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Solkanar512 posted:This is badass and I"m glad to hear it. I just have to ask, were you expecting this sort of response? You stuck around your former company for a long time. I wasn't expecting this sort of turnout, but I understand it. I applied to a lot of places while I was still at my former company, but I wasn't using any professional connections because most of my useful ones still work(ed) at the same employer. If things didn't pan out, I didn't want everyone I worked with knowing that I was looking to bail on them. Once I got the axe, though, my co-workers / managers / connections all got pissed off on my behalf and started recommending me to everyone they could find, whether I'd asked them to or not. (Apparently, being reasonably competent and [seeming] loyal gets you a lot of support with your co-workers. Who'da thunk it? They were actually mad that I got canned.  ) Now that I'm basically bypassing HR slush piles for a lot of the positions, it makes more sense that I'm having better luck in getting interviews.I've got irons in the fire with two big pharma companies and one small-big (subsidiary of a much larger one) right now. One of my former company's managers asked me if I was interested in a different position here at my current town, and while I told him no (it would void my severance if I accepted it), I did go on to tell him that I'd consider sticking with the company and forgoing my severance if they get me a job in the EU / sponsor my work permit. Fat chance of me staying with them otherwise, though. They had their shot at me, and opted instead to give me a two month paid vacation and then pay me off to leave quietly.
Sundae fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 00:52
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Solkanar512 posted:Why in the heck did they set up there instead of Seattle or Bothell? I'm not really sure, but somehow they've been there for 10 years. I think maybe they got a spectacular deal on the building
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Oct 7, 2011 01:34
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Sundae posted:Are any of you guys working in the Cambridge MA area? I've got a strong chance of another job offer coming soon from a company there in the next week or two, but they've already indicated that relocation assistance is out of the question. Anything I ought to know about the rental market that would make it easier to get moved in, should the offer be suitable? (Do I need a realtor to actually get to see any apartments? Any particularly good sites, or are the typical craigslist / apartments.com things sufficient?) My experience with finding apartments in/around Cambridge has always been around the first of September, which is the big moving date and when most leases are up. I imagine apartments are a bit harder to find once the September rush is over. There is still a pretty good turnover so I think you'll be fine. Craigslist has always worked for me. With that said, I've rented two apartments. One was through a realtor (paid half-fee, landlord paid half-fee) and one directly through the landlord. Somerville/Teele Square/Union Square/Ball Square is where most young, working professionals live. It's a pretty nice area, on the Red Line (the best of the subway lines) and relatively cheap. Stay away from Allston unless you want to be surrounded by obnoxious, drunk college hipsters. Brookline/Fenway is a nice area but pretty expensive. Cambridge itself is either really expensive (some plush apartments there) or really cheap/lovely. Some of the apartments are downright slums. Somerville is much nicer than Cambridge. Cheap, spacious apartments can be found in Medford/Malden. The area is tolerable but definitely run down, and very far from public transportation. You pretty much need a car in these areas, but having a car in Boston is suicide. GPS is mandatory because the roads here were designed by a blind schizophrenic monkey. Most apartments/houses in Boston are older and poorly insulated. Be prepared to pay an arm and a leg for winter heating. Actually just be prepared to pay and arm and a leg for the apartment itself. Boston is stupidly expensive. 
polyfractal fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 01:39
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Appachai posted:I'm not really sure, but somehow they've been there for 10 years. I think maybe they got a spectacular deal on the building It can't help with stuff like delivery of supplies or equipment. You'll probably have to wait a day extra or something while your much needed NaCl takes a boat to you! 
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Oct 7, 2011 01:46
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Vladimir Putin posted:It can't help with stuff like delivery of supplies or equipment. You'll probably have to wait a day extra or something while your much needed NaCl takes a boat to you! The even weirder thing is that they sell consumables and robots in addition to the CRO thing, so they are constantly shipping stuff out.
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Oct 7, 2011 01:50
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Oh god, that has to give your shipping and receiving folks fits. I have to ship some of our robots to Canada for repairs and it's always some crazy customs nightmare. Do most of you guys use a central stockroom for your consumables? I'm trying to set up a supply chain for our users for liquid handler tips and it's getting to be quite a pain- we can't set up accurate forecasting so we can't set up standing orders, but ordering piecemeal is problematic to say the least, and I frequently have to overnight tip cases. Stalling a project for a day because the tips are on a boat would probably get me lynched. Epitope posted:Good to know, thanks. I'm talking about a high-throughput screening project with a potential postdoc advisor. It is fun to talk about but I expect the work itself may be tedious- running robots and/or being a robot. Rule #1 is to not be afraid of the robots, unless you are actually running them, then rule #1 (as the laboratory automation safety manager) is be really afraid of industrial robots. Does the site have dedicated HTS staff to help you develop the assay and methods and help you run it? Most of the screens I headed up in academia involved working directly with a postdoc or PI to set up a screen, develop the assay and set conditions/goals/staffing/whatever, and I would either train their staff or I would assist their staff in running the screen. Are the screens fully or partially automated? Industry-wise it was a lot more streamlined, I usually just work directly with directors and resource managers and our RAs are really comfortable working with HTS platforms. The work might be tedious, but a robot's doing it, so who cares 
Bastard Tetris fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Oct 9, 2011 |
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Oct 9, 2011 08:54
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Second round interview is a success; onward to the on-site.  I am pleased with this particular company so far, particularly that they only do oncology and literally do not have a single product enhancement in their pipeline. Thank loving god. REAL SCIENCE!
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Oct 10, 2011 18:28
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Sundae posted:Second round interview is a success; onward to the on-site. You know that just means they can't even figure out how to do a product enhancement, right?
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Oct 10, 2011 21:59
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Appachai posted:You know that just means they can't even figure out how to do a product enhancement, right? Spoiling all my fun.
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Oct 10, 2011 23:25
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Looking for jobs right now sucks, and I have a feeling my previous pay is one of the main things preventing me from finding a job. I got laid off from a large pharma, and I have been interviewing at many startups and smaller companies between 20 and a few hundred people. I had a great interview a while ago where I could tell everyone at the interview really liked me, they brought me back to just have lunch and meet with a ton of people, it was not even an interview, just literally meeting people. They called my references, and I know they were all positive because my boss had me write my own reference :v (and I know everyone well and I know they would give me a good reference). They asked me when I would be able to start and I told them as soon as they needed me. I figured after two interviews which went well, them asking for references, and for a start date, the job was mine and I was worried I would get the offer too soon without time to take a break between jobs. Then I did not get an offer. The only thing I can think of would be my previous pay. When I was there meeting with people, some higher level director was in, and they asked if I wanted to speak with him and I said sure. The only things he asked were pay based, how much I made, bonuses etc. When I told him my pay (~71kish with bonuses included), he instantly said that was too high for them to match, he did not even think about it. I told him it was negotiable, and that for an interesting position I would be willing to take a paycut, but it seemed like he stopped listening. That is really the only thing I can think of for the reason I did not get the job, because the Scientist who was hiring seemed very interested in getting me in there quick, from what my boss told me after speaking with him on the phone. I had another company which seemed interested as well, but they made you fill out an application where you needed to include your pay (had to be a # in the box, could not write negotiable or whatever), and they pretty much went from emailing me every day to ignoring my emails overnight. In hindsight I probably could have put something like 00000. The first company had about 300-400 people, the second 70-80. I have some general idea of pay for these positions, at my large company I was shown the pay scales for each position (I probably was not supposed to see that data), and for my midlevel position it was something like 55k-85k base salary. I was mid 60's. I was also at a startup of about 100 people, and HR accidently sent me the pay of a few people, and I know an entry level RA (1 year exp) there was high 40's, a mid level RA (5 year exp) was mid 50's, and higher level RA (10-15 years) was about 70k (I only saw 3 peoples stuff + my own, so I don't know the range). I have 7 years experience, and I would say I have a pretty solid skill set and resume, I am co-author on 4 published papers and first author on one and tend to work at a higher level than my pay grade. From what I have seen and heard my pay does not seem that extreme. I spoke with a contract agency and mentioned this info and they did not think my pay was extreme, better than average, but not unreasonably high. Plus I am in a very high cost of living area, so most pay in all industries is somewhat higher across the board. Are there just so many people looking for so few jobs that they can just get a postdoc or someone with 20 years experience to work for 50k? I have had numerous phone interviews where it is essentially a bait and switch, where the job description mentions many high level skills and experience needed, and they would like a PhD or very high level MS/BS person for a position, and then mention that the position will be doing very basic stuff like cleaning mouse cages or whatever. Why do you need to have a MS with 10 years experience along with (massive list of skills in job description) to change mouse cages? It feels like every startup I have talked to recently wants to get the highest level person possible for even the most remedial work, it makes no sense and just wastes time. I guess maybe the market is bad enough where they will find someone desperate enough to take any job? It sure as hell was not like this 4+ years ago. I have enough money to last me a while, I am just not sure if I am talking with lovely companies, and that if I am patient I will find a decent position that will not be a huge paycut, or if the whole industry is like that now and I will need to take a 25% paycut to ever find a job again; no point in rejected a bad offer now when I will need to accept a similar bad offer in a year. I guess my question turned more into a venting post. Let me know if it needs to be cleaned up to become readable.
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Oct 14, 2011 20:31
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You are receiving this broadcast as a dream...We are transmitting from the year one nine... nine nine ...You are receiving this broadcast in order t
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My condolences and congratulations on getting laid off from big pharma. Your severance was likely pretty awesome. You didn't happen to be at PFE, did you? (If so, welcome to the club.)Pain of Mind posted:Are there just so many people looking for so few jobs that they can just get a postdoc or someone with 20 years experience to work for 50k? This is absolutely the case. PFE cut how many over the last ten years? 50,000 people? Every other big pharma is doing it simultaneously, and schools aren't slowing down any on the degrees. On top of that, you've got the general recession killing lots of start-ups and putting their staff out to pasture, the general globalization of R&D (or perhaps I should say China-ization) among the companies big enough to pull it off, and this is exactly what you're seeing. There are easily 75,000 unemployed scientists in the USA right now, if not more, across the various parts of the pharma industry. The companies are more or less guaranteed to get what they want for as little as they decide to pay. Someone will take it, because the alternative is starvation.
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Oct 14, 2011 23:04
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I was not at PFE, I was at the other one 
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Oct 15, 2011 00:05
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Sundae posted:This is absolutely the case. PFE cut how many over the last ten years? 50,000 people? Every other big pharma is doing it simultaneously, and schools aren't slowing down any on the degrees. On top of that, you've got the general recession killing lots of start-ups and putting their staff out to pasture, the general globalization of R&D (or perhaps I should say China-ization) among the companies big enough to pull it off, and this is exactly what you're seeing. But but but, there aren't ENOUGH SKILLED WORKERS OUT THERE!!! Oh, and for those of you looking for work in the Seattle area, it's about time I ratted out my former workplace: https://www.iehinc.com They hire primarially through craigslist, so if you see any ads in Lake Forest Park, run away or tell them I said "get hosed". Here are some lovely reviews of the place. Enjoy! Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Oct 15, 2011 |
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Oct 15, 2011 01:29
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Pain of Mind posted:I was not at PFE, I was at the other one Ahhh.... in that case condolences instead of congrats.
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Oct 15, 2011 02:21
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Pain of Mind posted:Are there just so many people looking for so few jobs that they can just get a postdoc or someone with 20 years experience to work for 50k?
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Oct 15, 2011 02:27
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Appachai posted:As someone that just got out of his postdoc, I can tell you most postdocs would murder you and your family for 50K a year. Most of the time postdoc salary is between 34-40K a year depending on experience. NIH guidelines be damned. Woah what seriously? With a doctorate? And not one of those bullshit ones? What field is this, again? Because I've been going by the government pay scale to get an idea of what to put down when applications ask for a salary and for a BS that's almost 33k at Step ONE. I usually put down a range from something like 28k to 34k and talk about it being negotiable based on compensations, but am I way off base? My college's career services thought it was a good range too but maybe they have no idea what they're talking about. Or is it that wages scale abysmally in science?
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Oct 15, 2011 04:09
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They're pretty bad, from my experiences as a newly minted college grad with a B.S. in something vaguely molecular biology-ish. My first offer was with a small ~100 employee oncology company for an RA position creating mouse models. Even with 4 years of very involved undergraduate research and internships they basically offered me 40k and told me to shove off for even thinking about more than that. I was courted by another small biotech for a similar position at 58k a year, which I was absolutely idiotic to turn down (I was turned off that it was an 'indefinite contract' position, but I should have just chased that cash cow). Now I'm working as an entry level research assistant making 40k at a medium sized pharma. It is in a high cost of living area, as were my previous two offers- I just decided to take it and cut my losses as my savings were thinning out. Someone else I graduated with is somehow managing 58k a year before bonuses as a research assistant. I don't really know but it must have to do with enzymes or black magic. canvasbagfight fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Oct 15, 2011 |
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Oct 15, 2011 08:28
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Zenzirouj posted:Woah what seriously? With a doctorate? And not one of those bullshit ones? What field is this, again? Because I've been going by the government pay scale to get an idea of what to put down when applications ask for a salary and for a BS that's almost 33k at Step ONE. I usually put down a range from something like 28k to 34k and talk about it being negotiable based on compensations, but am I way off base? My college's career services thought it was a good range too but maybe they have no idea what they're talking about. Or is it that wages scale abysmally in science? Yeah, it's pretty standard for life sciences. bio, biochem, genetics, immunology. I was an industry postdoc and I got 40k/yr. In general a newly minted BA/BS research associate will make 35-40K in life sciences in pharma.
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Oct 15, 2011 08:41
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Yep, that's pretty normal. (And this is why so many of us whore ourselves out to big pharma. B.S giving you $55-65K, M.X $65-80K, and PhD $80-100K starting? It's a dream come true! ) If you are in sciences and you aren't an engineer or some incredibly rare specialization, your salary will be jack poo poo coming out of college, PhD or not. Nobody else has a job so you look good in comparison, but it's still jack poo poo.
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Oct 15, 2011 16:56
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Those phd salaries are mostly after postdoc by the way 
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Oct 15, 2011 17:13
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Appachai posted:Those phd salaries are mostly after postdoc by the way Unless you have connections! A large number of the chemists in my department got their degrees while working under one of ~6 specific professors (not school, professors). We basically call them up when we have an open position and ask who they recommend from their group. Then we bring them in for an interview, and if they don't totally gently caress things up, we give them a job offer. Sometimes they are post docs, but mostly they are newly minted PhD's.
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Oct 16, 2011 13:41
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I'm talking about life sciences since that's the only thing I have experience with. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a phd level position in that salary range that didn't require postdoctoral experience. Especially in this market
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Oct 16, 2011 19:03
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I think I may have developed a lactose intolerance as of lately... however, our fume hood has been most invaluable in dealing with the evidence of this
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Oct 16, 2011 23:37
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I just got my benefits enrollment form for 2012 (my contract lets me keep my former health insurance plan until Nov 2012 at my former rate). The plan has been closed to employees starting this year. Meanwhile, the other good plan was frozen in 2009. All the remaining plans are pretty terrible... and only the people who got canned get good insurance. Comparison: My insurance (now frozen for employees): $0.00 copays, $20 for specialists, $50 per night, total max of $250 for in-patient hospital stays, $50 for emergency room. $1500 total out of pocket annual max. Prescriptions are all free. Mental health at specialist rate. Non-emergency emergency room at 90%. $150 per month for family coverage. Next best plan: 80% for everything after deductible, $800 deductible, $4200 out of pocket max, $30 for drugs, $1500 max for drugs before elimination of coverage. (Not an out of pocket, a benefit limit.) 70% on mental health, 70% if "emergency room visit not a true emergency", and precertification requirements for everything. $200 per month for family coverage That's not a bad plan at all compared to what a lot of people have, but it's just getting worse and worse compared to what they used to offer. (My plan used to be the second-best plan, for example. There used to be a $500 out-of-pocket with 90% and 95% coverage and a $200 deductible.) Best networking opportunity ever: discovering that the hiring manager you're networking with is taking dance lessons at the same place that you are, and having an informal interview while doing the rumba.
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Oct 17, 2011 03:12
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canvasbagfight posted:They're pretty bad, from my experiences as a newly minted college grad with a B.S. in something vaguely molecular biology-ish. My first offer was with a small ~100 employee oncology company for an RA position creating mouse models. Even with 4 years of very involved undergraduate research and internships they basically offered me 40k and told me to shove off for even thinking about more than that. I was courted by another small biotech for a similar position at 58k a year, which I was absolutely idiotic to turn down (I was turned off that it was an 'indefinite contract' position, but I should have just chased that cash cow). Now I'm working as an entry level research assistant making 40k at a medium sized pharma. It is in a high cost of living area, as were my previous two offers- I just decided to take it and cut my losses as my savings were thinning out. After a BS and three years at a food safety lab I was making $32k and minimal benefits to perform QA and ISO certified calibration work. Now I'm doing quality work in aerospace and making $55k + a metric poo poo ton of benefits and tons of room for growth. Also, airplane factories are loving awesome.
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Oct 17, 2011 20:38
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Hey Solkanar - how did you handle the questions about your ability to work in a different field? I've got a referral to Sikorsky from a friend, and the hiring manager trusts the guy a lot. However, the hiring guy isn't sure how my background fits (which is a fair concern, I think). I know I can do blade stress analysis because I did fracture analysis as part of my classwork in grad school, but damned if I know how I can prove that I can do it at an industry level, and I also don't know how I'd go about answering "why should we hire a pharma scientist to design a helicopter?" when the inevitable question shows up.
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Oct 17, 2011 20:49
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Sundae posted:Hey Solkanar - how did you handle the questions about your ability to work in a different field? So with regards to quality, I stressed that purpose of quality is the same regardless of industry. It's about traceability, consistency, documentation and continuous improvement. It's also about building a working relationship with a wide variety of people at all levels of experience and authority. You can't look down on those below you, and you have to be willing to say no to those above you when the time calls for it. Finally I made a big deal about the seriousness of food safety (people die if I'm lazy) and take the same attitude into commercial aerospace (people will die if I'm lazy). I also mentioned the variety of different ISO/Governmental regulations we had to deal with and how it wasn't a big deal to learn another set. Combined with pursuing ASQ certifications in quality, they weren't afraid that I couldn't adapt to new things. I was up front and talked about why hiring a food safety guy was perfect, so I think you should do the same. That way you can frame the question in your terms and have them respond, rather than the other way around. Don't worry about not being able to do work at an industrial level, you already are. Also come up with situations where you had to stretch yourself in the lab (and you've shared plenty already) and talk about how your last job was basically finding solutions to problems while under the rigors of a private company. You're not a lab rat, you're a high pressure problem solver. This is obvious, but make sure you read up and get excited about Sikorsky. I made a habit of asking the following question during interviews, "What is the difference between a good employee and a great employee", and every last person I interviewed with anywhere said, "Attitude". Being excited to be at the "incredibly large airplane manufacturing plant just north of Seattle" where I now work really sold my interview. This is different from sucking up however. :pTechniques and procedures can always be taught, attitude cannot. I hope that helps! Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Oct 17, 2011 |
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Oct 17, 2011 22:21
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Thanks for the reply, Solkanar.  I just received a rejection from literally everyone I'd interviewed with (except for the one I rejected out in Nebraska). It's like they all timed it so that it'd overflow my inbox at the same time. Back to the drawing board, I guess!
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Oct 20, 2011 16:48
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Sorry, keep at it.
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Oct 20, 2011 18:42
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Eh, I just think it's kinda funny on the timing. I also love how everyone absolutely loves you, thinks you'd be perfect for the position, they'd love to bring you on... oh but we took another candidate sorry try harder. No worries here really. Just takes a little wind out of my sails. One of them was kinda funny because the guy actually named the person who got the job instead of me. (First time I've ever seen an HR person do that!) It was one of my former co-workers who also got laid off. Good for him, I guess! (Maybe that's why they named him; they knew that I knew who he was?)
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Oct 20, 2011 18:55
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I just received a phone call from some HR guy at a 50 person or so start up I interviewed at (I never met HR at the interview) that said they would like to make me an offer, and they will submit all my info to the board of directors to decide on an offer, then get back to me in a few days. At least he did not poo poo his pants when I told him my previous salary unlike the last startup, though I still have no idea what they are going to come back with. I noticed this company has a ton of foreign post docs, over half the people I interviewed with were postdocs from china, it was weird. I am not sure if that is a bad omen or not (cheap)? I have a few questions about the position, as I don't have a good idea what the day to day work would be (the description and skill set of the position I applied to sounded very different than what people I interviewed with talked about). Would it be weird to send an email to the hiring manager, even though he has not contacted me at all about getting an offer? I don't want to have the email be something like "Hey, some HR guy told me I am getting an offer for your position, what would I be doing". Maybe he is waiting until they have an offer put together to contact me? Another thing that is making me anxious is that it was just a phone call at an odd time (like 10pm) from some guy I never met a few days ago, and then no contact since. I know at my last job I was emailed tons of forms and paperwork stuff the second they told me they were making an offer. I am getting paranoid one of my old coworkers or something who I mentioned it to is prank calling me, though it does seem unlikely since none of them seemed that malicious. I really hope it is a real, with a decent offer and the work is not lovely stuff I hate, because after I sent out my resume to a ton of places, I had a flurry of phone interviews and real interviews, and this is basically the last one I have, then I have pretty much applied to all the positions in the area.
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Oct 20, 2011 22:10
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Hey, if you get the job, let me know if they need any formulators or process engineers!
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Oct 20, 2011 22:22
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I thought you mentioned you were not interested in moving to such a high cost of living area.
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Oct 20, 2011 22:32
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Pain of Mind posted:I thought you mentioned you were not interested in moving to such a high cost of living area. I did. I forgot that you were the same guy and didn't realize what area you were talking about. I feel fairly stupid now.
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Oct 20, 2011 22:40
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Pain of Mind posted:I just received a phone call from some HR guy at a 50 person or so start up I interviewed at (I never met HR at the interview) that said they would like to make me an offer, and they will submit all my info to the board of directors to decide on an offer, then get back to me in a few days. At least he did not poo poo his pants when I told him my previous salary unlike the last startup, though I still have no idea what they are going to come back with. I noticed this company has a ton of foreign post docs, over half the people I interviewed with were postdocs from china, it was weird. I am not sure if that is a bad omen or not (cheap)? What kind of vibe did you get when visiting the place?
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Oct 21, 2011 02:49
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The very first thing I noticed was everyone was older. I don't think I saw anyone younger than late 30's. It seemed like they replaced your typical mid 20s to early 30s RA with Chinese postdocs who looked pretty old, or at least act pretty old so I could not estimate how old they were. At other places I interviewed at, people usually tend to ask a little bit of technical stuff to make sure your resume is not a complete lie, and then they start asking whether you like Muse or if you play fantasy football. Here all the postdocs had the personality of a rock, and did nothing but ask detailed technical questions. It was pretty much look at resume, ask question. Tell me every step required for an ELISA, tell me every step required for qPCR, what quencher was used for the flourescent probes? Look at resume more, ask another question, it was very robotic and not personal at all. At least I have an ipod to talk to me if I work there After thinking about it just now, another thing I noticed was it was very quiet and empty. Most places you can hear people talking on the phone, clusters of people either talking science or BSing about football or whatever in the hallways, labs, and cubicals. Here it just seemed completely quiet the whole time. I was just in one corner of the building the whole time though, there could have been more excitement elsewhere. I would definately say it seemed the least friendly out of all of the places I have interviewed at. But it could be that they just did not see any purpose in low level RAs interviewing me so I only spoke with higher level people or something. Either way a job is a job, cannot be too picky if you don't have one. Pain of Mind fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 10:49
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Well, I got the offer, it is 9% less than what I was making (but has stock options which may or Kind of weird to have a 400 person company with some minor revenue from a few products offer ~10k less than a 70 person company with no products. I am tempted to send an email to the people there telling them they are underpaid and should get out.
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Oct 24, 2011 06:36
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This is a copy/paste from the TPS thread, which has somehow come back to life over in PYF. Pharma came up and a few people were asking questions, so I posted a story from back at my old place...Sundae in TPS thread posted:Another problem we faced was that R&D is treated as a supplier who has to woo customers at my former company, where the customers are the business units (who each focus on marketing to specific areas of medicine). We have to develop prototypes, then go have managers pitch them to the business units, who may or may not give us any funding for it. They may also say "thanks for the prototype, we'll send it to Shanghai Research for further work," which never involves giving us back our research budget.
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Oct 26, 2011 18:16
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I assume you can't say where that was? Because holy poo poo dude
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Oct 26, 2011 21:43
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I think we all actually know what that company is.
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Oct 26, 2011 21:53
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