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GloomMouse posted:Just finished the book, and I agree with everything Mandragora said. Also, Willikins appears to have been replaced by a completely different person with the same name. I suppose it's a logical progression of Willikins' character, but he was too familiar for a gentleman's gentleman I think. The prose is definitely a weak point, but it was nice seeing Vimes completely out of his element. Was anyone else bothered by the distances covered? It seems like Vimes was traveling waaaay too fast sometimes.
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Oct 15, 2011 16:21
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GloomMouse posted:Just finished the book, and I agree with everything Mandragora said. Also, Willikins appears to have been replaced by a completely different person with the same name. Willikins got more prominence this book but it was consistent with earlier appearences. Would you care to ellaborate?
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Oct 15, 2011 16:39
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He was about 1000x chattier than he was in any of the previous books.
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Oct 15, 2011 19:28
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In previous books his character sort of unfolded gradually; at first Vimes saw him just as a stuffy servant which made him uncomfortable because it emphasized Vimes' own rank (violating his "shakily egalitarian" view of his own place in the world). Then we discover bits and pieces about his background and violent tendencies, until in this book he apparently feels free to just be himself unreservedly. I chose to see it as a mark of how he and Vimes have become actual friends as well as servant/master. On a second read, I find myself "hmm"-ing over some of the goblin bits. I don't know if it's just me projecting, but I find it to have a sort of imperialistic whiff. Just something about the savvy city-fellow having to step in and save the downtrodden aboriginals. "Oh sure we've been likening them to animals but really they are Noble Savages and if we teach them our language and exploit their art it's almost like they're real people." Eh, I'm not terribly coherent and that sounded a little more bitter than I intended. But still. Edit: Also I have a question; how and why exactly did the vial of tears end up in the cigar? I'm assuming it was put there by the person who created it, but I'm not clear on the reason why. A cry for help, a long shot at (weird) revenge, or something that I'm missing? At first I thought the tobacconist must have known it was there, he made such a point about including the cigar. wheatpuppy fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Oct 15, 2011 |
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Oct 15, 2011 20:24
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wheatpuppy posted:In previous books his character sort of unfolded gradually; at first Vimes saw him just as a stuffy servant which made him uncomfortable because it emphasized Vimes' own rank (violating his "shakily egalitarian" view of his own place in the world). Then we discover bits and pieces about his background and violent tendencies, until in this book he apparently feels free to just be himself unreservedly. I chose to see it as a mark of how he and Vimes have become actual friends as well as servant/master. There is a big difference in their relationship between this book and Thud!, certainly. For my part, I think on the 4-year gap between Snuff and Thud!, as well as the events of Thud! itself (more significantly). It wasn't a stretch for me to think that in the intervening time the Master/Butler dynamic became almost a ritualistic thing. Gotta keep up appearances and all that. But between the two of them alone, with everything they have been through, and their sense of shared past... I can buy the more open relationship.
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Oct 15, 2011 20:38
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magimix posted:There is a big difference in their relationship between this book and Thud!, certainly. For my part, I think on the 4-year gap between Snuff and Thud!, as well as the events of Thud! itself (more significantly). It wasn't a stretch for me to think that in the intervening time the Master/Butler dynamic became almost a ritualistic thing. Gotta keep up appearances and all that. But between the two of them alone, with everything they have been through, and their sense of shared past... I can buy the more open relationship. Yeah, it didn't bother me that much. I think that four+ years of constant Vimes will wear even the most gentlemanly down, especially someone with a street background who could actually relate on a few levels. It helped that he's obviously very fond of young Sam and his most threatening side comes out when the kid is endangered in any way. His bits were some of my favorite parts in the book, honestly. Dude is like a cross between Alfred and the Terminator.
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Oct 15, 2011 22:27
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I haven't gotten very far through the book yet, but it's more and more clear that Terry's editor(s) are letting him down at exactly the point when he needs their help most. All of the ideas and all the great verbiage are still there but there are too many awkward constructions and in some cases straight up errors that should have been line-edited out. That's really all there is to it. I'm not disparaging Terry at all, either. Just the other day my graduate writing instructor was telling us about his own experiences getting his work critiqued by his own instructors, people like Joyce Carol Oates and John McPhee, and one of the points he made is that the need to have someone else line-edit and double-check your work is something that never, ever goes away, no matter how good you are. Also, I only realized when I got my copy that this book was going to take Vimes out of AM and away from the rest of the Watch, at least for a while. That's a bit of a disappointment to me, relatively speaking, but the countryside setting is fun enough, especially the way Vimes takes to it like a cat to water. And yes, I buy into the familiarity between Vimes and Willikins. I don't remember Thud! since it's been longer since I read that than most of the other Watch books, but already in Jingo I could see a sort of less formal relationship developing in the way they interacted, and it's been how many years in-universe since then? Not a problem for me at all, at least not so far.
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Oct 16, 2011 02:46
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In the time between when he was first introduced in Thud! and the release of Snuff, I entered the same profession as A. E. Pessimal, and it's more than a little worrying how suddenly relatable and sympathetic of a character he is now.
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Oct 16, 2011 03:51
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MacGyvers_Mullet posted:In the time between when he was first introduced in Thud! and the release of Snuff, I entered the same profession as A. E. Pessimal, and it's more than a little worrying how suddenly relatable and sympathetic of a character he is now. He has always been one of my faves, despite me being utterly abysmal at accountancy. I like him much more than Moist, for example.
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Oct 16, 2011 04:07
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MacGyvers_Mullet posted:In the time between when he was first introduced in Thud! and the release of Snuff, I entered the same profession as A. E. Pessimal, and it's more than a little worrying how suddenly relatable and sympathetic of a character he is now. Wasn't he the guy sent to check up on "Keel" in Night Watch who ended up joining them by the end, or am I going crazy from all that bat-guano?
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Oct 16, 2011 04:38
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magimix posted:There is a big difference in their relationship between this book and Thud!, certainly. For my part, I think on the 4-year gap between Snuff and Thud!, as well as the events of Thud! itself (more significantly). It wasn't a stretch for me to think that in the intervening time the Master/Butler dynamic became almost a ritualistic thing. Gotta keep up appearances and all that. But between the two of them alone, with everything they have been through, and their sense of shared past... I can buy the more open relationship. I agree with this, up to a point, which is why I still found the book quite enjoyable. Still, in four years, it seems that he went from being an excellent butler with a rough past (that, yes, periodically included deadly knife fights/eaten noses) into a min/maxed level 40 rogue/assassin/shadowdancer. Nilbop posted:Wasn't he the guy sent to check up on "Keel" in Night Watch who ended up joining them by the end, or am I going crazy from all that bat-guano? No, he was the clerk assigned to GloomMouse fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Oct 16, 2011 |
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Oct 16, 2011 05:16
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That bit in Thud were they bring in the old lads and part timers to help with the riot work is one of my favourite moments.
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Oct 16, 2011 05:26
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JerryLee posted:I haven't gotten very far through the book yet, but it's more and more clear that Terry's editor(s) are letting him down at exactly the point when he needs their help most. All of the ideas and all the great verbiage are still there but there are too many awkward constructions and in some cases straight up errors that should have been line-edited out. That's really all there is to it. I really agree with you on this one. There's just too many run-on speeches & sentences, and it's really quite jarring in places. A good editor should have got in there and smoothed things out. I've just finished it. Absolute star of the book was Wilikins, who is gloriously terrifying. Thought it started slow, but clicked into gear after the discovery of the poor goblin girls' body on the hill. Also, the description of how cricket is so incomprehensible to an outsider that the whole universe dies & is reborn in the time it takes to explain the rules is 100% accurate. I've been there. It happened to me.
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Oct 16, 2011 20:14
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This may be a stupid idea, but can't someone just mail his publisher and remind them that they should do a better job of editing? Maybe they just don't realize there's a problem.
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Oct 16, 2011 20:30
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Has anyone ever noticed the interesting career Boggis, head of the thieves guild has had? He was introduced in Wyrd Sisters, as a bit part (he mugs Verence), and then he was involved with the dragon incident as a co-conspirator (the one that got away) and eventually he ended up as chief thief. It would be cool to read that book.
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Oct 17, 2011 01:16
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On a happier note, another thing that is spot on about this book? The footnotes. They're pretty much perfect, I haven't encountered a one so far that was "off." 
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Oct 17, 2011 08:56
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JerryLee posted:On a happier note, another thing that is spot on about this book? The footnotes. They're pretty much perfect, I haven't encountered a one so far that was "off." This is pretty true. Minor Spoilers I particularly enjoyed the footnote claiming that according to ommnians Murder was the third crime after Theft and Indecent Exposure. That's certainly one way to read genesis..
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Oct 17, 2011 18:15
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I'm probably showing my ineptitude with using a Kindle but is there a way of getting to the footnotes besides jumping to the end of the book and back again to view them every time they show up? One of the nice things about Pratchetts' books are the numerous footnotes at the bottom of pages and i do miss them on the Kindle.
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Oct 17, 2011 18:44
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The DC event was pretty funny, especially when they were recounting visiting the set for Hobbiton in New Zealand and he said that from what he could tell, Hobbits "never took a shite" because there were no bathrooms or outhouses anywhere.
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Oct 17, 2011 19:16
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Just Another Lurker posted:I'm probably showing my ineptitude with using a Kindle but is there a way of getting to the footnotes besides jumping to the end of the book and back again to view them every time they show up? Use the arrow keys to navigate the footnote number, click it and press "Back" once you've read the footnote. A little cumbersome, but quick and workable. Saves you having to set bookmarks and go back and forth like a maniac. Just finished Snuff myself and I thought it was very enjoyable. A little heavy-handed with the morals, but that's the way Vimes works, so in context it felt right. Willikins and Young Sam were the stars of the book though. Pterry has really captured the essence of a six year old boy on a mission.
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Oct 18, 2011 02:05
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Young Sam is six? The Fifth Elephant was just the other day  This fictional child is making me feel old.
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Oct 18, 2011 02:22
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Baggins posted:Use the arrow keys to navigate the footnote number, click it and press "Back" once you've read the footnote. A little cumbersome, but quick and workable. Saves you having to set bookmarks and go back and forth like a maniac. Thanks very much for this. 
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Oct 18, 2011 03:10
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Went to the local chapters to get my copy of Snuff only to realise the canadian release date is november 22nd 
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Oct 18, 2011 04:04
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Nine of Eight posted:Went to the local chapters to get my copy of Snuff only to realise the canadian release date is november 22nd The Kindle version is already available from amazon.ca, though.
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Oct 19, 2011 14:55
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I don't own a kindle, and I'm a paper fetishist. Preordered it anyways, so now I get it delivered to my house on release day.
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Oct 19, 2011 17:06
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Nine of Eight posted:I don't own a kindle, and I'm a paper fetishist. Preordered it anyways, so now I get it delivered to my house on release day. I have to admit that I own a Kindle but I refused to read anymore Pratchett's books on it. Scrolling down and clicking each footnote becomes too tedious and kills the fun in reading it.
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Oct 19, 2011 23:06
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Why does Canada get all the Discworld books a month later than the US does? Do they have to put all of the 'ou's back in or something? I'm dying over here man, I need my Pterry fix.
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Oct 19, 2011 23:23
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YggiDee posted:Why does Canada get all the Discworld books a month later than the US does? Do they have to put all of the 'ou's back in or something? I'm dying over here man, I need my Pterry fix. Canada gets the UK printing. I assume the delay is the time it takes to float them across the Atlantic ocean and then distribute them across the country.
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Oct 20, 2011 02:44
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shadok posted:Canada gets the UK printing. I assume the delay is the time it takes to float them across the Atlantic ocean and then distribute them across the country. It's especially hilarious (or tragic depending on which side you are on) as I got my copy on the 14th and I live in New Zealand. I enjoyed Snuff. I didn't really notice the grammatical problems some others did. The humour has changed a lot since books like Jingo but I suppose it has to, otherwise you're writing the same book over again. Some of Sybil's comments to Vimes and the bit about her breasts during the music performance were a bit jarring. I think part of the issue is that whereas previously you may have had 15 references to/parodies of pop culture in a short period, some of them just passing comments you now get fewer more indepth ones. Like the reasonably long bit about cricket being nonsense to explain. It's probably a lot longer than it needs to be to get the point across. Overall: Better than UA, not as good as Thud!, too different from classics like Small Gods and Jingo to compare.
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Oct 20, 2011 08:38
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After starting Reaper Man again, I want a new Death book. 
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Oct 20, 2011 11:13
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Stiffie-Hellman posted:It's especially hilarious (or tragic depending on which side you are on) as I got my copy on the 14th and I live in New Zealand. I had it delivered to Australia and I still haven't gotten my copy yet. drat your kiwi magic!
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Oct 20, 2011 11:14
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I have to say that I enjoyed Snuff but I was perplexed by the changed Willikins. He seemed closer to Pepe from Unseen Academicals than the Willikins we've known before, who still spoke and carried himself like Jeeves even when acting like Rambo.Thud posted:Purity was standing in the hall, alongside Willikins. She was holding a trophy Klatchian sword, without much conviction. The butler had augmented his weaponry with a couple of meat cleavers, which he hefted with a certain worring expertise. In my head, I hear that in Stephen Fry's voice. He didn't talk like that in Snuff.
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Oct 20, 2011 15:47
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Screw it, I'm importing the US edition. It'll get here tomorrow.
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Oct 20, 2011 17:03
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YggiDee posted:Screw it, I'm importing the US edition. It'll get here tomorrow. No the right way of spelling  !
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Oct 20, 2011 17:10
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I wasn't going to get it until December. In that time I can fix all the spelling myself.
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Oct 20, 2011 17:18
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I got the US edition the day after the official release, UK edition is out in a month, and I live in germany. So it doesn't seem to be correlated with the distance involved.
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Oct 21, 2011 21:06
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So John C. Wright is a tremendous wanker, thinks Terry is a pawn of Satan and wants to punch him in the comments of the post. He got the Brain-Eater, hard. And he's not the one with the Alzheimer's, either.
Megazver fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 00:38
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Megazver posted:So John C. Wright is a tremendous wanker, thinks Terry is a pawn of Satan and wants to punch him in the comments of the post. He got the Brain-Eater, hard. And he's not the one with the Alzheimer's, either. His Wiki page shows him with a beard, a black hat and glasses.... i wonder exactly who he is immitating?  Unfortunately i tried reading that link and found out that while he writes in english it is  in the extreme.
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Oct 22, 2011 01:07
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Why even give that bigoted, racist piece of poo poo the time of day?
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Oct 22, 2011 01:28
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Megazver posted:So John C. Wright is a tremendous wanker, thinks Terry is a pawn of Satan and wants to punch him in the comments of the post. He got the Brain-Eater, hard. And he's not the one with the Alzheimer's, either. How the gently caress can you hate Terry? seriously, this man must be one of the few human beings with cold blood running through their veins.
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Oct 22, 2011 07:10
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