooks in or otherwise attempt to turn them over is pretty standard in Judo.
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Sep 16, 2011 17:01
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niethan posted:You say you were doing that poo poo at 100% effort. I thought Krav included poo poo like eye gouges and ball kicks. How does that work at 100% effort. They skimp on the eye gouges and crotch kicks are done to a pad (What, you don't practice thai kicks on your partners ribs, do you?) The next test involves more beating-the-gently caress out of your partner. My review seminar was 6 hours with my test being 3 and a half (I was there from 10 to 9:00, with a 1.5 hour break). Some branches of KMW are known for being crazy/dumb rear end poo poo like that. The invite-only black belt test used to involve real knives. Yes, really, they were that dumb. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Sep 16, 2011 |
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Sep 16, 2011 17:05
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niethan posted:You say you were doing that poo poo at 100% effort. I thought Krav included poo poo like eye gouges and ball kicks. How does that work at 100% effort. Those were not tested techniques, so I'm not sure how they're done in tests. The only stop-gap techniques we've really done are pushes to the throat, and those are practiced soft to the throat, then practiced hard with someone holding a tombstone kick shield against the chest/neck so that you can hit the same target area hard once you've found it. I would assume gouges are practiced similarly. You can combine target acquisition with pad work to determine ability to hit a small target along with ability to strike with enough force. Soft targets like eyes/throat/groin don't have to be hit very hard to be extremely effective. CaptainScraps posted:The invite-only black belt test used to involve real knives. Yes, really, they were that dumb. I too have heard of this, and at least three of the instructors have gone through the live blade test. I look forward to observing this someday if the practice is not discontinued by then. I believe all of our level 5/black belt tests are done in California; I think KMW requires a certain number of black belts to observe the test in order to be able to hold one. I'm not 100% sure on this and I may just be thinking of the KMW instructor certification. On a personal aside, my old Aikido school was one of the only ones I had ever heard of that did their black belt tests with live blade tanto and katana.
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Sep 16, 2011 17:15
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We poo poo on KM a lot but that sounds pretty legit.
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Sep 16, 2011 17:31
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Xguard86 posted:We poo poo on KM a lot but that sounds pretty legit. I poo poo on KM a lot too and I practice it. I really like the stand-up fighting they do. Edit: I was in really bad shape after my krav 1 test though. Even with the limited contact, my partner and I were going full-out on each other when we could, encouraged by the instructors. Forearms were one gigantic bruise and I did get cracked in the face a few times, which was a plus-- it meant the times I didn't get punched the techniques worked. I was busted up the entire time I trained at that school and I miss it dearly. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 16, 2011 |
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Sep 16, 2011 17:40
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Winkle-Daddy posted:I too have heard of this, and at least three of the instructors have gone through the live blade test. I look forward to observing this someday if the practice is not discontinued by then. I believe all of our level 5/black belt tests are done in California; I think KMW requires a certain number of black belts to observe the test in order to be able to hold one. I'm not 100% sure on this and I may just be thinking of the KMW instructor certification. There's no way they go live blade at 100% effort. Someone will ALWAYS get cut. Always.
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Sep 16, 2011 17:47
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Omglosser posted:There's no way they go live blade at 100% effort. Someone will ALWAYS get cut. Always. I believe it. From my former gym's website in 2010: quote:Congrats to all the Krav Maga Black Belt candidates for finishing the test: 6 people, 2 hospital visits, 40+ stitches, 1 torn hamstring, multiple broken ribs, 1 injured spleen, one blown ear drum,and 3 bouts of uncontrolled vomiting. [Austin Instructor] received the blown ear drum.
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Sep 16, 2011 17:52
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Omglosser posted:There's no way they go live blade at 100% effort. Someone will ALWAYS get cut. Always. I meant the 100% effort being on the test I was doing, as I can't speak for what I have not observed. I have never observed the live blade test, so I don't know if it's a pre-specified technique that is done (which could be reasonably done with near full force) or if it's a more dynamic sparring set up (which would be a terrible thing to attempt). Perhaps someone who has observed one will chime in? One of the instructors just graduated his black belt test about a month ago, so I'll be sure to ask him about it next week!
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Sep 16, 2011 17:52
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I am actually curious about that...I mean, even if the defending person is HIGHLY skilled, if the attacker is anywhere near their level, the defender will most likely get cut every time. Maybe not severely, but still cut. Else the attacker will. I'm not trying to poo poo on your stuff or anything I was just pointing that out. Knives are loving scary.
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Sep 16, 2011 18:04
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Omglosser posted:I am actually curious about that...I mean, even if the defending person is HIGHLY skilled, if the attacker is anywhere near their level, the defender will most likely get cut every time. Maybe not severely, but still cut. Else the attacker will. I'm not trying to poo poo on your stuff or anything I was just pointing that out. Knives are loving scary. I am not dismissing that at all. I was just saying I can sort of see it working out alright if you know what attack is coming, you have two choices: do the technique to defend or get out of the way. Whereas a sparring type situation it suddenly becomes extremely dumb instead of something that would be more for "show" then anything else. You would think in this modern age of technology we live in they would maybe use a shock blade instead of a live knife edge. I promise I'll ask next week and see what one of the people who have gone through it/observed it have to say about it! The old adage I learned in this very thread "the loser of a knife fight dies on the street, the winner dies on the operating table."
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Sep 16, 2011 18:19
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Winkle-Daddy posted:I meant the 100% effort being on the test I was doing, as I can't speak for what I have not observed. I have never observed the live blade test, so I don't know if it's a pre-specified technique that is done (which could be reasonably done with near full force) or if it's a more dynamic sparring set up (which would be a terrible thing to attempt). Perhaps someone who has observed one will chime in? One of the instructors just graduated his black belt test about a month ago, so I'll be sure to ask him about it next week! The blades are dulled, but they can still cut. Just not as deep as they normally could. I think the attacker can use choose from a number of pre-specified techniques. Ask your instructor if he knows Wayne Miller-- he should, Wayne also took the test last month.
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Sep 16, 2011 18:26
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shock knives are expensive and semi-sharp knives are cheap.
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Sep 16, 2011 18:28
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The tests for ASA instructor certification at my Sambo club (which are brutally difficult, taken over a series of like 4-8 years and can usually only be done by guys with a lot of competition experience) involve knife sparring, which are done with wooden/plastic practice knives. The guy just stands in the middle while several attackers come at them with knife attacks. It's entirely dynamic and it's expected that the defender will get "cut" most of the time, but the purpose is for them to attempt and show competence with a variety of defense techniques. Everyone involved knows knife defense is about giving you a slim chance of surviving a knife attack in the rare situations you can't run away. I don't see how doing a pre-determined defense to a pre-determined attack would show mastery of anything, nor do I really see the point in using a shock or semi-sharp knife other than macho bullshit. It's easy to tell when the knife edge of the practice knife makes contact with the defender. Shock knives are super fun to train with and are awesome for making sparring more exciting, but I don't think they really enhance the quality of your training and technique.
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Sep 16, 2011 19:25
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I don't see how doing a pre-determined defense to a pre-determined attack would show mastery of anything, nor do I really see the point in using a shock or semi-sharp knife other than macho bullshit. It's easy to tell when the knife edge of the practice knife makes contact with the defender. Yeah seriously, it's just 100% stupid to use a real live blade for anything. It just makes the whole KM hardcore testing look like one big macho showoff. It's not hardcore or cool to risk very serious injury during training for no good reason, it's just stupid. Anyway, that test looks like it was cool and training while completely spent certainly is a good thing to do from time to time.
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Sep 16, 2011 20:16
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e: Another post popped up while writing this. By "you're" I am referring to Mechafunkzilla. Yeah, I was just guessing as I had never seen it. Sounds like from what CaptainScraps was saying it's closer to what you're saying, except a dull blade as opposed to plastic/wood. I have a feeling since a lot of KM is about harnessing adrenaline, it's a way to induce a controlled amount of adrenaline into a violent encounter that more closely mirrors what you'd potentially face in a situation no rational person ever wants to find themselves in...ever. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in any MA discipline that would suggest that you should try to defend yourself from a knife attack. This doesn't mean that it's not fun as hell to train with them. One of my favorite warm ups is one person has a plastic knife and the other just tries to keep from getting "cut" for 2 minute rounds. Winkle-Daddy fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Sep 16, 2011 |
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Sep 16, 2011 20:17
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Everyone involved knows knife defense is about giving you a slim chance of surviving a knife attack in the rare situations you can't run away. I don't see how doing a pre-determined defense to a pre-determined attack would show mastery of anything, nor do I really see the point in using a shock or semi-sharp knife other than macho bullshit. It's easy to tell when the knife edge of the practice knife makes contact with the defender. I remember reading an article by a semi-legit self-defense guy (ie. not somebody who teaches rape classes, somebody who spent a lot of time teaching prison guards) and he said that all of the knife defense stuff that's taught is worthless. IIRC his point was that knife defense generally teaches you to fight a defensive knife style that was developed for use with a knife against another weapon. People who are actually attacking an unarmed person with a knife tend to just do this weird aggressive attack. This was what he recommended practicing against if you were serious about defending against knives.
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Sep 16, 2011 20:18
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