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I'm doing a re-read atm and yeah that early Logen ability really slapped me in the face. Likely Joe just realised it was a silly "get out of fights" card and ret-conned it, as it really is bringing a flame-thrower to a sword fight.
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Sep 22, 2011 16:00
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Scrubber posted:
It should be noted that she only survived because she hit her brother's body on the way down, saving her from smashing her head open. She was also in a coma for 12 weeks and probably would have died if not for Shenkt.
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Sep 22, 2011 17:25
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Clinton1011 posted:I'm going to try and find the line about Bedesh but I think Gustrod killed him during their war. (not 100% sure on the spelling of Gustrod) I think you might be wrong on that one, I think you've got who lived and died reversed. I'm doing a re-read so I'll find out at some point I guess. I remember someone had emailed Joe and said his response "played it coy".
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Sep 22, 2011 20:27
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The Gunslinger posted:I think you might be wrong on that one, I think you've got who lived and died reversed. I'm doing a re-read so I'll find out at some point I guess. I remember someone had emailed Joe and said his response "played it coy". I don't think we need to spoiler things from the first trilogy so if you haven't finished it yet don't read past this line. I was wrong, after Juvens killed Glustrod, Bedesh was there on that island to make the spirit hide the stone so Glustrod did not kill Bedesh. But here is a line from Before they are Hanged by Bayaz. Bayaz frowned up at the mighty wreckage. 'With the death of the Maker, the last of the four sons of Euz, the Old Time ended. We are left only with the ruins, and the tombs, and the myths. Little men, kneeling in the long shadows of the past.' I'm running keyword searches for Bedesh in all three of those books to see if I can find mention of what came of him but as someone said Joe has been coy with his answers to questions about what happened to Bedesh. Edit: No mention of him in The Blade Itself or The Last Arguments of Kings, only in Before they are Hanged. In that book the only mention that I can find is that he built an army with Juvens to fight Glustrod and the part about the island. Clinton1011 fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Sep 22, 2011 |
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Sep 22, 2011 21:58
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Trilogy Spoilers continue! In the first book as well Bayaz mentions that Kanedias was the last of the four to die. Then again, he though Tolomei was dead, too.
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Sep 23, 2011 00:09
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Evfedu posted:Trilogy Spoilers continue! I thought that (gently caress it, I'm using spoiler tags) Tolomei WAS dead, but one of the spirits like the ones Logen talks to/possibly stonger because she would have been part devil. They do still have the ability to gently caress people up good, as per fire-spitting Logen.I can't see Bayaz leaving people alive if he doesn't have to..
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Sep 23, 2011 04:36
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I was also wondering about Bedesh before, but now I'm not as convinced that Joe has a hidden plot in the brew involving mythological characters. I think he himself once commented that he was having difficulty keeping track of all those mages in the original trilogy. It's entirely possible that Euz, his 4 sons, and Juven's 12 apprentices are mostly fluff back story. As was said earlier, Joe's talents tend to lie much more on the character building than the world building side of fantasy.
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Sep 23, 2011 05:35
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Is it best to start with The Blade Itself with this guy, or can I pick up The Heroes or something and still 'get it'? I've only just sort of gotten interested in fantasy after reading the first two books of ASoIaF (yes, because of the HBO series before you ask) and I'm very interested in this guy from what I've heard about him, but I'm kind of uncertain about jumping into another fantasy series before I finish A Dance with Dragons (which could easily be months from now; I'm an undisciplined reader).
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Sep 23, 2011 09:31
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Cwapface posted:Is it best to start with The Blade Itself with this guy, or can I pick up The Heroes or something and still 'get it'? I've only just sort of gotten interested in fantasy after reading the first two books of ASoIaF (yes, because of the HBO series before you ask) and I'm very interested in this guy from what I've heard about him, but I'm kind of uncertain about jumping into another fantasy series before I finish A Dance with Dragons (which could easily be months from now; I'm an undisciplined reader). You can read best served and the heroes by themselves, they are stand-alone enough to 'get it' and more, but the best way to read them is in order.
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Sep 23, 2011 10:10
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Yeah, start off with The Blade Itself. It begins the trilogy (which is essentially a complete story) and the two following books, although 'standalone', deal with some returning characters and plotpoints. It's certainly possible to read the standalones only, but you'd miss out on some stuff.
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Sep 23, 2011 11:37
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Cwapface posted:Is it best to start with The Blade Itself with this guy, or can I pick up The Heroes or something and still 'get it'? I've only just sort of gotten interested in fantasy after reading the first two books of ASoIaF (yes, because of the HBO series before you ask) and I'm very interested in this guy from what I've heard about him, but I'm kind of uncertain about jumping into another fantasy series before I finish A Dance with Dragons (which could easily be months from now; I'm an undisciplined reader). I would read The First Law before reading anything else, there are a ton of great callbacks and recurring characters between books. You'll be surprised how quickly his stuff reads, I finished most of the trilogy in a few weekends of off/on reading.
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Sep 23, 2011 12:17
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Cwapface posted:Is it best to start with The Blade Itself with this guy, or can I pick up The Heroes or something and still 'get it'? I've only just sort of gotten interested in fantasy after reading the first two books of ASoIaF (yes, because of the HBO series before you ask) and I'm very interested in this guy from what I've heard about him, but I'm kind of uncertain about jumping into another fantasy series before I finish A Dance with Dragons (which could easily be months from now; I'm an undisciplined reader). Oddly enough, I reckon that book 2 of the trilogy, Before They Are Hanged, is fantastically written and not a bad way to get into his books. I recommended that one to my Dad, and he went on to read the others too. The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Sep 23, 2011 |
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Sep 23, 2011 13:39
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I read Best Served Cold before the First Law trilogy, and while it had a couple of minor spoilers it also some interesting moments when I realised who the Cripple was and why the king preferred Monza's hair colour but they're all still pretty good books. e: thanks Grand Prize Winner, I am totally an idiot. Illuyankas fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 23, 2011 17:54
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Cwapface posted:Is it best to start with The Blade Itself with this guy, or can I pick up The Heroes or something and still 'get it'? I've only just sort of gotten interested in fantasy after reading the first two books of ASoIaF (yes, because of the HBO series before you ask) and I'm very interested in this guy from what I've heard about him, but I'm kind of uncertain about jumping into another fantasy series before I finish A Dance with Dragons (which could easily be months from now; I'm an undisciplined reader). Also, the standalone books are standalone in the same way that a discworld book is standalone. i.e. The plot stands alone but the framework of the world and characters you encounter have likely come from earlier books.
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Sep 23, 2011 21:21
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Evfedu posted:I'd say The Blade itself, both for chronological reasons and for the fact that it is an A+ best in genre piece of fantasy, whereas Best Served Cold (while still head and shoulders above 95% of fantasy) is his weakest novel. Yea I started with Best Served Cold and I had no idea what Shenkt was who The Cripple was, it was still a great read and I went on to buy the entire First Law trilogy due to it but I would suggest starting with The Blade Itself.
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Sep 23, 2011 21:54
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Illuyankas posted:I read Best Served Cold before the First Law trilogy, and while it had a couple of minor spoilers it also some interesting moments when I realised who the Cripple was and why the king preferred Monza's hair colour but they're all still pretty good books. I don't think either of those are particularly important spoilers, but you might want to fix your spoiler tag even so. And yeah, start with The Blade Itself and you'll know a little more about the world in the stories (does it even have a name?) and its history. However, the world and its shape and history take a definite backseat to the characters, so take that with a grain of salt.
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Sep 24, 2011 01:00
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Illuyankas posted:I read Best Served Cold before the First Law trilogy, and while it had a couple of minor spoilers it also some interesting moments when I realised who the Cripple was and why the king preferred Monza's hair colour but they're all still pretty good books. Refresh me, what's the deal with Monza's hair color?
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Sep 25, 2011 23:39
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The King has a thing for Brunettes. Probably still pining for the cripple's wife. Having finished my re-read of The Blade itself I'd recommend anyone go back and do the same. The sheer, workmanlike graft he put into writing those three books is wonderful, they fit together like a swiss watch.
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Sep 26, 2011 00:12
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I'm about 30% into The Blade Itself and I just can't get into it. I can't say it's boring, there's just nothing really making me care about the story or the characters so far. Is it worth sticking with? I'm not keen on the prose either but that's probably just nitpicking...
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Sep 26, 2011 18:19
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I can't tell you for sure. I mean, the tone and prose isn't going to shift radically, but you've already read 1/3, what can finishing it off hurt?
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Sep 26, 2011 18:24
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dmccaff posted:I'm about 30% into The Blade Itself and I just can't get into it. I can't say it's boring, there's just nothing really making me care about the story or the characters so far. Is it worth sticking with? I'm not keen on the prose either but that's probably just nitpicking... It really clicked for me at about the 3/4 mark into the first book, I'd stick with it a bit longer. If Logen isn't growing on you by the end then I'd just finish it up and not bother with the rest though.
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Sep 26, 2011 19:05
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The Gunslinger posted:It really clicked for me at about the 3/4 mark into the first book, I'd stick with it a bit longer. If Logen isn't growing on you by the end then I'd just finish it up and not bother with the rest though. Gunslinger is right. For me the first 3/4 of the book was a decent fantasy novel but all of a sudden it just becomes really really engrossing and the rest of the series is completely badass.
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Sep 26, 2011 19:46
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dmccaff posted:I'm about 30% into The Blade Itself and I just can't get into it. I can't say it's boring, there's just nothing really making me care about the story or the characters so far. Is it worth sticking with? I'm not keen on the prose either but that's probably just nitpicking... I disliked the entire First Law trilogy. Parts of it were enjoyable, and they are really necessary in my opinion to enjoy Best Served Cold and The Heroes, which are both amazing. So you're doing yourself a favor by reading it all.
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Sep 27, 2011 04:02
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You are a crazy person.
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Sep 27, 2011 12:27
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Yeah, not because you don't enjoy the trilogy - that's subjective taste and all - but that you'd read so much stuff you don't enjoy to get to the later books (which you'd probably assume you still wouldn't enjoy).
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Sep 27, 2011 16:15
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dmccaff posted:I'm about 30% into The Blade Itself and I just can't get into it. I can't say it's boring, there's just nothing really making me care about the story or the characters so far. Is it worth sticking with? I'm not keen on the prose either but that's probably just nitpicking... The Blade Itself is mostly windup for the next two books, I'd stick with it but if you don't like Abercrombie's writing...
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Sep 28, 2011 21:31
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Also I think the writing gets better as the books go on. The Blade Itself was his first novel ever, and I think it shows.
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Sep 28, 2011 22:07
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And yet that scene with Logen at the end of the book still stands as my favorite scene from the entire series. Edit: Logan is the common spelling so I make that mistake a lot. Clinton1011 fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Sep 29, 2011 |
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Sep 28, 2011 22:51
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And yet you can't spell his name right.
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Sep 28, 2011 23:55
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John Charity Spring posted:Yeah, not because you don't enjoy the trilogy - that's subjective taste and all - but that you'd read so much stuff you don't enjoy to get to the later books (which you'd probably assume you still wouldn't enjoy). I decided a few years ago to read every major fantasy book (that is not based on a video game, tabletop game, movie, or tv show) released within the last twenty years. I did this because I write fantasy novels as a hobby and wanted to get a clear picture of where the genre stands so that I can see what ways it can be improved. Joe Abercrombie was a relief after struggling through the last Robert Jordan written Wheel of Time books. Some writers who are successful have books out that I will never be able to stomach--Terry Goodkind was crossed off my list at book one. Steven Erikson is really hard for me to like, but I might come back to him. I felt that Joe Abercrombie started pushing the genre forward in new ways starting with Best Served Cold. The continuation of a traditional trilogy format with individual releases has never been accomplished with this kind of success. I will have to sit down when I have time and really come up with a bullet point list of the ways he is improving the genre. Maybe not "improving" but definitely finding and filling in a niche. MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Sep 30, 2011 |
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Sep 30, 2011 00:25
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I think the best possible thing he did was decide to not give a poo poo about "the genre" and just wrote what he wanted to write.
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Sep 30, 2011 06:12
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anathenema posted:I think the best possible thing he did was decide to not give a poo poo about "the genre" and just wrote what he wanted to write. That's understating it a bit. He only knew what he wanted to write because of the things he'd read before. He read those things and then used them to reach down inside himself write something he wanted to write, and in most cases with good fiction, it was not a regurgitation, but a re-ordering of all the things he enjoyed about fantasy (or any other kind of fiction). Writing for the market is a terrible idea 100% of the time. You have to be well-read to write well. I don't think any successful author would tell you different. It helps to read all kinds of writing, not just fantasy. I think if I read just Fantasy I would get the writer's equivalent of scurvy.
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Sep 30, 2011 11:33
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Okay, your reasons for reading books you don't enjoy are a lot more reasonable when you explain them! And you're definitely right about reading a diverse selection of books. I get the impression a lot of authors in sci-fi and fantasy don't venture outside those genres in their own reading. Hell, I get that impression about a lot of readers, too.
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Sep 30, 2011 13:09
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Abercrombie is just easy to read. It's not that he's "simple" or "basic", he just doesn't bog down his story with a bunch of unnecessary bits. And his world feels more "real" than a lot of them that I've read. The only problem I have with him is that he needed to be around 10 years ago so I'd have more material of his to read.. I've been in the Fantasy thread struggling to find something LIKE him to read, and I hope that book will show up on my doorstep today.
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Sep 30, 2011 17:52
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That is my only complaint about Abercrombie, everything else in the fantasy genre doesn't measure up in regards to how much fun I have reading his books. The only other author that I love to read as much as him is Jim Butcher and that is an author who goes in a completely different direction in regards to setting and writing style.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:52
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Clinton1011 posted:That is my only complaint about Abercrombie, everything else in the fantasy genre doesn't measure up in regards to how much fun I have reading his books. The only other author that I love to read as much as him is Jim Butcher and that is an author who goes in a completely different direction in regards to setting and writing style. I've definitely had a harder time getting into a lot of other books ever since I read the First Law trilogy. It makes other fantasy just feel like the diet version in comparison.
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Oct 1, 2011 21:48
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For sheer brutality Karl Edward Wagner's Kane books are a worthwhile read. For streetwise cynicism try Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos novels. Alternatively try the Crime genre rather than Fantasy. Plenty of hard-hitting violence there.
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Oct 2, 2011 15:19
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Morose Man posted:For sheer brutality Karl Edward Wagner's Kane books are a worthwhile read. A solid recommendation, but interested parties should be aware that while you can get the novels fairly cheap in paperback format, the short stories are another matter. They're only collected in Midnight Sun, which is rare and expensive (other collections exist, but they don't have all of the stories (and they're expensive, too)). It's unfortunate, because the short stories are better than the novels.
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Oct 3, 2011 04:20
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After finishing up all the books, I've have to say the biggest weakness in Abercrombie's world is that the Eaters are far too powerful in direct combat compared to regular people. Some of the descriptions of the Eaters vs the King's bodyguards in Last Argument of Kings were reminiscent of certain hyper violent anime. Punching a guy in full armor, crushing the armor and having fountains of blood spraying out of it. And it's even more ridiculous when we see it from Shenkt's point of view. He's pretty much untouchable and he can poke holes in people with his finger. It ends up making the eaters pretty boring to have them this strong. It's just a series of descriptions of people getting slaughtered, until we come to someone with plot armor, who only gets badly injured. And it makes the plot armor stand out a lot more than normal fights do. Seems like they would have worked better if they were just really powerful in direct combat, instead of really, really, really, really powerful. Maybe give them a similar power level to Fenris the feared. As is, Shenkt would just walk up to Fenris the feared in bullet time and punch him in the armored (non healing) side of his head and that'd be the end of Fenris the feared. Good series though, especially Heroes. EDIT: "say the" not "she", wow. Scrubber fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 00:45
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The one good thing is that there are not many of them left now.
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Oct 7, 2011 00:50
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