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Typical stupid nierbo-type questions ahead. How come no one ever goes for a headlock submission like this:  except without having the uke's (?) right arm in. Mainly wondering about going for it in that position but on the ground, not standing up like those guys, so north-south but both guys facing down. I don't know the name of that position, I'm sure someone here can enlighten me. Joe Rogan said once it takes an incredible amount of strength to submit someone like that, but I don't understand why. Why is the arm in so important? Also, he said something along the lines of holding a submission at 50% for a while and then suddenly moving it up to 75% and then move to 100% squeeze. Is there any truth to that? I always just grab that poo poo and go 100%. Is it so that you don't waste energy if you don't have the position or grip perfect? I know I ask real dumb questions sometimes so thanks in advance.
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Oct 10, 2011 15:53
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The North/South Guillotine is what I believe that is called. We've got a purple belt who is very good at it. Personally, I've never really gotten it to work but its a pretty viable choke if you can do it. However, you really can't do it with a guy who is face down outside of extreme circumstances. Hughes choked Almedia out like that but Matt Hughes is a genetic freak and Almedia was already very wobbly and incoherent from getting hit. the increasing pressure thing is more psychological than anything else. If you start 100%, you'll slowly get tired and the pressure will decrease. If you start lower and ramp it up, the pressure will just get tighter and tighter, which makes your opponent wonder how tight this choke will really get, which will have them more likely to tap to what appears to be your exponentially increasing power.
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Oct 10, 2011 16:23
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It's a Schultz Headlock.
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Oct 10, 2011 17:02
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You can get various arm triangles from that position but you probably won't finish them without turning into them. Most people just can't squeeze that hard.
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Oct 10, 2011 17:29
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Xguard86 posted:The North/South Guillotine is what I believe that is called. We've got a purple belt who is very good at it. Personally, I've never really gotten it to work but its a pretty viable choke if you can do it. However, you really can't do it with a guy who is face down outside of extreme circumstances. Hughes choked Almedia out like that but Matt Hughes is a genetic freak and Almedia was already very wobbly and incoherent from getting hit. Edit: Oops, misread that. Yeah you're right it's called the north south guillotine. Nierbo posted:Typical stupid nierbo-type questions ahead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Gmn3YDxJohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtCVsoZjH9I The problem with doing it from that position is that you have to be able to keep him from taking you down with both your hands occupied (which is why you'll mostly see it done when you can put the opponents back against the wall). If he takes you down and gets to sidecontrol your guillotine is gone. Doing it from northsouth in pure grappling is completely viable, but the problem then is that to get your arms in position around his neck you move so far down that you have no weight on his hips and barely any on his upper body, basically you sacrifice positional control for a choke that can be difficult to get unless you're really good at setting it up. Marcelo Garcia goes for them from time to time (as well as a ridiculously cool floating mount guillotine): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkFHJHC58qchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcQtNN8jK10 They're almost always done inverted (guy on bottom facing up, top guy facing down), because if you're opponent is bellydown like that you should be on his back going for a RNC and because you're probably getting to north-south from side-control unless you're breakdancing galvao style on someone in turtle (plus you can use your shoulder and gravity to pressure the throat instead of using arm strength like you'd have to if he's facing the other way). As for ratching up the intensity on chokes that's something I do as well, mainly because I don't want to burn my arms out unless I know there's less than a minute left. If your choke is applied properly you don't need to go full blast to make him go unconscious and if you have a bunch more matches that day your arms will probably not recover in time. Dante fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 10, 2011 |
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Oct 10, 2011 19:23
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Thanks guys. Great replies.
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Oct 10, 2011 21:42
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congrats on the tourney hopper! I'm making my first trip to the gym in 3 months, posting from the bus lol, this gonna hurt!
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Oct 10, 2011 22:19
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Nierbo posted:Typical stupid nierbo-type questions ahead. As for the 50/75/100, some of it is to make sure you're establishing position correctly, some of it psychological, some of it physical. If you have a guy who is mega tough and can just grit his teeth and bare it for 10 seconds, you'll gas your arms out trying. However, if you put on the choke at 50%-75% while establishing position perfectly, then you've got the choke 3/4 finished without really expending any energy. As soon as you ramp it up, you're now using 100% force against his 25% left to resist. I don't know if it makes any sense in writing... it's kind of one of those things you have to feel and have done to you to really understand. When I start chokes slow, establish good position and ramp it up, i find I pretty much never need to use 100% power - even the toughest dudes crumble at 85% or so. I think of it like how a boa constrictor kills things. First you just get them wrapped up, then slowly start to sink it in. You're constricting enough to hold them and cause severe discomfort, but not immediately go out. When they are at the very end of the rope and you've got them completely immobilized - that's when the death squeeze comes, and there is just absolutely no way to resist it. Sounds cheesy, but it totally works. This is really only true with blood chokes, however. Cranks, windpipe chokes, and all other joint locks go on tighter with speed an intensity. That being said, when not at a tournament, you should always put *those* ones on with an even slower ramp so you don't cripple your opponent for life.
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Oct 11, 2011 06:28
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imtheism posted:the arm in is super important because it helps seal off the artery on one side. Think of trying to finish a triangle without having the arm in - it's doable with all the right angles, but you have to be ridiculously strong to pull it off. It's super hard to squeeze tight enough with just your arms to seal off the space - that's why chokes from that position generally finish as guillotines, rather than blood chokes like an anaconda or darce. I've found I can get chokes using the mackenzitine method or even modifying it like kendall grove used to. I have short arms though so it's not always easy but in saying that once it's sunk and I tighten there's no real way someone's going to dig and arm in between mine or slide out. I have trouble getting it secured against the higher level dudes, but guys on my level or lower seem to struggle to find an answer because it doesn't hit like a guillotine or arm triangle would. Also, gently caress people who crank and look for joint locks at top speed in training. People like that are why my elbow clicks.
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Oct 12, 2011 06:19
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OrangeCrush posted:congrats on the tourney hopper! Thanks. A friend of mine also made his first gym trip today in 3 months, due to his work. One thing I was proud of in my gi matches, was I nailed the Xande/flower sweep to mount in all three of my matches. That is definitely my favorite. A buddy of mine got video of most of my matches, I hope to get them from him soon so I can post them, as it was pretty much a blur the entire time. I also thought about filming all or most of my training rolls at my gym, since we always seem to have at least one guy that sits out. Does anyone else film themselves rolling in class? I read a recent article about it on the DSTRYRsg blog and it got me thinking.
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Oct 12, 2011 06:34
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hopper2k posted:
I always learn something when I watch myself rolling. I try to record most of the rolls I do at home. I don't know about recording at the gym though. A lot of people get weird about being filmed, or having people film in their buildings.
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Oct 12, 2011 06:43
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I wouldn't film at the gym if there are any pro-fighters there.
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Oct 13, 2011 01:52
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Who Gotch Ya posted:I always learn something when I watch myself rolling. I try to record most of the rolls I do at home. I don't know about recording at the gym though. A lot of people get weird about being filmed, or having people film in their buildings. There is tape of me out there in my first BJJ class ever. It's ugly, and I wish a camera hadn't been there to record my shame for posterity.
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Oct 13, 2011 05:26
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Neurosis posted:There is tape of me out there in my first BJJ class ever. It's ugly, and I wish a camera hadn't been there to record my shame for posterity.
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Oct 13, 2011 06:48
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Senor P. posted:I know what you mean, on youtube I lost to a flying armbar in 6 seconds in my second competition... At least my name isn't on it. Still extremely embarrassing. I'm on youtube losing to a white belt by a point in an absolute division that combined belts. He outweighed me by 30 lbs so that is my excuse! All good though, I learned a ton from that match!
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Oct 15, 2011 06:47
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Here are two of my gi matches from Grapplers Quest at the UFC Fan Expo two weekends ago. I did not get my third place match on film. I'm in the white gi in each. Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0ZJsQwT2WQ Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpS9l0XrMRM
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Oct 18, 2011 04:05
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Hey Budovideos uploaded the dumb Palhares match that started all the controversy at this year's ADCC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FohRibjEbgI
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Oct 18, 2011 14:46
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Emberrasing footage when you were a newbie? gently caress that, i would love to see how i grappled my first session.
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Oct 18, 2011 14:53
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nemoulette posted:Hey Budovideos uploaded the dumb Palhares match that started all the controversy at this year's ADCC Goddamn Palhares is retarded. That heel hook was disgusting.
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Oct 18, 2011 15:09
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nemoulette posted:Hey Budovideos uploaded the dumb Palhares match that started all the controversy at this year's ADCC Do BJJ guys cut weight for ADCC? If so, how much?
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Oct 18, 2011 15:20
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origami posted:Do BJJ guys cut weight for ADCC? If so, how much? To be frank, other than the dumb (but funny) hug-and-slap-gate this year, the Avellan match was really none other's fault than the ref's.
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Oct 18, 2011 15:23
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Palhares' physique is so weird and unusual
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Oct 18, 2011 15:28
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tesilential posted:Goddamn Palhares is retarded. he's adorable and did nothing wrong there
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Oct 18, 2011 15:31
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fawker posted:Palhares' physique is so weird and unusual He looks pretty short. Anyone know his height?
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Oct 18, 2011 16:57
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Paul Pot posted:he's adorable and did nothing wrong there Except for the part where he stopped when the referee called time and then immediately started cranking again
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Oct 18, 2011 17:06
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How can a man with so much love for his mother have so much hate for knees? 
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Oct 18, 2011 17:15
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hopper2k posted:He looks pretty short. Anyone know his height? He's 5'8. This is also a very lazy post given how easily available this information is.
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Oct 18, 2011 17:22
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Isn't it an automatic DQ to roll out of bounds to escape a submission anyways? Though I guess they were close enough to the edge of the mat that you might consider it as being incidental. Avellan probably knew where he was though.
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Oct 18, 2011 17:27
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colonel_korn posted:Isn't it an automatic DQ to roll out of bounds to escape a submission anyways? Not in ADCC, no.
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Oct 18, 2011 17:37
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colonel_korn posted:Isn't it an automatic DQ to roll out of bounds to escape a submission anyways? Though I guess they were close enough to the edge of the mat that you might consider it as being incidental. Avellan probably knew where he was though. They take away points if you do it more than once or some poo poo. The rules this year were kind of odd compared to most sub grappling competitions.
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Oct 18, 2011 18:57
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fatherdog posted:Except for the part where he stopped when the referee called time and then immediately started cranking again i don't see him stopping. palhares doesn't understand english or gentle touches anyway, so the ref clearly wasn't doing his job
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Oct 18, 2011 18:58
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I'm kinda surprised Avellan voluntarily got back into heelhook position with Palhares of all people. I would have forfeited after the ref told me to get back in position.
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Oct 18, 2011 19:03
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that's pretty much what everybody there thought and said as well
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Oct 18, 2011 19:09
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Also wouldn't be a problem with a mat bigger than a postage stamp
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Oct 18, 2011 19:17
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This is how you handle guys going near/out of bounds during a submission attempt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk0G3NV9xaA
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Oct 19, 2011 14:11
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I've been watching the budovideos coverage of ADCC, and it kinda sucked. I didn't expect much, but half the time they didn't know who was on what mats, or would switch away to shot of a guy getting his hand raised while someone was holding a submission on another mat. I can't wait for the DVDs to come out so we can get better footage.
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Oct 19, 2011 19:17
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mobn posted:I've been watching the budovideos coverage of ADCC, and it kinda sucked. I didn't expect much, but half the time they didn't know who was on what mats, or would switch away to shot of a guy getting his hand raised while someone was holding a submission on another mat. I can't wait for the DVDs to come out so we can get better footage. yeah it was especially bad this year. While I realize it's hard to deal with simultaneous matches surely by this point budovideos can make sure that at least the commentators can see the score. Commentary in general was atrocious this time, half the time they were doing just play-by-play and the other time babbling and joking and distracting themselves from the actual matches. I guess Flannery kept Williams concentrated or something.
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Oct 20, 2011 01:05
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The worst was when they'd say something like "Oh, and over on mat 4 somebody won by guillotine or something", cut over to show the guy getting his hand raised, and when you come back to the match they were showing it's either over or someone got reversed.
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Oct 20, 2011 02:18
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mobn posted:The worst was when they'd say something like "Oh, and over on mat 4 somebody won by guillotine or something", cut over to show the guy getting his hand raised, and when you come back to the match they were showing it's either over or someone got reversed. To be fair it can be hard to keep track of if/where your own friends are competing sometimes. I don't think the event organizers are really keeping these guys too up to date on who's fighting when and where. I think they're just sitting at a table and watching. I didn't watch the ADCC stream this year but that's the vibe I got from past years and other tournament streams they've done.
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Oct 20, 2011 03:44
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mobn posted:The worst was when they'd say something like "Oh, and over on mat 4 somebody won by guillotine or something", cut over to show the guy getting his hand raised, and when you come back to the match they were showing it's either over or someone got reversed. This is pretty much how it is when you go to a regular competition with a decent amount of other people from your group competing.
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Oct 20, 2011 03:47
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