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I am not a striker but I've been around enough martial artists and read enough discussions to know that no one actually knows which method is better with any degree of certainty. Some PhD candidate needs to do a thesis study to finally resolve the debate.
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Sep 19, 2011 22:12
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Thanks for the shoe writeup Ligur. I find savate really interesting lately.
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Sep 20, 2011 00:58
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Xguard86 posted:Some PhD candidate needs to do a thesis study to finally resolve the debate. smart people want boxing banned entirely
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Sep 20, 2011 02:06
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Grappling>Striking 
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Sep 20, 2011 02:20
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kimbo305 posted:There's a right way to jab and a wrong way. There's a million wrong ways to learn it, and only one right way. I get where you're coming from, but I think he's talking about about something where there are different variations for different purposes. The judo scarf hold is better than the BJJ scarf hold if you want to pin somebody in place, and it's harder to escape from, but the BJJ scarf hold is better if you want to submit somebody. Rolling BJJ breakfalls keep you more mobile but a Judo breakfall takes a lot more impact out of a throw, that kinda thing. I'm awful at Judo so I could have details wrong, but you get the idea.
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Sep 20, 2011 03:37
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I get where you're coming from, but I think he's talking about about something where there are different variations for different purposes. The judo scarf hold is better than the BJJ scarf hold if you want to pin somebody in place, and it's harder to escape from, but the BJJ scarf hold is better if you want to submit somebody. Rolling BJJ breakfalls keep you more mobile but a Judo breakfall takes a lot more impact out of a throw, that kinda thing. I'm awful at Judo so I could have details wrong, but you get the idea. I agree. Is the underhand jab considered an actual jab? It's my go to for the lead hand and for some reason is a lot more difficult to parry. EDIT: And even though it might not be completely correct, throwing the jab with your fist at other strange angles is just another way to confuse your opponent's ingrained "parry->jab/parry->right" combos. Fontoyn fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 03:47
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I get where you're coming from, but I think he's talking about about something where there are different variations for different purposes. The judo scarf hold is better than the BJJ scarf hold if you want to pin somebody in place, and it's harder to escape from, but the BJJ scarf hold is better if you want to submit somebody. Rolling BJJ breakfalls keep you more mobile but a Judo breakfall takes a lot more impact out of a throw, that kinda thing. I'm awful at Judo so I could have details wrong, but you get the idea. I wasn't aware that there were two different ways to breakfall..I was always taught by every instructor the same way.
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Sep 20, 2011 03:49
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Speaking of breakfalls what is the verdict on throws that don't allow uki to have an arm to breakfall? Throws like in this video. This is the only video I found remotely similar to what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoqoIwe4QB4&feature=player_detailpage#t=277s I've never done this particular throw but I have been been catching people in a grip where both of their arms are tied up like this and throwing people from it.
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Sep 20, 2011 04:07
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Office Sheep posted:Speaking of breakfalls what is the verdict on throws that don't allow uki to have an arm to breakfall? Throws like in this video. This is the only video I found remotely similar to what I'm talking about. What do you mean what's the verdict? It must suck to fall from a throw like this, but it's certainly legal and I'm definitely going to try it in randori. I guess just don't slam your friends too hard with it
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Sep 20, 2011 04:37
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Office Sheep posted:Speaking of breakfalls what is the verdict on throws that don't allow uki to have an arm to breakfall? Throws like in this video. This is the only video I found remotely similar to what I'm talking about. You suck it up and take the fall? I really don't know what else to say. I let my girlfriend ippon me onto the hard ground and my arm didn't really help THAT much, anyway. A class I quit going to used to make us gently throw one another and do breakfalls onto a 4" mat. It was really annoying. "Remember to breakfall!" I was just like "for what? He's setting me down like a baby." I even jumped up and did a straight backfall onto the normal floor to proof my point but having the wind knocked out of me didn't help my cause much.
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Sep 20, 2011 04:46
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Office Sheep posted:Speaking of breakfalls what is the verdict on throws that don't allow uki to have an arm to breakfall? Throws like in this video. This is the only video I found remotely similar to what I'm talking about. Personally I don't have a problem with it as long as the guy doesn't land on his head and you don't break his arm or rip his shoulder out. I can't say for others but for me slapping during for a breakfall does very little to dissipate any force. Personally I think the whole reason it is done is to make sure you avoid landing on and breaking your arm, shoulder, etc... Senor P. fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 04:50
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Omglosser posted:You suck it up and take the fall? I really don't know what else to say. I let my girlfriend ippon me onto the hard ground and my arm didn't really help THAT much, anyway. STFU and do what your instructor tells you. Breakfalls are really important to learn to ALWAYS incorporate in your routine. When he's practicing throwing, you're practicing being thrown the right way so you can recover quickly and know where you are before that ADD Judoka is trying to wrench your arm off with his explosive power.
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Sep 20, 2011 10:34
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Jerome Louis posted:Sinbi is awesome, it was by far my favorite gym to train at out of the three that I tried. The training is way more structured than the other Thai gyms that I trained at, and every trainer knows their poo poo. It's just really well run and clean, and the area it's in is decent. Next time I go back I'm not really going to bother with any other gyms, Sinbi had everything I was looking for. What were the other gyms you tried? Im going to thailand in a little while and was just going to wing it for finding a gym but Ive heard good things about Sinbi from a bunch of people edit!!!! nevermind you answered this already thanks manyak fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 14:38
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Omglosser posted:I wasn't aware that there were two different ways to breakfall..I was always taught by every instructor the same way. It's more like "everyone who does BJJ is breakfalling wrong", I think. There's a section on it in Guerilla Jiu-jitsu, the Dave Camarillo book. I don't have it handy. I'm not an authority on this or anything, Thoguh might want to weigh in on it. I think the legs aren't far enough apart? It'll absorb some impact but it could absorb a lot more. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 14:58
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Office Sheep posted:Speaking of breakfalls what is the verdict on throws that don't allow uki to have an arm to breakfall? Throws like in this video. This is the only video I found remotely similar to what I'm talking about. A fall like that sucks, but you can break a lot of the force by slapping with your leg. Have you ever done Hapkido/Akido type airfalls? That's a good way to get used to slapping with your leg in addition to your arm. Omglosser posted:You suck it up and take the fall? I really don't know what else to say. I let my girlfriend ippon me onto the hard ground and my arm didn't really help THAT much, anyway. Breakfalling is hugely important for Judo. Anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. As far as making sure people do breakfalls even when using an extra mat, the point of that is to get people comfortable with taking falls (or to get a lot of throws in during competition prep). It is still important to breakfall here because you have to develop the habit every time you fall until a breakfall is pure muscle memory. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 15:09
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I understand all that about muscle memory and the importance of practicing diligently but by that point I had already fallen thousands of times and I could feel whilst being thrown whether or not I needed to breakfall based on the speed and intensity of the throw. In other words, in randori I was breakfalling without thinking about it, but in practice a lot of times I felt I didn't need to. It was also frustrating because I felt like I was being babied for no reason. I would get extremely painful submissions put on me repeatedly for demonstration and never complain, but if I were to be thrown in any way besides being set down like a baby it was all "omigosh are you okay?!" I was probably just arrogant, though, being experienced in judo in a non-judo class.
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Sep 20, 2011 15:27
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Omglosser posted:I understand all that about muscle memory and the importance of practicing diligently but by that point I had already fallen thousands of times and I could feel whilst being thrown whether or not I needed to breakfall based on the speed and intensity of the throw. In other words, in randori I was breakfalling without thinking about it, but in practice a lot of times I felt I didn't need to. It was also frustrating because I felt like I was being babied for no reason. I would get extremely painful submissions put on me repeatedly for demonstration and never complain, but if I were to be thrown in any way besides being set down like a baby it was all "omigosh are you okay?!" I was probably just arrogant, though, being experienced in judo in a non-judo class. It's almost as if part of being an upper rank is setting an example for new people.
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Sep 20, 2011 15:36
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Omglosser posted:You suck it up and take the fall? I really don't know what else to say. I let my girlfriend ippon me onto the hard ground and my arm didn't really help THAT much, anyway. Sounds like you need to practice your breakfalls.
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Sep 20, 2011 16:02
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mewse posted:smart people want boxing banned entirely I actually heard an argument from a doctor about going back to bare-knuckle boxing. We have a pretty good idea of how to fix cuts and broken bones, but gloves let you punch the head and we have no idea what to do about that.
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Sep 20, 2011 16:32
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NovemberMike posted:I actually heard an argument from a doctor about going back to bare-knuckle boxing. We have a pretty good idea of how to fix cuts and broken bones, but gloves let you punch the head and we have no idea what to do about that. Yeah we do, keep your hands up, lazy boy 
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Sep 20, 2011 17:51
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I may be wrong, but doesn't punching the head without protection of some sort just break your hand?
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Sep 20, 2011 20:12
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swmmrmanshen posted:I may be wrong, but doesn't punching the head without protection of some sort just break your hand? yes, that is why bareknuckle boxing died, it shortened the careers of the fighters
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Sep 20, 2011 20:35
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Senor P. posted:Personally I don't have a problem with it as long as the guy doesn't land on his head and you don't break his arm or rip his shoulder out. There's a lot I want to comment on but I don't have a ton of time: Slapping does help you position your body correctly to maximize the surface area absorbing impact, but it also employs a neat physics trick by pulling the majority of the impact into your slapping hand (as long as it connects at the same time as the rest of your body, the slapping hand gets the impact because it's traveling faster than the rest of you). Ukemi alone is an activity that one could spend a lifetime trying to master, so if all the aspects aren't coming together for you don't worry about it cause it takes time and practice, but also don't dismiss them as unnecessary.
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Sep 20, 2011 22:00
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The only directly useful skill I got from Aikido was taking my break falls to a higher level than I ever really knew existed. It's true that a lot of people just kind of learn the white belt 101 of falling but don't advance to the higher levels. Kind of a lost art.
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Sep 20, 2011 22:23
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I took almost a month off training due to a combination of exams and the flu. I wanted to train while I was sick but I didn't want to be that guy who infected an entire gym. After just two sessions back I am currently dealing with: a sore neck as a result of an arm triangle, a pulled groin as a result of a guard pass, a sore shoulder as a result of gently caress knows what, two toes that feel like they were dislocated but weren't and a calf muscle that seems to have forgotten training ended almost 24 hours ago now and the cramp it had yesterday can go away now. I wish I knew why this poo poo is so addictive, because I can't wait to go back on Friday 
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Sep 20, 2011 23:24
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swmmrmanshen posted:I may be wrong, but doesn't punching the head without protection of some sort just break your hand? That's why you stop having head injuries. The hands tend to break first.
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Sep 21, 2011 01:48
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NovemberMike posted:That's why you stop having head injuries. The hands tend to break first. Exactly this. Nobody is going to completely destroy their hands in a fight. The force will go down because punching hard will hurt (similar to running and stomping without shoes, the argument for barefoot/vibram running) and the chances will go down because people will want to punch soft things instead of hard things.
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Sep 21, 2011 04:34
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bareknuckle boxing is stupid, and dumb
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Sep 21, 2011 05:06
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mewse posted:bareknuckle boxing is stupid, and dumb Agreed. There should only be bareelbow elbowing and bareheaded headbutting when you don't have your gloves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNP4i195Of0&list=PL792CA3BA3AE18AB2&index=26#t=44s
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Sep 21, 2011 06:03
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This is a really good video by a BJJ black belt discussing some issues with girls and the jits. http://bjjhacks.com/2011/09/adapting-bjj-for-women-hillary-williams/
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Sep 21, 2011 07:45
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Re: bareknuckle boxing. I recently finished watching this, Knuckle, a documentary about Irish bareknuckle boxers followed for 12 years. I'm not really sure what I make of it. Most of the guys use wraps though but all in all there are few destroyed hands. I didn't see many straight power punches and the straight is mostly used to establish range and pepper your enemy & for the kill the combatants favour looping punches to the jaw or the side of the head and the good ones wear you down with plentiful body shots. A lot of cuts and stitches for everyone, except the guy who never loses (James Quinn McDonagh) who somehow walks out seemingly unscathed even after a two hour fight, apart from his left hand which looks like a horse gave it a good stomp. The bareknuckle style changes the dynamics of a boxing match completely of course. No rounds, so you only get to rest by hugging your opponent or falling on your rear end. A 15-20 minute fight is considered a short one (the two hour fight was considered rather long). Compare that to modern boxing or MMA! Of course the action is less frenetic with short moments of full speed action followed by a break-up, people talking ("have ye had enough?" or "won't ye shake hands") some stalking and then another quick clash. Also the first trailer is crap, this one's better. edit: Here's James Quinn McDonagh beating up Paddy Joyce. Watch where and how he aims with his punch repertoire! Ligur fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Sep 21, 2011 |
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Sep 21, 2011 12:27
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Ligur posted:Re: bareknuckle boxing. I recently finished watching this, Knuckle, a documentary about Irish bareknuckle boxers followed for 12 years. I'm not really sure what I make of it. Most of the guys use wraps though but all in all there are few destroyed hands. I didn't see many straight power punches and the straight is mostly used to establish range and pepper your enemy & the kill the combatants favour looping punches to the jaw or the side of the head and the good ones wear you down with plentiful body shots. A lot of cuts and stitches for everyone, except the guy who never loses (James Quinn McDonagh) who somehow walks out seemingly unscathed even after a two hour fight, apart from his left hand which looks like a horse gave it a good stomp.
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Sep 21, 2011 13:26
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niethan posted:I feel like this is what Nick Diaz should be doing with his life. Next to a bunch of liquored up irish boxers he wouldn't even be the craziest guy in the room anymore.
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Sep 21, 2011 15:35
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Xguard86 posted:Next to a bunch of liquored up irish boxers he wouldn't even be the craziest guy in the room anymore. I'm assuming in bareknuckle boxing there are no regulations about smoking weed so he would literally be a normal well-adjusted guy by any standard.
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Sep 21, 2011 16:15
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niethan posted:I'm assuming in bareknuckle boxing there are no regulations about smoking weed so he would literally be a normal well-adjusted guy by any standard. there also seems to be a lot of money (for him; 60k!!) changing hands, and most of it is cash. Sounds like perfect for Nick Diaz. Also no pussy rear end rounds! Syphilis Fish fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 21, 2011 |
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Sep 21, 2011 17:25
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Diaz also isn't a power puncher and could probably talk enough incoherent poo poo to make a bunch of pikies back down.
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Sep 21, 2011 18:26
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"'ave ye 'ad enough Nick? Won't ye shake 'ands?" "Ain't no bitch homey."
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Sep 21, 2011 18:30
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Urgh, I am getting frustrated. Before I lived in a place where I could do BJJ as much as I wanted, and it was 20 minutes walk from my house. Now I've moved city (and country) to Cape Town, and I can't find a judo or bjj place anywhere near my house. The one promising lead near my work was a BJJ gym. I went there and the owner told me 'Cool, you should totally come by. Oh by the way, our minimum contract is one year.' I highly doubt I will be in this city in 4 months time, never mind a year, so that kills that option dead, even if I was willing to risk dodgy public transport at night to get home. I can definitely train from next year, but I strongly suspect the interim will unravel my hard earned skills, and in any case it's going to be very frustrating not training for that long. When I mentioned to my room mate that I did judo she said  "Oh hey, there's a kung fu place nearby, you should go and check it out!"My initial thought was  , but at least it will keep me sort of fit for next year, even if my actual skills start going down the tubes.
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Sep 21, 2011 18:36
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ManicParroT posted:I highly doubt I will be in this city in 4 months time, never mind a year, so that kills that option dead, even if I was willing to risk dodgy public transport at night to get home.
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Sep 21, 2011 18:40
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niethan posted:Have you tried explaining the situation to them? Yeah I'd throw myself on their mercy as a foreigner, you're away from your home gym and you want to keep developing, maybe they can bend the rules and let you do a 6 month term
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Sep 21, 2011 18:51
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