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TjyvTompa posted:I just started reading A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge and...I don't understand poo poo. I've read the first 60 pages and so far I don't understand anything, some kind of wolf people? Does it get more explained later? It just seems like I missed something. It does get explained. I prefer reading A Deepness in the Sky first since I think it eases you into the universe better.
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Sep 23, 2011 04:26
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TjyvTompa posted:I just started reading A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge and...I don't understand poo poo. I've read the first 60 pages and so far I don't understand anything, some kind of wolf people? Does it get more explained later? It just seems like I missed something. I think I'm gonna get slammed for this but..... I picked up A Fire Upon the Deep cause of the huge following he has. It took me 2 or 3 false starts before I actually got into it, but I never really liked it all that much. I don't really remember much about it, but I want to say the whole relationship in the ship was pretty wonky. And the whole idea of some crazy space virus that takes over systems and magically converts people into its slaves, all the while a band of nice aliens that were so cool and awesome just happen to be magically engineered by said intelligence to help it propagate. Also, the ending was a pretty big let down. With all that said, if you just get to the half way point things start to make a lot more sense and you'll be able to follow the story very easily. Nothing every gets really explained however, you just sort of glean basics by character interaction.
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Sep 23, 2011 08:45
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Thanks for all the info. I actually bought A Deepness in the Sky also but I thought you were supposed to read it after A Fire Upon the Deep. I've read about half of the book so far and I'm not really super hooked but I will finish it.
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Sep 25, 2011 10:52
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Well, I finished A fire Upon the Deep and I found it totally forgettable. It wasn't bad but it wasn't anything special either, I found the universe very unexplained and the characters and story were just blah. It had some interesting things, like the "Skroderiders", but overall I wouldn't recommend it. Now I started reading Seeds of Earth by Michael Cobley, I have only read the first 50 pages or so but it shows promise. It seems to follow the same format as The Saga of the Seven Suns where each chapter handles one character. So far I found some small annoyances like for example he has invented many new words for everything so it's hard to keep track of everything, but I guess that will become easier the more I read. It's the first book in a series called Humanity's Fire, has anyone else read this book/series?
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Oct 3, 2011 07:04
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TjyvTompa posted:
Yup, it's a blast if you don't take it too seriously. It's full of homage to big sci-fi films and books and has every plot device you care to imagine squished into a small space. The number of protagonists and variety of settings gives the series a blistering pace which was great for the first two books, however he needs to get his arse in gear and finish up! Anyone read any Paul McAuley? One of his books has a sweet cover with a bunch of spaceships flying past the rings of Saturn.
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Oct 3, 2011 22:48
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gender illusionist posted:Yup, it's a blast if you don't take it too seriously. It's full of homage to big sci-fi films and books and has every plot device you care to imagine squished into a small space. The number of protagonists and variety of settings gives the series a blistering pace which was great for the first two books, however he needs to get his arse in gear and finish up! Awesome, I have Seeds of the Earth sitting on my to-read shelf but I'd forgotten everything about it or why I'd bought it. It sounds great.
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Oct 4, 2011 00:19
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gender illusionist posted:Yup, it's a blast if you don't take it too seriously. It's full of homage to big sci-fi films and books and has every plot device you care to imagine squished into a small space. The number of protagonists and variety of settings gives the series a blistering pace which was great for the first two books, however he needs to get his arse in gear and finish up! I have read about 150 pages so far now and I am hooked. I did order the first two books at the same time and I think the third is about to come out in november if I remember right. I must say I really like the format, both for this book and The Saga of the Seven Suns. Following just one person or a group of persons per chapter gives a nice steady pace I think.
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Oct 4, 2011 13:18
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I WANT to love this genre. So badly. I love the original star wars movies, but I just cannot get into this stuff. I love Sci-fi and fantasy, but none of my favorite sci-fi books would even get close to being called "space opera." Help me, space opera thread. You're my only hope. What should I read to change my mind that is awesome? I've tried Vinge, Weber, and Reynolds. Have not read any Banks.
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Oct 4, 2011 15:52
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I'd say that if you're looking to get into space opera, read either Asimov's Foundation series, Alfred Bester's _The Stars my Destination_, or David Brin's _Uplift_ books. David Weber is a blight on the written word and to be avoided. Vinge is good though so if you don't like his stuff don't know what to say. My current problem with space opera is that Charles Stross ruined the genre for me: his Eschaton series is based on the idea that faster-than-light travel is also time travel, which is actually true according to relativity, and once I understood why that was, no sf with FTL travel in it was believable any more, because time travel is logically impossible (see: Larry Niven's essay "The theory and practice of time travel.") Any help on how to shift my mind to enjoy this stuff again?
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Oct 4, 2011 16:53
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Well, most space opera I know of doesn't literally have faster than light travel. It's all stuff like wormholes, or extra-dimensional travel, or stuff like the Alcubierre metric which aren't technically just a ship going faster than light, so it avoids the consequences of relativity. Alternatively, take heart from the recent CERN neutrino possibility that everything we've thought about FTL physics is wrong.
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Oct 4, 2011 17:21
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Chairman Capone posted:Well, most space opera I know of doesn't literally have faster than light travel. It's all stuff like wormholes, or extra-dimensional travel, or stuff like the Alcubierre metric which aren't technically just a ship going faster than light, so it avoids the consequences of relativity. Yeah, I think the recent CERN bit is my best bet. The problem with "workarounds" like wormholes or an alcubierre drive is that they're still time travel from the point of view of a 3rd party observer.
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Oct 4, 2011 18:14
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The problem with "workarounds" like wormholes or an alcubierre drive is that they're still time travel from the point of view of a 3rd party observer. I don't think they are...There's no physical movement in either one, so no relativity.
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Oct 4, 2011 18:59
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Chairman Capone posted:I don't think they are...There's no physical movement in either one, so no relativity.
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Oct 4, 2011 19:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'd say that if you're looking to get into space opera, read either Asimov's Foundation series, Alfred Bester's _The Stars my Destination_, or David Brin's _Uplift_ books. I did like Stross' Iron Sunrise. I didn't really think of that as space opera, though.
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Oct 4, 2011 19:42
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Llamadeus posted:Well if you travel from one point to another instantaneously you've effectively traveled at infinite velocity. But also one of the consequences of special relativity is that time is, well, relative: traveling from point A to point B instanteously is also impossible because there is no absolute simultaneity for both points, it differs depending on your frame of reference. So you could violate causality by doing things like traveling through your wormhole and sending yourself a message that gets received before you actually send it. But in a wormhole, you're not instantly teleporting from point A to point B instantly across light years, you're traveling a few meters through normal space. The two entry points of the wormhole are at a distance apart, but for objects traveling between them, there is nothing to differentiate it from just going back and forth through an area of normal space. If you create a wormhole and go from one side to another, you're not going to just starting jumping through time as well. And yeah, there's the classic scenario of having a wormhole and accelerating one end to relativistic speeds for a while to make a time portal out of it (Robert Forward did that in Timemaster) but even then it's not a true time machine, because you can never go back in time to a point before the one end of the wormhole was accelerated. Edit: To leverage a space opera connection out of this, if the physics and time travel applications of wormholes is something you're interested in, I would absolutely recommend Timemaster by Robert L. Forward.
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Oct 4, 2011 19:55
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Chairman Capone posted:But in a wormhole, you're not instantly teleporting from point A to point B instantly across light years, you're traveling a few meters through normal space. The two entry points of the wormhole are at a distance apart, but for objects traveling between them, there is nothing to differentiate it from just going back and forth through an area of normal space. If you create a wormhole and go from one side to another, you're not going to just starting jumping through time as well. Yeah, but even there, you've still got a time travel problem. Good explanation is here: http://www.theculture.org/rich/sharpblue/archives/000089.html (it's hard for me to explain myself because it turns out relativity is complicated). Basically, in the real world, you can pick at most two of special relativity, faster than light travel, and/or consistent causality. Special relativity being wrong is probably the easiest path for space opera to take, but otherwise it's a bit of a buzzkill. =( Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Oct 4, 2011 |
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Oct 4, 2011 20:20
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Yeah the problem isn't that faster-than-light travel is simply physically impossible (would take more than an infinite amount of energy to accelerate something to >c) but also logically impossible. Even with the wormhole-tied-to-a-spaceship you could theoretically go back in time and stop yourself from entering the wormhole. Chairman Capone posted:If you create a wormhole and go from one side to another, you're not going to just starting jumping through time as well.
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Oct 4, 2011 20:21
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Chairman Capone posted:But in a wormhole, you're not instantly teleporting from point A to point B instantly across light years, you're traveling a few meters through normal space. The two entry points of the wormhole are at a distance apart, but for objects traveling between them, there is nothing to differentiate it from just going back and forth through an area of normal space. If you create a wormhole and go from one side to another, you're not going to just starting jumping through time as well. But for an observer travelling at a high (relativistic) speeds relative to the wormhole entrances, you can definitely get acausal effects. In essence, because for that observer one end of the wormhole will be in effect "backwards in time" and therefore something travelling through it will violate causality. Roger MacBride Allen's Depths of Time (and sequels) is a reasonably good series which is concerned with wormhole travel, though these are temporal wormholes that explicitly link to the past.
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Oct 4, 2011 20:24
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Sexpansion posted:I WANT to love this genre. So badly. I love the original star wars movies, but I just cannot get into this stuff. I love Sci-fi and fantasy, but none of my favorite sci-fi books would even get close to being called "space opera." Sexpansion posted:I did like Stross' Iron Sunrise. I didn't really think of that as space opera, though. You may want to have a look at Timothy Zahn's Conquerors trilogy if you haven't done so yet - that's essentially straight-up space opera (though of course, in accordance with Zahn's MO, there's a twist/reveal or two to add a little more depth).
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Oct 4, 2011 20:45
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Sexpansion posted:I WANT to love this genre. So badly. I love the original star wars movies, but I just cannot get into this stuff. I love Sci-fi and fantasy, but none of my favorite sci-fi books would even get close to being called "space opera." Say more about why you love the original star wars movies, 'cause that'll make it easier to know which subset of space opera might appeal to you, or if what you like about them isn't actually related to them being space opera.
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Oct 4, 2011 22:11
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Idonie posted:Say more about why you love the original star wars movies, 'cause that'll make it easier to know which subset of space opera might appeal to you, or if what you like about them isn't actually related to them being space opera. A lot of the best space opera has been done in media other than pure text. Flash Gordon's a great example -- it was pretty much all comic books, with a couple movie adaptations.
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Oct 4, 2011 23:03
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hmm starting with space opera? I would recommend the Vorkosigan Saga. It starts off fairly space operary but gets more political as the series goes along. you can read most of the books in the series here for free so it does not really cost you anything. The only book that appears to missing is the 9th? one which is fairly important to the story but if the books haven't got you hooked by then you probably will not care.
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Oct 4, 2011 23:46
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Sombrerotron posted:Have you read the book that precedes Iron Sunrise, i.e. Singularity Sky, as well? I'd consider that more space-opera-esque. It's also a slightly more lighthearted read, and arguably more fascinating, than its sequel. I haven't read Singularity Sky. I only picked up Iron Sunrise because I liked Stross' James-Bond-meets-Cthulhu series so much (called the Laundry series, in case you're interested). I'll have to try that out. As for what I like about Star Wars, I'd say it's hard to pinpoint - obviously nostalgia is a big part of it - but I like the blending of fantasy and science fiction, I think, and the pulpiness of it. But apropos of what Hieronymous Alloy said, I'm not sure that pulpiness translates particularly well to literature. But whatever. Thanks to everyone for the recommendations!
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Oct 5, 2011 13:35
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Sexpansion posted:As for what I like about Star Wars, I'd say it's hard to pinpoint - obviously nostalgia is a big part of it - but I like the blending of fantasy and science fiction, I think, and the pulpiness of it. But apropos of what Hieronymous Alloy said, I'm not sure that pulpiness translates particularly well to literature. But whatever. Thanks to everyone for the recommendations! Another possibility, if you really like pulp, is the old John Carter of Mars books by Edgar Rice Burroughs (the same guy who came up with Tarzan). The first one is titled A Princess of Mars. How awesome a title is that? Technically they're "sword and planet" subgenre, though, not "space opera", as there aren't any spaceships. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Oct 5, 2011 |
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Oct 5, 2011 14:52
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Another possibility, if you really like pulp, is the old John Carter of Mars books by Edgar Rice Burroughs (the same guy who came up with Tarzan). Burrough's 'Beyond the farthest Star', is also pretty cool.
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Oct 5, 2011 15:45
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I am wanting to start on Alistair Reynolds - is Revelation Space the best place to start?
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Oct 6, 2011 09:36
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WINTER IS COMING posted:I am wanting to start on Alistair Reynolds - is Revelation Space the best place to start? I read Terminal World first, and Revelation Space second. My mistake, because Terminal World had a few good ideas but they were swamped in a bland pseudo-steampunk world with dull characters and dull prose, and it nearly made me swear off reading anything else by him. Then a while later I tried Revelation Space and was blown away. It's loving excellent. I'm sure other people will say Chasm City first, but it really doesn't matter. If you want... - noirish urban sci-fi, mixed with a story about a fleet of generation ships, go for Chasm City - a disturbing, almost gothic space-set thriller with cool technology and weird aliens, go for Revelation Space
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Oct 6, 2011 10:20
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WINTER IS COMING posted:I am wanting to start on Alistair Reynolds - is Revelation Space the best place to start? I'll just copy and paste my answer to the same question in the Sci-Fi and Fantasy thread from yesterday. It's basically exactly the same as Hedrigall said. me posted:I'm 3/4 way through Redemption Ark, the second book in the Revelation Space trilogy, having read Revelation Space (book 1) first, and Chasm City second, which is a 'standalone' that is set before Redemption Space, but published between books 1 and 2 of the trilogy. I'm totally loving in love with this universe. Currently at the interstellar chase scene in Redemption Ark. It makes me sad that Absolution Gap seems to be universally hated.
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Oct 6, 2011 12:53
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WINTER IS COMING posted:I am wanting to start on Alistair Reynolds - is Revelation Space the best place to start? Revelation Space is a great universe, although it's frequently said that the ending of the third book is a bit weak. House of Suns is a standalone and it is absolutely excellent, seriously one of my all time favorite sci fi books.
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Oct 6, 2011 14:41
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Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know of some space operas set in our solar system? I can't get into made up space settings for some reason. Asimov's Lucky Starr was a fun silly read cause they were tootin around our planets.
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Oct 6, 2011 16:15
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Rockefeller posted:Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know of some space operas set in our solar system? I can't get into made up space settings for some reason. Asimov's Lucky Starr was a fun silly read cause they were tootin around our planets. John C. Wright's Golden Age trilogy is, and it's space-opera-esque, though it has a LOT of libertarian-fanboy-wankery in it.
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Oct 6, 2011 16:59
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Rockefeller posted:Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know of some space operas set in our solar system? I can't get into made up space settings for some reason. Asimov's Lucky Starr was a fun silly read cause they were tootin around our planets. E.E. Smith's The Spacehounds of IPC, all-interplanetary. Heinlein's The Rolling Stones and Space Cadet cover a good chunk of the system as well, but they're less Space Opera and more rocketpunk. Come to think of it, most of Heinlein's Futuere History work is set squarely in the solar system. And thank you for reminding me of the Lucky Starr series, I loved those as a kid.
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Oct 6, 2011 18:01
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Rockefeller posted:Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know of some space operas set in our solar system? I can't get into made up space settings for some reason. Asimov's Lucky Starr was a fun silly read cause they were tootin around our planets. You could try Simmons' Ilium. But I don't recommend the sequel Olympos...
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Oct 6, 2011 18:54
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Rockefeller posted:Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know of some space operas set in our solar system? I can't get into made up space settings for some reason. Asimov's Lucky Starr was a fun silly read cause they were tootin around our planets. Kim stanley robinson's mars trilogy, bruce sterling's schismatrix plus, john barnes' century next door series. Ben bova wrote a series called 'the grand tour' based on the colonisation of the solar system. It's probably the most space opera of the ones i mentioned but i'm not a huge fan of the series. Space opera is usually not confined to a singular solar system.
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Oct 7, 2011 00:04
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Hedrigall posted:.... Junkenstein posted:.... Trig Discipline posted:.... Thanks guys, my sci-fi from the last decade has been in Peter F. Hamilton's Universes (both) and am wrapping up Song of Ice and Fire so looks like I will be diving into this one.
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Oct 7, 2011 02:14
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branedotorg posted:Ben bova wrote a series called 'the grand tour' based on the colonisation of the solar system. It's probably the most space opera of the ones i mentioned but i'm not a huge fan of the series. Space opera is usually not confined to a singular solar system. I used to love Bova, and I think all of his Grand Tour books have at least interesting premises, but yeah, they can be hit or miss. The best of those I'd recommend are the Moonrise/Moonwar pair, about the creation of the first lunar colony, and Mars, which was written in the early 90s and is a very 1990s view of how the first Mars mission would have gone. Bova's Kinsman Saga and Sam Gunn series might also be worth a look - the former is about an astronaut who (again) goes on to help build the first moon colony, and the latter is about a semi-crazy space entrepreneur. I'd also tentatively suggest S.M. Stirling's The Sky People/In the Courts of the Crimson King, which are alternate histories where the first US and Soviet probes in the 60s discover Edgar Rice Burroughs-esque civilizations on Venus and Mars. They're great premises and I like the world building but they're very, very heavily steeped in Stirling's ultra-chauvinistic machismo and hackneyed Cold War politics.
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Oct 7, 2011 02:59
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Vernor Vinge's "Children of the Sky" is out! Or has been out, I guess. I really liked Rainbows End, actually, but I might hold off on getting this one until I get a few more impressions. Apparently it's a sequel to his first one, the one with the pack-animal aliens.
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Oct 14, 2011 21:27
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RoboCicero posted:Vernor Vinge's "Children of the Sky" is out! Or has been out, I guess. I really liked Rainbows End, actually, but I might hold off on getting this one until I get a few more impressions. Apparently it's a sequel to his first one, the one with the pack-animal aliens. Finished it a few hours ago. As for getting it, (minor, undetailed spoiler) it ends before anything actually gets really resolved, on an obvious sequel hook. Kinda like Back to the Future, The Matrix or Pirates of the Caribbean II & III. Definitely don't read until after you've read A Fire Upon the Deep. If not utterly in love with that, wait for the inevitable next sequel.
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Oct 14, 2011 22:21
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The third book in the series Humanity's Fire, The Ascendant Stars, has been released, just picked it up before work. Anyone else reading this book/series? I really liked the first 2 books so I hope the third one will be as good or better. I only have one complaint so far, the book is really large :)
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Nov 2, 2011 15:50
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TjyvTompa posted:The third book in the series Humanity's Fire, The Ascendant Stars, has been released, just picked it up before work. Anyone else reading this book/series? I really liked the first 2 books so I hope the third one will be as good or better. I have the first two lying around but I have like a million sci-fi series to start. Convince me to take this one up next!
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Nov 3, 2011 00:47
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