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update: M12 draft still the best 
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Sep 21, 2011 02:13
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 17:24 |
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I'm not even sure what sort of power level would be required for a card to get banned in Limited. It would have to be a common or uncommon that just says "you win the game" and even then I don't think it would get banned. Sets are designed for Limited, so they're pretty good about not making anything too good at those rarities. Certain effects that used to be on commons, such as pinging (last common with that was Vithian Stinger) or cheap power-raising equipment (loving Bonesplitter) have been moved to uncommon. I wouldn't be surprised to see tap effects get moved completely to uncommon at some point since they are usually really really powerful in Limited.
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Sep 21, 2011 02:15
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Hey! You! Come play Goonleague 3.5! We've got two weeks worth of delicious M12 sealed with your name on it! Do it because of the exclamation marks! It's in this thread!
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Sep 21, 2011 02:22
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Ok so for anyone doing a draft this weekend, I can almost guarantee that Stitcher's Apprentice is the best common in the set. It comboes with everything.
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Sep 21, 2011 02:42
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I'll be doing two sealed deck events and one draft. Unless I get cut very very hard I will likely be W/G Humans or W/U Spirits. Doing everything I can to stay out of red aside from splashing if I get a Devil's Play.
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Sep 21, 2011 02:49
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Could someone critique this build? I have too many playables!  
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Sep 21, 2011 06:17
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Seems perfect.
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Sep 21, 2011 08:04
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Only change I'd make is Turn to Frog -> Titanic Growth. Turn to Frog maybe reduces your enemy's guy by ~2-3, and only if that guy is a big guy. Titanic Growth always increases yours by 4. No contest.
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Sep 21, 2011 08:04
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I'd say that the "loses all abilities" part of Frog is more important than "becomes 1/1" myself.
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Sep 21, 2011 08:46
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Trip report: lost in round 1 because I somehow managed to think a Forest was an Island, and hence kept a two-Forest, no-Island, two-Looter hand. 
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Sep 21, 2011 09:19
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Drox posted:I'd say that the "loses all abilities" part of Frog is more important than "becomes 1/1" myself. Won a game using Turn to Frog on an Archon of Justice.
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Sep 21, 2011 13:31
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Won a game turning a zombie to a frog to blow up Call to Grave. Would still run Titanic Growth unless an earlier game showed why I need to sideboard it in.
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Sep 21, 2011 16:18
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The only situation where Turn to Frog doesn't do what Titanic Growth does but better is when you need to hit the opponent in the face for 2 more damage. Every other instance of combat trickery makes Turn to Frog better + a variety of preventative measures against creatures out of combat. And I don't even like Turn to Frog.
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Sep 21, 2011 16:23
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zerox147o posted:The only situation where Turn to Frog doesn't do what Titanic Growth does but better is when you need to hit the opponent in the face for 2 more damage. Every other instance of combat trickery makes Turn to Frog better + a variety of preventative measures against creatures out of combat. And I don't even like Turn to Frog. Or you have a bunch of 1 toughness dudes. I like Turn to Frog as a one of in a deck - it's nice to have a combat trick that actually gets rid of the creature in blue (Unsummon is nice, but the creature comes back).
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Sep 21, 2011 16:37
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zerox147o posted:The only situation where Turn to Frog doesn't do what Titanic Growth does but better is when you need to hit the opponent in the face for 2 more damage. Or if your opponent's dude also has Titanic Growth or another p/t boosting effect, or your opponent's dude has some +1/+1 counters from bloodthirst, or you have a Coral Merfolk or Merfolk Looter or something else with 1 toughness, or tons of other situations.
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Sep 21, 2011 19:50
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DontMockMySmock posted:Or if your opponent's dude also has Titanic Growth or another p/t boosting effect, or your opponent's dude has some +1/+1 counters from bloodthirst Welp I misread this.
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Sep 21, 2011 19:55
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DontMockMySmock posted:Or if your opponent's dude also has Titanic Growth or another p/t boosting effect, or your opponent's dude has some +1/+1 counters from bloodthirst, or you have a Coral Merfolk or Merfolk Looter or something else with 1 toughness, or tons of other situations. Bloodthirst is a mixed bag. Blood Ogre loses First Strike, but will stay 2/2. Duskhunter will lose flying but stay 2/2. Carnage Wurm will lose trample and become a 4/4 instead of 9/9. Lurking Croc loses Islandwalk, Stormlord loses his blocking claus, Outcasts lose lifelink. Turn to Frog will still combat trick almost every bloodthirster, though it may only get a 0-1 p/t reduction on some of them. Situational differences. If they're Titanic Growthing in response to your Titanic Growth, you're just 1-for-1'ing? Again, functionally identical outcomes. Okay, losing a 1 toughness creature will conditionally make Turn to Frog negative card advantage. We are up to a whole 2 cases where you'd want a Titanic Growth in your hand instead of Turn to Frog. Which has a ton of utility outside combat. Nephzinho fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Sep 21, 2011 |
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Sep 21, 2011 20:12
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zerox147o posted:If they're Titanic Growthing in response to your Titanic Growth, you're just 1-for-1'ing? Again, functionally identical outcomes. Not if you and your opponent have creatures of the same size, and that size is less than 5/5. Then you get 2-for-1'd with TtF, and 2-for-2 with TG. Also, I think you're massively overstating its usefulness outside of combat, especially compared to Titanic Growth's usefulness in doing four damage to the opponent.
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Sep 21, 2011 20:19
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Speaking of which, if someone has a troublesome ability on a creature, can you effectively counter it by Frogging it in response? How does that work? By the time the ability gets resolved, the creature doesn't have it anymore, but does that matter since the ability is already on the stack?
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Sep 21, 2011 20:20
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Drox posted:Speaking of which, if someone has a troublesome ability on a creature, can you effectively counter it by Frogging it in response? How does that work? By the time the ability gets resolved, the creature doesn't have it anymore, but does that matter since the ability is already on the stack? Yeah, that doesn't work, for the reasons you surmise. If you TtF a Looter, they can Loot in response, and if you TtF in response to their Loot, they get it anyway, despite the fact that the source no longer has that ability.
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Sep 21, 2011 20:22
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Drox posted:Speaking of which, if someone has a troublesome ability on a creature, can you effectively counter it by Frogging it in response? How does that work? By the time the ability gets resolved, the creature doesn't have it anymore, but does that matter since the ability is already on the stack? If it is on the stack it will resolve as long as it has a legal target no matter what put it there. DontMockMySmock posted:Not if you and your opponent have creatures of the same size, and that size is less than 5/5. Then you get 2-for-1'd with TtF, and 2-for-2 with TG. I don't think either of them have a place outside of being a 23rd card, though. We're arguing which of 2 bad cards is worse. Both are situational, I just like the one with a broader scope and in a better color. Nephzinho fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Sep 21, 2011 |
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Sep 21, 2011 20:22
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Makes sense. I guess it would be kind of like a player casting a spell and trying to respond by having them discard it. Thanks.
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Sep 21, 2011 20:23
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My LGS holds two-headed giant sealed events once in a while, and the first one I was able to play in was on Saturday. Both my and my friend's partner wound up not being able to go, so we decided to partner up. It was "standard sealed," which meant we got 1 pack of everything currently in standard, so it was a little weird. Our original plan was to open some ridiculous bomb rares and stomp people, but we wound up getting Conundrum Sphinx, Personal Sanctuary, Contested War Zone, Omnath, Xenograft, Blackcleave Cliffs, Conqueror's Pledge, and Hedron Matrix. Luckily our blue was insane and we had a lot of black removal, plus some easily splashable red, so we built GW bears and UBr removal. Here's what I was playing: Aether Adept Sky-Eel School Conundrum Sphinx Spined Thopter Master Thief Quag Vampires Enclave Elite Sea Gate Oracle Sky Ruin Drake Deathmark Negate Vapor Snag Volt Charge Preordain Grim Affliction Last Kiss Burst Lightning Steel Sabotage Divination Domesticate Mind Control Spell Contortion Instill Infection 9 Island 5 Swamp Evolving Wilds Blackcleave Cliffs Friend's deck: Copper Myr Maul Splicer Oran-Rief Recluse Bellowing Tangleworm Kor Outfitter Leonin Skyhunter Turntimber Basilisk Gnarlid Pack Palladium Myr Death-Hood Cobra Vastwood Gorger Kozilek's Predator Suture Priest Blinding Souleater Omnath,Locus of Mana Fledgling Griffin Beast Within Piston Sledge Hedron Matrix Plummet Strandwalker Titanic Growth Conqueror's Pledge Whispersilk Cloak Shrine of Loyal Legions 8 Plains 7 Forest Greypelt Refuge Highlights included proliferating multikicker guys, multikicker guys being unblockable 90% of the time, stealing a Lux Cannon with Master Thief, Whispersilk Cloak on Omnath, triple kicked Spell Contortion on a lethal Sins of the Past, and playing with two Mind Control effects. We battled through the swiss rounds, and split prize packs in top 8 but played for the title (winners of 2hg evens get their names on a plaque on the wall). We wound up winning it all, after feeling like we were totally screwed at various points in every game but the finals. So now I have my name on the plaque, my friend has his up there twice, and we opened a foil Spellskite. It was a pretty good day.
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Sep 21, 2011 21:34
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Here is an almost 23000 word long analysis of the limited format for Innistrad: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mmP-JNjE3EFIsVe9dPHabdy86iklP5r9NQBvQmq9BpY/edit?hl=en_US Don't have much time, hope this helps someone. Enjoy!
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Sep 22, 2011 00:28
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Ultima66 posted:Here is an almost 23000 word long analysis of the limited format for Innistrad: Will read through the rest later, but initially (white/blue/black) I'm thinking that you spend a little too much time comparing INN to other sets without talking about specific INN cards and their strengths/weaknesses/synergies with other commons as opposed to "this color feels strong", "I like this card" without citing the why. Who is drafting this weekend? I'll be holding out for the MTGO events, but would love to hear some trip reports on how things actually play out.
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Sep 22, 2011 15:18
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zerox147o posted:Who is drafting this weekend? I'll be holding out for the MTGO events, but would love to hear some trip reports on how things actually play out. I'll be doing two sealed deck events and one draft. After using online draft simulators I already have a bias for WG WU or GU, we'll see how that plays out. Ultima66 posted:Here is an almost 23000 word long analysis of the limited format for Innistrad: I disagree with your analysis on Doomed Traveler and Unruly Mob. Traveler is a 2 for 1 creature and white has ways of making both spirits and tokens better. Unruly Mob is a lightning rod for your opponents removal, either they waste it on a 1/1 or they can deal with a 4/4 in a few rounds. I completely agree with you about Black, it seems extra lovely. Blue feels like a splash color 90% of the time, but it could be great if you get all the good uncommons. I'm on the fence about red, but I'm biased against playing it as a primary color unless I open some bombs early. I feel that the red creature base is awkward. I think the biggest problems with W/G are going to be the same as they were with R/B in M12, too many other people trying to draft it. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Sep 22, 2011 |
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Sep 22, 2011 16:26
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Ugh, first draft on MTGO; get a pretty decent B/R bloodthirst deck together, win my first game and then just collapse to spirit mantle.dec. Spirit mantle on a hexproof creature seems like such an unstoppable bomb it's almost unfair. I know they have to get out a suitable creature to put it on though, it's just frustrating as hell when both games go T3 Wolf, T4 Spirit Mantle, Lifelink and run away with the game from there while I'm 100% powerless to stop it.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:17
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2MB posted:Ugh, first draft on MTGO; get a pretty decent B/R bloodthirst deck together, win my first game and then just collapse to spirit mantle.dec. Spirit mantle on a hexproof creature seems like such an unstoppable bomb it's almost unfair. I know they have to get out a suitable creature to put it on though, it's just frustrating as hell when both games go T3 Wolf, T4 Spirit Mantle, Lifelink and run away with the game from there while I'm 100% powerless to stop it. In their defense they took a pretty big risk going WG in M12, if you don't get the mantles and the wolves, you pretty much collapse to a stiff breeze.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:18
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GEMorris posted:In their defense they took a pretty big risk going WG in M12, if you don't get the mantles and the wolves, you pretty much collapse to a stiff breeze. Yeah, if they were actually playing Lifelink too that is just asking for trouble when you don't happen to get everything together. I'm blanking, but I don't think there are any "target player sacrifices a creature" effects in M12? Because if not, the only way to deal with a Spirit Mantle'ed Hexproof creature would be Day of Judgment.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:22
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zerox147o posted:Yeah, if they were actually playing Lifelink too that is just asking for trouble when you don't happen to get everything together. On top of having all the wolves and enchantments, his deck was splashing red for... Bonebreaker Giant? It was the only red card I saw from him but he seemed to do fine with his mana despite zero mana fixing cards. Is there anyway I can show my picks to you guys? I feel like I did a decent job with my picks this run, but I'm eager to hear if you guys have any critiques.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:27
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2MB posted:On top of having all the wolves and enchantments, his deck was splashing red for... Bonebreaker Giant? It was the only red card I saw from him but he seemed to do fine with his mana despite zero mana fixing cards. Is there anyway I can show my picks to you guys? I feel like I did a decent job with my picks this run, but I'm eager to hear if you guys have any critiques. Turn on Draft Recording in your MTGO settings, and then go and post it on raredraft.com. Post a link here and a few of us enjoy killing time critiquing.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:28
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zerox147o posted:Yeah, if they were actually playing Lifelink too that is just asking for trouble when you don't happen to get everything together. Smallpox is the only one that comes to mind.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:43
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zerox147o posted:Turn on Draft Recording in your MTGO settings, and then go and post it on raredraft.com. Post a link here and a few of us enjoy killing time critiquing. I'm gonna go ahead and assume it doesn't work retroactively. I'll just have to remember that for the next draft.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:46
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LeafHouse posted:Smallpox is the only one that comes to mind. Call To The Grave as well, but that's it.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:48
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Did another draft that went 90% horribly. http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=2xin4#p1p1 I felt pretty lost throughout this entire draft, not quite sure what to actually take or what archtypes to shoot for. I know I hosed up super hard (fell into the same trap as the guy who beat me last time except I didn't pick up any great creatures) so tell me what I should have been doing. 2MB fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Sep 23, 2011 |
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Sep 23, 2011 01:04
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2MB posted:Did another draft that went 90% horribly. P1: p1 stormfront pegasus is the nuts p3 bear or chasm drake p4 this card is unplayable, take arsonist (to go with fireball) or siege mastodon (to go with pegasus/spirit mantle) p6 mighty leap is a decent trick that can break board stalls a lot. this guy is never making your deck p7-8 you're in green now I guess? proceeding under that assumption p9 raredraft? if you're still in white then slam the elite vanguard p10 this format is all about bears, so grab a bear. you can pick up fat later P2: p1 maybe I overvalue the throne but it seems like a great pick here. elves absolutely commits you to green + you can probably pick up ramp/fixing later kinda skimmed the rest, what did you end up playing? I think there were some ok green cards but not nearly enough to commit to green as hard and as early as you did.
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Sep 23, 2011 01:15
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scribe jones posted:P1: I ended up playing Green fatties with White fliers since I never actually got any decent auras like planned. The P1P9 was mana fixing for fireball, I was working under the assumption that I was making the deck to play more big creatures I guess? I really undervalued the throne and ended up dying to the thing in my last game.
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Sep 23, 2011 01:22
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2MB posted:Did another draft that went 90% horribly. P1P1 Sorin's Thirst and Stormfront Pegasus are the only two first pick options here. P1P3 You don't have strong color commitments yet, if you're going for the strongest card in the pack you want Chasm Drake. P1P4 Arsonist and 2 bears are in this pack, and you take Fog. Fog is a 15th pick. P1P5 You'll almost never play Pride Guardian. Distress, Act of Treason, and Serpent all can find their way into decks. Stopping at this point. You seemingly pick cards at random, you went into green for no reason, and you pass Throne of Empires and Pentavus (Pentavus was at least for a Stingerflinger, but I'd still think about that one). Read up on draft, watch some replays, watch some of LSV's videos.
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Sep 23, 2011 01:32
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zerox147o posted:P1P1 Sorin's Thirst and Stormfront Pegasus are the only two first pick options here. I've watched all of LSV's M12 videos; I guess I just need to play the format more to get a feel for what cards are actually good in play. I usually have an affinity to green so it's not that I'm making completely random picks, just trying to force a color out of mediocre cards I guess. Throne was a card that I flat out undervalued and I didn't really understand the power of Pentavus until I had to fight the drat thing. So in these situations where your getting passed subpar cards in every color, the safest bet is to just take the strictly better cards? At what point do you start to stick to one color?
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Sep 23, 2011 02:00
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2MB posted:Did another draft that went 90% horribly. p2p8 naturalize over stampeding rhino,plummet and rusted sentinel? p2p13 naturalize over plummet? Naturalize sucks, do not take naturalize. p3p4 Giant spider is better than Sacred Wolf, though I guess you did have a spirit mantle. p3p5 auramancer over stampeding? Stampeding rhino is good. Take stampy. In general it is better to take solid splashable cards early and keep an eye out for what colors are open. Forcing a color is not a good idea.
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Sep 23, 2011 04:33
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