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Is the independent ending really the best? I was considering going pro-NCR but then I realized that they're stretched too thin and very bureaucratic, and most of the reasons the Great War happened was due to government gently caress-ups, how would I know if history won't repeat itself if NCR is in charge? Obviously Caesar's Legion is worse, they would just enslave everyone and let's face it, I shoot those football-pad wearing cosplayers on sight due to how horrid their crimes are and how stupid they look. Guess who I'm going to nuke in Lonesome Road?
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Sep 30, 2011 17:19
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I like NCR ending or NCR in general despite them being absolutely no different from any other form of inefficient goverment. Still it offers something that resembles security and protection for common people without being too much opressed or crucified at the slightest offense (ala Legion). On the long run Legion might provide more stable and efficient rule with its constant martial law and harsh punishments but drat, they make it really easy to pick sides with the hosed up stuff they do.
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Sep 30, 2011 17:38
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Galewolf posted:I like NCR ending or NCR in general despite them being absolutely no different from any other form of inefficient goverment. Still it offers something that resembles security and protection for common people without being too much opressed or crucified at the slightest offense (ala Legion). I think more than anything that the Legion would've benefited from post-ending gameplay. You would be able to see if Caesar's idea of Hegelian dialectics actually worked, or if they stayed the same oppressive fucks they are in-game. The bone they throw us with Dale Barton isn't really enough. I'm also not really sure how the whole ""independent traders living under Legion rule" thing works. Would they enslave your wife and daughter, or consider them your property or something? Do you pay them taxes? Do they let you drink and take chems, as long as you don't try to sell it to them? It seems kinda vague. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 30, 2011 |
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Sep 30, 2011 17:43
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I think they let free traders be "free" at the danger of being nailed to a crucifix if they go too far. Trade is crucial for everyone, even moreso in the goddamn nuclear wasteland so i doubt they will shoot themselves in the foot by enslaving trader families or such. Though the Roman empire had this tendency of keeping vassal state heirs as "wards" so it might be the case aswell. I wanted to like the Legion before playing the game, expected something with its own nobility and such but it turned out to be a bad dudes in skirts except the Ceasars babble about NCR. They are just too goddamn evil to join and maybe the wasteland wanderer me in the future might have opted to join them because the other option seems to being flayed alive but current me just snipes the fuckers from a safe distance.
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Sep 30, 2011 17:59
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I think the main thing underlining NCR victory is that they're killing themselves with their constant drive east. Sure, they won the Mojave, and now the people there are going to live in relative peace and stability, but it glorifies Kimball's expansionism (and Oliver's block-headed dipshit-rear end tactics). The NCR aren't going to stop with the Mojave: they want America, and then where? Ultimately that's NCR's real flaw. Cut them off in the Mojave, toss Oliver off the dam, send them back (and don't turn Hanlon in so he can denounce Kimball's expansionism with a clear name) and let them run their own land the way that's best for everyone 
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Sep 30, 2011 17:59
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Dush posted:I think the main thing underlining NCR victory is that they're killing themselves with their constant drive east. Sure, they won the Mojave, and now the people there are going to live in relative peace and stability, but it glorifies Kimball's expansionism (and Oliver's block-headed dipshit-rear end tactics). The NCR aren't going to stop with the Mojave: they want America, and then where? Don't worry; I'm sure the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel will gently caress the NCR over if they ever get that far. I don't think some NCR conscripts will do well against dudes with whatever modified Enclave Power Armor and weapons the Captial Wasteland BoS is going to have. 
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Sep 30, 2011 18:07
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closeted republican posted:Don't worry; I'm sure the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel will gently caress the NCR over if they ever get that far. I don't think some NCR conscripts will do well against dudes with whatever modified Enclave Power Armor and weapons the Captial Wasteland BoS is going to have. No shut up that's not canon 
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Sep 30, 2011 18:12
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closeted republican posted:Don't worry; I'm sure the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel will gently caress the NCR over if they ever get that far. I don't think some NCR conscripts will do well against dudes with whatever modified Enclave Power Armor and weapons the Captial Wasteland BoS is going to have. They broke the Brotherhood in the seat of its power, they can do it again. Although, given the less technophobic nature of the Capital BoS and the fact that an NCR ending of New Vegas can involve a degree of reconciliation with the Mojave Chapter, its not unreasonable to expect such a meeting could go peacefully. I think its a little silly to claim that the NCR's expansion will inevitably kill them. Manifest destiny didn't end that way the first time.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:13
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Noted Literally posted:They broke the Brotherhood in the seat of its power, they can do it again. Although, given the less technophobic nature of the Capital BoS and the fact that an NCR ending of New Vegas can involve a degree of reconciliation with the Mojave Chapter, its not unreasonable to expect such a meeting could go peacefully. Technically it did in the Fallout timeline. It sure wasn't diplomacy and respect for other nations that sparked the apocalypse.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:14
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Dush posted:No shut up that's not canon I don't even want to ask but I have a morbid curiosity...
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Sep 30, 2011 18:15
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Noted Literally posted:They broke the Brotherhood in the seat of its power, they can do it again. Although, given the less technophobic nature of the Capital BoS and the fact that an NCR ending of New Vegas can involve a degree of reconciliation with the Mojave Chapter, its not unreasonable to expect such a meeting could go peacefully. Manifest destiny didn't have to compete with ten-foot tall monsters roaming the plains, packs of feral ghouls, or constant radiation sickness. Also worth noting that natural resources and production are meager to almost non-existent and the NCR uaity-of-life is basically running off the fumes of the remnants of pre-war America.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:16
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The capital wasteland brotherhood is poo poo, their power armor is poo poo, their motivations are poo poo, and nobody likes them not even other brotherhood chapters and I hope they die.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:16
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Brotherhood Outcasts are the best because their black power armor makes them 29% cooler than every other power armor.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:20
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quote:I don't even want to ask but I have a morbid curiosity... I'm sure NMA has cooked up some bullshit reason why F3 isn't canon. I'll see if I can dig up some dumb reason they made that the people here will agree with. Imagine that; NMA and SA agreeing with each other.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:22
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Dush posted:Technically it did in the Fallout timeline. It sure wasn't diplomacy and respect for other nations that sparked the apocalypse. Nah that empires laying exclusive claims to resources, same as the first pair of World Wars. Wolfsheim posted:Manifest destiny didn't have to compete with ten-foot tall monsters roaming the plains, packs of feral ghouls, or constant radiation sickness. Also worth noting that natural resources and production are meager to almost non-existent and the NCR uaity-of-life is basically running off the fumes of the remnants of pre-war America. My impression is that NCR does in fact have industry and agriculture, hence the mass-produced armor and weaponry for their armies, and being able to support a sizeable population. I'm not arguing that success is certain, just that failure isn't guaranteed. Although if I had to bet, I'm guessing that if enough games get made we'll end up with several competing states, to keep things interesting.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:34
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Galewolf posted:I think they let free traders be "free" at the danger of being nailed to a crucifix if they go too far. Trade is crucial for everyone, even moreso in the goddamn nuclear wasteland so i doubt they will shoot themselves in the foot by enslaving trader families or such. Though the Roman empire had this tendency of keeping vassal state heirs as "wards" so it might be the case aswell. If you combine this with the fact that their currency is literally the most valuable in the wasteland (NCR Bux are down after the Brotherhood blew up the Gold Reserves, Legion Coin is made of precious metal), I think you can justify a Legion run pretty well.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:35
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I will happily deny that Fallout 3 is canon. A fun game on its own it was, but it was dumb. :p I think the thing about the Legion is that it's... well, how much can one trust Caesar really? The guy is crazy but he also claims that the Legion will change after destroying the NCR, turning more of its attention to its citizens and such. Meanwhile, Ulysses thinks that the Legion will turn on itself once it finally reaches the shores of the West.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:49
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I just got the Plasma Defender. poo poo owns  Also, taking bloody mess is the best. I shot a dude with the defender, and he exploded into bits, then the bits melted into goo. Science!
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Sep 30, 2011 18:50
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Leinadi posted:I will happily deny that Fallout 3 is canon. A fun game on its own it was, but it was dumb. :p This is assuming that Caesar actually lives to see the Pacific and that his tumor hasn't killed him yet. If he dies, doesn't Lanius take his place?
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Sep 30, 2011 18:53
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Leinadi posted:I will happily deny that Fallout 3 is canon. A fun game on its own it was, but it was dumb. :p I'd trust the guy who actually served and seen what's going on instead of the leader. Also, I'm pretty sure that it's stated that Caesar's Legion will destroy itself once Caesar dies. Basically, they're hosed no matter what; if they destroy the NCR, they'll start having a civil war amongst themselves, and if Caesar dies before they get there, they'll lose their purpose for fighting because Caesar was the only one that actually knew what the Legion's ultimate goal is. Without him, the Legion is just a band of very violent and cruel tribals who only worked together because Caesar made them do so.
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Sep 30, 2011 18:55
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closeted republican posted:I'd trust the guy who actually served and seen what's going on instead of the leader. Also, I'm pretty sure that it's stated that Caesar's Legion will destroy itself once Caesar dies. Basically, they're hosed no matter what; if they destroy the NCR, they'll start having a civil war amongst themselves, and if Caesar dies before they get there, they'll lose their purpose for fighting because Caesar was the only one that actually knew what the Legion's ultimate goal is. Without him, the Legion is just a band of very violent and cruel tribals who only worked together because Caesar made them do so. I like to think that if the Courier sides with the Legion, that the Courier is essentially the Augustus Caesar of the Legion. Caesar got the ball rolling, but Augustus took it and ran like his head was on fire. It would have been an interesting ending for the Legion. Far better than the Got your head put on a coin ending. If you killed Caesar, you could wage a coup d'etat against Lanius and the other field commanders after running off the NCR and end up controlling the Legion. Your karma level and previous quest decisions could have either had you steering it towards settling and becoming a developing Empire in truth, keeping it roughly the same, or foregoing all pretenses of being a nation and instead turning into a massive barbarian horde that roamed, raped, and pillaged the outlying NCR territories. I'm really kind of sore about the Legion in general. It has tons of potential and as a new faction you didn't have to worry so much about retconning old material. But it really gets castrated for the sake of having a clear antagonist to the NCR.
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Sep 30, 2011 19:04
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Wolfsheim posted:For the record, your NCR rep resets when you actually talk to Crocker, not the guy outside the Lucky 38. I know this because I walked in the embassy at 'Sneering Punk' status with every MP in the building calling me an rear end in a top hat and telling me to leave, and then after speaking to him for two minutes they were patting me on the back and I was 'Accepted'. Word travels fast, I guess. I was "Idolised" with both NCR and Legion before Lonesome Road, "Wild Child" after; when I hit the Tops, Sharp-Dressed Legion Man and Generic NCR MP both roll up on me, and upon checking after their dialogues, I was back to "Idolised" again. So, I went ahead and killed all the Forlorn Hope officers, rescued the NCR prisoners at Nelson, blew away Dead Sea from behind, and completed one of the Gun Runners Arsenal challenges by spearing almost every named Ranger and a few NCR officers in the head. I are a People Person.  Dead People. 
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Sep 30, 2011 19:53
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The way I'm currently angling towards ending things, I want to support NCR against the Legion but I want New Vegas itself to be independent. I haven't really decided who I want to be "in charge" of an Independent Vegas yet, so I was happy to see with careful quest management I can put off the decision till I've gone down both paths a bit. It just feels right that Vegas should be independent, it feels like a Vegas thing to do/be.
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Sep 30, 2011 22:59
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Jerusalem posted:The way I'm currently angling towards ending things, I want to support NCR against the Legion but I want New Vegas itself to be independent. I haven't really decided who I want to be "in charge" of an Independent Vegas yet, so I was happy to see with careful quest management I can put off the decision till I've gone down both paths a bit. The NCR always fights the Legion regardless of anything you do, no 'angling' required. As for independent Vegas, you don't actually pick who runs it, its always watched over by Yes Man and the Securitron army. You just get the option to say either "leave this group alone" or "I just killed the poo poo out of this group." You don't get to give it to anyone.
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Sep 30, 2011 23:18
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My ideal ending is passing securitron control to the Followers of Apocalypse. Why can't I do this, Rope Kid? 
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Sep 30, 2011 23:19
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Leinadi posted:I will happily deny that Fallout 3 is canon. A fun game on its own it was, but it was dumb. :p In ED-E My Love and Lonesome Road you can find out ED-E came from that Enclave base you nuked in Broken Steel, sorry man. Also Veronica mentions the Outcast Civil War if you chat her up.
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Sep 30, 2011 23:20
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Berk Berkly posted:Hell, have you played Old World Blues? If a apocalyptic toaster and a hedonistic bio-lab, and light switches with jealousy issues doesn't change your perspective, I don't know what will. The devices in The Sink are not sentient or AIs, you can find that out in a conversation with the butler program. Mobius apparently deliberately designed them with quirky pre-programmed conversational options.
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Sep 30, 2011 23:20
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ClearAirTurbulence posted:The devices in The Sink are not sentient or AIs, you can find that out in a conversation with the butler program. Mobius apparently deliberately designed them with quirky pre-programmed conversational options. Muggy might be different, though, since 0 made him, not Mobius.
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Sep 30, 2011 23:24
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Jerusalem posted:It just feels right that Vegas should be independent, it feels like a Vegas thing to do/be. Vegas isn't Vegas if it's not run by ruthless mobsters. And by process of elimination, I'm the biggest mob around.  And I, too, just recently discovered Vault 11, completely randomly while exploring on a new playthrough. That's pretty hosed up. I actually slightly misjudged the Shocking Twist at the end; I was expecting it to exile you or be some big test of courage without actually killing you, so I was still sitting in the chair with about 15 HP left when the movie ended. I've also found that Max Charge cells in the YCS/186 makes me a happy energy weapons user, albeit one with a crippling weapon repair kit addiction.
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Sep 30, 2011 23:25
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ClearAirTurbulence posted:The devices in The Sink are not sentient or AIs, you can find that out in a conversation with the butler program. Mobius apparently deliberately designed them with quirky pre-programmed conversational options. I'm thinking about modifying my actual toaster with some kind of small speaker and loading a device with sound files from the game sometime when I have a day off work. I'm not telling my girlfriend anything about it.
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Sep 30, 2011 23:26
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:My ideal ending is passing securitron control to the Followers of Apocalypse. Why can't I do this, Rope Kid? The followers are too idealistic and would probably gently caress it up somehow. The correct answer of course is to give Vegas to the King.
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Sep 30, 2011 23:57
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SpRahl posted:The followers are too idealistic and would probably gently caress it up somehow. Kinda hard to give Vegas to a dead man 
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Oct 1, 2011 00:12
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Kinda hard to give Vegas to a dead man I took Vegas just fine, thank you very much.
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Oct 1, 2011 00:25
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Kinda hard to give Vegas to a dead man You and me, at noon, revolvers. King is the coolest cat in Vegas and you must pay.
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Oct 1, 2011 00:26
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Seriously, King is the most chill sonuvabitch, even when you bring up what a oval office Pacer is, he's pretty much,"Yeah that's true but I can't blame him and he's a good buddy to me " Plus he's so happy when you bring Rex back 
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Oct 1, 2011 00:37
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GRA is great and all, but am I the only one annoyed that I the new mods only work on GRA guns? I mean, I know that the bethblog poked fun at it already, but really, why can't I put these nails through any baseball bat?
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Oct 1, 2011 00:51
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Assumethisisreal posted:GRA is great and all, but am I the only one annoyed that I the new mods only work on GRA guns? I mean, I know that the bethblog poked fun at it already, but really, why can't I put these nails through any baseball bat? Dude via FormSpring asked: posted:WMX/E pulled off new mods a hell of a lot better than GRA did. Seriously, how hard is it to just make the old weapons moddable, rather than spamming a bunch of new ones that are EXACTLY THE SAME? J.E. Sawyer via FormSpring posted: posted:The engine used for Fallout: New Vegas handles load order for .esm/.esp files differently on each platform (PC, PS3, Xbox 360). For purposes of this discussion, let's talk about the three that are relevant: FalloutNV.esm (the master .esm for Fallout: New Vegas), Update.esm (the patch) and GunRunnersArsenal.esm. I was going to paraphrase it but this is much better.
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Oct 1, 2011 01:01
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Jerusalem posted:Seriously, King is the most chill sonuvabitch, even when you bring up what a oval office Pacer is, he's pretty much,"Yeah that's true but I can't blame him and he's a good buddy to me The King is the most goony sonuvabitch, he sits around running his little cosplay kingdom while all his buddies gently caress everything up without him realizing it. I went in really trying to like him, but he's just so loving thick that I took his dog and never came back.
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Oct 1, 2011 01:04
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Wingnut Ninja posted:The King is the most goony sonuvabitch, he sits around running his little cosplay kingdom while all his buddies gently caress everything up without him realizing it. I went in really trying to like him, but he's just so loving thick that I took his dog and never came back. The King is pure in motivation, one of the only people in Mojave who is. He found a building dedicated to an incredibly cool man who people worshiped, and he decided he wanted to emulate that great man and pass on his message of having a good time, singing, dancing and making out with pretty girls.
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Oct 1, 2011 01:08
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I wonder how many more times rope kid's gonna have to explain the .esm/.esp conflict thing.  Patience of a saint.edit: should've included an explanation as an in-game note with GRA.
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Oct 1, 2011 01:08
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