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Hurley has been doing pretty okay the last few weeks. We got him a bed for his crate and he hasn't destroyed it yet while we're gone, so I guess a lot of his separation anxiety has gone away. He rarely whines and cries when we leave now. It's kind of nice. A new thing he's been doing is waking up at 3-4am and whining in his crate. I KNOW he doesn't have to go to the bathroom, since he was just taken out at like 1:30am and he has held it for much, much longer than that. I think he's just whining for attention. It's really starting to disrupt my sleeping pattern. Not so much my Wife's because she's up at 5am for work anyway. Is there anything I can do to stop this behavior? He used to sleep through till 5am no problem. If it continues we're going to have to stop crating him in the room with us at night because I work 4pm-12am and I need sleep.
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Sep 24, 2011 13:35
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get out posted:Hurley has been doing pretty okay the last few weeks. We got him a bed for his crate and he hasn't destroyed it yet while we're gone, so I guess a lot of his separation anxiety has gone away. He rarely whines and cries when we leave now. It's kind of nice. When you wake up and hear him whining, try a nice, firm, 'Quiet', or 'Go to sleep.' or whatever. Sometimes the dog will stop if acknowledged. Don't keep doing it though and don't give him any other attention. He still needs to know that whining doesn't get him anywhere. He'll probably give up after several days, but moving him to another room isn't the end of the world if he doesn't.
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Sep 24, 2011 13:40
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Kiri koli posted:When you wake up and hear him whining, try a nice, firm, 'Quiet', or 'Go to sleep.' or whatever. Sometimes the dog will stop if acknowledged. Don't keep doing it though and don't give him any other attention. He still needs to know that whining doesn't get him anywhere. He'll probably give up after several days, but moving him to another room isn't the end of the world if he doesn't. He did it at about 3am today, and I sat up and said "be quiet and go to sleep" gently and he listened. I was shocked. He went right back to sleep! I hope this works from now on, but yeah, it's not something I want to continue doing. We got up at first and took him out because we thought he REALLY had to go pee, but he's just being a dick. Is this something puppies grow out of?
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Sep 24, 2011 13:49
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get out posted:He did it at about 3am today, and I sat up and said "be quiet and go to sleep" gently and he listened. I was shocked. He went right back to sleep! I hope this works from now on, but yeah, it's not something I want to continue doing. We got up at first and took him out because we thought he REALLY had to go pee, but he's just being a dick. Is this something puppies grow out of? Yeah. I think all dogs go through this phase. I would do the same as Kiri koli and tell her to be quiet. I think it kind of worked as a, "Yes, I hear you. No, you're not getting out." If I ignored her she would continue to yip, but if I said something she'd quiet down for an hour. It took a while for her to get out of the habit, but yes puppies will grow out of this (eventually) as long as they realize that fussing isn't getting them what they want. Some dogs simply want attention, so even acknowledging them can work against you. It depends on the dog.
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Sep 24, 2011 14:49
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Thanks for the advice! We'll deal with it and see where it goes from there. I really don't want to have him crated in the living room at night. Having him in the room with us is nice. 
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Sep 24, 2011 15:02
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Just wanted to drop in here with a quick, cheapo suggestion. PetCo had a "Dog Tricks for Dummies" mini booklet for a dollar in their impulse purchase section near the cash registers. I picked it up and it has a focus on positive training methods, discusses dealing with distractions while out on walks, clicker training and step by step instructions on how to train certain cues. Honestly I find it useful as its small enough to shove in a pocket and it cost a buck. If I lose it, I will not cry myself to sleep. It'd actually probably be a good gift for a new dog owner, but it might be way to basic for most of us. I'm just slow and I occasionally need stuff on hand for my own edumacation.
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Sep 25, 2011 19:16
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Alright, I need a bit of advice about strange dog aggression. Most of the sites I found were all dominance theory crap. Is there a book, site, or good post you could point me to? It's not fear aggression, they're just being assholes. Since getting the puppy, Biscuit has gone from grumble and walk away to what turned into today snarling and leaping at a dog behind a fence. they do a bitbetter with dogs on leashes. I don't think I can put off seriously working on this any longer. Ugh. Dogs.
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Sep 26, 2011 02:00
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Anyone have any thoughts on the Protocol for Relaxation? I keep thinking I'm loving it up since the trainer recommended me to do this with my neurotic dog, and I haven't gotten past day 1 yet... he gets stressed and hides in his crate halfway through  http://dogscouts.org/Protocol_for_relaxation.html I guess I should stop using clicking and treating, and going for pets and praise instead.
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Sep 26, 2011 03:15
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Okay so mostly venting, little bit of second opinion/advice needed.(posted on the last page too) I would totally tether Dexter but there is absolutely no place to do so unless I put a hook on the wall over my bed. I rent so this is not an option. And then I would think tethering him to myself would worsen the separation anxiety. My room is mostly dog proof. Next day I have off I will go through and organize/dog proof a little more. I have left him in a completely dog proof room back home and he still manages to find SOMETHING to get in trouble with. Last night I accidentally bumped a ball of yarn off the desk before I left the room, leaving it in Dexter range. In the time it took me to brush my teeth THIS happened:  (Dexter is not in the crate for punishment. That was because the shithead wouldn't stop going for the yarn and making it worse and I needed him out of the way/calmed down so I could get my head together) Of course when I walked into the room, he froze. I froze. Then he took off zooming around the room with the yarn tangled around his butt, making it worse. I just sat there resisting the urge to open the front door and tell him good luck and gtfo. (Really, I would never ever do this, but god drat, dog.) So I spent an hour and half re-balling up the yarn. The whole time Dexter was trying to do everything he could to get my attention. I tried my hardest to ignore every little thing he did. Example:  When I left the room I thought I was good because we went for a decent walk and played a bit and he was lazily chewing a ball. Apparently he hid some energy for me and exploded the second I left 
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Sep 26, 2011 04:56
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Silver Nitrate posted:It's not fear aggression, they're just being assholes. Kunabomber Check out the Yahoo Group for Control Unleashed. It's got plenty of discussion on the Protocol and if you can't find a specific answer, you can ask. Leslie McDevitt (of CU fame) even chimes in herself quite a bit.
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Sep 26, 2011 05:52
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The main issue we have is fenced dogs barking and charging the fence when we're walking. Due to my neighborhood being densely populated, they are completely unavoidable. But, the fences put the strange dogs 2 feet from the sidewalk. I feel like this is an especially tricky thing to deal with because the majority of the strange dogs start off by rushing the fence and barking and growling. Then they're super close and flippping out so my dogs react to them. I did find one dog that just looks at us, and my dogs just look at him and want to go see him. He's not outside a lot though,so I don't know how helpful he'd be. Biscuit used to do pretty well with them but they set my presa into defend owner mode which makes biscuit worse. They do alright with dogs on leashes we meet on walks, they usually pull toward them with wagging tails. Not all the time though. Its these fenced in barking ones that cause the serious issues. I can't even go a block in any direction without going past two houses that could have dogs outside. What I usually do is not break stride and keep walking past them and reward my dogs when they stop pulling towards the other dog. If I stand in front of a fence with a nasty dog about 40 seconds later I can get them to sit and look at me. Its the initial part that sucks. Typically on every walk we have 3-5 of these encounters. I just want to walk my dogs in peace. I'm not sure where to evenstart with this.
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Sep 26, 2011 11:39
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Silver Nitrate, I find simply continuing to walk while letting your dog bark/react to stimuli is counterproductive. It adds barrier frustration to your list of problems, and will encourage your dog to engage its oppositional reflex (you push me, I'll push you back). I recommend you track down and read Feisty Fido by Patrica McConnell and maybe Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt. Those two books will arm you with knowledge of classical conditioning and desensitization (like Rixatrix suggested) as well as exercises you can do to keep your dog's focus on you in the presence of distractions. How much distance can you put in between you and the dogs behind the fence? I would cross the street, or walk out into the middle of it (if you're not risking being hit by a car) to give yourself a bit more room to work. You mentioned if you stand in front of a fence for a while you can eventually get your dogs to look at you. This is asking WAY too much of your dog WAY too soon. That's kind of like teaching a kid algebra then asking them to problem solve in a burning house. The books I mentioned stress the value in laying the groundwork in low-to-no distraction areas and gradually working your way up. Consider walking your dogs one at a time because in all likelihood they're feeding off the other's anxiety and it's compounding your problem. You'll not likely see a huge shift in behaviour all of a sudden -- it takes a while to replace an old habit with a new one. Just keep working at it! a life less fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Sep 26, 2011 |
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Sep 26, 2011 15:54
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I can only get myself about 6 feet away from the other dog. Traffic is dense so crossing the street is not always an option. I will order those books, but until the come, ithink this is what I will do. My new plan of action: Before work walk dogs a short walk individually. When a dog is going to cause an issue, turn around and walk away or cross street. If my dogs notice him, cheezwiz. When I can't cross the street, use cheezwiz and keep walking while feeding. Also work on "look at me" which is now rewarded with delicous spray cheese. Eventually, I would like to be able to signal "look at me," walk past dog without incident and cheezz. End result would be dogs get barked at, dogs look at me and keep walking. My dogs would do anything for spray cheese. After work I'll walk them together as usual because its 5am and almost no one has dogs out. If they were horses i'd just stand there until they stopped caring, then leave. Horses are easier.
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Sep 26, 2011 22:52
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I had a strange breakthrough of sorts with Lola today in regards to her dog issues. Normally the sight of another dog makes me tense, even just a little. I talk more, over-treat, and try to remain calm and all of this just spirals to me feeling antsy. Lola has been becoming increasingly bad with strange dogs because of it. But I have been watching a lot of child training poo poo (supernanny ) and one thing that stuck with me is that time outs are very effective. Lola knows that other dogs' presence = look at me, but probably 4/10 of the time she'll bark or growl and urgh. So anyway I know for Lola especially that time outs work as we use them indoors, so I thought today I might as well try.A huge (trigger), fluffy (trigger) dog walked past a few metres away (trigger) and Lola ignored treats to bark. We were stood by a fence so I simply looped her lead over the fence and walked away, out of sight, for 30 seconds. When I got back the guy and his dog were still nearby so I grabbed her lead and followed them. They stopped outside of a shop and Lola was able to sit happily about 5m away without staring, growling, lifting her hackles, barking, or anything. She wasn't trying to appease me either - she was just being quiet and good, even when on the other side of the road a pair of collies were walked past. She glanced at them and then looked very calmly at me for cuddles. We stayed there for a few minutes and I even exchanged a few words with the guy (apologising for my no doubt crazy seeming behaviour) and she was calm and quiet and a good dog! I need to go on a training course in how to be a better trainer - calm, confident and not stressed at all!
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Sep 26, 2011 23:07
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^^^ Fraction, that is so weird because my parents asked me today what would happen if we just had Psyche out on a tether while we played cards and ignored her when she was being bad (a time-out) and whether she would eventually calm down on her own. I didn't know if she would or if she would just be all stressed and freak out over any startling motions, so I didn't try it.Silver Nitrate posted:I can only get myself about 6 feet away from the other dog. Traffic is dense so crossing the street is not always an option. This sounds like a good plan to me. My dog has problems with walking past certain things and I've had good success with just bribing her to walk past, starting with continually stuffing her face and then graduating to just holding the treat in sight and rewarding occasionally to eventually just asking for her focus and rewarding at the end. It sounds like your dogs just need to be desensitized to dogs behind fences making a racket, so stuffing their faces is counter-conditioning which you will eventually move up to operant training where the dog is expected to walk past nicely and/or focus on you for a reward. Of course, if they're really freaked out, then crossing the street for the initial desensitization is still preferable.
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Sep 27, 2011 04:02
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Hello, Pet Island. I bring you the continuing saga of Lee.  Lee is an Aussie that lives at an animal shelter. I adopted him for a while, but he's had to stay back at the shelter. I want to get rid of one of the big reasons for that so I can bring him home more often than every 3rd weekend. And Etta James:  The crux of the issue is I have to be neglecting Lee or my cat at all times. Lee is very anxious about his humans and can't stand being closed off somewhere away from the people he loves. My cat, a chill old Maine Coon, is pretty low maintenance and I can forget she's here if she decides to spend her time in another room. I have to keep them separated, and my house is not big enough for both of them to have the space they need, nor can I give both of them the attention they need this way. Lee doesn't seem to be actively hunting Etta, so I think I can get them on good terms with each other, I just need a hand. Lee has some serious emotional issues. There is definitely some horrible abuse in his background. He is an unforgivably awesome dog around the people he trusts, but god help you if you went in his pen without his permission. Lee never sent anyone to the emergency room, but he sent a few people to the hospital. He never seems to specifically antagonize Etta, but he does go in for an impolite sniff. When she sets personal space boundaries with her claws, then it's a fight. Lee in a fight is bad. Potential for fatal injury bad. The last time he was here I brought him into Etta's room, and stayed between them. While he was curious for a while, he eventually laid down and ignored her. I call this reason to hope. The biggest problem I had in trying to train him out of this was I could never nail the exact moment to go in with the treat. I'm using positive reinforcement for Lee, obviously (one volunteer at the shelter thinks she'll get on Lee's good side with her 'correction whistle,' blehh). He always stays totally focused on the treats to the extent of ignoring everything else if I have it out, and no connections are being made in his little doggy brain. If I bury it in my pocket it takes too long to get it to him and he forgets what happened and just goes into YAY TREAT mode. On top of that I'm really not sure how to bring them together. All I can come up with is to just always have treats so he stops expecting them just because he sees them, and to take him into the cat room and reward him as soon as he stops paying attention to Etta. Any ideas you guys can offer?
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Sep 27, 2011 10:40
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Wulfolme posted:The biggest problem I had in trying to train him out of this was I could never nail the exact moment to go in with the treat. I'm using positive reinforcement for Lee, obviously (one volunteer at the shelter thinks she'll get on Lee's good side with her 'correction whistle,' blehh). He always stays totally focused on the treats to the extent of ignoring everything else if I have it out, and no connections are being made in his little doggy brain. If I bury it in my pocket it takes too long to get it to him and he forgets what happened and just goes into YAY TREAT mode. On top of that I'm really not sure how to bring them together. Are you using a marker (clicker or marker word or something)? The whole idea is to mark the exact instant you want to reward since tossing a treat isn't very specific.
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Sep 27, 2011 16:44
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Thank you for helping me clarify my question into something extremely specific. I do have a clicker, and once I have some good training treats I'll be using it. When should I give Lee the click? What precise instant will I know that he has turned his attention away from the cat and is to be rewarded, and if it doesn't happen is there anything that can be done to make it happen? Also while I have your attention is there a good way to soften the pads on a dog's feet? Lee's are like sandpaper. Soak them in warm water, apply lotion or something? I worry there might be some horrible problem with putting lotion on a dog's skin that you all know and I don't.
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Sep 28, 2011 14:19
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Wulfolme posted:Thank you for helping me clarify my question into something extremely specific. I do have a clicker, and once I have some good training treats I'll be using it. 1) If you want to click for ignoring the cat, click the second his eyes aren't focused on the cat. If he looks away for even 1 second, click at that moment. 2) Shouldn't dog's paws be kinda rough to protect them from sidewalks/ pebbles/ etc?
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Sep 28, 2011 17:45
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Wulfolme posted:Also while I have your attention is there a good way to soften the pads on a dog's feet? Lee's are like sandpaper. Soak them in warm water, apply lotion or something? I worry there might be some horrible problem with putting lotion on a dog's skin that you all know and I don't. Every dog I've ever known, bar puppies, has had rough paw pads. Its actually probably better for the dog too if you walk him on pavement.
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Sep 28, 2011 18:27
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It's really that the edges have little burrs of callous that catch on things and the few times he gets jumpy I don't want to lose a shirt to them. I think I'll just hold a warm wet rag to them now and then. I don't have any good training treats for him, and I got no drat money for the moment, but strangely enough he just doesn't seem that interested in the cat anymore. Huh. I know he really doesn't care that much, they once spent a three hour car ride on top of each other with only Etta's crate between them to the effect of one solitary growlfest but I didn't expect this degree of apathy. It goes back to the same problem though, he doesn't really care but if something happens and I'm not there to stop it it could mean Etta's structural integrity. dun want my poor kitty to be shut up the rest of her life...
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Sep 28, 2011 19:54
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I learned real quick that hot dogs or boiled chicken diced into pea-sized bits are the best training treats. Sometimes the dog gets tired of them, so I switch it up with the expensive organic treat tips to keep his palette interested.
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Sep 28, 2011 20:00
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So yesterday, one of our 2 year old Golden Retrievers decided to up and piss on the floor in our room. Neither of them has done this in forever. My wife said she wanted to take a nap and Weston was whining. This is not uncommon for Weston. He always wants to be outside. This wouldn't be a problem except that he always wants to be outside with his brother, Jack. Jack always wants to be inside. Ten minutes later, she hears him pissing and wakes up. Maybe once or twice a month Weston will cry so much at night until we let him out, then just lay down on the patio and go to sleep. How can I get Weston to only signal "let me out!" when he actually needs to go instead of this dumb whining game he plays?
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Sep 28, 2011 21:09
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My 5 month old Cardigan Corgi has started barking at stuff. He'll bark at some dogs/ people when he's on the leash, mostly in a "hey why are you over there why can't i come play with you hey how's it going i am a puppy" kind of way. However, there are a couple dogs in the neighborhood that he will BARK AT like, growling/ jumping/ not happy kind of barking. One of the dogs he does this with is big and black and is always allowed offleash in our apartment complex and who gave Orbit a total staredown one day when my boyfriend had him. The other is a little puggle who I don't know if Orbit has had a bad experience with, but he hasn't when I have had him. There are other dogs he'll see when he's on leash who he runs to go greet but is totally quiet with (a trio of little tiny, old, calm lap dogs who are always off leash). I do not bring him outside if I see other dogs in our shared apartment outside space, but often they will come out when we are already there. When we're walking somewhere else and he sees dogs he doesn't know, he is usually pretty polite and quiet. He's great in dog parks with little dogs. It seems like it's mostly THESE DOGS who he learned don't like him who he has a problem with, and who we cannot avoid until we move. Right now when we're outside I try to redirect his attention to me/ offer him treats but he looses it and until I can drag him out of the way/ around the corner/ inside, he is completely shut down. He also will bark out the window. He is short, and does not have visual access to any of the windows. We're also on the second floor. He'll bark at some sounds that I can recognize, like collars jingling, but other times he will bark and I can't hear anything at all, but look out the window and see it's one of THOSE DOGS outside. Sometimes it's at another dog that I don't know if he's met or not, but other times a dog will walk by and he'll be totally quiet. He also barks when the mailman comes, sometimes, but not always. I also try to redirect him when he does this, and he's usually better at coming to me when I say "touch" and then I feed feed feed treats until I think the noise is gone. However, because the sounds are so quiet that I can't hear them, I can't preemptively prevent him from barking. Am I doing the right thing? Is there something else I should be doing? I don't know how much of this is normal dog-barks-at-something -- I realize dogs bark and you can't expect your dog to be 100% silent all of them time -- and how much is stuff that could progress to serious reactivity if I don't do something about it now. Also, now that it is cooling down outside and he doesn't refuse to move in the heat, I'm upping his exercise. I notice he's less barky when he's tired (obviously!) and am hoping this helps with the inside barking. It's the outside barking that I am more worried about, as he seems much more intense/ reactive. Thanks in advance!
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Sep 28, 2011 22:20
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I posted (I think) in this thread a while ago about our recent adoption of a second great dane. He has improved quite a bit and is a pleasant dog to live with...except, still, with the cats. To be fair, until recently, we have only had daily 30 minute introduction sessions where we hold onto a cat and he sniffs around (albeit aggressively, or rudely). We thought we were making progress, but it seems that as soon as a cat takes off he follows quickly. He wants to play with the cats (not eat them), we know after a scary accident, but this is still unacceptable. His head is bigger than a cat and he plays rough with our other great dane (who is perfectly fine with that, apparently). He may have scared off the cats already. Does anyone have any advice how to get this guy to just accept them as normal parts of everyday life -- parts that you leave the hell alone? For background: He has the profile of a skinny, nervous heroin addict who is also a comedian. We were told he got along great with cats (pretty sure he hadn't seen a cat up until we brought him home). Life is getting complicated in general, so I would like to end this complication quickly. We would really appreciate some advice on this one. If we can't get this to work out, we are going to have to find yet another home for this fellow who has already been through several. Then we would be depressed because we thought we would never be the type of people to have to surrender an animal.
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Sep 29, 2011 05:21
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How much work have you done on ” leave it” ? With my lurcher we had to work a ton on that, and then apply that to the kitties. With my presa all it took was the cat scratching his nose a couple of times. I know someone had success with putting the cat in a carrrier and working on leave it that way. Then the cat is safe, you don't have to hold it and its easier to reward that moment the dog looks away from the kitty.
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Sep 30, 2011 01:27
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Alicemadee - 5 months old is pretty standard for dogs to start showing/developing reactivity. I think Lola was just shy of 6 months when she started really hating on certain types of dogs and I wasn't quick enough to catch it and nip it in the bud. Barking at certain other people or dogs (whether from excitement or from a dislike of those particular dogs) is the early stage of reactivity. If I were you, I'd get your pup out as much as possible. If he sees a person/dog you think he's likely to bark at, don't cue him to do anything - just crouch down and start shovelling treats into his mouth. If he's barking so much and is so emotional about a dog or person being there, make a mental note of the distance you are from the dog and make sure to increase it next time. If you can, try asking your neighbours if you can meet them to 'help your dog get over it'. Try looking up BAT (Behavioural Adjustment Training, i think) - I think that will be help with those dogs in particular. How much mental stimulation is he getting? Do you go to puppy classes, train at home, train tricks, etc? Bear in mind what you have is a highly intelligent, highly active, and highly noisy breed. He needs to be absolutely exhausted both mentally and physically (ESPECIALLY mentally) each day. Corgis are crazy.
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Sep 30, 2011 06:30
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Fraction posted:How much mental stimulation is he getting? Do you go to puppy classes, train at home, train tricks, etc? Bear in mind what you have is a highly intelligent, highly active, and highly noisy breed. He needs to be absolutely exhausted both mentally and physically (ESPECIALLY mentally) each day. Corgis are crazy. Thanks so much for the reply. I definitely get the sense that he is getting irrational sometimes, so it for sure feels like something we need to work on ASAP and not just ignore and hope it goes away. The dog he reacts to the most is this big black one. Unfortunately his owner is the biggest bozo in the universe (probably why orbit reacts to them). We had to yell at the owner twice and go to the apartment management company twice just to get him to pick up his dog's giant turds that were sprinkled everywhere around our back door. He also has his dog off leash 100% of the time. There isn't any way we can get further away from the dog when we see him without me dragging Orbit down the parking lot away from our back door. I definitely don't think the owner would be willing to sit there patiently with his dog on leash while Orbit barks at them. In fact, the other couple dogs he will bark at (I think there are 3 he doesn't like) ALL have total moron owners who let them off leash/ have blank stares/ refuse to say hi to us/ are generally not nice. I've been keeping treats with me at all times. He'll eat them in the apartment if he starts barking, but outside our apartment he is likely to just spit them out. Our 6-week puppy class just ended and it was a constant battle to get him to eat treats there. Chicken or cheese cubes usually worked, but towards the end of each class he'd usually check out and just refuse to eat them. He was always sloowww when eating them/ taking them, too. He definitely seems more mental-stimulation motivated than treat motivated when we're training him-- like, he wants to do tricks to have something to do, not because OhMyGodAmazingTreatIMustEatThisSecondPleasePlease, you know? We still click/treat for markers when he's learning something, of course. As for what stimulation/ exercise he gets: I work from home, and do tricks with him throughout the day in short blocks, and then usually a longer session running through more stuff in the evening. If I see him getting restless I'll take him out or play fetch or do training with him. I'd say he gets about a hour a day of training, sometimes more. I try to give him half his food as training treats. His puppy class just ended, and I'm looking into an adolescent class for him- I don't think he's ready for regular classes with adult dogs (I'd love to do fun agility or treibball, though we're teaching him treibball at home for now) because he still gets barkbarkbarkIWantToPlay when he's in a room with other dogs (though we did see a marked difference between his first puppy class and his last). As for physical exercise-- that one is tough. He is NOT good at going on walks. He'll stop and drag behind me and refuse to go anywhere, or he'll sniffsniffsniff everywhere. A front-clip harness is good for getting him in the direction I want, but when he puts on the breaks there's nothing I can do other than wait him out. Sometimes when my boyfriend and I go on walks together he'll be more willing to actually go someplace with us, but it's definitely not what I'd call good exercise for him. There's a little tiny dog run (maybe 20' x 20') across the street from us that I take him to every day but there are never any other dogs there that he can play with. He gets off-leash time and I try to play fetch, run and do "touch", etc, but mostly he just wants to ignore me and slowly sniff things. There's a bigger actual dog park 5 minutes from us that I've taken him to since he got all his shots and there are never any dogs there either during the week, and again, he just wants to slowly wander when he's off-leash. He'll only fetch 2 or 3 times before he gets bored. There are some AMAZING bigger dog parks with huge open fields and non-bozo owners about 45 minutes from us that I take him to when I have the time, and always on the weekends, but they're pretty far for an every day thing for us. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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Sep 30, 2011 13:56
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aliceamadee posted:The dog he reacts to the most is this big black one. Unfortunately his owner is the biggest bozo in the universe (probably why orbit reacts to them). We had to yell at the owner twice and go to the apartment management company twice just to get him to pick up his dog's giant turds that were sprinkled everywhere around our back door. He also has his dog off leash 100% of the time. There isn't any way we can get further away from the dog when we see him without me dragging Orbit down the parking lot away from our back door. I definitely don't think the owner would be willing to sit there patiently with his dog on leash while Orbit barks at them. Be really, really careful with this. If you need to drag Orbit away when he sees a stimulus, he's going to become very leash reactive and start flipping out just because you pulled on the leash. I would start putting a lot of work into getting Orbit to follow you voluntarily. Practice walking inside your home and desensitize him to you pulling on the leash at random times and reward him for following when you do. We also do something called a backaway, which looks like this: you call the dog/give a cue and/or start walking backwards. Orbit's job is to turn immediately and start walking/running to you and then sit in front of you. You feed him for sitting as close to you as possible and optionally do a collar grab. You can also do backaways just to turn around and start walking in the other direction. When I do a backaway with Psyche, I call her name excitedly and hop/run back a few steps and that gets her to break off her focus and come to me (I tried to make it a fun game before we started using it in bad situations). It both adds some distance and gets her to face me, which calms her down. Off-leash dogs are tough and one of the things I hate dealing with the most. Keep trying different treats and maybe experiment with toys as rewards? If Orbit likes having a job to do, you can also try getting him to follow you and turn away from the scary dog by asking for a Touch. He's young so he might still be growing into loving treats or toys. Psyche still won't play with toys outside for the most part, even in our own yard when no one is around.
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Sep 30, 2011 14:12
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Kiri koli posted:Be really, really careful with this. Thanks. I look out the window before we go outside and we haven't run into that dog in a while, thankfully, but he will bark at the window if he hears the dog outside. Leash walking in general is DEFINITELY something he needs loootttsss of work on. We do it inside and he's great, then outside he's not. In the past 3 months we've had him, he's gone from literally not wanting to go on the sidewalk out of the front door to being able to go around the block with some encouragement. He's amazing on leash if we're in a big, open park. I think one thing he doesn't like is cars, so I've been treating every time a car goes by and have been trying to find places to walk that don't have cars. I found a path that I thought was great and then bikes started flying past us, so I'm not sure that will help! Anyway, because leash walking has been so hard for him since the beginning, although we're making progress, doing it with a dog he doesn't like I think is 10000% harder and not really something I can expect right now. It'll take a few months more of work I'm sure. Our puppy class trainer was pretty good, but the facility wasn't the best and it was in a bad neighborhood. I'm going to another place today to check them out and see what they're like. They seem like a serious dog sports kind of place. I notice they have specific teen-dog classes and they have reactive classes (and also treibball and agility and obedience and flyball and 23083 other dog lady things). Do you guys think a reactive class would be helpful at this early stage, or would putting him around other barky dogs make him more nervous? I guess it's a question to ask them too.
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Sep 30, 2011 14:31
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aliceamadee posted:Our puppy class trainer was pretty good, but the facility wasn't the best and it was in a bad neighborhood. I'm going to another place today to check them out and see what they're like. They seem like a serious dog sports kind of place. I notice they have specific teen-dog classes and they have reactive classes (and also treibball and agility and obedience and flyball and 23083 other dog lady things). Do you guys think a reactive class would be helpful at this early stage, or would putting him around other barky dogs make him more nervous? I guess it's a question to ask them too. Definitely ask them. They'll probably do an evaluation and be able to fit you to their best class. If their reactive dog class is anything like mine, then being around other barky/reactive dogs does add to the stress level a bit (as well as providing great practice), but it's way offset by the fact that everyone is there to deal with reactivity issues. So the trainer presumably 1) is good at dealing with reactivity and 2) is going to be focused on not pushing your dog past his limit. So for example, in our class they use barriers to keep the worse dogs more isolated and only expose them to what they are ready for. In any other class, they are not focused on reactivity and so even if the other dogs are friendlier, Orbit's nervousness might get missed because of all the other activities. HOWEVER, Orbit is young and it's not clear that he's on the path to bad reactivity. More likely he just needs time, some careful guidance, and more confidence. In that case, they may place you in a sporty class because dogs who like to do jobs tend to do much better when they are focused on a fun job. That may be what he needs to get him over the socialization/puppy angst period. And of course, if things worsen, you can always re-evaluate and change classes/strategies.
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Sep 30, 2011 16:04
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Kiri koli posted:Definitely ask them. They'll probably do an evaluation and be able to fit you to their best class. If their reactive dog class is anything like mine, then being around other barky/reactive dogs does add to the stress level a bit (as well as providing great practice), but it's way offset by the fact that everyone is there to deal with reactivity issues. So the trainer presumably 1) is good at dealing with reactivity and 2) is going to be focused on not pushing your dog past his limit. So for example, in our class they use barriers to keep the worse dogs more isolated and only expose them to what they are ready for. I just called the place and I'm going to swing by with him later today. I definitely think he needs a confidence boost.
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Sep 30, 2011 16:16
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So we went by and they were super nice. One of the trainer's dogs came flying out at Orbit out of nowhere and he didn't blink an eye. We decided to go with a basic fun agility class. The trainer apparently does a puppy agility too, so she's good with younger dogs who are still learning. The class started last Monday, but they say the first class is just an intro so I haven't missed much. I can't wait! Agili-corgi! Then we went for a walk on this long sand path in the woods and a car came out of nowhere and Orbit BARRRRRKED at it I tried to get out treats as fast as I could but it took too long. Next time I'll bring a pouch instead of shoving them in my back pocket.
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Sep 30, 2011 21:08
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Meet Barney! He is a two year old beagle/something mix and a rescue from our local SPCA. We adopted him two weeks ago. He basically lives for tennis balls and belly rubs. He's not treat motivated at all. Or, I haven't found the right treat for him. I've been researching canine nutrition and I'm going to bake a variety of training treats this weekend to see whether he responds well to any of them. It makes training a little more difficult, but he's smart enough that he catches on pretty quickly, even if all he gets is petting and praise. He's great on a leash, his "leave it" has improved dramatically outside, but his "stay" still needs work. As soon as he loses sight of me he goes into tracking mode. You know, in case I was sucked into a black hole when I went around that corner. %99.9 of the time he's fantastic. My girlfriend works at home, and I telecommute frequently, so there's almost always someone around for him to spend time with. He has a couple issues, though, with one more serious than the other. He tolerates about a quarter of the dogs he meets and absolutely hates the remainder. He'll hold still while another dog comes to inspect him and then he just lashes out. No real biting yet, but pretty vicious snarling and nipping. This is something I can deal with, though. Slow socialization (I volunteer with the SPCA, so there are no shortage of dogs for him to get to know) and positive reinforcement for good behavior. The other issue is where I'm out of my depth. Dude has puppy PTSD or something. About a week after we brought him home, he was dozing on my feet while I was working on something. I reached down to pet him without really looking, as I often do, and he lost his poo poo. He jumped up and bit me pretty hard in the face. I was surprised, but we don't know much about his background, so instead of freaking out we just observed him more carefully. We found out that he startles really easily when he's dozing and tends to react violently out of fear, before realizing where he is and what's going on. Once in a while he'll be napping on his bed and just leap up, snarling at imaginary stuff. We're hoping that he's just still adjusting to his new environment and once he fully realizes he's completely safe here the episodes will diminish. But then about half an hour ago, after a very nice walk, my girlfriend and I were petting him and he seemed completely relaxed. Out of nowhere he snarled and lunged at her. I don't think he really tried to bite her, but one of his teeth hit her hand pretty hard. This dog is nuts about her, too, and she's never done anything to threaten him, so we're sort of at a loss to explain his behavior. If anyone has any ideas to help I'd really appreciate it. In addition, his paw is injured right now, which I'm sure doesn't help. A couple days before we picked him up from the lady who houses all of the SPCA dogs he tore out his nail bed trying to dig under a fence for a ball. We put him on antibiotics for five days and we've been monitoring his foot. It's improving, but he can't really play fetch right now, which is his favorite thing in the world, and instead just has to expel his energy with long walks.
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Oct 1, 2011 06:59
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Just reread my post and felt the need to clarify something: Freddie and I will never even consider returning him to the SPCA. Nothing against our SPCA chapter at all -- the dogs have a great home out in the country with lots to do and a fantastic owner. But Barney was already placed with two different families and we would never put him through the emotional trauma of being sent back alone again. He's been an SPCA pup for over half his life. The first family returned him right after the two week trial period because he bit their young daughter. She was rubbing off his paws after a walk, which he's sensitive about, and he reacted poorly. We've been working with him on the paw issue and he's now completely happy to give us his paws when requested, even his injured one. I even got him to soak it for a while last night after I stepped on it during our walk. Which, by the way, was the first time Barney was allowed to sleep with me on the couch, due to my overwhelming guilt. The second guy was just a jackass. I don't think he understood the level of commitment that's required when you own a dog. Even though we spell it out pretty plainly, especially for a high energy guy like Barney. His excuse was that he couldn't find a good place in his apartment to hide Barney's ball.  So, yeah, we're determined to work through this even if it means I have to again awkwardly explain to my boss that it was the dog and not my girlfriend that gave me the black eye. But any advice you guys could share would be fantastic. I can't figure out how to condition him not to do that sort of thing when he's not even truly conscious when he does it.
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Oct 1, 2011 08:48
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Mr. Noon posted:He is a two year old beagle/something mix and a rescue from our local SPCA. We adopted him two weeks ago. He basically lives for tennis balls and belly rubs. He's not treat motivated at all. Or, I haven't found the right treat for him. I've been researching canine nutrition and I'm going to bake a variety of training treats this weekend to see whether he responds well to any of them. It makes training a little more difficult, but he's smart enough that he catches on pretty quickly, even if all he gets is petting and praise. He's great on a leash, his "leave it" has improved dramatically outside, but his "stay" still needs work. As soon as he loses sight of me he goes into tracking mode. You know, in case I was sucked into a black hole when I went around that corner. Looks like a JRT/Beagle mix to me, maybe. Congrats on your new dog. Training is easiest when the dog will work for treats, but there are other methods. You can use a thrown ball as a reward fairly easily in the right environment. Here are a couple videos for a ball being used to reward focused heeling. Does he tug? You can also get him to play and tug, then take a treat then play again. Over a long enough timeline you will increase the value of food since it's being associated with play. This also works vice versa for dogs who aren't interested in playing. In our classes we teach stay on the second class. We don't start working on long distance out of sight stays until the next class level 10 weeks afterwards. You're probably having difficulty with your stay because you're trying to progress way too fast and your dog doesn't understand what it is you're asking of him in the context, or doesn't have enough value for following the rules of the game yet. Mr. Noon posted:
People aren't very good at reading dogs' signals. My guess is that when another dog approaches Barney gets really quiet and still before lashing out. That's textbook doggy body language and often predicts an outburst if the other dog (or person) doesn't back the hell up right there. Think of it as the quiet before the storm. I would recommend you familiarize yourself with dog body language so you can better predict reactive outbursts. Start here: http://reactivechampion.blogspot.com/2011/05/sarah-kalnajs-seminar-body-language.html http://reactivechampion.blogspot.com/2011/06/sarah-kalnajs-seminar-distance.html http://reactivechampion.blogspot.com/2011/05/sarah-kalnajs-seminar-appeasement.html http://reactivechampion.blogspot.com/2011/06/sarah-kalnajs-seminar-distance_06.html Honestly that entire Reactive Champion blog is great and I would recommend you read through a collection of her other posts too. Today's post on dog bite thresholds should be helpful for you. So now you know your dog has a problem with the majority of other dogs. Now, stop testing your luck and letting him greet other dogs. Work on classical conditioning and desensitization followed by rewarding for good behaviour from a distance. Dogs don't have to meet every dog who crosses their path, and in your case it's dangerous. So quit it and set your dog up for success instead. Be warned it can take months or longer to get a reactive dog to a more socially acceptable level, and your dog may never be interested in making doggy friends. And that's okay. Mr. Noon posted:Dude has puppy PTSD or something. About a week after we brought him home, he was dozing on my feet while I was working on something. I reached down to pet him without really looking, as I often do, and he lost his poo poo. He jumped up and bit me pretty hard in the face. I was surprised, but we don't know much about his background, so instead of freaking out we just observed him more carefully. We found out that he startles really easily when he's dozing and tends to react violently out of fear, before realizing where he is and what's going on. Once in a while he'll be napping on his bed and just leap up, snarling at imaginary stuff. We're hoping that he's just still adjusting to his new environment and once he fully realizes he's completely safe here the episodes will diminish. This is the most worrying issue, and I would suggest you hunt down a professional behaviourist to help with it. On top of that, let sleeping dogs lie. Avoid him when he's sleeping completely. I suggest maybe setting up a nice comfy bed for him that's out of the way so you don't accidentally touch him when he's passed out. Maybe a crate. I suspect some of his reaction is due to the stress of being in a new environment, so you may see it less frequently as he settles in. I would also be careful not to withdraw when he lashes out like that (if you've made a mistake and accidentally woke him). You don't want to reinforce that he gets that distance he wants when he snarls. Then I would start out a classical conditioning regimen which your behaviourist will be in a better position to set up. Basically, "you wake up when we're around and good things happen". The reason this is a job for a professional is that you'll be tiptoeing around a very fuzzy threshold where you may trigger a reaction if you're not careful. It sounds like you're doing well by him. But a dog who bites upon being woken up is a serious problem and needs professional help. If you'd like some help finding someone we can point you towards a few once we know your rough location. Avoid anyone who utters the word "dominance" or suggests confrontational methods or punishment. Good luck!
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Oct 1, 2011 13:33
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a life less posted:Looks like a JRT/Beagle mix to me, maybe. Congrats on your new dog. Makes perfect sense. Thanks so much for your help. a life less posted:People aren't very good at reading dogs' signals. My guess is that when another dog approaches Barney gets really quiet and still before lashing out. That's textbook doggy body language and often predicts an outburst if the other dog (or person) doesn't back the hell up right there. Think of it as the quiet before the storm. I would recommend you familiarize yourself with dog body language so you can better predict reactive outbursts. Start here: I was just reading that blog last night- it had been linked to in another thread. I'll pull up the articles you mentioned right now and start to work on that with him. I've been trying to keep him at a distance lately, and I don't mind that he'll possibly never be a dog park candidate. I enjoy our alone time. I just don't want him to stress out over it. I was just walking him about twenty minutes ago and some lady and her dog came around the corner in front of us. She asked if Barney was friendly and I replied "no, not usually" and she still ran her dog right up to us. Cue growling and snarling. Poor Barney. a life less posted:This is the most worrying issue, and I would suggest you hunt down a professional behaviourist to help with it. I emailed one of the SPCA employees for suggestions on a behavioral therapist if it ever happens again. Any suggestions you might have in the DC/Northern Virginia area would be more than welcome, though. We have a nice, comfy bed set up for him. But most of the time he'll just nap on top of my feet. It isn't that he doesn't like the bed, but he's most comfortable when in close proximity to us. Should I start giving him his ball when he gets into the bed? That's the only reward he really values (for now-- I'll start trying to increase the treat value with him today). Thank you for all of your help.
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Oct 1, 2011 14:06
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Mr. Noon posted:easily startled dog All of a life less's advice is great. We have a similar problem with my dog. I can be petting her and she seems very relaxed and then all of the sudden she will jump up, snarl, and nip at my hand. She never bites, I've never felt or seen teeth, so it's not as bad as yours, but it's still very puzzling. When she does that, I just check that she's all right and continue petting her, though not in the same area. It has been slowly decreasing with time. I have two suggestions. One, adopt a no teeth on skin rule. If he does any mouthing during play or otherwise, then that stops. Use toys when you play as he gets to that point. Two, pay very close attention when it happens. The during sleep thing is something he will probably start to get over as he gets used to his new home. As a life less said, let him sleep undisturbed while he acclimatizes. But if he does react, note why. Does he react to a voice awakening him or just a touch? Are you leaning over him? Is he disoriented when he wakes up normally? For the other biting, note everything from where he was touched to his environment. It could be that he's sensitive about a certain area OR that he is redirecting. My dog will lash out at us when she sees something that freaks her out really badly, like another dog really close. It usually very obvious what is freaking her out, but maybe it was something subtle in his environment that startled him. A veterinary behaviorist or behavioral trainer is a good idea. If you don't see progress as he settles into his environment, he may have an anxiety issue that is very much like PTSD and a behaviorist may suggest medication down the road. It may also be his paw or the antibiotics. Our dog is on antibiotics right now and at first she was more easily agitated. That went away after a few days and now she's just lethargic a bit, but I can clearly tell it's affecting her. Can't wait until she's done with them. Good luck!
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Oct 1, 2011 14:33
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Mr. Noon posted:
Yeah, you're going to run into a lot of that. Be prepared to be a bitch and forcefully stand up for your dog if necessary. Saying, "no, he's not normally friendly" is pretty polite and politeness is too often interpreted as permission. It may be embarrassing, but saving face doesn't mean much when your dog is trying to eat another pup. Get accustomed to being insistent that people leave your dog alone, and for them to get their dog away QUICKLY if necessary. My dog is minimally reactive, but I tend to adopt pretty obvious "I'm working with my dog" body language where I'm tuned into my dog and not at all anyone else. I'll audibly coax her along, "c'mon, let's go, that's right, let's go..." if we're passing another person walking a dog. Their dog may be straining to say hello, but mine is focused on my handful of food and my face, so the other handler is normally savvy enough just to pull their dog away. If you run into an off-leash dog who's approaching you, throw a handful of kibble onto the ground in front of it while you make an exit. The food should distract the other dog long enough for you to avoid a messy confrontation.
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Oct 1, 2011 14:55
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I'm very glad to hear that your dog is getting better about it, Kiri. The first time it happened with Barney it was my mistake. We didn't know yet that he had this sleep issue. He was napping on my feet while I was sitting on the couch, so when I reached down to pet him I was definitely looming over him. In retrospect, that would have even scared the crap out of me. My inexperience with dogs was definitely showing. When we need to wake him up now we make sure we're not too close and just gently call his name. That seems to do the trick. He doesn't appear to be disoriented when he wakes up, just easily startled. When we're playing he doesn't mouth my hands or nip at me. I think he's aware that teeth are only for "holy poo poo" moments. I'm confident we'll get through this, but I think we might need to introduce a behaviorist in the near future. For training me as much as training the dog. It's depressing to think about the environmental conditions which may have lead to this behavior. He's honestly such a sweet, affectionate guy. Edit: a life less posted:Yeah, you're going to run into a lot of that. Be prepared to be a bitch and forcefully stand up for your dog if necessary. Saying, "no, he's not normally friendly" is pretty polite and politeness is too often interpreted as permission. It may be embarrassing, but saving face doesn't mean much when your dog is trying to eat another pup. Get accustomed to being insistent that people leave your dog alone, and for them to get their dog away QUICKLY if necessary. Yeah, I was pretty pissed at that lady today. But it's also my fault for not being more forceful about it, which I'm going to be in the future. I honestly could give a poo poo if I offend someone when they're stressing out Barney. Dude has had a tough life, and this is supposed to be the good, care-free portion of it. I think he may have actually become more reactive in the past couple weeks. And I think it might be my fault. If we see another dog and I get anxious then it isn't a stretch to assume that it makes Barney more anxious, too. That's something I need to work on. So it looks like we both have some work to do. Mr. Noon fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 15:01
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