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RagnarokAngel posted:It's the only way they can forget the Emperor has their family hostage Is their "family" the Gungan at the end of RotJ?
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Oct 3, 2011 11:53
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People were pointing out some of the minor changes from the link posted before, and some of the tiny dialogue ones are what annoy me the most. See, when Lucas directed he usually took two takes and made the actors say the dialogue exactly as written. Kirshner took many, many takes and encouraged improvisation. So then Lucas goes back and over-dubs some scenes with out-takes that match the script. There's some pretty bad lip syncing in parts of the blu-rays. Also I'd like to think that the hangar Han Solo runs into was the smoking room on the death star. Working as a stormtrooper has got be pretty stressful. I mean, helmets that obscure vision and bottomless pits would leave me a chainsmoking wreck too.
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Oct 3, 2011 13:21
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Grendels Dad posted:So instead of a joke that you didn't get as a kid but can appreciate now you'd rather have a joke that's dumb enough even kids will understand it, but adults will go "Aw Jesus did he run into the beginning of RotJ?" I actually liked Jar Jar too, but I really don't feel like defending that so I'll try to change the subject. The Star Wars movies were always geared towards kids. The OT less so, but it still was. I like to be able to show star wars to my younger nephews and nieces and it's nice when there's things they can relate to and enjoy, so I don't mind the kiddie friendly stuff ... for the most part.
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Oct 3, 2011 13:39
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Gianthogweed posted:I actually liked Jar Jar too, but I really don't feel like defending that so I'll try to change the subject. The Star Wars movies were always geared towards kids. The OT less so, but it still was. I like to be able to show star wars to my younger nephews and nieces and it's nice when there's things they can relate to and enjoy, so I don't mind the kiddie friendly stuff ... for the most part. But you say yourself that the OT was accessible to children even though it wasn't 100% geared towards them, right? Isn't that infinitely more preferable than the dumbed down stuff the PT gives us? And this is ignoring the fact that there is some pretty heavy stuff in the PT, so the "it's for kids" argument isn't really valid anyway.
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Oct 3, 2011 13:43
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Grendels Dad posted:But you say yourself that the OT was accessible to children even though it wasn't 100% geared towards them, right? isn't that infinitely more preferable than the dumbed down stuff the PT gives us? And this is ignoring the fact that there is some pretty heavy stuff in the PT, so the "it's for kids" argument isn't really valid anyway. Yep, I agree and I'm not ignoring the fact. But ep 3 was definitely not 100% geared towards kids. In fact I don't want my kids seeing this one until they're at least 8 or 9.
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Oct 3, 2011 13:45
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Carnaticum posted:People were pointing out some of the minor changes from the link posted before, and some of the tiny dialogue ones are what annoy me the most. See, when Lucas directed he usually took two takes and made the actors say the dialogue exactly as written. Kirshner took many, many takes and encouraged improvisation. So then Lucas goes back and over-dubs some scenes with out-takes that match the script. There's some pretty bad lip syncing in parts of the blu-rays. Like the Dagobah scene, where R2 is vomited out of the swamp. Luke originally said "you're lucky you don't taste very good!", while now it's "you were lucky to get out of there!". Which is of course, like most of the changes, completely pointless. It goes from dry wit to a basic statement of what just happened in the scene. All because Lucas had to have it his way. Prediction: by 2020, Han will reply "I love you too" in the carbonite freezing chamber. draize_train fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Oct 3, 2011 |
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Oct 3, 2011 13:56
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draize_train posted:Like the Dagobah scene, where R2 is vomited out of the swamp. Luke originally said "you're lucky you don't taste very good!", while now it's "you were lucky to get out of there!". Which is of course, like most of the changes, completely pointless. It goes from dry wit to a basic statement of what just happened in the scene. All because Lucas had to have it his way. No seriously, that change is a wonderful glimpse into Lucas's psyche, because it shows that he doesn't give a gently caress about what other people contribute/add to his work ("you're lucky you don't taste very good was an ad-lib by Hamill, after he tried a few takes of the scripted "you were lucky to get out of there."). All he cares about is how he think the movies should be, because in his warped narcissistic fat gently caress mind his "vision" is the only thing that matters. gently caress Lucas, seriously.
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Oct 3, 2011 14:31
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draize_train posted:Like the Dagobah scene, where R2 is vomited out of the swamp. Luke originally said "you're lucky you don't taste very good!", while now it's "you were lucky to get out of there!". Which is of course, like most of the changes, completely pointless. It goes from dry wit to a basic statement of what just happened in the scene. All because Lucas had to have it his way After the Luke/Vader fight in ESB, original Vader tersely instructs an officer to "Bring me my shuttle." Special edition Vader grandly instructs the same officer to "Instruct my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival." Is one of the lines the utilitarian statement of an angry and brooding warrior, and the other the preening whine of a Marie Antoinette? Seems that way to me. Like your example, it's not a big change. But it makes a difference, and all these little changes add up.
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Oct 3, 2011 14:37
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RagnarokAngel posted:The joke was that the stormtroopers are caught in a corner so they have to turn around. But then the gears start turning. You can almost hear them going "Hey wait a second...why are we running? There's 5 of us and one of him!". And Chewie gets the shaft once again.
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Oct 3, 2011 14:45
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Captain von Trapp posted:After the Luke/Vader fight in ESB, original Vader tersely instructs an officer to "Bring me my shuttle." Special edition Vader grandly instructs the same officer to "Instruct my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival." Oh yeah, that's another good one. I was actually thinking about that the other day (what can I say, I belong in this thread), and I agree completely. "Bring my shuttle" perfectly captures Vader's mood at that moment; he's just been rejected by his own son and cut off his hand in blind rage, he's realized that he can't make Luke join him, and he has to face the Emperor again. Obviously he doesn't really want to deal with officers.
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Oct 3, 2011 14:50
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Captain von Trapp posted:After the Luke/Vader fight in ESB, original Vader tersely instructs an officer to "Bring me my shuttle." Special edition Vader grandly instructs the same officer to "Instruct my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival." Eh... This is actually linked to the whole Lambda shuttle inclusion in this movie. I think it used to be he said "Bring me my shuttle," and it cut away to a shot of the same ship Needa used to fly over and apologise to Vader earlier in the film. Now we get to see Vader boarding his common as dirt landing craft. Seriously, this annoys me. I would have thought that since the Emperor got around in one, and that one was part of a top secret rebel mission to destroy a top secret instalation that those shuttles were rare. Nope. The Blackhawk of the fleet. e: My favourite over-dub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaXgK5HRBjk (right link now) Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Oct 3, 2011 |
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Oct 3, 2011 14:54
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draize_train posted:Like the Dagobah scene, where R2 is vomited out of the swamp. Luke originally said "you're lucky you don't taste very good!", while now it's "you were lucky to get out of there!". Which is of course, like most of the changes, completely pointless. It goes from dry wit to a basic statement of what just happened in the scene. All because Lucas had to have it his way. Would have been cool to throw another soundtrack on the BluRays that doesn't have all these little changes, another DTS track would not have taken much away from the video.
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Oct 3, 2011 15:57
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Carnaticum posted:Seriously, this annoys me. I would have thought that since the Emperor got around in one, and that one was part of a top secret rebel mission to destroy a top secret instalation that those shuttles were rare. Nope. The Blackhawk of the fleet. I agree though that the whole scene is unnecessary and undercuts the tension of the Falcon escaping Cloud City with TIE fighters on its tail but cutting in shots of Vader's shuttle slowly flying away then landing.
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Oct 3, 2011 16:16
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draize_train posted:Like the Dagobah scene, where R2 is vomited out of the swamp. Luke originally said "you're lucky you don't taste very good!", while now it's "you were lucky to get out of there!". Which is of course, like most of the changes, completely pointless. It goes from dry wit to a basic statement of what just happened in the scene. All because Lucas had to have it his way. This example is best example. I dont understand why these lines bother Lucas. Lucas knows adults think its the best and he knows its because Kershner's influence, why does he have to overwrite that? And if hes trying to make it more friendly to children, as it is a comman arguement (like the han runs into stormtroopers) The taste bad line is much more kid friendly then they GOOD YOU SCAPED pointless line. What the hell. Edit:Also we should assume the Emperor came on a Star Destroyer or greater and the shuttle was just to get from that to the DS2. Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Oct 3, 2011 |
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Oct 3, 2011 16:18
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Ash1138 posted:Also, your Blackhawk analogy doesn't work considering that a variant of the H-60 is also used as Marine One. The Emperor or Vader could have a pimped out version of the shuttle that looks no different on the outside. Yeah... I'm pretty dumb. Also I guess I'm taking my annoyance with this too far. Maybe I should go outside and play or something.
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Oct 3, 2011 17:43
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Carnaticum posted:e: My favourite over-dub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaXgK5HRBjk that's the actual audio from the 1997 Special Editions. Like, no joke.
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Oct 3, 2011 18:17
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draize_train posted:Oh yeah, that's another good one. I was actually thinking about that the other day (what can I say, I belong in this thread), and I agree completely. "Bring my shuttle" perfectly captures Vader's mood at that moment; he's just been rejected by his own son and cut off his hand in blind rage, he's realized that he can't make Luke join him, and he has to face the Emperor again. Obviously he doesn't really want to deal with officers. Until the Special Editions changed the line and showed Vader going up to his ship, I had always figured that Vader was getting his shuttle to go fly under the city to capture Luke. That was his entire objective here after all, and he'd know (through the Force or something) that Luke was hanging off that TV antenna thing. This added a bit of extra tension for me -- Leia and company were in a race. It had honestly never occurred to me that if that were the case, Vader wouldn't have had time to get up to the Executor for the end of the movie. 
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Oct 3, 2011 18:57
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Ash1138 posted:If that type of shuttle were rare, then it wouldn't make for a very good means of infiltration. If there are tons of that exact type of shuttle flying in and out of the Death Star, that's exactly what you want to use. Also, your Blackhawk analogy doesn't work considering that a variant of the H-60 is also used as Marine One. The Emperor or Vader could have a pimped out version of the shuttle that looks no different on the outside. Yeah, I remember one of the early 90s guides I had mentioning some of the ways Palpatine's personal shuttle was upgraded to be superior to the usual shuttles. Stuff like an experimental cloaking device and its own HoloNet node. Actually, that brings to mind something I was thinking of earlier. The early EU had galaxy-wide communications being really difficult. I remember in Courtship of Princess Leia, I think, it took a few days for Luke to be reached from Coruscant when he was out doing Jedi things, and it's mentioned how it's expensive and rare for ships to have direct access to the HoloNet. Now in the EU you can just call someone up from across the galaxy on your personal comlink (and I think one of the LOTF books even had someone texting over their comlink  ) Obviously it's a reflecting of the modern electronic age, but I think it really takes away some of the sense of size to the SW galaxy and storytelling potential.
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Oct 3, 2011 23:26
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Chairman Capone posted:Yeah, I remember one of the early 90s guides I had mentioning some of the ways Palpatine's personal shuttle was upgraded to be superior to the usual shuttles. Stuff like an experimental cloaking device and its own HoloNet node. The New Jedi Order actually had an interesting take on this. At one point, the Vong send a horde of bug to destroy all the Holonet communications, loving over the Alliance. It then shows how ton of loving systems are taken over and how starships become the messengers.
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Oct 4, 2011 00:07
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Good news, guys. There's still hope for the future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbV5hn_ET0U I'm fairly certain that pretty closely matches my facial expressions when I first saw it.
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Oct 4, 2011 00:08
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Grendels Dad posted:So wait, do you agree that the joke this addition was trying to make came across perfectly without the crappy-looking, shoddily inserted picture? We were already at the point where we disagreed about how Moar Troopers "increased" the level of humor of that scene, so what are you asking for? It's like a split-second shot, it never looked fake to me when I was actually watching it. If you look at a freeze-frame of a lot of the original effects they can look fake as hell too. The intent of the joke is pretty simple, and it's not that the stormtroopers suddenly realize they outnumbered Han all along, otherwise there wouldn't have to have been more troopers at the end of the hallway. The joke is that Han chases after them like a madman, runs into even more stormtroopers, then realizes he's hosed and runs away. The original joke admittedly worked fine, but it's obvious George wanted even more troopers but was probably limited by how many extras he had at the time. The joke definitely isn't ruined at the very least, and in my humble opinion, it makes it slightly funnier. Look, I'm not a fan of most of the changes either, I just think complaining about this one is kind of silly and you're probably only complaining about it because it's a change. Which I think is a totally valid view to take, just don't pretend it's self-evidently super terrible or something.
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Oct 4, 2011 00:40
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Colonel Pancreas posted:Good news, guys. There's still hope for the future. This rules. I just showed the series to my eleven year old sister a few months back, I kinda wish that she hadn't already been spoiled by Lego Star Wars when we got to this part.
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Oct 4, 2011 01:48
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Colonel Pancreas posted:Good news, guys. There's still hope for the future. Just curious, how were you linked to that vid? I found it when Felicia Day retweeted it yesterday.
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Oct 4, 2011 03:04
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:That's uh... Of this I am aware. It's probably the best attempt at destroying a character moment in the whole of the OT. It's also the only one Lucas totally reversed, I think. It doesn't even sound like Luke. Which brings me to another thing that bugs me: Boba Fett screaming as his jetpack malfunctions in RotJ hasn't been re-recorded. So it sounds like somebody else (not a New Zealander) is screaming like a bitch as he flails accross the screen. Its like poetry.
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Oct 4, 2011 03:19
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Epi Lepi posted:Just curious, how were you linked to that vid? I found it when Felicia Day retweeted it yesterday. http://www.comicsalliance.com/
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Oct 4, 2011 03:35
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I watched the bluray versions of all the movies to gether with a bunch of friends yesterday. Only 3 out of 14 people managed to not fall asleep at least once. Heh. I noticed most of the changes, but they are actually not that jarring. Most still don't add value to the movie and are pointless. And then there are the ones that actually make them worse. The current versions are still watchable, but why is George Lucas doing all these changes? Why? So much money spent for nothing.
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Oct 4, 2011 11:26
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Billy Idle posted:The intent of the joke is pretty simple, and it's not that the stormtroopers suddenly realize they outnumbered Han all along, otherwise there wouldn't have to have been more troopers at the end of the hallway. What are you talking about, there weren't more Troopers at the end of the corridor in the original. The joke WAS that they outnumbered Han all along and only realized it when they stopped for a second. The original joke was that Han ran after them screaming like a madman, and they were temporarily flustered because they couldn't deal with it. The originall punchline was that they finally went "wait, why are we even running away", and is now "Aw yeah, now that we're a billion more we can finally get this sumbitch". quote:The original joke admittedly worked fine, but it's obvious George wanted even more troopers but was probably limited by how many extras he had at the time. Yeah, I wouldn't buy any of Lucas' comments about doing these changes because he couldn't do them when filming the OT. That's just him trying to sound clever. "I inserted this rock in front of R2D2 because we didn't have as many rocks back then due to budget restrictions, but now that I can insert rocks digitally they'll be everywhere, as per my original vision!"
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Oct 4, 2011 12:07
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"I'm gonna chase you two fuckers down firing like I'm a crazy rear end as a distraction." "Whhoooa poo poo! There's now seven blasters pointed at me." is going to beat, "I'm gonna chase you two fuckers down firing like I'm a crazy rear end." "Whhoooa poo poo! I chased you two into the stormtrooper storage room." any day of the week. 
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Oct 4, 2011 13:56
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Hungry Gerbil posted:I watched the bluray versions of all the movies to gether with a bunch of friends yesterday. Only 3 out of 14 people managed to not fall asleep at least once. Heh. In my opinion Lucas is a perfectionist but also lacking entirely on perspective. I know people say he's a narcisicst and try and paint him as sinister, I think it's that he always gets these nagging concerns. All artists get them, whether it's writing, film or a drawing. "Oh man I should have done this this way" or "crap this arm is drawn all wrong why didn't I check it first?", and generally these mistakes are so minor no one will ever notice, but it drives the author absolutely crazy. Lucas has the money, drive and power to make these changes whenever something nags him. I don't think it's his "original vision" talking either, some of it might be, but most of it is some retrospective flaw he ends up seeing that literally no one else sees. And that's the problem, this isn't a good thing. As I said before he totally lacks perspective and doesn't think to ASK other people first. Lot of friends of Lucas say that he is notoriously critical of himself and therefore avoids external criticism building on top of it. But again this isn't good, it just makes him only make changes based on his own twisted point of view. When he made the OT he was forced to take advice from other people, it made him confront his own critical-ness and deal with some 3rd party input. But he didn't LEARN from this and so he just went solo on creative design in the PT and the Star Wars revisions.
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Oct 4, 2011 14:14
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Wait wait wait they redubbed Boba Fett? Why?
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Oct 4, 2011 14:24
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RagnarokAngel posted:In my opinion Lucas is a perfectionist but also lacking entirely on perspective. I know people say he's a narcisicst and try and paint him as sinister, I think it's that he always gets these nagging concerns. All artists get them, whether it's writing, film or a drawing. Yeah, perfectionism sounds just right. Perfectionism: the number one cause of ruination of good things and nothing getting done.
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Oct 4, 2011 14:30
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SpookyLizard posted:Wait wait wait they redubbed Boba Fett? Why? Because in the prequels they introduced Jango Fett, (Temura Morrison IIRC), and technically speaking, Boba should sound like him as he's a non-accelerated clone of Jango. That said, I'll take the old Boba's Irish brogue any day of the week.
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Oct 4, 2011 14:51
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I always hated Boba Fett. In the movies he just stands around doing nothing then dies because he gets poked in the back. Lamest villian ever. My friends loved him when we were younger and raved about the bounty hunter books...what I can gather from the book barn thread is that I would just hate him more. Never understood the love.
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Oct 4, 2011 15:27
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Bombadilillo posted:I always hated Boba Fett. In the movies he just stands around doing nothing then dies because he gets poked in the back. Lamest villian ever. My friends loved him when we were younger and raved about the bounty hunter books...what I can gather from the book barn thread is that I would just hate him more. Well you see, Mandalorians
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Oct 4, 2011 15:34
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movax posted:Because in the prequels they introduced Jango Fett, (Temura Morrison IIRC), and technically speaking, Boba should sound like him as he's a non-accelerated clone of Jango. 
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Oct 4, 2011 15:34
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Chairman Capone posted:Well you see, Mandalorians Well yeah, I get that sect of rediculous fans, but Boba got love before the Mado crap got fleshed out.
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Oct 4, 2011 15:48
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I hang a legoman Boba Fett from my backpack zipper. The armor looks pretty cool and is instantly recognizable, that's all. Jetpacks are also pretty sweet.
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Oct 4, 2011 15:58
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Dude had like five lines in the OT and is still crazy popular. His death was kids lame, but his armor is pretty cool and like was said above, pretty recognizable. Did they get the same actor as the dude who played Jango? Also accents are totally learned things, i thought, not genetic. Would surprise me if Boba made an effort to not sound like every Storm Trooper.
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Oct 4, 2011 17:08
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Bombadilillo posted:Well yeah, I get that sect of rediculous fans, but Boba got love before the Mado crap got fleshed out. I think it's more the crazy Mandalorian worship that exists now is the natural outgrowth of the irrational Fett love from the 80s/90s. Back then, they only had Fett to sperg over; now thanks to the EU, they have moved on to the wider world of Traviss and Friends. The one Fett thing I've never understood is how so many people take the "No disintegrations" line from ESB as being some kind of evidence that Fett stands up to Vader or Vader is frightened of/respects him or whatever.
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Oct 4, 2011 17:17
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Chairman Capone posted:I think it's more the crazy Mandalorian worship that exists now is the natural outgrowth of the irrational Fett love from the 80s/90s. Back then, they only had Fett to sperg over; now thanks to the EU, they have moved on to the wider world of Traviss and Friends. Because every other person who follows Vader's orders does so out of fear or gets their poo poo choked when they screw up. The implication there is that this is something Vader has to remind Fett about and in turn Vader has for whatever reason not broken Fett's neck in a previous encounter.
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Oct 4, 2011 17:19
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