Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

There were looong periods of Roman history where plenty of high-ranking "Romans" had never even visited Italy. You're fixating on the marble-statues-and-plays Rome mythology that lots of contemporary empires have tried to model themselves on, not the Roman military strategy that made that relevant, which was always 100% about controlling and exploiting barbarians who knew about as much about Ovid or Cato as they did about quantum physics.

Yes the cultural trappings of Rome in the Legion are really superficial, that's because the leadership isn't interested in them except as a generic unifying tribal identity, and also because they're goofy psychotic savages. Caesar wants them to be Romans eventually but they're still not even really at the republican era, when Rome was still just another uncultured backwater full of primitives.

I mean gently caress that's a spergpost right there but if you can accept a postapocalyptic street gang oriented around Elvis impersonators but not a bunch of fascists who mimic the trappings and bloodier strategies of Romans without having their centuries of culture IDK dude.

Ddraig posted:

e: And yeah, the entire Legion's long-term goals are locked up firmly with Caesar. Virtually no other member of the Legion, past or present, shares his ideal. Lanius is a loving psychopath. Joshua was a bloodthirsty maniac, and still is, and there's nobody even close to having the capacity to lead them in any noble (however they manage to get there) ideal beyond Caesar. Once he's dead, they're just highly efficient bandits.

SpaceMost posted:

Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

Don't know what to tell you, dude, they needed a big badguy and the orcs were pretty played out, so they did postapocalyptic cosplay Nazis. Fallout villains have always had some kind of absurd complex backstory.

poptart_fairy posted:

Yeah, if Caesar's dead and you go the Legion route Lanius pretty much fucks the entire Mojave because he's hellbent on killing everyone and everything. Vegas burns, the Followers are slaughtered, etc. He's not a subtle man.

Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

I'm pretty sure Caesar explicitly says on multiple occasions that he's got nothing but a roaming army and New Vegas is to be his "Rome". There's a large occupied area he's emptied of warring factions but nothing to speak of in it but slaves and warcamps.

Zorak posted:

It's be different if the Caesar had amassed any other idealistic individuals around him, or people who share the same ideas and goals for the Legion. Hell, ancient Rome while being a dictatorship still had a noble class and wealthy members which, while not in direct power, provided much needed support to the central powers. Nobles and other people "invested" in a related system are exceedingly important for the kind of system Caesar is building, but Caesar sees that as as a risk for corruption and such. He feels he can trust himself, and ONLY himself, when it comes to this sort of thing, and he can trust Lanius to be a murderous rear end in a top hat since he's simple minded, so he figures his system will work!!

But there's no lasting strength to it. Even if, as he thinks, he could create the hybrid government of NCR-mated-with-Legion and it takes New Vegas as its Rome, the second he's out of the picture, the entire system would collapse. It's an inherent flaw in most benevolent dictatorships when you get down to it. You can have a benevolent and beloved dictator or tyrant who does well by the people and has ideals. But if the system is one where the successor is functionally randomized or comes down to "who is the biggest murderer", the entire system will collapse or move most definitely away from the ideals it was formed on.

It's almost comical in how ill-thought it is. It's fun to bring Arcade with you when you first meet Caesar and he blows up when you step out the door going essentially "What a crock of poo poo!"

Strudel Man posted:

Which is weird, because he sounds a lot more subtle in your conversation with him. People talk about him like he's a ravening beast, and then he's fairly intelligent when you speak to him, and then in the ending slides he's a ravening beast again. Odd.

Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

It's also great because you immediately go from this to your interview with House, who's exactly the same only with capitalism and technology instead of fascism and military strategy, and without the comparison it's not immediately evident what House's deal actually is.

Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

It's also great because you immediately go from this to your interview with House, who's exactly the same only with capitalism and technology instead of fascism and military strategy, and without the comparison it's not immediately evident what House's deal actually is.

Brace posted:

I feel like Caesar's legion, while sure it would make sense if it actually existed in post apocalyptia, doesn't really make sense from a gameplay perspective. They're comically evil compared to any other faction in the game other than the Fiends, and the Fiends actually make sense considering their psychopathic hardcore drug addicts. The Legion would be pretty much unsustainable and the NCR would demolish them in any kind of real word situation. The only time I can even imagine someone siding with them is on a playthrough where you set out to beat the game with them because of curiosity.

SourceElement posted:

If you're playing a "humanitarian" character, going with the Legion is the easiest route to get the Meat of Champions perk.

poptart_fairy posted:

I've just noticed Strudel Man's tag. I imagine it in Caesar's voice and

Zorak posted:

The difference with House is that he knows it's flawed as hell but doesn't even care, and the fact that he's immortal so it doesn't matter "what's next". He can laissez faire himself into eternity basically.

Zorak posted:

Out of curiosity, what's the best approach/ build for a non-lethal character?

Zorak posted:

Out of curiosity, what's the best approach/ build for a non-lethal character?

Zorak posted:

Rephrase: non-violent

Zorak posted:

Out of curiosity, what's the best approach/ build for a non-lethal character?

Star Guarded posted:

Non-lethal playthroughs are kind of a pain. You just pump Speech and take those quest options. Sneaking past everything is kind of boring, and the non-lethal options (golden gloves, bean bag rounds) are fun but your only option after knocking someone out is to run away.

Mods could make it easier. There's probably a mod that lets you steal equipped items/weapons.

Zorak posted:

Out of curiosity, what's the best approach/ build for a non-lethal character?

Zorak posted:

Rephrase: non-violent

Zorak posted:

Rephrase: non-violent

Ddraig posted:

High charisma and have your companions do your killing.

Hey, technically you didn't kill anyone

Starhawk64 posted:

With my Charisma of 7, Boone and ED-E pretty much kill anything before I can even see the enemies or before I can draw my weapon. drat kill-stealers!

Berk Berkly posted:

I wish Animal Friend wasn't so poo poo. Giant Radiscorps, Cadflies and DeathClaws are the real problems in the wasteland which even the second rank doesn't help with. If it did, I could see being able to go full non-violent.

Omnicarus posted:

Animal friend is pretty much awesome. The second rank turns the game into Happy Hour at Shenanigans. Legion patrol near the lake attacks you and bam! a pack of nightstalkers out of nowhere starts mutilating them. Powder Gangers attacking you on the road? Coyotes to the rescue!

Zorak posted:

Rephrase: non-violent

Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

Dude has his obituary prepped and ready to go at any time, he's pretty aggressively cognizant of his own mortality. He just wants to think that he can cheat death forever if he schemes hard enough just like Caesar wants to think his eternal Reich will vindicate him if only he conquers hard enough;