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Scrubber posted:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fenris is an immortal and nigh invulnerable half demon. Even without the witch channeling that spell on him he's still on the same level as eaters, if not more powerful. Remember, not all eaters are granted the same powers. Eaters are sort of boring though.
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Oct 8, 2011 07:57
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Bummey posted:Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fenris is an immortal and nigh invulnerable half demon. Even without the witch channeling that spell on him he's still on the same level as eaters, if not more powerful. Remember, not all eaters are granted the same powers. Yeah, Fenris the Feared walked away from being attacked by half a dozen Named Men simultaneously in Book 2. The various Eaters in Book 3 didn't fare so well.
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Oct 8, 2011 09:47
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Well until the "god" dude in the south makes more. Really though the Eaters make sense in the setting. It's basically a showdown between the two remaining powers winner take all. Ordinary people are supposed to be pawns. They aren't aware of that ideally, but they don't matter. Whichever one of the powers wins will just remake the world in their image anyway. Hopefully Monza and the kingdom that gets created as a result will be enough to tip the balance back in humanity's favor. With any luck Eaters won't be viewpoint characters anymore though. Because it is boring to read about people being killed in the blink of an eye.
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Oct 8, 2011 12:21
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You apologize to Miles Teg right the gently caress now mister!
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Oct 8, 2011 19:23
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Bummey posted:Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fenris is an immortal and nigh invulnerable half demon. Even without the witch channeling that spell on him he's still on the same level as eaters, if not more powerful. Remember, not all eaters are granted the same powers. I disagree. Despite the fact that Fenris is a half demon who fought alongside freakin' Glustrod, the majority of the Eaters are generally still presented as more powerful/dangerous, which is the problem. Fenris isn't really nigh invulnerable. Half his body is nigh invulnerable. The other half is covered by armor, but can otherwise be harmed normally. People generally don't live long enough to figure out his gimmick and have time to counter it, but if it was widely known, there wouldn't be anything stopping a bunch of normal soldiers from killing him by smashing his armored side with maces or other weapons that are effective against armor. They could also hack off his tattooed limbs and not give him time to re-attach them. Fenris did take on half a dozen named men and survive, but for most of the fight they were not all focusing on him, he only killed one, despite extended fighting and he eventually got driven off. (He did also kill some grunts earlier in the fight, before the named men started focusing on him.) On the other hand, the Eaters in book three were coming in piecemeal and taking on a tight pack of something like 20 of the Union's most elite royal bodyguards, wearing full plate armor, led by Bremer Dan Gorst. The eaters kept charging in alone and slaughtering 5+ guards in seconds, before being dispatched by weight of numbers. Fenris was powerful, but he still seemed to have limits. It took him several blows to kill Threetrees and the Bloody Nine was actually stronger than him once he lost his magical support. Eaters on the other hand routinely kill guys in full plate armor with one punch and move far faster than Fenris is capable of. It is notable that when Logen confronts a single eater he gets defeated almost instantly, but the injury is non fatal due to his plot armor. Fenris would lose to an Eater unless he managed to get lucky and kill it very quickly while it was figuring out his gimmick. Once it realized that it could attack his armored side, he'd die, since the Eaters are much quicker and can ignore armor with their fists. Pretend I put an emoticon here relating to how nerdy this post is. Scrubber fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Oct 8, 2011 |
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Oct 8, 2011 21:25
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And despite all of that Ferro is hunting the eaters now, which says quite a bit about her capabilities.
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Oct 8, 2011 22:51
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Scrubber posted:I disagree. Despite the fact that Fenris is a half demon who fought alongside freakin' Glustrod, the majority of the Eaters are generally still presented as more powerful/dangerous, which is the problem. First of all, Fenris' weakness is not known. No one lives long enough to see Fenris as anything other than an invulnerable juggernaut, that's His Thing. Saying "Well if people knew how to kill him, he'd be easy to kill!" is just stupid and dumb and you're missing the point. Second, Fenris wasn't driven off by Threetrees and company, he was called to withdraw. Fenris was acting as an instrument of fear in that case. Had his orders been to kill everyone, he could have done it. Third, not every eater is granted the same powers. Not every eater is Shenkt. Shenkt is merely an extreme example of what eaters can be. Bummey fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Oct 8, 2011 |
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Oct 8, 2011 23:36
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I think Joe's restraint in using Shenkt shows that he'll manage to write these very powerful dudes in interesting ways. It's hard, not impossible, and when pulled off properly, it's the definition of awesome. 
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Oct 8, 2011 23:53
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Bummey posted:not every eater is granted the same powers. Not every eater is Shenkt. Shenkt is merely an extreme example of what eaters can be. This, even other eaters are terrified of him. Also Ferro and the Magi destroy the Eaters so I hope we will see even more of a decrease in their number in the up coming books. I hope we get more POV from Eaters... "Where did these arrows come from" as 5 arrows come from the darkness to pin cushion him then Ferro pops out of no where and beheads him.
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Oct 8, 2011 23:56
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Bummey posted:
Yeah, their power levels vary a lot. Glokta and his guys took down one with relative simplicity, most of the hundred who attacked were cannon fodder for Bayaz to deal with. Shenkt, Mamun, Ishri and probably Yori Sulfur are the only ones we have seen that seem to be truly powerful.
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Oct 9, 2011 21:50
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah, their power levels vary a lot. Glokta and his guys took down one with relative simplicity, most of the hundred who attacked were cannon fodder for Bayaz to deal with. Shenkt, Mamun, Ishri and probably Yori Sulfur are the only ones we have seen that seem to be truly powerful. Shenkt and Yoru were both able to break free from the Prophet's influence, too. It's not just loyalty that keeps eaters in line. They're immensely powerful (though in vastly different ways) eaters, but they're certainly not the norm.
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Oct 9, 2011 23:56
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Bummey posted:Shenkt and Yoru were both able to break free from the Prophet's influence, too. It's not just loyalty that keeps eaters in line. They're immensely powerful (though in vastly different ways) eaters, but they're certainly not the norm. Neither of them trained with The Prophet. Yoru trained as a Magi under Bayaz and mentions that he graduated and is a Magi now just not one of the original 12. Shenkt used to work for Bayaz but that relationship was never clarified expect that he no longer calls Bayaz his master.
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Oct 10, 2011 00:10
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Bummey posted:Shenkt and Yoru were both able to break free from the Prophet's influence, too. It's not just loyalty that keeps eaters in line. They're immensely powerful (though in vastly different ways) eaters, but they're certainly not the norm. No that doesn't sound right. The huge majority of Eaters were trained by Khalul, thus were loyal to him. Shenkt and Yoru were both trained by Bayaz, hence we're supposed to be shocked that they're Eaters. This may be another part of the power difference equation, Khalul may train his followers to be more disposable Eater shocktroops, while Bayaz invests more time in training his apprentices in eating AND magic.
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Oct 10, 2011 00:10
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I'm still pretty sure it was mentioned that the eaters are beholden to Khalul and reliant on him for... something, but I was totally wrong about Yoru and Shenkt.  Oops.
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Oct 10, 2011 06:26
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Bayaz doesn't seem to hold them under any sort of thrall either, so I think Shenkt didn't as much break free from him as opposed to just getting into a huge disagreement with him. Yoru is Bayaz's man through and through - but I think again that it is loyalty and reverence as opposed to some sort of a magical control. Anyone think Bayaz might have more apprentices hiding somewhere? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Oct 10, 2011 |
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Oct 10, 2011 15:04
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(BSC spoilers)DarkCrawler posted:Bayaz doesn't seem to hold them under any sort of thrall either, so I think Shenkt didn't as much break free from him as opposed to just getting into a huge disagreement with him I think it's implied that the 'disagreement' stems from the whole being forced to become an Eater in the first place thing.
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Oct 10, 2011 16:29
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:(BSC spoilers) I read the books a while ago but when was that discussed?
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Oct 10, 2011 17:47
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Once I finished BSC, I realized that Cosca was the only character to get his revenge and be satisfied by it. He reclaimed the Thousand Swords from Monza, he stopped drinking to gently caress with Morveer (which even saved his life), and so on and so forth. Meanwhile, Shivers gets his loving eye burned out and becomes Black Dow's dog, Monza kills Orso but is broken and empty, and Morveer is dead as poo poo. Cosca, the only one to seek revenge in a way that wasn't "Welp, time for all these people to die!" comes out on top. I thought it was a cool contrast.
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Oct 12, 2011 04:19
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Wait, didn't Cosca Totally murder those three captains out of revenge?
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Oct 12, 2011 14:44
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There's a scene in BSC where Cosca talks to Monza about how she cares about everyone but acts like she doesn't while he doesn't care about anyone and acts like he does; Abercrombie thinks that that's the kind of person you have to be to for revenge to be fulfilling, and I'm not sure he's wrong there.
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Oct 12, 2011 15:36
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DarkCrawler posted:Wait, didn't Cosca Totally murder those three captains out of revenge? Didn't they try to kill him out of revenge, then he killed them in return?
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Oct 13, 2011 16:28
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They never actually tried to kill him . They just betrayed him by supporting Monza for the captains seat.
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Oct 13, 2011 16:43
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Clinton1011 posted:They never actually tried to kill him . They just betrayed him by supporting Monza for the captains seat. I meant during the events in BSC. They definitely tries to kill him then. Like the guy in the tunnel or the one that pulled a crossbow before dying to Morveer's poison.
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Oct 13, 2011 19:48
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I meant during the events in BSC. They definitely tries to kill him then. Like the guy in the tunnel or the one that pulled a crossbow before dying to Morveer's poison. BSC Not really, they acted out of self-defense for the most part. Cosca killed Andiche and made up an absurd excuse. Sesaria only tried to kill him after Cosca literally hit him in the head. Victus knew he was next, hence him pulling a crossbow on Cosca. In fact he pulled the crossbow when Cosca was going for his knife to throw at him under the pretext that he had to use the bathroom.
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Oct 14, 2011 12:19
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I'm just finishing "Last Argument of Kings" (have been avoiding the thread for fear of spoilers) and while I've loved the series so far, the one thing that's driving me crazy is how Glokta et al see fake-Morovia with Luthar in the city after they've already seen Morovia dead and it doesn't get mentioned. Even if Glokta didn't give a gently caress it seems like it would've at least registered in his internal monologue. Am I missing something here? Sorry if I'm horribly misspelling the names, I'm listening on Audible so I've never actually seen them written out.
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Oct 28, 2011 13:12
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Kekekela posted:I'm just finishing "Last Argument of Kings" (have been avoiding the thread for fear of spoilers) and while I've loved the series so far, the one thing that's driving me crazy is how Glokta et al see fake-Morovia with Luthar in the city after they've already seen Morovia dead and it doesn't get mentioned. Even if Glokta didn't give a gently caress it seems like it would've at least registered in his internal monologue. Am I missing something here? It did come up in his internal monologue. Glokta saw the false Marovia, and started to think ""Wait, what the fu–" just as the Gurkish set off their gigantic underground bomb. Then, for obvious reasons, things sorts went to poo poo, everyone got seperated, and shortly therafter Bayaz and Glokta had their "meeting". So Glokta put 2 and 2 together, and figured out that Marovia 2.0 was Bayaz's pet eater in play.
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Oct 30, 2011 04:54
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Fly Molo posted:It did come up in his internal monologue. Glokta saw the false Marovia, and started to think ""Wait, what the fu–" just as the Gurkish set off their gigantic underground bomb. Ah ok, guess I missed that. Good to know, seemed like a glaring and atypical omission.
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Oct 30, 2011 05:00
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I was originally planning to wait to join into the thread until I'd finished all of the Abercrombie books out currently (or at least finished the First Law trilogy), but I'm halfway through Before They are Hanged and I just read one of the most awesome chapters ever where West throws stupid loving prince Ladisla off of a cliff and I wanted to at least express my enthusiasm with others who would know why I was so psyched. Goddamn that was awesome. I am so happy right now. Furious. So great. I am loving this series. For the majority of the first book I wasn't sure how I felt. It was well written and tense. And yet at the same time I felt like absolutely nothing was happening. Then in about the final third of the book the plot threads started finally coming together and I really liked it and decided to keep going. I'm glad I did. The second book has been loving phenomenal. Logen is my favorite, but also his (former) band of Northmen. And Jezal pulled a Jaime Lannister and actually made me start to like him. Never thought that would happen.
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Nov 4, 2011 03:08
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UncleMonkey posted:I am loving this series. For the majority of the first book I wasn't sure how I felt. It was well written and tense. And yet at the same time I felt like absolutely nothing was happening. Then in about the final third of the book the plot threads started finally coming together and I really liked it and decided to keep going. I'm glad I did. The second book has been loving phenomenal.
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Nov 4, 2011 03:12
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Read The Blade Itself and enjoyed it, was looking forward to reading the rest of the First Law books on my kindle, but goddamn what is wrong with the kindle formatting? I held off on this first book for a long time because in the sample it had blank lines between every paragraph, every dialogue shift, which was too jarring to read. A week ago I re-downloaded a sample to this first book and the formatting was fixed (for the most part: there's still more random blank lines than there should be but at least not everywhere), bought it and read it. Downloaded a sample of Before They Are Hanged, and this one hasn't had its formatting fixed. Blank lines everywhere cutting up the page. The second ebook I ever bought was one of the Malazan fantasy series side books, Return of the Crimson Guard, which had all the text shifted to the right and so many errors and random >'s // and J's for I's; it was horrible, and I've since checked a sample first before every purchase of an ebook (This one was fixed apparently, but I can't just delete it off my kindle and redownload the updated ebook; I'd get the old file, I'd have to call amazon customer service and have them fiddle with it). Does the poor formatting not bother the other kindle owners here? Am I just nitpicking? Where are my shoes???? 
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Nov 5, 2011 18:16
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Nope, it bothers the living crap out of me, and is a big part of the reason I always look on iBooks first. I've bought all of WoT, every book Sanderson's ever written, the two Rothfuss books that are out, the first couple Malazan, and a few one-offs for a total of 25 books, and have yet to find a serious issue with formatting. The worst I've seen out of all of those is the occasional spurious hyphen and very occasional oddly-spelled word. IIRC, the Abercrombie books do get better as you go along on the Kindle. At least, I don't remember being bothered by it... actually I just looked, and all the books are fine once you hit LAoK.
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Nov 5, 2011 20:40
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I remember having some problems with Before They Are Hanged on Kindle, but none of the other ones. Lots of random >> and misspellings.
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Nov 7, 2011 03:53
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I'm new to Ambercrombie, but I've heard good things. Gonna start with The Heroes, since it is available on Kindle for $1.99 for the rest of the day.
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Nov 15, 2011 02:31
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ConfusedUs posted:I'm new to Ambercrombie, but I've heard good things. A word of warning here: while The Heroes is described as a standalone book in the OP, it's really the fifth in the series that begins with The Blade Itself. You can probably read The Heroes without having read Abercrombie's other books, but it will make a lot more sense of you approach the series chronologically. Reading The Heroes first will also give away some of the big twists from prior books.
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Nov 15, 2011 02:45
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Juaguocio posted:A word of warning here: while The Heroes is described as a standalone book in the OP, it's really the fifth in the series that begins with The Blade Itself. You can probably read The Heroes without having read Abercrombie's other books, but it will make a lot more sense of you approach the series chronologically. Reading The Heroes first will also give away some of the big twists from prior books. I'm okay with all of that.
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Nov 15, 2011 03:01
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It will actually be a very interesting experience for you if you read the two standalone books before the main trilogy. While some storylines will be spoiled by knowing who is dead and who is alive in the later books, others may actually be enhanced, as you will be learning the "back story" of characters you've already met. Does anyone know if Abercrombie has addressed the idea of reading his books in an order other than the published one?
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Nov 15, 2011 06:01
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I read them 5-1-2-3- (about 2/3 of the way through 4 now) I'm planning on going back for a reread of Heroes once I'm done with Best Served Cold as I'm sure I'll have a completely different perspective on the main characters and also some of the references will have much more import. If I had it to over again I'd definitely read them in order, just because of Heroes letting you know who is going to live/die in the trilogy. That said, it wasn't that big of a deal and Heroes certainly worked well enough as a standalone.
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Nov 15, 2011 06:06
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So I just recently started Last Argument of Kings, and something I'm still wondering about is I still don't get why Bayaz needed Jezal on the quest for retrieve the Seed. I know why he needed Logen and Ferro, just not Jezal. If there is something still to be revealed, that's fine. I'm just wondering if I missed something.
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Nov 21, 2011 00:01
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UncleMonkey posted:So I just recently started Last Argument of Kings, and something I'm still wondering about is I still don't get why Bayaz needed Jezal on the quest for retrieve the Seed. I know why he needed Logen and Ferro, just not Jezal. If there is something still to be revealed, that's fine. I'm just wondering if I missed something.
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Nov 21, 2011 00:03
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Kekekela posted:Its going to be revealed.
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Nov 21, 2011 00:45
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