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Vino posted:I've been looking around and colleges and universities. Since I never went to college and I have zero credits, the plan is to find somewhere to build my academic track record and then transfer to a more reputable institution. A community college might not sound interesting, but it will start getting you credits that will actually transfer towards a CS degree at a state school. Take it from someone who's transferred schools, check the course standards for your state schools/community colleges and do coursework that's going to transfer. It's almost never worth it to spend money on a class if it's not going to count directly towards your degree goal; the time-equivalent of the money you'd spend on extraneous coursework would be better put to use on side projects or self-education. "Intermediate C++" is probably going to be a bullshit class, but chances are it will transfer as the equivalent of whatever Computer Science II is in your state institutions. DeVry classes might even legitimately be more interesting, but they're also not helping you work towards your goal of actually graduating with a CS degree someday (assuming that is your intention). speng31b fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 02:15
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Schools like Full Sail, Devry, and Digipen aren't accredited by regional institutions (only national ones like ACCSC) meaning most of your credits from there are essentially useless for credit transfers to traditional universities.
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Oct 1, 2011 02:37
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Vino posted:I've been looking around and colleges and universities. Since I never went to college and I have zero credits, the plan is to find somewhere to build my academic track record and then transfer to a more reputable institution. Vino posted:Some of the higher level courses are stuff like "Advanced Artificial Intelligence for Game Simulation Design" and "Multiplayer Online Game Programming" which is a hell of a lot more intensive than the "Intermediate C++" bullshit I would find at a community college. Vino posted:At some point I want to switch to one of the local universities and I'm looking at UCSD and SDSU. Does anybody have any opinions of the general reputations of their CS departments?
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Oct 1, 2011 03:01
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Lurking Haro posted:There is a bug with SFML 1.6 and ATI/AMD Catalyst drivers that keeps programs from initializing as I had to learn the hard way during the Gamedev Challenge. Just start with a snapshot of SFML 2. I've had that problem too, but oddly enough using the static libraries fixes that problem. It was explained on the forums somewhere.
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Oct 1, 2011 05:42
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ShinAli posted:I've had that problem too, but oddly enough using the static libraries fixes that problem. It was explained on the forums somewhere. Last time I checked, The ATI problem was the only really gamechanging issue with SFML, and it's been fixed in the development version. The great thing about SFML is that it's under active development and the guy responsible for it personally responds to just about every forum thread, so any questions/problems you might have were probably already answered. Actually the really great thing about SFML is that it's a simple solution for rendering anything 2d accelerated automatically by OpenGL. It's one of the few C++ libraries I've worked with that can be safely used for rapid prototyping without a bunch of complications.
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Oct 1, 2011 05:48
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Another reason for game developers not to buy ATI hardware. As an artist it drives me loving nuts with the amount of graphical bugs I've encountered with my 4870 (and the lack of CUDA support for some 3d applications). Never again.
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Oct 1, 2011 06:15
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Red vs Green up in this thread? Say it isn't so!
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Oct 1, 2011 06:39
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ceebee posted:Another reason for game developers not to buy ATI hardware. As an artist it drives me loving nuts with the amount of graphical bugs I've encountered with my 4870 (and the lack of CUDA support for some 3d applications). Never again. You can use whatever you want for development, but in the end it has to run on the player's rig. After all, ATI makes up a big chunk of the market.
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Oct 1, 2011 10:56
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Lurking Haro posted:You can use whatever you want for development, but in the end it has to run on the player's rig. After all, ATI makes up a big chunk of the market. And on school funding, do not go to credit unions until you have exhausted the federal subsidized loans. Those are free money with absurdly low interest rates. Look at pell grants, then university/etc grants, then subsidized loans. Then... seriously consider what you're doing before you take more money. If you can't get by without private loans, there is a high likelihood that your program is way more expensive than you should be looking at / you need to plan to work more during college. If you do take private loans, make drat sure your job prospects are guaranteed to be sufficient to pay said loan. Incidentally, no, I wouldn't put games in that group, unless the degree you're getting amounts to a CS degree, in which case I'd still recommend looking at a cheaper actual CS program. EDIT: VV That's the option I would recommend. Community College -> Actual College, and teaching yourself / building a portfolio along the way. DeVry's other degree programs tend to be fair crap, I can't imagine their shiny new game development degree is any better. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 15:32
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tyrelhill posted:Schools like Full Sail, Devry, and Digipen aren't accredited by regional institutions (only national ones like ACCSC) meaning most of your credits from there are essentially useless for credit transfers to traditional universities. Full Sail and Digipen I don't know about, but this isn't actually true for Devry. That's the only reason that I'm considering that program. I could do some time at a community college but I would actually be learning something at Devry. I called SDSU and they said that any regional accreditation (which Devry has) would transfer to SDSU. Problem is like people said, it's more expensive. Even out of state tuition at the community college (I haven't established residency yet) is cheaper than Devry. I would have to wait until January to start (ugh) but it would be a ton cheaper. My one other option is to take a lighter course load at the community college and then do SDSU Open University courses as well, which are basically non-student attending SDSU courses for college credit, which apparently transfers to a degree.
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Oct 1, 2011 19:15
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Shalinor posted:And on school funding, do not go to credit unions until you have exhausted the federal subsidized loans. Those are free money with absurdly low interest rates. Per H. Res. 365, "in 2011, the average borrower graduating from a 4-year college left school with roughly $23,000 of student debt, but compounding this burden, only 56 percent of 2010 graduates were able to find work following completion of their studies according to a study by the John J. Heldrich Center for Workforce Development at Rutgers University." Petition: Forgive Student Loan Debt to Stimulate the Economy and Usher in a New Era of Innovation, Entrepreneurship and Prosperity (White House) Petition: Want a Real Economic Stimulus and Jobs Plan? Forgive Student Loan Debt! (MoveOn) You can read Dan's thoughts about this issue here. Credit unions have the kindest terms among all financial institutions. The absolute best loan to get from a credit union is called a share-secured loan, which allows you to borrow against your savings and continue earning dividends with 3-5% APR across specific terms. If you're going to owe someone, owe people you can talk to, people who want your business, and people who are more flexible than the federal government.
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Oct 1, 2011 19:44
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Black Eagle posted:You need to meet certain criteria to qualify for subsidized loans. Hence - I'd still recommend using them before going private. Borrowing against savings at that point would then also be nice, but how many students applying for student loans have said savings to borrow against? Now, unsubsidized stafford... those are a bit more scary, unless you've got a plan, and there's generally no good reason to go with them over a CC, beyond simple convenience. But like I said, if you're dipping into loans that heavily, you may also want to re-evaluate the cost of your education or how many hours you're working to support yourself. EDIT: VV Oh, lovely. In that case I retract my statement, and second the CC recommendation. Thank you, United States, for further screwing your students in debt. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 20:21
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Shalinor posted:Yes, but they're not terribly difficult criteria to meet for a student, and their interest rates will be well below what you can get from a credit union. (EDIT: Or at least, that's how it was last time I poked around - if CC's can beat the Stafford rates, that would be interesting to see) I misspoke before about share-secured loan rates. APR is actually 3-5% plus the share savings rate. Adraeus fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 20:53
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I hate borrowing any kind of money, so I paid my way through four years of college and exited debt-free. It was hard work, but I don't worry about paying anyone anything (well, aside from my credit card bill, gotta stop buyin' all these games).
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Oct 2, 2011 00:01
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I don't have anywhere else to put this, but the other day at work we were baking builds for the consoles and the Ps3 build that came out ended in 360 while the Xbox 360 one, which was a bit behind, ended in 333. I just felt it was an interesting bit of irony. 
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Oct 2, 2011 01:56
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So I'm in college working towards a computer science degree, but pretty soon I'm going to need to start applying for jobs and I need to know what I should put on resumes. Even though I'm a computer science major, I'd much rather do design stuff. Should I apply for a design position and mention my CS background or go for a programming position? Should I start with QA? I've also done music for like dozens of games (seriously a lot), should I mention this or leave it out, and if I do mention this should I put down all of the games I've done music for or just the best ones (in terms of my own work or the product as a whole)? Lastly, I've also made my own games, the "biggest" of which is a really stupid one called Barkley Shut up and Jam: Gaiden. Should I put this on resumes? Does this count towards anything? I never talk about it in real life because I'm embarrassed by it and I know most people wouldn't "get it". Should I leave it off of a resume? I'm almost positive a potential employer wouldn't "get it". I'm sorry for all the questions. I really have no idea if much of the work I've done is worth anything. I'm just sort of clueless and nervous!
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Oct 2, 2011 02:02
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Chef Boyardee posted:So I'm in college working towards a computer science degree, but pretty soon I'm going to need to start applying for jobs and I need to know what I should put on resumes. Even though I'm a computer science major, I'd much rather do design stuff. Should I apply for a design position and mention my CS background or go for a programming position? Should I start with QA? I've also done music for like dozens of games (seriously a lot), should I mention this or leave it out, and if I do mention this should I put down all of the games I've done music for or just the best ones (in terms of my own work or the product as a whole)? Lastly, I've also made my own games, the "biggest" of which is a really stupid one called Barkley Shut up and Jam: Gaiden. Should I put this on resumes? Does this count towards anything? I never talk about it in real life because I'm embarrassed by it and I know most people wouldn't "get it". Should I leave it off of a resume? I'm almost positive a potential employer wouldn't "get it". r2x fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Oct 2, 2011 |
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Oct 2, 2011 02:22
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Having finished a game, ridiculous parody though it may be, seriously puts you above hundreds if not thousands of other wannabe designers applying for the position. Definitely mention your CS stuff, a designer that won't make inane requests that make programmers tear their hair out is a valued commodity. Doing music is good, though I don't know that it'd be a selling point per se. It would be another departments that you could talk to intelligently, which would make your producer happy if nothing else. If that doesn't work, go into programming, it's semi-rare to get crossover from there to design but it does happen. A word of advice on that, though: find one area of programming you really love and specialize in that. The age of the generalist programmer is basically over, companies don't want programmers so much as they want engine programmers, tools programmers, shader programmers, pipeline programmers, network programmers. I know at least down here in SoCal if you're a programmer who specializes in netcode for consoles, Sony or MS or even the Wii, you can more or less write your own ticket and they'll be falling over themselves to hire you. Tools is another good one, as well. I can't tell you how many times I've heard my HR friends bitching about trying to find good programmers in whatever specialty they're low on at the moment. If you don't want to do that, then sure, try to find a QA job, but there's a few caveats. One, go into DEVELOPER QA, Publisher QA is a dank pit from which your career will likely never find escape. If you can get in with a developer, first of all, bust rear end to be the best QA guy you can. No one likes the QA guy who spends more time trying to get promoted out of QA than doing their job. Second, spend your non-work QA time making stuff and showing it to people around the office. Don't just barge into their offices or anything, but talk about what you're working on at lunch. Side-projects fill the nooks and crannies of game development, so you're bound to get a "Hey that sounds neat; can I see?" sooner or later and be able to show off your skills. Toss in the usual QA de-hiring at the end of a project, and sooner or later you'll get a chance to move up. Probably.
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Oct 2, 2011 02:30
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Chef Boyardee posted:So I'm in college working towards a computer science degree, but pretty soon I'm going to need to start applying for jobs and I need to know what I should put on resumes. Even though I'm a computer science major, I'd much rather do design stuff. Should I apply for a design position and mention my CS background or go for a programming position? Should I start with QA? I've also done music for like dozens of games (seriously a lot), should I mention this or leave it out, and if I do mention this should I put down all of the games I've done music for or just the best ones (in terms of my own work or the product as a whole)? Lastly, I've also made my own games, the "biggest" of which is a really stupid one called Barkley Shut up and Jam: Gaiden. Should I put this on resumes? Does this count towards anything? I never talk about it in real life because I'm embarrassed by it and I know most people wouldn't "get it". Should I leave it off of a resume? I'm almost positive a potential employer wouldn't "get it". If your resume came on my desk and I saw Barkley Shut up and Jam: Gaiden you would be put on the top.
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Oct 2, 2011 02:37
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GetWellGamers posted:No one likes the QA guy who spends more time trying to get promoted out of QA than doing their job. Classifications of Testers Classifications of Testers II: The Sequel
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Oct 2, 2011 02:40
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Chef Boyardee posted:So I'm in college working towards a computer science degree, but pretty soon I'm going to need to start applying for jobs and I need to know what I should put on resumes. Even though I'm a computer science major, I'd much rather do design stuff. Should I apply for a design position and mention my CS background or go for a programming position? Should I start with QA? I've also done music for like dozens of games (seriously a lot), should I mention this or leave it out, and if I do mention this should I put down all of the games I've done music for or just the best ones (in terms of my own work or the product as a whole)? Lastly, I've also made my own games, the "biggest" of which is a really stupid one called Barkley Shut up and Jam: Gaiden. Should I put this on resumes? Does this count towards anything? I never talk about it in real life because I'm embarrassed by it and I know most people wouldn't "get it". Should I leave it off of a resume? I'm almost positive a potential employer wouldn't "get it". There is no reason you should even consider going the QA route if you have a CS degree and some games programming experience. Unless we're talking dev in test which some larger companies do have (they're programmers who work in the test org writing test tools and automation). More people would get the Barkley game than you expect, and like r2x says, even if they don't a finished game that was played by a non-trivial number of people is very noteworthy anyway. Getting hired directly as a designer is hard. When it happens it pretty much happens on portfolio, which means you're looking to get hired by somebody who thinks BSUAJ:G is AMAZING. So your best route is probably programmer->lead designer. (typically programmers don't move to junior/associate designer because they can't stomach the pay cut)
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Oct 2, 2011 03:33
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Black Eagle posted:Whenever someone mentions a type of tester, I always think back to these articles: What I'm noticing is that all of the testers here are good at some aspect of the job, which is far from comprehensive as far as QA goes, sadly: The "Feels Bad" Man This tester treats the bug-reporting software as a restaurant comment card or a mood ring. Helpful bugs like "This level is impossible" when it's just hard or "This unit doesn't work right" with no further categorization. Their feelings on a game, level, or feature are the start and stop of their analytical process. The Walking Dead This tester will show up for work ready to do a sixteen hour shift- without having bathed since the last one. Or the one before that. Not so much a lifestyle (hopefully) as a state one can fall into, The Walking Dead will sit and stew in their own juices until you really wonder if they've started to rot. The Aspirator This tester's primary goal in life is to get out of testing. They will spend more time writing e-mails to the devs than actually testing, and while no one looks down on motivated QA (No one really WANTS "lifers" in their QA department outside of QA managers) there's still the expectation that they're paying you to test, not to network and try and get a better position. The Scorekeeper Usually drawing heavily from The Carpet Bomber and The Editor in the linked articles, the Scorekeeper's number one goal is to have the largest bug count in the database, even if they came onto the project late. No bug is too trivial or iffy for the Scorekeeper, they will find any flaw in the game, perceived or actual, and bug it up as soon as possible. Usually have a habit of not researching their bugs to find the root of the problem, instead just writing out the first symptom they experience as the totality of a bug. Often dealt with by paraphrasing Tyler Durden's famous line about Khakis.
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Oct 2, 2011 03:50
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I'm more or less in the same position as you, Chef Boyardee, but I'm going to say that Barkley Shut Up And Jam Gaiden is absolutely amazing and you're doing yourself a big disservice not putting it on your resume. It's basically a cult classic on the internet and owns bones. e: At the very least, it shows that you can make a complete game from top to bottom and that you have a wicked sense of humor. RoboCicero fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 2, 2011 |
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Oct 2, 2011 04:03
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Black Eagle posted:Whenever someone mentions a type of tester, I always think back to these articles: I'm surprising there is no One upper in the classifications. You know, that guy who has to make sure his bug report is better than yours. One of the category comes close, but man I hated working with the guy. loving smarky rear end douchebag couldn't help but try to one up on everything. Even in casual conversations for christ sake.
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Oct 2, 2011 04:06
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Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. It was all really helpful and I'm going to take it all under consideration. Actually, you mentioned tool programming and that's something I enjoy and might consider as a way to break into the industry. Also thanks for all the things you've said about Barkley, but I can think of about a half billion reasons not to list it. For starters, it uses stolen assets and breaks a lot of copyright laws. There's a very thin line, at least superficially, between my game and Legend of the Crystals: Sephiroth vs Hitler VII or whatever else is on Newgrounds or RPG Maker. It's embarrassing to talk about. I just don't know how to explain it in a way that captures the subtlety or whatever. Lastly, it really just isn't indicative of what I'm capable of now. It's pretty old and I can do just about everything I did in Barkley ten times better now. I feel like there's a goon bias for the game or something that wouldn't exist in the real world. Maybe I should write SAGOON on my resumes for a 10% pay raise. Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone. I really do appreciate it. I will definitely ask here again when I have more stupid questions.
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Oct 2, 2011 04:36
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Chef Boyardee posted:Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. It was all really helpful and I'm going to take it all under consideration. Actually, you mentioned tool programming and that's something I enjoy and might consider as a way to break into the industry. Anyhow, what's your most recent work? Can you make something that tops your previous? If so, do so and use that instead.
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Oct 2, 2011 04:42
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Three games I did music for came out this summer, two more will in a week or so and a game I did level design and music for tied for first place with RoboCicero's game in the SA Gamedev contest. I'm working on a lot of stuff at any given time but I'm going to start focusing on one big project pretty soon.
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Oct 2, 2011 04:48
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Chef Boyardee posted:Three games I did music for came out this summer, two more will in a week or so and a game I did level design and music for tied for first place with RoboCicero's game in the SA Gamedev contest. I'm working on a lot of stuff at any given time but I'm going to start focusing on one big project pretty soon.
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Oct 2, 2011 04:52
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Chef Boyardee posted:Also thanks for all the things you've said about Barkley, but I can think of about a half billion reasons not to list it. For starters, it uses stolen assets and breaks a lot of copyright laws. There's a very thin line, at least superficially, between my game and Legend of the Crystals: Sephiroth vs Hitler VII or whatever else is on Newgrounds or RPG Maker. It's embarrassing to talk about. I just don't know how to explain it in a way that captures the subtlety or whatever. Lastly, it really just isn't indicative of what I'm capable of now. It's pretty old and I can do just about everything I did in Barkley ten times better now. I feel like there's a goon bias for the game or something that wouldn't exist in the real world. Maybe I should write SAGOON on my resumes for a 10% pay raise. I've included far less major projects on my resume - the most attention I've gotten is a sidebar mention as part of a PC Gamer article on City of Heroes (they wrote up a little blurb on one of the player story arcs I wrote) - Barkley Shut up and Jam is WAY bigger than that. If you want to get across that you've grown since making it, just include the date you made it on your resume. The other stuff doesn't matter - yeah it breaks copyright law and uses stolen material, but it's essentially a portfolio piece. The art quality isn't what you're trying to sell yourself on, it's the design and writing, and the fact that it's so well known (being able to market yourself is a valuable skill). If you want to highlight more recent projects, you can easily give them more prominence on your resume. I think it would be a mistake not to include Shut up and Jam at all, though.
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Oct 2, 2011 05:05
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Boyardee, I'm now stalking you. Echoing previous sentiments. Pimp that poo poo. I'd hire you today if I had but the position to do so.
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Oct 2, 2011 05:25
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Every developer at the company you'll be applying for has 10 games in their backlogs that are older than Barkley and that they're not as proud of as you are of Barkley. They understand that you can do better now and that you were working with what you had - what they want to see is that you finished something and that it was reasonably successful. Having made and finished the right game for the right audience is a very valuable thing on your resume, even if the audience is a bunch of antisocial spergs like us goons. Put in on your resume.
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Oct 2, 2011 08:56
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Chef Boyardee posted:Lastly, I've also made my own games, the "biggest" of which is a really stupid one called Barkley Shut up and Jam: Gaiden. Should I put this on resumes? Does this count towards anything? I never talk about it in real life because I'm embarrassed by it and I know most people wouldn't "get it". Should I leave it off of a resume? I'm almost positive a potential employer wouldn't "get it". Haha like half of our office (myself included) loving adores that game. Just having all the projects you've mentioned plus that is a huge boon to your chances - demonstrating you can "ship" something like that, stolen assets or no, is a great sign to people looking at resumes. You really shouldn't feel embarrassed at all about it. Anyone worth their salt will be way more impressed that you managed to finish it and release it to give a poo poo about where you got the assets. Also, maybe I'm being too picky (as someone who's had a steady job with a lot of creative freedom), but would you really be happy working for someone who thought less of you for making Barkley or doesn't "get it" in general?
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Oct 2, 2011 09:46
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If I were hiring, I would take the fact that you created something that turned out to be a cult hit, as worth significant amounts of credit to you in my decision making. The fact that you recognize the flaws and IP issues ought to be a strength -- if you can make it clear in the interview (not the resume, stay positive there) how you feel and express how you have learned from your mistakes, and gone into different areas of design, I'd hire you on the spot, because that's a level of insight and clarity that I'd be looking for. Plus there is something to be said for working within the restrictions of a particular format, and yet turning it into something awesome. Compare that to the dude who rips off a mario-type platformer with infringing IP assets, and then proceeds to do it over and over again, never learning.
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Oct 2, 2011 10:56
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icking fudiot posted:Haha like half of our office (myself included) loving adores that game. Yep. You'd be a bit daft not to list it, frankly - a completed game that was not only well-executed but actually fun to play is something very few resumes fresh out of college can claim. I know you're close to it and can see the flaws, but the fact that you can do that just means you're probably well suited for the job. Every designer can talk for hours about things they would like to make better about their games, and if they can't, worry. There's are always compromises that were made based on tech or time or art that you'd love to fix and can't. That said, if you would like a stable income and job security you'll take the CS degree and go into programming instead of design.
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Oct 2, 2011 10:58
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Chef Boyardee posted:So I'm in college working towards a computer science degree, but pretty soon I'm going to need to start applying for jobs and I need to know what I should put on resumes. Even though I'm a computer science major, I'd much rather do design stuff. Should I apply for a design position and mention my CS background or go for a programming position? Should I start with QA? I've also done music for like dozens of games (seriously a lot), should I mention this or leave it out, and if I do mention this should I put down all of the games I've done music for or just the best ones (in terms of my own work or the product as a whole)? Lastly, I've also made my own games, the "biggest" of which is a really stupid one called Barkley Shut up and Jam: Gaiden. Should I put this on resumes? Does this count towards anything? I never talk about it in real life because I'm embarrassed by it and I know most people wouldn't "get it". Should I leave it off of a resume? I'm almost positive a potential employer wouldn't "get it". Dude, for the most part, people in the games industry are loving crazy. Marketing departments and people like me have to try and shield the public, publishers and investors from that fact but it is that, a fact. If you made shut up and jam then yes it should be on your resume. No question. Game devs be crazy rear end nerds.
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Oct 2, 2011 11:55
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Dude, for the most part, people in the games industry are loving crazy. By that logic the Marketing Department that works with Peter Molyneux are either really bad at their job or the biggest geniuses in their field.
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Oct 2, 2011 12:02
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It's hard to tell someone with as much recognition and clout as Molyneux to do anything they don't want to.
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Oct 2, 2011 12:08
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Marketing's job isn't to tell devs what to do, though. It's to tell them what people think, and it's to ensure that everyone is speaking on the same level, with the same understanding -- whether that's putting the game's vision into understandable terms for the audience, or creating an awesome trailer to show intangibles such as story, or an obscure design mechanic.
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Oct 2, 2011 12:25
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n'thing that putting Barkley on your resume would be a good idea. Also, don't discount Programming as a career path. When you're outside the industry, there may be some lingering confusion over what designers get to do, or what programmers don't get to do, that would become clear once you landed a job. If you do go design, at the very least, sell yourself super heavily as a tech designer. A (good) designer with a CS degree and coding chops is worth their weight in gold. EDIT: Or, become a programmer with a small studio. Especially if you're using a pre-existing engine of some kind, you become a tech designer by default 
Shalinor fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Oct 3, 2011 |
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Oct 3, 2011 00:39
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Shalinor posted:If you do go design, at the very least, sell yourself super heavily as a tech designer. A (good) designer with a CS degree and coding chops is worth their weight in gold. Oh god, yes please. I spent at least 4 months trying to find our team a tech designer to take some of the workload off me and the other lead. The engineers turned designers were generally not well versed in design and the designers who could "code" were sloppy at best. P.S. Barkley will easily get you hired somewhere, don't hate on it!
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Oct 3, 2011 01:26
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