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Since we're talking about the messiness of NV (and FO3 for that matter) I really think that while the level designers and concept artist probably had a firm vision of the feel they wanted to give players, it just kinda backfired with too much clutter. Seriously: if you live in a loving desert, you'd want to keep the indoors clean as best you can. It's bad enough with all the sand flying around. The old isometric perspective and then level of graphics of FO 1&2 just seemed more in line with how society would keep its immediate living space. Even New Reno mostly had clean streets. On a completely unrelated note I just discovered the goddamned Fire Axe. 
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Oct 7, 2011 18:21
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poptart_fairy posted:If I hear about Mike and Ralph's one more time... Hungry? Thirsty? Horny? 
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Oct 7, 2011 18:22
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I thought most of the villages in NV were alright. New Vegas itself was pretty tiny and Freeside felt like a waste of time but taken with the sprawling outlying ruins in the south etc. it gave a pretty good feel of scale, even though you're never more than like a block away from the walls. I think it was because you could pretty much go explore and get lost a little out there, since you weren't arbitrarily chained up it felt like you could probably just keep going forever, and since there weren't a whole lot of really strong visual landmarks and stuff like the sewer entrances were so easy to miss there was never the sense you'd really thoroughly combed the place over. It worked a lot better than, say, the Capitol Wasteland, where everything's either a maze of invisible walls so you immediately sense how bounded it actually is or lumped into one big open space where you can look out and see the whole thing at once. Or Camp Searchlight, where there's a whole town there but all but like four buildings are boarded up and can't be entered. FO1 and 2 cities worked because at the time all locations in all games were tiny, and players were taught to just always take it as read that this four-block area represents all of Manhattan or whatever. Restricting movement or leaving everything implied doesn't inherently make a space feel bigger. Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 18:26
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Hungry? Thirsty? Horny? You know, drat, I am horny. I'd better go see the whores at this Wrangler place. I... alright, there's this guy. He's fairly slick but still... not what I was thinking of. Well, who's this over here, I- Oh my GOD. Your FACE. Your SKIN. Jesus! I don't want ANY of that action! C'mon, this place doesn't have ONE good whore? What... what's that? A protectron... ? Room for two, James.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:26
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Yodzilla posted:You thought Freeside was too small? It was a mostly empty piece of poo poo town that took way too long to get around for no good reason given how sparsely populated it was. If there weren't walls everywhere it wouldn't be too bad but splitting it into two and making some parts like a maze didn't do anything but make it annoying. Well yeah, that's kind of what I meant. The segments and the walls are a huge problem. The entire New Vegas area would feel a lot more like a huge city if Westside, Freeside and the suburb houses around the Gun Runners were just a huge, open area that seamlessly blend into each other. That and more population would fix like 90% of the issues I have with the game.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:28
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Hungry? Thirsty? Horny? More than anyone I hate you. You, personally.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:29
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Hungry? Thirsty? Horny? Considering my last few characters have been drug bloated cannibals, I find these questions redundant.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:31
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Zorak posted:I just beat Dead Money for the first time. That was rather very good! I found myself liking my companions in there more than the main storyline ones, though you do very little with them really. It's mentioned briefly in OWB, and you even get the opportunity to score one of those creepy hazmat suits, but its not really expanded upon. I think ~*~Avellone~*~ wanted it to specifically be kind of vague and mysterious. Having also just beat Dead Money again (for the fifth time, I think?) you guys weren't kidding about Dean. You can literally pass any other check with him, and even be nice to him the entire time, but if you pass that very first Barter 50 check he will not only not let it go, he'll keep bringing it up for the rest of the DLC! He mentions it every time you interact with him as a companion, he'll ask why you're trying to be nice after being such a dick when you set up the holograms for him for the gala event, and inside, after he starts shooting at you, his random taunts reference it! Jesus Christ, Dean, let it go. quote:Where's the best place to sell my gold? I think the GRA DLC is probably the first opportunity to actually get your money's worth when selling, but you'll still only need maybe 1/3 of it to buy all the new stuff.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:32
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:invisible walls Incidentally I found that those were much more apparent and annoying in F:NV :I I've heard most people say that they haven't even noticed those at all in F:NV but I ran into them all the goddamn time during my first run when I actually went to explore every goddamn nook and cranny in the Mojave Wasteland.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:32
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poptart_fairy posted:More than anyone I hate you. You, personally. You want someone dead? I mean really dead?
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Oct 7, 2011 18:34
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Burning Mustache posted:Incidentally I found that those were much more apparent and annoying in F:NV :I I don't remember encountering them in any Gamebryo game, yet in NV they are everywhere. I speak as a habitual mountain climber.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:35
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How far advanced is the NCR inside its core cities anyway? I've heard it compared to our real world state of living, but no idea where people are getting the info from.Wolfsheim posted:You want someone dead? I mean really dead? 
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Oct 7, 2011 18:35
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Wolfsheim posted:You want someone dead? I mean really dead? I only hear that once or twice through every run. No one asks me to kill Cass. No one.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:36
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Burning Mustache posted:Incidentally I found that those were much more apparent and annoying in F:NV :I Really? I mean, they were clearly there in a bunch of places, and any arbitrary barrier in an open-world exploration game is gonna be obnoxious, but mostly I found they worked kinda seamlessly into the mountaintops. And since those were restricted to a few clearly indicated areas and there's always plenty of other directions to explore (and always at least one pass shortcutting through the mountain to anywhere interesting beyond) they were pretty inoffensive and easy to deal with as just a terrain feature to be bypassed, like all the boulders. All the buildings made inaccessible by a couple boards over the doors bothered me way more. The Capitol ones were always bounding you in on all sides and always, always, always interposed between you and wherever you wanted to go; whether that was some mission objective behind a wall of rubble you could climb 90% of the way over before getting stopped cold or just this big theoretically interesting city to be explored. The map design did everything possible to call attention to them.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:42
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Burning Mustache posted:Incidentally I found that those were much more apparent and annoying in F:NV :I Yup. "Hey, what's this dome thing I'm seeing up in the hills? I heard rumours about some Ghoul community, lemme hillcliOH poo poo GIANT RADSCORPION... OK, climbing agaOH poo poo NIGHTSTALKERS... jesus poo poo howdy. Once morOH poo poo DEAT" Actually, I survived (not by much) everything, but I kept getting shifted off the ascent by invisible walls. I was crouched down about four feet away from the hillside by the invisible wall when I found the Deathclaws, and never could get near that dome, until I use the IWR mod and found... well, nothing much.  I've also snuck into the actual Nuclear Test Site (none of the buildings are accessable), (pre-Lonesome Road) past the Canyon Wreckage, and beyond the hills behind the Cazador-infested Tribal Camp. I think I quit going beyond the boundaries after those - IIRC, I could move around some, but if I went very far I'd fall through the map. In other news, yeah, the Sharecropper Farm is deserted except for the NCR guards. Didn't try the greenhouses yet. Ygolonac fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 18:44
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Rather Dashing posted:I don't remember encountering them in any Gamebryo game, yet in NV they are everywhere. I speak as a habitual mountain climber. For Oblivion and FO3, most of the invisible walls are pretty much exterior walls. In New Vegas though, they have them in a ton of places. Like by the Quarry and around the central mountain range. They are also in a few other places, mostly by mountains. Probably explains why the amount of downloads for the invisible wall removers in New Vegas greatly exceeds that of the FO3 and Oblivion ones combined on the Nexus sites.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:51
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poptart_fairy posted:How far advanced is the NCR inside its core cities anyway? I've heard it compared to our real world state of living, but no idea where people are getting the info from. It's not clear. But Shady Sands itself was totally clean and built up in Fallout 2, we know the NCR has about a million people and a lot of territory. They can maintain an air force and an extended military expedition outside their borders, they beat the Brotherhood of Steel in a war, they have newly manufactured technology, and NPCs in New Vegas talk some about the state of the country. It's not as safe as Legion territory but it doesn't sound too bad. If the NCR has the resources to go imperialist conquering, even with its field armies stretched thin and the expense being a drain on the country, it still implies that they're doing reasonably well. If it were lovely they wouldn't have been able to afford the attempt at conquering the Mojave in the first place. Also, it's mentioned that tourists travel the 15 to Vegas to gamble, so that wealth and leisure time implies things can't be too bad in California.
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Oct 7, 2011 18:52
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Ygolonac posted:Yup. "Hey, what's this dome thing I'm seeing up in the hills? I heard rumours about some Ghoul community, lemme hillcliOH poo poo GIANT RADSCORPION... OK, climbing agaOH poo poo NIGHTSTALKERS... jesus poo poo howdy. Once morOH poo poo DEAT" I wasted an embarrassing amount of time trying to get up to the big dome before giving up and going into the rocket facility.
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Oct 7, 2011 19:03
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Grinning Goblin posted:For Oblivion and FO3, most of the invisible walls are pretty much exterior walls. In New Vegas though, they have them in a ton of places. Like by the Quarry and around the central mountain range. They are also in a few other places, mostly by mountains. Probably explains why the amount of downloads for the invisible wall removers in New Vegas greatly exceeds that of the FO3 and Oblivion ones combined on the Nexus sites. There absolutely have to be invisible walls in the Quarry to keep the Deathclaws from wandering out of it and killing low level players and it makes sense that the central mountain range is impassible since there are a bunch of passes through it and they want to funnel you through them.
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Oct 7, 2011 19:43
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Also reloading bench options for casting gold bullets
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Oct 7, 2011 19:56
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Too bad there isn't an unmarked quest for creating your own currency backed by your own gold reserves.
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Oct 7, 2011 19:58
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Doug Lombardi posted:Too bad there isn't an unmarked quest for creating your own currency backed by your own gold reserves. That'd be awesome. "Welcome to gun runners. Would you like to pay for that in caps or Courier Bux?"
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Oct 7, 2011 20:00
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Doug Lombardi posted:There absolutely have to be invisible walls in the Quarry to keep the Deathclaws from wandering out of it and killing low level players and it makes sense that the central mountain range is impassible since there are a bunch of passes through it and they want to funnel you through them. But there's an open hole at the top of the Quarry that Deathclaws can easily gain access to from inside. And then when you go outside of that hole there are even more Deathclaws just kind of milling around. I really don't think that's the reason. e: there are lots of places in this world where there are invisible walls just kind of chilling on top of small rocks piles and such. sure it's only a few feet to walk around but what's the hard of letting people go over? that kind of stuff wasn't in FO3
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Oct 7, 2011 20:02
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Yodzilla posted:But there's an open hole at the top of the Quarry that Deathclaws can easily gain access to from inside. And then when you go outside of that hole there are even more Deathclaws just kind of milling around. I really don't think that's the reason. I think that was the "official" explanation. Which I don't buy at all because after using IIWR and later on, OFT, I never had a Deathclaw wander south of that area. There is actually a pretty big buffer in that area too, which makes me think that may have come later in the development cycle and they just kept the walls in. Makes me wonder why those Khans in that area never got killed.
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Oct 7, 2011 20:09
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Grinning Goblin posted:I think that was the "official" explanation. Which I don't buy at all because after using IIWR and later on, OFT, I never had a Deathclaw wander south of that area. There is actually a pretty big buffer in that area too, which makes me think that may have come later in the development cycle and they just kept the walls in. Makes me wonder why those Khans in that area never got killed. What didn't you hear of the NCR reports of Khans training them and becoming the Masters of the Deathclaws?
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Oct 7, 2011 20:12
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Yodzilla posted:e: there are lots of places in this world where there are invisible walls just kind of chilling on top of small rocks piles and such. sure it's only a few feet to walk around but what's the hard of letting people go over? that kind of stuff wasn't in FO3 It really was, but yeah it's generally a pretty bizarre decision in a game that so often rewards nosing around a bit and figuring out clever ways to get on rooftops/over obstacles with loot or sniping points to have a whole bunch of places arbitrarily walled off like that isn't just going to make people try harder
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Oct 7, 2011 20:34
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I tried to get to the Great Khans over the mountains but sadly that was impossible too. There's even a very clearly defined path at one point that leads all the way up but then just ends at a loving invisible wall. And don't give me any of that bullshit about how the developers wanted you to walk around for a reason because if I can fight my way through all those Cadazors then goddamn I deserve to get over that mountain. The only good part of invisible walls is when it works against game design and you can run around up in the air on invisible ledges. You can find some retarded sniper points like that and completely break the game.
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Oct 7, 2011 20:58
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^^^^^^ Yeah, exactly. Have a look at this invisible ledge I came across. That just tells me the developers weren't particular interested in the quality of their work. Too bad. (The perspective is kinda bad, but I'm floating 10 meter or so out from the slope.)  Doug Lombardi posted:There absolutely have to be invisible walls in the Quarry to keep the Deathclaws from wandering out of it and killing low level players and it makes sense that the central mountain range is impassible since there are a bunch of passes through it and they want to funnel you through them. Ahhh come on, monsters tend to stay within their area. You don't see scorpions from hidden valley run around inside black mountain or coyotes hiking it to NCRCF. And funnelling players is good, but what if you want to sneak on top of the funnel and have the drop on anything down below. It's an RPG, not Doom3. There shouldn't be invisible walls at all. It utterly contradicts the purpose of having an open world. Death by Cranes fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 21:14
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Most of the invisible walls constructed in F:NV were done out of concern about sight lines into various locations. Most of these concerns turned out to be exaggerated, unfortunately. You tend to encounter them much earlier/more easily in F:NV than F3 because Goodsprings is located so close to the edge of the world and a number of steep mountains overlooking Primm.
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Oct 7, 2011 21:20
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Death by Cranes posted:
Coyotes can't get into the NCRCF and Black Mountain because of their mighty fences.
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Oct 7, 2011 21:31
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rope kid posted:Most of the invisible walls constructed in F:NV were done out of concern about sight lines into various locations. Most of these concerns turned out to be exaggerated, unfortunately. You tend to encounter them much earlier/more easily in F:NV than F3 because Goodsprings is located so close to the edge of the world and a number of steep mountains overlooking Primm. At least for me, the effect was definitely exacerbated by the fact that I could clearly see a large chunk of worldspace on the map West of Goodsprings, but it took me a while to accept the fact that there was no way to get there. With FO3, the invisible walls generally followed a straight line along the extremes of your Pip-boy map, but it meanders a lot more in NV. Also, this was back before Lonesome Road was a thing, so the vague graffiti directed at your character at the entrance to the Divide made trying to circumvent the invisible walls even more tantalizing.
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Oct 7, 2011 21:44
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rope kid posted:Most of the invisible walls constructed in F:NV were done out of concern about sight lines into various locations. Most of these concerns turned out to be exaggerated, unfortunately. You tend to encounter them much earlier/more easily in F:NV than F3 because Goodsprings is located so close to the edge of the world and a number of steep mountains overlooking Primm. But isn't that the beauty of the open world? Being able to climb up and behold the scenery, getting a glimpse of what you'll encounter later. That is actually precisely what happens the moment you kill the four bloat flies in Goodsprings Cemetery and in the distance you see New Vegas. And at night: in all its neon glory. I never once found an invisible wall where I could got an idea of purpose. Most times I just found a way around anyway. So if the intent was to have the player wait to discover locations, it seems kinda half-assed. Sorry to say so, but that how I perceived it. Edit: And about Goodsprings being close to the world border, I was always well-aware that I couldn't go beyond that. Doug Lombardi posted:Coyotes can't get into the NCRCF and Black Mountain because of their mighty fences. And the deathclaws are surrounded by huge lime stone blocks. There are two ways out, one being north of Sloan, which is already infested with deathclaws and the other being the back of the quarry which leads to a high level area anyway. So when the player uses either path he's either ready or about to load his game over. Death by Cranes fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 21:46
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Death by Cranes posted:Ahhh come on, monsters tend to stay within their area. You don't see scorpions from hidden valley run around inside black mountain or coyotes hiking it to NCRCF. I've fast-traveled to Vault 19 before and spotted a Deathclaw from the quarry waiting for me right outside. It was practically standing on top of the vault door, and the quarry is about 75 yards away. You know what's not between the quarry and Vault 19? An invisible wall.
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Oct 7, 2011 21:46
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Tewratomeh posted:I've fast-traveled to Vault 19 before and spotted a Deathclaw from the quarry waiting for me right outside. It was practically standing on top of the vault door, and the quarry is about 75 yards away. You know what's not between the quarry and Vault 19? An invisible wall. That whole area is high(er) level with cazadors, Vipers in combat armor and so on. The deathclaws live in the surrounding hills. You should be able to kill them. Otherwise you're just exploring too fast   The way I see it; we have the red area with giant mantis, Viper gang (w. Combat armor, plasma granades), deathclaws. Need .44 rounds - high damage. Orange area with deathclaws. Same deal as above. Purple area with fiends, ants and powder gangers. .357 magnum/Ratslayer and go for the head. Death by Cranes fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 21:51
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Zorak posted:Where's the best place to sell my gold? The Gunrunners Store outside the strip has a robot vendor with roughly 8000 caps, I generally haul a gold bar over to him whenever I'm low on caps and make the exchange. Dead Money's companions were great, it's a shame you don't really get to spend much time with all of them together. That's something I would have liked to have seen in New Vegas in general, more companion banter - it's one of the things the first Dragon Age and Mass Effect did quite well, in my opinion.
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Oct 7, 2011 21:55
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Death by Cranes posted:
Now drop it and go to the Camp Searchlight Fire Station and get the Knock Knock because its special move can launch Deathclaws to air and kill them from fall damage.
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Oct 7, 2011 22:03
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Galewolf posted:Now drop it and go to the Camp Searchlight Fire Station and get the Knock Knock because its special move can launch Deathclaws to air and kill them from fall damage. ... starting up FOMM.. going to searchlight..
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Oct 7, 2011 22:17
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Galewolf posted:Now drop it and go to the Camp Searchlight Fire Station and get the Knock Knock because its special move can launch Deathclaws to air and kill them from fall damage. As an enormous fan of the Fire Axe, this is very relevant to my interests. Wish I had known this 150 game hours ago!
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Oct 7, 2011 22:25
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Galewolf posted:Now drop it and go to the Camp Searchlight Fire Station and get the Knock Knock because its special move can launch Deathclaws to air and kill them from fall damage. Is that restricted to Knock-Knock? I could swear that the same special melee attack was across regular Fire Axes and the Proton Axes as well. (Of course, I could be wrong - I'm so 'roided-out that I don't even VATS with Knock-Knock, I just get close and start swinging.)
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Oct 7, 2011 23:03
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I somehow found the fire axe soon after leaving Goodsprings and then hacked my way through a lot of the early game. Those Super Mutants at Black Mountain didn't know what hit 'em.  (it was a fire axe)
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Oct 7, 2011 23:04
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