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M4rk posted:Every time Pat Wyatt at En Masse talks about how Blizzard hacked together WC2, SC, and Diablo, it makes my inner nerd squee. I'm reminded of this old Game Developer article on developers having to improvise at the last minute. So. Many. Hacks. The Wing Commander one in the comments is a favorite of mine...
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Sep 26, 2011 05:06
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The Oid posted:My understanding is that it's more to do with the fact that BSP is outdated, than anything else. Using BSP to get a list of triangles to be rendered, based on the camera viewpoint, doesn't fit as well with modern graphics hardware as it did in the days before hardware transform and lighting. That and the fidelity of modern environments doesn't lend itself well to brush geometry. What is used in its place?
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Sep 26, 2011 05:43
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Pfhreak posted:What is used in its place? Meshes aka models from a 3d package like Maya or 3dsmax.
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Sep 26, 2011 08:01
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And things like octrees and hardware occlusion culling for scene management. One of the primary reasons for BSP was to ensure that things "around the corner" weren't rendered, but we don't really have the same poly limits anymore and our environments are very open, so BSP doesn't make much sense. Honestly though, even though Source is built on BSP, most Valve games don't use it much anymore. The brushes are simple volumes and everything is populated with meshes.
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Sep 26, 2011 08:55
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Vino posted:And things like octrees and hardware occlusion culling for scene management. One of the primary reasons for BSP was to ensure that things "around the corner" weren't rendered, but we don't really have the same poly limits anymore and our environments are very open, so BSP doesn't make much sense. It still uses BSP pretty heavily, actually. Those meshes are displacement brushes. They're not solid though, so it needs an invisible brush under it to actually seal the world. Portal 2 relied pretty heavily on BSP architecture.
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Sep 26, 2011 09:11
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Source stuff seems to be BSP decorated with meshes. Newer Unreal stuff is pretty much entirely meshes.
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Sep 26, 2011 09:17
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One other ask: is anybody here currently stationed at Lucasarts? Also, did we ever figure out specifics on a Game Jobs Megathread GDC Online meetup? THERE MUST BE BEERS
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Sep 26, 2011 15:47
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The Kins posted:Is this online? 
M4rk fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Sep 26, 2011 |
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Sep 26, 2011 16:33
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hailthefish posted:Source stuff seems to be BSP decorated with meshes. Newer Unreal stuff is pretty much entirely meshes. "but" - it's still handy for blocking in test geometry, so it has a clear use. Just, not so much beyond the greybox stage. Splat posted:I think I'll leave this here: Shalinor fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Sep 26, 2011 |
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Sep 26, 2011 17:15
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The Kins posted:Is this online? I think I'll leave this here: http://www.insomniacgames.com/self-exploitation/
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Sep 26, 2011 17:27
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Does anyone have a particularly good place to pick up open-source games designed in XNA 3/4.0? Sourceforge's page seriously looks like it was designed in 1996 and doesn't give any info on the engine/language used to create the game. I guess I'm like a med student looking for a cadaver to autopsy or something, if that makes sense.
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Sep 26, 2011 18:32
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Save Russian Jews posted:Does anyone have a particularly good place to pick up open-source games designed in XNA 3/4.0? Sourceforge's page seriously looks like it was designed in 1996 and doesn't give any info on the engine/language used to create the game. ...The XNA App Hub?
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Sep 26, 2011 18:40
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All this talk about BSP vs Mesh based level development is pretty interesting stuff. My only experience with BSPs is from the Source engine, which required that the entire level be sealed within them, or it would spit daggers at you and ruin your lighting. It sounds like this isn't the case with the Unreal Engine? I've been poking at the UDK docs all morning after seeing Unreal show up as a 'bonus' in a job reqs all over, but navigating the documentation is a highly fractured experience with no clear entry point. Any recommendations on current places to get started with it? Edit: As a software developer with next to no artistic talent who has worked with Unity, XNA, AS3, C++, etc.
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Sep 26, 2011 19:17
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Jan posted:...The XNA App Hub? As far as I know, my student-level entry to the app hub doesn't allow me to actually download anyone's stuff to test/decompile, just upload my own stuff. Are the forums worth anything for a complete novice who has some experience with C# (and lacks the ability to actually put together a project because his understanding of XNA game framework-- hell, all game framework-- nears zero)?
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Sep 26, 2011 19:38
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Save Russian Jews posted:As far as I know, my student-level entry to the app hub doesn't allow me to actually download anyone's stuff to test/decompile, just upload my own stuff. DreamSpark accounts can still download samples, though, and a few of them are full games. Maybe not as big as a commercial game, but enough to have an idea of different ways to structure your application. The forums are a pretty good source of information, just don't be that guy that doesn't search before posting the same tired old questions. I gave up supporting people because there's so much white noise from people not even trying to help themselves before asking for help.
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Sep 26, 2011 19:43
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Pfhreak posted:All this talk about BSP vs Mesh based level development is pretty interesting stuff. My only experience with BSPs is from the Source engine, which required that the entire level be sealed within them, or it would spit daggers at you and ruin your lighting. An Unreal level can just be a platform floating in space, though without implementing something to kill a falling player, you would need to manually leave the game if you fell off. 3DBuzz did some videos you can download from the Unreal engine site somewhere, that takes you through the level editor, Kismet (flowchart-based scripting system) and matinee. Unrealscript is covered separately and is what I need to be looking at right now.
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Sep 26, 2011 19:43
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Jan posted:DreamSpark accounts can still download samples, though, and a few of them are full games. Maybe not as big as a commercial game, but enough to have an idea of different ways to structure your application. Awesome, thanks for the help-- that website is really confusing for me to navigate because I haven't figured out what I can/should be looking for and wind up getting a lot of information overload.
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Sep 26, 2011 21:03
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BizarroAzrael posted:3DBuzz did some videos you can download from the Unreal engine site somewhere, that takes you through the level editor, Kismet (flowchart-based scripting system) and matinee. Unrealscript is covered separately and is what I need to be looking at right now. Oh, thank goodness. I've been looking for decent kismet tutorials forever.
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Sep 26, 2011 21:06
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http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/137978.20110927.EA-Sony-revoke-US-users-right-to-sue/ what is everyone view on this particular piece of Drama? Seems mighty unethical and really does not seem like it would hold up in court.
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Sep 26, 2011 23:07
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:It still uses BSP pretty heavily, actually. Those meshes are displacement brushes. They're not solid though, so it needs an invisible brush under it to actually seal the world. Portal 2 relied pretty heavily on BSP architecture. I wasn't talking about displacements, I was talking about static props. I think we're disagreeing on different things. What I'm trying to say is that the BSP in Source doesn't have any detail, only large strokes are done with BSP and the rest is filled in with static props. In Portal 2, the basic rooms (large square boxes) were done with BSP, but then everything else was a static prop or decal or what have you. If you look at a screenshot like this, the only BSP surfaces you're seeing are probably the floor and maybe part of the walls. Everything else is a static mesh or prop or some kind. In some places in the game like when you trekked between testing chambers, there's probably times when you didn't see any BSP brushes at all. They would have been black and too far in the darkness to see.
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Sep 26, 2011 23:21
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Solus posted:http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/137978.20110927.EA-Sony-revoke-US-users-right-to-sue/ Yeah, I doubt it would hold up in court. It's WAY too broad. You can't just get someone to sign a contract saying "You can never sue us ever for any reason". Generally when a contract includes a clause saying "you can't sue us", it's in regards to SPECIFIC events, like a liability waiver. (Note: I am not a lawyer) There are actual games industry lawyers in this thread aren't there? What are your (unofficial) stances on the legality of that clause?
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Sep 26, 2011 23:22
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Vino posted:I wasn't talking about displacements, I was talking about static props. I think we're disagreeing on different things. What I'm trying to say is that the BSP in Source doesn't have any detail, only large strokes are done with BSP and the rest is filled in with static props. In Portal 2, the basic rooms (large square boxes) were done with BSP, but then everything else was a static prop or decal or what have you. If you look at a screenshot like this, the only BSP surfaces you're seeing are probably the floor and maybe part of the walls. Everything else is a static mesh or prop or some kind. In some places in the game like when you trekked between testing chambers, there's probably times when you didn't see any BSP brushes at all. They would have been black and too far in the darkness to see. Nah, even if you take into account prop usage they still use a lot of BSP brushes for detail the props can't do. Portals can't be placed on props or displacements, for example. They hid it pretty well, you never have to place portals around heavy prop usage. Trust me, I've looked through most of the maps, at least in decompiled form, and I've done a lot of mapping for this! Their source maps included with the authoring tools also show some heavy brush usage. I know what you're saying, they're using a lot more models than they used to do, at least compared with L4D1/2, HL2 and TF2, but they still use quite a bit of brushes. Thats actually not a screenshot, its concept art. See all the extra detail on the right side and the broad strokes on the ceiling? EDIT: Lemme get home and I'll post a shot of one of the sources from the authoring tools. EDIT #2: Okay heres the speed fling puzzle from the old aperture sections in the giant spheres. Props on:  Props off: 
Irish Taxi Driver fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 26, 2011 23:31
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Might want to turn off detail brushes too. Dsiplacements are converted to static meshes anyhoo. A lot of other editors have similar stuff now. Radiant/EW has patches, Source has Displacements and UnrealED has terrain/landscape. Pretty much all push out the same thing when it comes to the finished product, the editors will do all the finalizing baking of textures/models. But anyway, the whole BSP thing isn't really working out these days with improvements across occlusion, baked raytraced lighting, dynamic tesselation and good old fashioned lodding. CSG tools are always very nice in editors though as it allows easy blockout workflow for level designers. Radiant/Editworld and Source are very good at this, but UnrealEd can choke on multiple schlongdongs; the widget is based on the pivot, vert editing is a pesky and scaling/transforming isn't grid aligned. The mesh stuff is nice though and the kismet tool MORE than makes up for it. The whole blockout thing in UnrealED is sometimes why sketchup/maya/3dsmax can be better, just because it's a mess! The modelling tools have a better workflow UDK which is weird as heck. But whatever. Oh yeah, Maya/3dsmax/Sketchup is asked for studios that reaquire some LevDev blockout shenannigans if they don't use a tool like UDK/Hammer/Editworld/Radiant. And I'm guessing they don't want much more skill than making some boxes in a very nice level designy way (A lot of discussion, arguing and diagrams and documentation overlayed!) Fishbus fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 00:49
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devilmouse posted:Two things: M4rk posted:If you're doubtful about the inherent strength of your work, emphasize your skills instead. Doubtlessly you've developed organizational skills, iteration skills, coding and design skills, etc. These are things you have to acquire in order to succeed in all categories of games. As long as you have a firm grasp of what's going to be required of you and an open mind, the nature of your past games shouldn't be a gigantic hurdle. Sorry, I'm way late to reply! Those were pretty much my thoughts, but at the CV level I can see why my coworkers are worried - at least when applying to some of the big and well-known studios where I assume due to the quantity of applications they might trim out casual designers. They really, really want to get in on that Eidos Montreal expansion  So for something different, has anyone here worked at Wooga or heard anything interesting about them?
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Sep 27, 2011 01:14
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Hey everyone, I am checking in again to get your opinion on a career choice I am trying to make. My main goal in life at this point in time is to become a video game designer, however, I graduated this spring with a degree in Economics and no design/programming experience, so I definitely don't have the training to make this dream a reality and become a video game designer right now. When I graduated from college in June and was trying to figure out how to obtain those skills, I considered two options: 1) Enroll at another college that offers a game design major and pursue that as a second major (UCSC, USC, Drexel, ect.) 2) Start a career in Marketing, then learn game design skills on my own. I felt and still feel confident that I can learn how to design games without a formal education in the subject, given a year or two of dedicated studying on my own. With this in mind, I picked option 2, figuring that once I had a stable job I would have time to pick up game design skills. However, I haven't been able to land a marketing job in the last three months and am now reconsidering my decision. Would it be smarter for me to take out some college loans, get a part-time job, and head back to school for another two (or three?) years? Goon designers, do you think it's possible for someone working a marketing job to pick up game design skills in a reasonable amount of time? Or would a formal education (and atmosphere in which one is surrounded by like-minded people) be a better option? This decision is causing me a lot of stress, so thanks for your input. Please let me know if there is any other information that would make this easier to answer.
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Sep 27, 2011 01:55
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dylguy90 posted:1) Enroll at another college that offers a game design major and pursue that as a second major (UCSC, USC, Drexel, ect.) To which end - game design degrees are a laugh riot, and teaching yourself "game design" means absolutely nothing at all. You need to be making games if you want to get into the industry, not learning about designing games. Your portfolio is what would get you in. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 02:35
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Shalinor posted:Game design isn't a skill that is much use in isolation, and isn't so much a skill as an instinct you develop over time and experience. You need a solid skill to back it up that gives you value beyond "I have ideas!", and usually that would be programming or art. An artistic background gives you the ability to sell your ideas visually, and a technical background sets you up well for prototyping. Shalinor, you rock, thanks for replying to my post (for the second time!). This makes so much sense to me. However, I am curious what you would think about a technical program like UCSC's, which is a combination of game design and computer science. Would that be a worthwhile time investment for someone interested in making games? As for me, would you recommend continuing trying to get a job in something like marketing while teaching myself how to make games on the side? Are there quicker ways to get a job making games for someone in my position? Thanks for your continued feedback, it has been really helpful!
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Sep 27, 2011 02:49
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I'm busy redesigning a TF2 Vanilla map to make it less poo poo. This level design stuff is hard 
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Sep 27, 2011 03:03
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Solus posted:I'm busy redesigning a TF2 Vanilla map to make it less poo poo. Hardest part is getting people to test and give you useful feedback.
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Sep 27, 2011 03:06
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Anyone work at Splash Damage London or familar with the studio? I'm looking at a Senior UI Artist role there but I'm not sure I want to move back to UK again (currently back in sunny Melbourne). The pay would be slightly less than what I'm getting in my current role although decent by UK standards. I'm a big shooter fan so I know they made some of my favourites in the past, but I haven't heard about any tough conditions within the studio itself and it's closer to London than most other studios (although still an hour out by public transport) which is preferable because I want to be as close to London city as possible if I were to consider moving back to UK.
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Sep 27, 2011 03:11
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hailthefish posted:Hardest part is getting people to test and give you useful feedback. Thats the bit I'm actually looking forward too. Considering the map itself is already played in my comp circuit. the "looks good I'll play it" comments though. Ughhhh
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Sep 27, 2011 03:12
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Edit: ^^^^ "Cool map! Good job!" <--Does that help?  Seriously though, try actual level design forums, and be sure to "prime the pump" by giving lots of thoughtful and detailed feedback yourself on other people's levels. Good thoughtful perceptive feedback is priceless.dylguy90 posted:1) Enroll at another college that offers a game design major and pursue that as a second major (UCSC, USC, Drexel, ect.) To add my $0.02 to Shalinor's, it seems to me that there's quite a large middle-ground between those two extremes. Do you enjoy marketing? I assume you must, since you got a degree in it? I fully agree that you can learn game design skills on your own if you have the self-discipline to do so. I disagree a bit with Shalinor's generalization re: laugh riots...yes, there are lovely "degrees" out there that won't really do much for you, but I've heard good things about some programs as well. At the least, some programs act as a solid organizing structure which allows less-disciplined people to produce a portfolio, where they might not have the focus on their own. If you think you do, then what's to stop you from, for instance: 1) getting a whatever job to pay the bills in the mean time. 2) continue to look for a marketing position, and 3) learn those design skills on your own. This sort of approach, if you want to accelerate it, basically means "gently caress TV and having a social life for the near future", but it's really amazing how much you can produce if you can narrow your focus. Sometimes the satisfaction of creation and design even makes you forget about all the mindless fun poo poo you're missing. If you want to stay a normal, social human being, then it will just take longer. Adjust as needed for your personal mental health.At some point, you'll either find a marketing position that you'll enjoy more than the whatever job that's paying the bills (and that will probably pay better, which = less stress), or you'll develop your portfolio and your confidence enough that you can get hired at a studio, allowing you to skip the marketing job phase. In this economy, I'd avoid adding loan debt to the equation, if possible. aas Bandit fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 03:28
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:Nah, even if you take into account prop usage they still use a lot of BSP brushes for detail the props can't do. ... Yeah, I'm sorry, I wasn't including detail brushes when I said that. I had two very good interviews two weeks ago and it's driving me crazy that I haven't really heard anything from either companies. I know this stuff takes a while, but my dad and two other people I've asked have both said not to bother them, just let them go through their process. But I thought I'd get a second opinion from the goons. Poke them? Don't poke them? Normally I would say, "There's nothing I can do so I won't worry about it," but in this case I'm not sure if there's nothing I can do and I'm somewhat stressed.
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Sep 27, 2011 03:40
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dylguy90 posted:My main goal in life at this point in time is to become a video game designer, however, I graduated this spring with a degree in Economics and no design/programming experience... Depending on the type of economics you studied, you can leverage that into a job! I know CCP has a pair of economists on staff whose sole job it is to manage EVE's economy. We just hired someone who was in i-banking for the past 8 years as a product manager and doesn't know a lick about game design proper. My whole interview with him was around how to simulate and build economies where people are less attached to their wealth than they are in the real world and behave even more irrationally. Rock the hell out of your analysis background to get a job as an analyst at a metrics-driven company and move around from there. Play to your strengths!
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Sep 27, 2011 03:41
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Cool, you guys are awesome. I'll definitely try aas Bandit's plan of spending some time applying to jobs and some working on my game creation skills— right now I am spending all my time trying to get a marketing job, and it's causing me a lot of stress. I think learning to make games will be a good way to remind myself of my goals and WHY I am applying to marketing jobs... so that I can eventually defect and join you guys  As for leveraging my economics education, that's excellent advice. Maybe I'll look for something more analytical than marketing, or seek out an analytical position within marketing. It would be great to get an economics job within the game industry, but frankly I don't think I'll be able to do that with just an undergraduate education. If I were to supplement that with some years of analytical experience, maybe that would help my odds. Good thinking.
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Sep 27, 2011 04:23
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devilmouse posted:My whole interview with him was around how to simulate and build economies where people are less attached to their wealth than they are in the real world and behave even more irrationally. Hahaha that is so evil/awesome.
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Sep 27, 2011 05:13
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So I want to try and do an html5/javascript game on the side (since that's what all the cool kids are doing these days) but I have absolutely no intention of authoring html5 in notepad. Are there any flash-like content/code integrated development tools out there for this stuff yet? I think I read that Adobe is working on something but I don't think it's out yet?
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Sep 27, 2011 05:15
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DancingMachine posted:So I want to try and do an html5/javascript game on the side (since that's what all the cool kids are doing these days) but I have absolutely no intention of authoring html5 in notepad. Are there any flash-like content/code integrated development tools out there for this stuff yet? I think I read that Adobe is working on something but I don't think it's out yet?
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Sep 27, 2011 06:26
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I thought I might try to get some info in the OP about voice acting and games. Since I have gotten this question before and people seem to think they will get a job at Epic or ID as a staff voice over guy. The deal is, there are these unions like SAG and AFTRA that you need to join in order to do work for companies like Valve and EA. These giant companies audition people through agencies just like any other acting profession. So really, if you want to voice act in games you need to just focus on being a voice actor for everything else first. Audiobooks, narrations, etc. All of the games that I am credited in were non-union gigs, and I could not have done them if I were in a union. I got some of my first game related jobs because I modded Unreal and Source engine as an artist, and had some contacts in the indie game scene. Unions make the clients pay a lot more to the actor, so this turns off small game companies to hiring. My strategy for getting into the big titles is to get enough non-union work so that I am more well known, and then when I have done a huge amount of work, I will then join the guilds and start to phase out the non-union stuff by doing them with permission from the unions. I only have credits in 4 published titles as of now, so I still have to keep my day job. Credits: Penumbra: Overture - Frictional Games Penumbra: Requiem The Ball - Teotl Studios. Nuclear Dawn - Interwave Studios. Some (hopefully) well known mods: Black Mesa Eternal-Silence The Nameless Mod -Deus ex, ...like 70 people VO'd for this. a current indie project: Sonic 2 HD - I'm the background artist. no voices thank god. In short: For voice acting, do not join a union too early. Never specialize in games unless you are already rich and/or famous. ChaosTheory fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 07:07
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Couple things for the OC/LA devs, which I know there's a bunch of you: 1) There's an IGDA meeting tomorrow at Obsidian Entertainment's digs, and a panel of hiring managers will be going over the do's and dont's of getting a job in the game industry. Good for students and those who're looking to break in/up. 2) Cal State Fullerton is hving a more or less open-enrollment 48-hour Game Jam event on October 30th. If you're of the hardcore persuasion, spending two days making a game as best you can is pretty cool. And of course, there's always Beer Wednesday same as every week, which is great networking for any level.
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Sep 27, 2011 07:12
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