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angrylinuxgeek posted:I like the galaxy-spanning cutscene at the end with everyone celebrating. I didn't. First because it reminded me the prequels existed. Second, for the whole saga we travelled with one of the characters, be it Luke or C3P0 or even Vader, and now they're all united in that one forest. Why leave them in their moment of triumph for some reaction shots on Coruscant or Naboo? Third, there's apparently no imperial presence on any of those planets because no one's breaking up the street parties with heavy blaster fire. I guess the rebellion was another War with No Consequences. I do like the new music though.
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Sep 17, 2011 19:38
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Keep the music, gently caress that new cut away ending. Why are they celebrating in Mos Eisley? I'm pretty sure the Underworld owned that place not the Empire.
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Sep 17, 2011 19:47
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I dunno, I guess what they wanted to do was tie the whole series together. Technically, showing a reaction-scene on a place like Coruscant would have been a good way of establishing a connection with the prequel trilogy, since they're the only films that feature Coruscant. Same thing with a young Anakin force-ghost. Sad that it was so weirdly done, though.
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Sep 17, 2011 19:53
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Admiral Goodenough posted:I dunno, I guess what they wanted to do was tie the whole series together. Original Trilogy stands on its own as a complete story. Insertion of Coruscant and Hayden and all that stuff is an attempt to connect the story to another thing it really has nothing to do with. You can't ignore the existence of Coruscant for three movies and then drop it in at the end unless there is an extremely strong connection to it in the overall narrative. And there is none. Nothing that happens in the prequels matters on any dramatically important level, so any scenes that put them into the original story are intruding; existing only for the explicit purpose on connecting them to something that does not matter. Change nub-nub or whatever, but don't change it just so it matches something that it really has nothing to do with on any meaningful level. I guess what I want to say is that there is no "whole series." These are two trilogies forced together by circumstance, that really have nothing to do with each other. Gabriel Grub fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Sep 17, 2011 |
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Sep 17, 2011 21:00
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The fact that we still talk about the trilogies as two separate trilogies, and that they are still available for sale as discrete trilogies as a marketing strategy, underlines the failure of the six episode project. If the drat thing had succeeded on any level, if those newer films were really "Star Wars," no one would even think of buying just half of it on BluRay. It wouldn't even be an option. The existence of an original trilogy set is an oblique admission of failure on Lucas' part. Gabriel Grub fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Sep 17, 2011 |
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Sep 17, 2011 21:10
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SeanBeansShako posted:Why are they celebrating in Mos Eisley? I'm pretty sure the Underworld owned that place not the Empire. Empire was xenophobic, they are xenos. Also now there are no Star Destroyers chasing them for contraband inspections. So more money to be made by smuggling, and they wont get insta-executed for it. Sounds worth celebrating for me.
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Sep 17, 2011 22:29
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Lemmi Caution posted:The fact that we still talk about the trilogies as two separate trilogies, and that they are still available for sale as discrete trilogies as a marketing strategy, underlines the failure of the six episode project. If the drat thing had succeeded on any level, if those newer films were really "Star Wars," no one would even think of buying just half of it on BluRay. It wouldn't even be an option. I don't know man. I know it's anecdotal, but I know several teenagers who prefer the prequels.
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Sep 17, 2011 22:34
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Joe Don Baker posted:I don't know man. I know it's anecdotal, but I know several teenagers who prefer the prequels. Still raises the question about why we divide the films into two halves if they are supposed to be one big thing. Having a big group that prefers one specific set of of three films over another set of three films kind of underlines my point. It's supposed to be one big saga from start to finish, but everything still breaks down I-III and IV-VI. Like, has anyone met a kid who says "I really like Revenge of the Sith and Episode IV, but the rest are just OK." That younger people like the prequels is kind of implicit in the fact that you can buy a prequel only set. Just like that there is a significant group of people who only are interested in the original trilogy. You can't just buy Empire BluRay, because if you like Empire you will almost certainly be willing to pony up for the three disc set. No one in the whole world is going to buy an Empire disc and also pick up Episode I because those are the two movies they want to watch. Gabriel Grub fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Sep 17, 2011 |
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Sep 17, 2011 22:48
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The OT was created as a trilogy, though, and that's how it's structured plot-wise. The six-parts saga only came into being after the PT was greenlit (not counting Jorge's 9 parts scheme), and to counteract the kind of separation-issues you're talking about they had to find some way of joining the two together. I'm not saying that it was a smart move adding those scenes into the OT, but I can definitely understand their thought-process.
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Sep 17, 2011 23:06
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bitterandtwisted posted:Third, there's apparently no imperial presence on any of those planets because no one's breaking up the street parties with heavy blaster fire. I guess the rebellion was another War with No Consequences. The EU (back when it was in good hands) dealt with this in two different sources. Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand (comic) - Ysanne Isard has the people who set off fireworks shot by a firing squad. X-Wing Iron Fist - One of the members of Wraith Squadron describes the carnage in one of the plazas on Coruscant as stormtroopers started firing indiscriminately into the crowd, and felt super guilty because he was the one who hacked into all the video screens and broadcast the DSII exploding.
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Sep 17, 2011 23:08
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Admiral Goodenough posted:The OT was created as a trilogy, though, and that's how it's structured plot-wise. The six-parts saga only came into being after the PT was greenlit (not counting Jorge's 9 parts scheme), and to counteract the kind of separation-issues you're talking about they had to find some way of joining the two together. I'm not saying that it was a smart move adding those scenes into the OT, but I can definitely understand their thought-process. They could have remedied this problem by having the prequels be anything like the originals in any fashion, ie. plot, characterization, continuity, etc. Obviously the originals made a complete trilogy. It's that the prequels do not respect in any way the problem this poses that is the problem. We know Vader falls, so we don't need to told from frame one that he is messed up and scary. Perhaps build a character so heroic that by film three even Star Wars veterans are in suspense about how he will turn. And neophytes will be taken by surprise. As it is how could anyone be surprised that a huge cock like Anakin would go bad? Fortify the original trilogy by showing Vader as such a strong character that new viewers have to wonder how Luke could possibly triumph despite being obviously weaker. And then at the end Luke's moral strength is what wins the day, rather than Force power.
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Sep 17, 2011 23:18
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Yeah, at least half the issues with the PT stems from the fact that they chose to make prequels. Not that sequels wouldn't have posed problems, but prequels have to be more of a bother.
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Sep 17, 2011 23:31
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Return of the Jedi would have been a great template for the prequels. Luke begins with soft power, appeals to mind and humanity, and is forced to turn to violence to resolve the situation. Justified or not he using the Force violently to resolve situations. In the end he is again manipulated into violence and fails. It is only his moral integrity and appeal to humanity that turns failure into victory. The prequels should have followed this arc, but with Vader rejecting morality and humanity (for a compelling reason) at the crucial point. Like whatever bad thing turns Vader dark, the audience should also really be kind of feeling it along with him, even if it's really bad. Choking out your pregnant wife is not going to qualify with most of your audience. Gabriel Grub fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Sep 17, 2011 |
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Sep 17, 2011 23:32
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Lemmi Caution posted:Return of the Jedi would have been a great template for the prequels. Luke begins with soft power, appeals to mind and humanity, and is forced to turn to violence to resolve the situation. Justified or not he using the Force violently to resolve situations. In the end he is again manipulated into violence and fails. It is only his moral integrity and appeal to humanity that turns failure into victory. "It's like poetry; it rhymes." That's what it should have been. It could have made for some really great parallels between both Luke and Vader, but no. Instead we're stuck with some kid who grows up to be an arrogant, whiny, unlikable, moody prick, who decides that because he's killed one jedi, he may as well turn evil on some false hope that it can help save his wife from a vision he has. The same wife who he (like you said) strangles later, simply because he's evil now. Lemmi Caution posted:Like whatever bad thing turns Vader dark, the audience should also really be kind of feeling it along with him, even if it's really bad. Choking out your pregnant wife is not going to qualify with most of your audience. Nor is murdering children. If there had been a decent build up towards him becoming more evil, it could have been more interesting to watch. I'm hesitant to suggest exactly what could be done to improve the PT, because the short answer is, well, everything.
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Sep 17, 2011 23:51
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Pesky Splinter posted:"It's like poetry; it rhymes." Since Lucas is such a fan of "rhyming" he shouldn't have missed the best chance for a rhyme. When the Emperor tells Luke to strike him down, in an iconic scene Luke stares hard at his light saber and throws it down contemptuously. That scene is loving tailor made for a mirroring scene where Vader is faced with a similar choice and chooses revenge. It would be a great example of making a sensible matching scene that new viewers would register as important at Jedi's climax and veteran viewers would understand in the prequels.
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Sep 18, 2011 00:10
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Pesky Splinter posted:Nor is murdering children. If there had been a decent build up towards him becoming more evil, it could have been more interesting to watch. The OT overall implies that he is a man who has crossed a line and at the end was always hoping for a way to go back. But at what point in the prequels did he cross the line?
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Sep 18, 2011 00:45
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Lemmi Caution posted:Since Lucas is such a fan of "rhyming" he shouldn't have missed the best chance for a rhyme. When the Emperor tells Luke to strike him down, in an iconic scene Luke stares hard at his light saber and throws it down contemptuously. That scene is loving tailor made for a mirroring scene where Vader is faced with a similar choice and chooses revenge. It would be a great example of making a sensible matching scene that new viewers would register as important at Jedi's climax and veteran viewers would understand in the prequels. Didn't he do this with Dooku in RotS?
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Sep 18, 2011 00:52
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Armyman25 posted:Didn't he do this with Dooku in RotS? We actually have to care about his choice, and it has to be climactic. Who gives a gently caress about Count Dooku, and ten minutes into the movie at that? Jedi are already established as light saber swinging assassins at this point so his behavior is more uncharacteristic hesitation than an actual moral choice. If Dooku had been wearing a storm trooper helmet Obi Wan would have cut his head off and completely forgot about it two seconds later. Read Palpatine's pleasure at Count Dooku's death as Lucas jizzing his pants that he finally gets to make a "dark" movie about Anakin being dark and bad and poo poo. Gabriel Grub fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Sep 18, 2011 |
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Sep 18, 2011 01:00
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I seriously believe that each one of us could have done a better job with the prequel storyline than Lucas.
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Sep 18, 2011 01:07
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Remember that in the OT every time Jedi face a real threat with violence they get their poo poo rocked. Sith always win with violence and domination. Luke beats Jabba with violence, and it makes him overconfident. As Yoda predicted, he is not hard enough to deal with Vader and the Emperor. Luke takes his stand as a Jedi by REFUSING TO FIGHT. Of course before that he gives in to anger and gives away his sister, gives the Emperor precious time, and gets his poo poo rocked. He had the chance to allow himself to be struck down (rhyming!) but only made things worse by fighting. Lucas is thirty years older, and now thinks fighting and killing everything that looks at you sideways is totally cool and moral. He must be in the Tea Party. Gabriel Grub fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Sep 18, 2011 |
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Sep 18, 2011 01:16
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I seriously believe that each one of us could have done a better job with the prequel storyline than Lucas. Watching the prequels get made and the OT be messed with again is like giving your dog to a friend to walk said dog and you get on a helicopter and as you're taking off for 6 hour trip you look down and you see your dog-walking friend beating the ever-living poo poo out of your dog with a steel pipe.
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Sep 18, 2011 02:19
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I seriously believe that each one of us could have done a better job with the prequel storyline than Lucas. If goons did this it would turn out to be. Episode 1-3 would each be 2 hours long. The entire story would be told through the eyes of Grand Admiral Thrawn as he retold the history of the raise and fall of Anakin Skywalker the way he thinks that it happened. All this would be told to the real Lt Kettch, the genetically enhanced super Ewok.
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Sep 18, 2011 02:22
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Yeah it always bothered me that the Jedi always, ALWAYS, drew first. Jedi draw last, dammit!
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Sep 18, 2011 02:24
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Darth Freddy posted:If goons did this it would turn out to be.
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Sep 18, 2011 02:26
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I think Lucas did strongly above-average as far as making the prequels go compared to a hard-core fan doing the writing (and/or directing). It's just sort of sad to see a beloved franchise with that much money behind it have to stick with above-average. I give it poo poo, too, but I think it's easily possible to go overboard.
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Sep 18, 2011 03:03
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Just starting Episode 1 with Anakin being older and an established pilot somewhere would have led to exponential improvements. It;'s not that hard.
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Sep 18, 2011 03:05
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I think one thing that affected the prequels poorly was the abundance of "we must make toys from this" thinking behind LucasArts. One of the reasons I loved the original trilogy was the spaceships, I was really into them as a child and read everything about them I could get my hands on, played all the X-wing/TIE fighter games to death etc. One of the things that made the prequel trilogy really disjointed for me was the almost complete lack of vehicles that crossed over the films. In the original trilogy we had X-wings in every film, they weren't replaced by a newer model for Empire/Jedi. We had the millenium falcon which was almost a character in its own right the amount of screentime it accumulated. In the prequel trilogy it was a new ship/toy every film. I think the only vehicle that appeared in more than one film was the Trade Federation battleship that appeared in episodes 1 and 3. Oh and the Tantive IV but apparently that was a different ship than the one in episode 4 so I don't even know anymore. I also think I'd of enjoyed episode 3 much more if they had introduced an actual star destroyer or something near the end of the film for the whole order 66 deal, but thats just me wanting something to tie the newer films to the original trilogy. *Also this vvvv Ghosts Love Wubs fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Sep 18, 2011 |
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Sep 18, 2011 03:08
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Just starting Episode 1 with Anakin being older and an established pilot somewhere would have led to exponential improvements. It;'s not that hard. Yeah. Plus I feel that just like all three OT movies deal with the Galactic Civil War, it would have been a good idea to have all three PT movies set during the Clone Wars. We didn't need to see the start of the civil war in the OT, and it was fine; there was no pressing need to show the start of the Clone Wars in the PT. Having all three movies as part of the same conflict would make them feel more unified, as well as meaning there would be no need to have the boring taxation crisis subplot in TPM.
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Sep 18, 2011 03:10
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I seriously believe that each one of us could have done a better job with the prequel storyline than Lucas. Lucas probably could have done a better job than Lucas, if he had stuck to his vague original plan and started Episode I with an adult Anakin. He severely wrote himself into a corner the instant he made the change to a kid protagonist. Not only does that throw the OT timeline totally out of whack (Obi-Wan is in his 50s when he meets Luke?), he runs out of screen time to tell the story and has to resort to horrible filmmaking decisions like killing off the Jedi in a 4-minute montage.
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Sep 18, 2011 03:10
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angrylinuxgeek posted:man the new TPM Yoda looks good If only they could have fixed Ewan McGregor's (and to a lesser degree, Jake Lloyd's) awful wig used in the pickups. And more seriously, still the unfixed shot of Obi-Wan's flipped braid on Tattooine.  I haven't seen TPM from start to finish in a long time (despite the endless Spike showings). It was a great experience on my 55" screen in Blu-ray and I enjoyed it as much as ever have. I remember walking out of my first showing barely able to hold back shouting "Awesome!" while everybody else seemed to be in a daze waiting for someone else to tell them what to think.
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Sep 18, 2011 03:16
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I seriously believe that each one of us could have done a better job with the prequel storyline than Lucas. I would replace the "Help me obiwan" video from ANH with 2 girls 1 cup.
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Sep 18, 2011 03:20
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Baby Arm Balloon posted:I also think I'd of enjoyed episode 3 much more if they had introduced an actual star destroyer or something near the end of the film for the whole order 66 deal, but thats just me wanting something to tie the newer films to the original trilogy.
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Sep 18, 2011 03:33
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Shifter posted:So that whole thing where a young Tarkin is bustling up to Vader and Palpatine at the very end -overlooking the building of a Death Star on a a deck quite like the ESB version of what a Star Destroyer is meant to look like... that didn't do the job for you? Not really I'm afraid. I know exactly what you mean and it was kinda nice to see, but it wasnt quite what I would of liked in terms of nods to the original trilogy ship-wise
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Sep 18, 2011 04:25
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The deleted scenes are pretty rad, guys. I really wish they'd kept the sandstorm bit in simply because the visuals are so striking and it adds some character to Tatooine beyond just sand dunes. Also, the Wampa attack on the base was ridiculously hokey looking. I knew the Wampa suits were supposed to be pretty bad but it looked more like a poorly made halloween costume than anything that would be in a feature film followup to a blockbuster. Even the shot where it was just the Wampa arm grabbing a snowtrooper wouldn't have been enough. I really liked seeing some of the slower moments, too, such as Han and Leia's more romantic kiss or everyone worrying about Luke in the bacta tank. They wouldn't have worked in the film as-is, but it really made me feel like these people were friends rather than just fellow adventurers. And being able to see the full version of Luke building his lightsabre along with the matte painting and such was pretty great since I assumed it was cut before it would have been put together. For those of us without the Blu-Rays io9 collected some and that same user uploaded a bunch more. I'm not sure if that's all of them or not. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Sep 18, 2011 |
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Sep 18, 2011 04:56
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feedmyleg posted:For those of us without the Blu-Rays io9 collected some and that same user uploaded a bunch more. I'm not sure if that's all of them or not.
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Sep 18, 2011 05:30
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Just finished the prequel trilogy off the blu rays (so pretty) and I have to say out of all three movies the only worthwhile bits are Jimmy Smits, the awesome lizard Obi Wan rides in RotS, and Annikin getting whats coming to him scene. That's it and that really depresses me.
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Sep 18, 2011 05:34
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My wife loved that lizard. It just seems so happy to be doing whatever the gently caress it's doing.
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Sep 18, 2011 05:40
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Phylodox posted:My wife loved that lizard. It just seems so happy to be doing whatever the gently caress it's doing. drat skippy! I'd watch a movie about that lizard before I watch the prequels again. O well at least I have OT to watch now and never take those three blu rays out again.
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Sep 18, 2011 05:44
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ZeeToo posted:I think Lucas did strongly above-average as far as making the prequels go compared to a hard-core fan doing the writing (and/or directing). Oh my, no. If he had written these for a screenwriting class he would have been lucky to get away with a B-, considering how he ignores every basic tenet of how to write dialogue, story, and so on.
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Sep 18, 2011 07:56
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Lemmi Caution posted:The prequels should have followed this arc, but with Vader rejecting morality and humanity (for a compelling reason) at the crucial point. Vader/Anakin seems so reckless throughout the prequels and so restrained in the OT (for the most part), I wouldn't have even been opposed for him very early on in his life as a Jedi to have let his recklessness and ego cause something terrible to happen to SOMEONE ELSE and we have to experience it with him throughout the trilogy. To stop this from ever happening again, he becomes colder throughout the films, more focused on order, less compassionate. In a way, he becomes the Jedi of the prequels: Emotionless, detached, joyless, devoid of warmth in his personality.
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Sep 18, 2011 07:58
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