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kimbo305 posted:Iirc, he had a couple years of MT training at that point. He wasted those years. Im sorry.
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Oct 11, 2011 04:34
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HATE MONDAYS posted:He wasted those years. Im sorry. Don't have to apologize to me. He looks more effective in other videos. I'm just trying to find any demonstrations of CMA techniques outside of katas and drills.
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Oct 11, 2011 04:57
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Yeah, that whole post set off a bunch of Bullshido warnings, and that video reinforced them more than resolving them.
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Oct 11, 2011 14:15
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Thoguh posted:Yeah, that whole post set off a bunch of Bullshido warnings, and that video reinforced them more than resolving them. What warnings, specifically? I'm not trying to promote CMA techniques as useful. I was mostly trying to show something other than an old guy in a frog shirt doing them. Both of those guys post on Bullshido. Not saying that absolves them, but they're in agreement with the whole anti-Bullshido mentality.
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Oct 11, 2011 15:52
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kimbo305 posted:What warnings, specifically? I'm not trying to promote CMA techniques as useful. I was mostly trying to show something other than an old guy in a frog shirt doing them. Kumo Jr. posted:
Kumo Jr. posted:It depends on the student. We have a couple guys doing mma, and lots that do bjj/no-gi grappling competitions. Whether or not the wrist locks are legal depends on the promoter of the competitions, but for the local amateurish "Be First" competitions (which showcase both gi and no-gi grappling) we agreed to have no wrist locks because it's too unfair to almost every other local gym (especially mma gyms). Though most especially the "World Martial Arts Hall of Famer" and "Been involved in many (unspecified) dangerous situations" parts, plus the "We can't do our full complement of techniques because that would be unfair" as well as the fact that "MMA" is a term used very loosely by a lot of McDojos. And what MMA event has a 30 second timer for ground work, especially one that isn't just a stand up for no action, but also would stand somebody up from a locked submission? A set number of classes to gain a belt? But I am giving him the benefit of the doubt which is why I asked questions rather than just calling him out. But all those things I bolded are all stuff that makes me think bullshido. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 16:42
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I didn't read that long rear end post, but videos that 'prove' the efficiency of TMAs always pop up and its invariably a way bigger more athletic dude getting into some retarded useless horse stance and then just dropping the smaller untrained guy with a haymaker or schoolboy tossing him, it never has anything to do with TMA techniques. Like I said that big dude would have had an easier time of it if he just bumrushed the small guy with no pretense of technique instead of messing around with dumb kata moves Also the fact that they post on Bullshido doesnt mean much since there are tons of weirdos on Bullshido who are really in love with the idea of disproving TMA except that they also suck at fighting themselves, small white guy in the video seems to be case in point.
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Oct 11, 2011 16:52
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30 seconds for groundwork is basically zero groundwork. You could give up position completely, just refuse to tap to almost any choke, and be just fine. Also, sorry but many of the sub101 videos are very bad. The people pointing out these problems aren't "haters" they're saying "this is fundamentally wrong and you should not do techniques this way". I understand they were blue belts and have probably gotten much better, but they had no business trying to instruct anyone at that time and the complaints are pretty valid.
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Oct 11, 2011 16:56
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Kumo Jr. posted:Hello everyone, believe it or not I just finished reading all 70 pages of this thread before deciding to jump in to the discussion. Although this may be boring to read I think it's only fair that I describe my experience level so that if I make any comments you'll have an idea of whether or not my opinion is worth anything.
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Oct 11, 2011 18:20
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kimbo305 posted:I'm just trying to find any demonstrations of CMA techniques outside of katas and drills. Here's one. It's hilarious. http://youtu.be/XcWEJwXG2nM
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Oct 11, 2011 18:41
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Thoguh posted:Though most especially the "World Martial Arts Hall of Famer" and "Been involved in many (unspecified) dangerous situations" parts, plus the "We can't do our full complement of techniques because that would be unfair" as well as the fact that "MMA" is a term used very loosely by a lot of McDojos. And what MMA event has a 30 second timer for ground work, especially one that isn't just a stand up for no action, but also would stand somebody up from a locked submission? A set number of classes to gain a belt? But I am giving him the benefit of the doubt which is why I asked questions rather than just calling him out. But all those things I bolded are all stuff that makes me think bullshido. I gave you the name Hanshi Darrell LaFrance, so if you don't believe the world martial arts hall of fame statement than look it up. As for "many dangerous situations"... I've been a head doormen of a nightclub for six years... do you think I keep my job by smiling really big? The MMA event was a "So you think you can fight" which airs on the Fight Network, and if you don't believe the 30 second ground timer maximum than look it up. In hindsight I never should've taken that fight because it is a stupid loving rule and without it I feel confident I would've won. There's even a video, but it's on my facebook and I don't want to give away that much of my personal information. Not to mention it was almost five years ago, amateurish and sloppy. As for the set number of classes, it has to do with the commitment and loyalty that you display towards the growth of your entire team. It's a mandate straight from pedro sauer/keith owen, and if you don't believe they have reputable systems than I'm not going to bother arguing with you because you clearly haven't made any effort to check things out for yourself. As for your question about my trainer participating in the first mma competition in our area, here is an excerpt from his gyms website. You can read it yourself on the site if you like go to https://www.islandmma.com > About Us > Instructors > Jason Heit. "Coached by Donny Orr Sr. and Mike Caird Jason quickly tore through the Canadian amateur ranks winning bronze gloves, silver gloves, golden gloves, the diamond belt, the B.C. provincial light-heavyweight title, and the Canadian Light-Heavyweight title by knocking out all his opponents in the 1995 Canadian Nationals. He then went on to represent Canada in the 1995 Pan-American Games and the 1996 AIBA Multi-Nation International Olympic Qualification Tournament. In 1996 he moved to Los Angeles to train under Royce Gracie. After receiving his blue belt from Royce he moved to Duncan where he opened a small gym and began teaching. One of his students from this gym, John Allessio has since gone on to win titles in The King of the Cage, Hawaiian Superbrawl, TKO Challenge, Gladiator Challenge, WEC, and fight in the UFC against Pat Millitech, Diego Sanchez and Thiago Alves. Jason has continued to help train and corner John in his stand up game. In 1997 Jason fought in the first ever sanctioned MMA bout in Canada which he won by KO in the first round. In 1998 while being coached by Stan Peteric, he earned a spot on the Canadian Amateur Kickboxing team and won the Team Canada vs. Team USA Kickboxing North American title by knocking his opponent out in the first round. In 1999 he moved back to Los Angeles to start his pro boxing career. Training at Wild Card boxing by day and working security at night he was recruited to run the security at the famed Whiskey Bar and the The Standard Lounge. It was here he met actor Burt Young (Paulie from Rocky). Burt managed Jason with famed boxing manager Lou Duva. Jason climbed the rankings to the number 3 professional cruiserweight in Canada before retiring from professional boxing after receiving lucrative job offers for close protection work. He retired from boxing in 2002. He was now able to focus on his security career; he left the nightclub industry and began his career in close protection looking after clients Drew Barrymore, David Duchoveny, Nicholas Cage, Russell Simmons and a two year world music tour with Robbie Williams. Jason has since continued his training at Legends MMA under coaches Bas Rutten, Randy Couture, Jason Miller, Karo Parysian, Mac Danzig, Eddie Bravo and Jeremy Williams. 2007, Jason Heit moved back to his hometown to achieve his goal of opening his gym and pass on his knowledge of martial arts." ... And just as a special bonus because you highlighted "capoeira mma" as part of your bullshido argument here's a couple videos to prove to you that capoeira is an underestimated style when paired together with a well-rounded wrestling and submissions game. I believe we'll see capoeira in the ufc in the next couple years because I know three guys that might have a chance to get there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0KfQE2-ZqA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owFfXYcBVYQ So can you please stop questioning/suggesting I might be full of poo poo with everything I say? I came into this thread quite humble and transparent and really didn't expect to be called a liar or a fraud after giving so much extra detail to showcase my background. Xguard86 posted:30 seconds for groundwork is basically zero groundwork. You could give up position completely, just refuse to tap to almost any choke, and be just fine. Grifter posted:Are you the guy that was learning a variant of grappling that was devised independently of BJJ? I seem to remember the story went something like the Kumo guy had basically built a ground fighting system from scratch and then started to get his butt kicked when BJJ gained popularity and came to town. It was actually kind of a tragic story because the system creator seemed to have been genuinely interested in creating a grappling system when one didn't really exist in his area, but then BJJ came around when his system was only half-baked so it was a lot of wasted effort. I don't know anything about that story, but I'm not 'the guy' because I really have nothing to do with the kumo style anymore. It's just a canadian system that is still very popular in Ontario, and there are a few high level grapplers in the system that are still active and winning tournaments. The brown belt that I mentioned training with was the Ontario heavyweight grappling champion for awhile, but I'm not sure if he still holds that title. Kumo Jr. fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 18:50
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gunblade posted:Here's one. It's hilarious. Here is another one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBc71NdAJHA
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Oct 11, 2011 18:54
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HATE MONDAYS posted:Here is another one Say goodnight.flv sure is hilarious, but it's not an example of CMA people sparring. 
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Oct 11, 2011 19:08
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gunblade posted:Say goodnight.flv sure is hilarious, but it's not an example of CMA people sparring. I think he's trying to say that the previous videos show about as much technique as say goodnight.flv KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 19:10
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Can't we all agree that lovely fighters who take themselves and their style super serious are hilarious?
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Oct 11, 2011 19:16
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Kumo Jr. posted:I gave you the name Hanshi Darrell LaFrance, so if you don't believe the world martial arts hall of fame statement than look it up. Oh, I am confident that there is some "Martial Arts Hall of Fame" that he is listed on. I was referring to the fact that there is no such thing as a widely recognized "Martial Arts Hall of Fame" and that making claims like that is directly out of the book of bullshido, as is believing that a claim like that means anything. Kumo Jr. posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0KfQE2-ZqA Yes, as these videos show, Capoeira can be used to beat people who are very, very bad at MMA. quote:So can you please stop questioning/suggesting I might be full of poo poo with everything I say? I came into this thread quite humble and transparent and really didn't expect to be called a liar or a fraud after giving so much extra detail to showcase my background. Nobody is calling you a fraud or a liar. If anything people are just pointing out that it is possible you're been hoodwinked by people who might be. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 19:23
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Thoguh posted:Oh, I am confident that there is some "Martial Arts Hall of Fame" that he is listed on. I was referring to the fact that there is no such thing as a widely recognized "Martial Arts Hall of Fame" and that making claims like that is directly out of the book of bullshido, as is believing that a claim like that means anything. I'm not sure why it matters either way since I don't even train under that system anymore.
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Oct 11, 2011 19:33
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Kumo Jr. posted:You're nitpicking, and I really don't care that much to argue with you. Maybe it means nothing at all, but I'm just passing off the information I was given. If you bothered to type "hanshi darrell la france world martial arts hall of fame" in google you could find out for yourself. I'm sure you've already done that though, which is why rather than arguing against it you're just discrediting the value of the information. Since you seem to be totally missing the point, for shits and giggles I went ahead and googled it. Now, mostly this just brought up the faceboook page of the dojo. However,it also gave me this list of about 50 different Martial Arts Halls of Fame. Luckily for us the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame was one of those listed! Hurray! Now, regrettably his name was not listed. At first that made me sad. But then I saw the disclaimer at the top of the page! World Martial Arts Hall of Fame posted:Please Note: Because of our vast list of inductees, it is not uncommon to misspell or unknowingly leave a name out, and for this we sincerely apologize. If you are a past inductee and your name is not listed below or name is mispelled, please contact this office with name and year of induction and correction will be made promptly. Whew! Good thing this is such a reputable and distinct honor that is totally legit and respected by all Martial Artists worldwide! Thoguh fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 19:58
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Thoguh posted:Since you seem to be totally missing the point, for shits and giggles I went ahead and googled it. Now, mostly this just brought up the faceboook page of the dojo. However,it also gave me this list of about 50 different Martial Arts Halls of Fame. Luckily for us the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame was one of those listed! Hurray! Now, regrettably his name was not listed. At first that made me sad. But then I saw the disclaimer at the top of the page! You're right, I've been duped. All these years I thought I was learning martial arts, and really it was just a sham. Thanks for showing me the light. It makes such a difference in my life to know that you don't respect the style of martial arts I trained under five years ago. ... "Hanshi Darrell LaFrance is the founder of Kumo Jiu Jitsu, is ranked as a 9th degree black belt by the Sokeship Council under the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame and has been involved with martial arts for over 35 years. As the highest ranked grappling instructor in Canada, Hanshi LaFrance has shared his knowledge openly with many clubs, pioneered the first free-style grappling tournaments ever held in Canada, and is the the author of the World Kobudo Federation's tournament grappling rules. Hanshi LaFrance is also in charge of Grappling world wide for the World Kobudo Federation, and is recognized internationally as a leading authority on grappling, having travelled to many different countries around the world teaching his unique style. In 1995, Hanshi LaFrance was voted Instructor of the Year by the Canadian Jiu Jitsu Association, and in 2000 appointed Vice President of the Can Jiu Jitsu Association. As Head Coach and Instructor of the Three Time World Champion Canadian Grappling Team, Hanshi guided the team to gold medals at the 1998 French Convention, the 1999 Quebec Convention, and the WKF Austrian World Cup 2000 without losing a single match. Today, he continues to develop and perfect the art of grappling as well as coach and instruct at his dojo in Bowmanville, Ontario at True Warrior Martial Arts" ... I bet anyone can get a 9th degree black belt though. I'm sure you can order one online and it'd be just as good as his. Kumo Jr. fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 20:17
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Kumo Jr. posted:I bet anyone can get a 9th degree black belt though. I'm sure you can order one online and it'd be just as good as his. If you don't care, why did you spend 5,000 words describing your pedigree and then getting super mad when people pointed out some of the classic signifiers?
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Oct 11, 2011 20:24
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Kumo Jr. posted:I bet anyone can get a 9th degree black belt though. I'm sure you can order one online and it'd be just as good as his. 9th Degree? That'll run you $450.00 You're missing the point though. My point was that there were a huge number of bullshido red flags in your post. And now you are just reinforcing them. He might be a great guy and it might be a totally legit style and dojo that produces great, well rounded martial artists. I am not from the area, so I don't know. Here, I'll propose a simple question for you to show you what I mean: What person or governing body gave him that 9th degree belt? I know you said their name. But from what does that group draw their authority? Thoguh fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 20:29
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HATE MONDAYS posted:Here is another one devastating use of CMA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JWFIFgWk8k
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Oct 11, 2011 20:33
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Blazebro420 posted:If you don't care, why did you spend 5,000 words describing your pedigree and then getting super mad when people pointed out some of the classic signifiers? I haven't gotten super mad, just defensive. I read the entire thread and it's been full of open-minded people having great discussions and being very accepting of each other. I wrote up a brief synopsis of my experiences so far, and I got the exact opposite treatment I expected. Instead of being welcomed into the discussion they've done nothing but bitch about whether guys I've trained with are real martial artists. If I had known that being transparent about my level of experience would induce such a competition of cock-wagging I probably wouldn't have bothered posting at all.
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Oct 11, 2011 20:43
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Kumo Jr. posted:I haven't gotten super mad, just defensive. I read the entire thread and it's been full of open-minded people having great discussions and being very accepting of each other. I wrote up a brief synopsis of my experiences so far, and I got the exact opposite treatment I expected. Instead of being welcomed into the discussion they've done nothing but bitch about whether guys I've trained with are real martial artists. If I had known that being transparent about my level of experience would induce such a competition of cock-wagging I probably wouldn't have bothered posting at all. May be it hasn't been apparent so far in this new iteration of the thread, but very few people here do "traditionnal" martial arts. It's mostly boxing/kickboxing/muay thai/mma/judo/bjj/wrestling. Also, anything ressembling bullshido gets called out very quickly here. I see that as a good thing. I think people are mostly picking on the kumo JJ part of your post because it indeeds seems very bullshido/mac dojo-ish. The part about him creating his own martial art and then giving himself a 9th degree black belt in it doesn't make me trust his stuff, quite the opposite. It's even mentionned in the OP under things to avoid. The rest of your stuff looks cool and I'm sure everyone will enjoy your input in this thread in the future. yay! We have video of Darrell LaFrance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N5xIuK6hdU KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 20:53
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KingColliwog posted:yay! We have video of Darrell LaFrance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N5xIuK6hdU Don't forget his sick collar choke defence! http://youtu.be/Ucg9K97VEkQ
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Oct 11, 2011 21:16
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I was under the impression a lot of posters here cross train in both TMA (or have done a TMA) and a practical MA with live sparring, much like what Kumo does.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:19
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Drewjitsu posted:Don't forget his sick collar choke defence! ok now that's just sad Bangkero posted:I was under the impression a lot of posters here cross train in both TMA (or have done a TMA) and a practical MA with live sparring, much like what Kumo does. Most people have done TMA yes (I've done many before going to judo). I don't think anyone is saying kumo is stupid because he did/does that. It's his defense of the style that is causing replies I think. No one has any problem with someone doing some crazy jumpy flashy martial arts for fun, it's when that person claims that it's legit/effective when it's probably not that people react. If I had time I'd do some TKD, hapkido or kung fu because that all looks fun and I wouldn't mind training in some less than perfect striking MA. Also, that kumo guys is there claiming that he his the highest ranked grappler in canada. \/ he said it more clearly than I did \/ KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 21:20
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KingColliwog posted:May be it hasn't been apparent so far in this new iteration of the thread, but very few people here do "traditionnal" martial arts. It's mostly boxing/kickboxing/muay thai/mma/judo/bjj/wrestling. People encourage newbies looking to do traditional martial arts, but only if they're looking for a workout or something different to running and lifting. If people are looking to grapple/wrestle/fight/spar, there are obvious avenues of training for those, and those methods of instruction don't look like the traditional kata and 1-step drills that predominate mall martial arts schools. gunblade posted:Here's one. It's hilarious. e: everyone watch this. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 21:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJh6LWxnyLs Canada is cool as hell.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:29
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Blazebro420 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJh6LWxnyLs Lori's a friend of a friend, her blog talks about her efforts to hybridize her TMA and BJJ, which sounds cool.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:34
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Blazebro420 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJh6LWxnyLs Congrats, you found a video of me and my girlfriend.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:41
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KingColliwog posted:ok now that's just sad Exactly this. Nothing wrong with doing something for fun, or doing something when you didn't know any better.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:54
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"The Mexican" gave an inspiring show of how to teach new students in the awful and difficult art of "being balanced when you strike" today during a mostly-new-practitioners class. It involved shoving your partner on the ropes and worked in 15 seconds on the test subject, absolutely awesome stuff. Also everyone lighten up!
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Oct 11, 2011 22:13
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"[insert martial art here] will be seen inside the UFC within the next few years!" Its been that way since MMA started. I hope you mean 'capoeira inspired moves' and not capoeira itself. Wrestling is so prevalent, there's a reason a certain stance and base and movement are used.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:04
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Nierbo posted:"[insert martial art here] will be seen inside the UFC within the next few years!" Anderson Silva and Jose Aldo have both been involved with capoeira earlier in their careers. I'm arguing that as a striking style, capoeira involves some angles and techniques that can be surprising to an mma fighter that probably hasn't trained against them before. I've seen capoeira guys sparring with muay thai guys and handling themselves very well, and I don't think their kicks should be underestimated. It's just my opinion, and I do not train capoeira myself. I just think there are evolutions that have occurred in mma over the last few decades, and there will come another striking evolution when the top athletes in the world start to showcase some unusual skill sets supplementing into a game that must already be pretty good to get to that highest level.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:27
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Kumo Jr. posted:Anderson Silva and Jose Aldo have both been involved with capoeira earlier in their careers. I'm arguing that as a striking style, capoeira involves some angles and techniques that can be surprising to an mma fighter that probably hasn't trained against them before. I've seen capoeira guys sparring with muay thai guys and handling themselves very well, and I don't think their kicks should be underestimated. It's just my opinion, and I do not train capoeira myself. I just think there are evolutions that have occurred in mma over the last few decades, and there will come another striking evolution when the top athletes in the world start to showcase some unusual skill sets supplementing into a game that must already be pretty good to get to that highest level. I agree with all of that and its one of the reasons the karate guys are having some success. Its better for the spectators aswell for the fighters to take things from other styles that will be surprising and will improve their game but I shudder to think of the day when someone comes out utilising the ginga against a good wrestler.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:38
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Drewjitsu posted:Don't forget his sick collar choke defence! Ok, Im no BJJ superstar pro, but Im almost 100% sure that wouldnt work on a non-compliant partner. I can't see that working like ever.
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Oct 12, 2011 00:00
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fawker posted:Ok, Im no BJJ superstar pro, but Im almost 100% sure that wouldnt work on a non-compliant partner. I can't see that working like ever. Dude, you're crazy. Why would be on Youtube if it was a bad technique?
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Oct 12, 2011 00:09
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fawker posted:Ok, Im no BJJ superstar pro, but Im almost 100% sure that wouldnt work on a non-compliant partner. I can't see that working like ever. I have to admit there's no way I can defend those videos. I've never met or trained with the guy, but, considering that he's a guy looked up to by some of the better grapplers that I've trained with, I really did expect something more impressive than that. This technique might be useful in a RWSD if your attacker didn't know what he was doing at all, but I agree it would never work against a resisting opponent in a competition.
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Oct 12, 2011 00:11
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Kumo Jr. posted:I have to admit there's no way I can defend those videos. I've never met or trained with the guy, but, considering that he's a guy looked up to by some of the better grapplers that I've trained with, I really did expect something more impressive than that. This technique might be useful in a RWSD if your attacker didn't know what he was doing at all, but I agree it would never work against a resisting opponent in a competition. Don't train to beat white belts, train to beat black belts, right? What's RWSD?
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Oct 12, 2011 00:25
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Drewjitsu posted:Don't train to beat white belts, train to beat black belts, right?
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Oct 12, 2011 00:59
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