I <3 Berserk: Hiatus no longer [~~sunshine ver.~~]

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > I <3 Berserk: Hiatus no longer [~~sunshine ver.~~]

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

I still don't see how he can beat Griffith unless Griffith deliberately forming a human body makes him more of an apostle. I mean, as far as I can tell/remember. The only way this series could have anything approaching a happy ending is with every member of God Hand dead. Do they all answer to a higher power (other than causality or whatever the abstract concept is)? Gutts simply getting revenge isn't enough since we also need closure on the Skull Knight's story and that seems even more improbably judging by what happened when he tried to use that sword on Griffith.

I'd absolutely hate a cop out "I'll fight you as a human" ending but that's never going to happen fortunately. I just can't see how Gutts can win. Having said that, him beating Zodd is going to be spectacular. Has any reason been given why Zodd seems so much stronger than other apostles or what determines their strength? I can only imagine that which is sacrificed being greater creates a stronger apostle being the reason but I can't remember any explanation.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 02:11

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# ? May 16, 2024 22:53

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Jose posted:

I'd absolutely hate a cop out "I'll fight you as a human" ending but that's never going to happen fortunately.

Ah, wait, I misinterpreted this. Nevermind.

I'm pretty sure it's just going to boil down to Guts either finding the sheer force of will or the magical backup to take on enemies of that size. Berserk's strength is it's execution and art, not originality.

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Oct 4, 2011

# ? Oct 4, 2011 02:19

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

I just feel if that had ever been a possibility it would have been when they first met after Griffith became human again. We'll see though.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 02:21

Andrigaar: Dec 12, 2003; Saint of Killers

Jose posted:

I just feel if that had ever been a possibility it would have been when they first met after Griffith became human again. We'll see though.

Are you advocating a time travel ending? Because the only good time travel solution I can think of was between Red Dwarf and JFK.

Still, with how much high fantasy he's throwing in, it'll be goddamn bloody and have shredded wings and burst eyeballs everywhere when it goes down. I just hope I'm not dead of old age when it happens.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 02:44

Schubalts: Nov 26, 2007; People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

Jose posted:

Having said that, him beating Zodd is going to be spectacular. Has any reason been given why Zodd seems so much stronger than other apostles or what determines their strength? I can only imagine that which is sacrificed being greater creates a stronger apostle being the reason but I can't remember any explanation.

I think the reason is that he's one of the oldest Apostles and was a badass even before he changed. He's hundreds of years old and has his own legends, because he would show up at every major battle, to challenge other warriors.

A few of the other Apostles are as strong as he is (or appear to be), though. Irvine (archer), Locus (metal centaur-thing), and Grunbeld (giant dragon).

# ? Oct 4, 2011 02:49

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Jose posted:

Has any reason been given why Zodd seems so much stronger than other apostles or what determines their strength? I can only imagine that which is sacrificed being greater creates a stronger apostle being the reason but I can't remember any explanation.

My guess is that, while the other apostles are loving everything that moves or eating human children just for kicks, Zodd has spent the last centuries honing his skills to near-perfection.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 06:50

hog wizard: Feb 16, 2005; by angerbeet

This is rather accurate, I would bet. Zodd only lives to fight a stronger opponent while all the other apostles care only for power and/or rape.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 16:00

Mr. Vile: Nov 25, 2009; And, where there is treasure, there will be Air Pirates.

I've always assumed that it was partly honing his skills over centuries and partly his initial wish to the Behelit. Becoming an Apostle needs some sort of overwhelming desire that determines what they become. The Count was afraid of death, so he was given a body that kept regenerating and could never die, Rosine was given an elf-like body and so on. Griffith just wanted to climb higher than anyone ever had before, and I've always assumed that Zodd wanted to be the greatest warrior who ever lived.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 16:23

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Griffith had a different Behelit which is why he became a member of God Hand rather than an apostle. But yeah is there a higher power than God Hand or is it just the abstract idea of causality and pre-determined fate that only God Hand aren't part of or whatever.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 16:36

Mr. Vile: Nov 25, 2009; And, where there is treasure, there will be Air Pirates.

Jose posted:

Griffith had a different Behelit which is why he became a member of God Hand rather than an apostle. But yeah is there a higher power than God Hand or is it just the abstract idea of causality and pre-determined fate that only God Hand aren't part of or whatever.

Yeah, but the reason he took the form he did was because he wanted to rise higher than anyone ever had before. I'm pretty sure it outright says that's why he has wings.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 16:53

U-DO Burger: Nov 12, 2007

Mr. Vile posted:

Yeah, but the reason he took the form he did was because he wanted to rise higher than anyone ever had before. I'm pretty sure it outright says that's why he has wings.

I think that was in the chapter that got cut from the manga volumes, so most people wouldn't be aware that you can choose your form.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 16:56

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Jose posted:

But yeah is there a higher power than God Hand or is it just the abstract idea of causality and pre-determined fate that only God Hand aren't part of or whatever.

The answer to this question is in a chapter that was removed because it spoiled things too much too soon.

It's both. :haw:

# ? Oct 4, 2011 21:06

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Is the chapter available online anywhere? I reread Berserk not that long ago and don't remember it.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 21:09

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Jose posted:

Is the chapter available online anywhere? I reread Berserk not that long ago and don't remember it.

I'm not sure if it's kosher to link it, but it's Chapter 83.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 21:17

Zorak: Nov 7, 2005

Here's a link to it I found hosted elsewhere.

http://members.cox.net/psi1/Berserk_v13c083.zip

It's right in the middle of Griffith's awakening, though Miura held it back from being published in volume because he felt it gave away too much.

A lot of the stuff in it has been revealed implicitly and explicitly, though the Idea has not.

# ? Oct 4, 2011 21:18

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Holy poo poo. He's been reading Terry Pratchett. So Gutts now exists outside of destiny correct? Him and Caska both do? I wonder if the series will end with Griffith's defeat, God Hand being defeated or the idea being defeated

# ? Oct 4, 2011 21:27

Zorak: Nov 7, 2005

Jose posted:

Holy poo poo. He's been reading Terry Pratchett. So Gutts now exists outside of destiny correct? Him and Caska both do? I wonder if the series will end with Griffith's defeat, God Hand being defeated or the idea being defeated

It's not quite that. It's more that the Brand marks them as already dead, which means that they're functionally treated as already outside the cycle of fate in the typical sense; as entities they're existence which are already claimed and thus don't exist to fate.

However, it's entirely possible that their intersections with other spiritual entities ARE ordained and controlled, and that them being outside causality being deliberate. Remember that everything about Griffith was essentially engineered. That means Guts, with his weird birth and existence, was also engineered. Guts as a person was created to be the one to awaken Griffith, but it's not like Guts was defined entirely by that. Guts was the trigger for Griffith, but he's also triggered other things (Griffith's incarnation, for example), as well as being as key a player as humanity has, to the point where even Slann is incredibly fascinated by him.

It is entirely possible that the movements of fate and destiny have no real end, but rather flow seamlessly: Guts' intentions and existence is another thing "planned" by the Idea, and it may very well be that Guts has a grand purpose parallel to Griffith that Griffith exists to trigger.

Whooo knoooows though. Remember that what's notable isn't that Guts isn't outside fate entirely, but that he has the ability to affect it now. Remember the fish in the river metaphor?

# ? Oct 4, 2011 21:57

Takes No Damage: Nov 20, 2004; The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.; Grimey Drawer

In 25 years when the series is done that blind brainy God Hand will be sitting there resting his chin on his hands and saying into the darkness of existence "Just as planned" :haw:

# ? Oct 5, 2011 02:00

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

Ulio posted:

Is there any date for the movie? I've been still reading the manga, drat Gatt's is awesome.

January in Japan. It'll be in theaters though so I don't know when we'll get it over here. Here's a cool trailer a fan put together using existing footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X60V733uqDM

# ? Oct 5, 2011 23:23

canned_fruit: Feb 4, 2008

Zorak posted:

Whooo knoooows though. Remember that what's notable isn't that Guts isn't outside fate entirely, but that he has the ability to affect it now. Remember the fish in the river metaphor?

The way I see it from the Idea of Evil chapter is that all of humanity guides fate as a collective through their emotions etc. Potentially all humans should be able to do the fish in the river thing as long as they have the resolve.
Either way Guts' being "outside of fate" is more being outside what the Godhand have been commanded to do than causality. The Godhand exist to conduct God, or the IoE's, will but causality is what actually happens. That's what I got from it anyway.

# ? Oct 6, 2011 12:48

Vakal: May 11, 2008

Does anyone happen to have a copy of the image that Evil Genius used for their translations notes page, but without any text written over top?

# ? Oct 9, 2011 21:15

GrassVelvet: Apr 1, 2010; Everyone drink it, so I'll drink it too!

Vakal posted:

Does anyone happen to have a copy of the image that Evil Genius used for their translations notes page, but without any text written over top?

Here you go

# ? Oct 10, 2011 01:48

Vakal: May 11, 2008

PopularEnergyDrink posted:

Here you go :

Awesome. Thanks.

# ? Oct 10, 2011 19:28

GreenBuckanneer: Sep 15, 2007

Weird request but is it possible to get that in 600x800 in the kindle's greyscale? It'd look nice for a screensaver I think...

# ? Oct 10, 2011 20:04

LordMune: Nov 21, 2006; Helim needed to be invisible.

GreenBuckanneer posted:

Weird request but is it possible to get that in 600x800 in the kindle's greyscale? It'd look nice for a screensaver I think...

Something like this?

EDIT: Uploaded the right image. It looks kind of bad but it is 4-color grayscale, which should be right for a first-gen kindle.

LordMune fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Oct 10, 2011

# ? Oct 10, 2011 20:11

GreenBuckanneer: Sep 15, 2007

LordMune posted:

Something like this?

I haven't tested it yet but that looks good thank you!

# ? Oct 10, 2011 20:13

Bloodyshinta1: Aug 6, 2010

Zorak posted:

It's not quite that. It's more that the Brand marks them as already dead, which means that they're functionally treated as already outside the cycle of fate in the typical sense; as entities they're existence which are already claimed and thus don't exist to fate.

However, it's entirely possible that their intersections with other spiritual entities ARE ordained and controlled, and that them being outside causality being deliberate. Remember that everything about Griffith was essentially engineered. That means Guts, with his weird birth and existence, was also engineered. Guts as a person was created to be the one to awaken Griffith, but it's not like Guts was defined entirely by that. Guts was the trigger for Griffith, but he's also triggered other things (Griffith's incarnation, for example), as well as being as key a player as humanity has, to the point where even Slann is incredibly fascinated by him.

It is entirely possible that the movements of fate and destiny have no real end, but rather flow seamlessly: Guts' intentions and existence is another thing "planned" by the Idea, and it may very well be that Guts has a grand purpose parallel to Griffith that Griffith exists to trigger.

Whooo knoooows though. Remember that what's notable isn't that Guts isn't outside fate entirely, but that he has the ability to affect it now. Remember the fish in the river metaphor?

this is all starting to remind me of Legacy of Kain, i wish that series would make a comeback.

# ? Oct 12, 2011 06:29

Zorak: Nov 7, 2005

Bloodyshinta1 posted:

this is all starting to remind me of Legacy of Kain, i wish that series would make a comeback.

Tony Jay is dead

# ? Oct 12, 2011 06:43

Bloodyshinta1: Aug 6, 2010

Zorak posted:

Tony Jay is dead

THE gently caress?!?!? REALLY!!!!

that's some bullshit, soul reaver 1 is like my favorite game ever.

# ? Oct 12, 2011 07:10

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Bloodyshinta1 posted:

THE gently caress?!?!? REALLY!!!!

that's some bullshit, soul reaver 1 is like my favorite game ever.

A few years ago now, I was very sad.

e: He's like in all of the Infinity engine RPGs, plus Fallout 1.

# ? Oct 12, 2011 18:01

Zorak: Nov 7, 2005

Stephen Fry's voice is slowly becoming Tony Jay's as he gets older though, so there's that.

# ? Oct 12, 2011 18:02

Bloodyshinta1: Aug 6, 2010

not to derail too much, but a new Reaver game that returned to the open world format with an emphasis on vamp slaying instead of killing shadows and puny humans with today's graphics would be beyond awesome. I always thought that the way you had to find ways to kill the vampires by using water, sun light, impaling, or other means was what set SR1 apart from other games.

# ? Oct 12, 2011 19:08

Yeah Man: Oct 9, 2011; And if you had, you know, a huge killer robot at your command, yeah, that would just clutter things up; and a lesser person might want that kind of overwhelming force on their side, but you know - where's the challenge in that?